Emirates...is this for real!!???
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Yet their solution, is to hire more cadets. They advertised just today.
There was an experienced ex-cadet in this one.
And an experienced ex-cadet planted a wheels up 777 in Dubai Airport, not so long ago.
For a pilot to be a 777 FO in the US, he or she has already flown lots of General Aviation, lots of Regional, then more Regional as Captain, then lots of medium range as FO.
Compare the amount of exposure, to that of a Emirati cadet, with 3 landings a month, ILS to ILS fully automated.
Then add the company punitive culture.
And the best is, they stay on denial.
I am positive Emirates will have more of these.
I just hope they get as lucky as with all the other 'incidents', because imagine what could had happened with any of the few last ones.
And the ones that don't come to light.
There was an experienced ex-cadet in this one.
And an experienced ex-cadet planted a wheels up 777 in Dubai Airport, not so long ago.
For a pilot to be a 777 FO in the US, he or she has already flown lots of General Aviation, lots of Regional, then more Regional as Captain, then lots of medium range as FO.
Compare the amount of exposure, to that of a Emirati cadet, with 3 landings a month, ILS to ILS fully automated.
Then add the company punitive culture.
And the best is, they stay on denial.
I am positive Emirates will have more of these.
I just hope they get as lucky as with all the other 'incidents', because imagine what could had happened with any of the few last ones.
And the ones that don't come to light.
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Embarrassing… Even after seeing this short vid on the internet.
The altitude checks AND the FMA are checked AND read ALOUD during preflight In Emirates. ( the call is “toga toga, lnav vnav armed” mostly, definately NOT “toga alt” ). The call is one of the (many) good and (to me) vital things in EK’s procedures. I have a lot negative to say about EK BUT their’ SOPs are well thought out and they are how they are for a very good reason.
SOPs were not followed, and when the shit really hit the fan, it looks like they all had no real clue what to do….
All very embarrassing to say the least and a very very close call it seems to have been….
The altitude checks AND the FMA are checked AND read ALOUD during preflight In Emirates. ( the call is “toga toga, lnav vnav armed” mostly, definately NOT “toga alt” ). The call is one of the (many) good and (to me) vital things in EK’s procedures. I have a lot negative to say about EK BUT their’ SOPs are well thought out and they are how they are for a very good reason.
SOPs were not followed, and when the shit really hit the fan, it looks like they all had no real clue what to do….
All very embarrassing to say the least and a very very close call it seems to have been….
Last edited by 5star; 3rd Jan 2022 at 08:53. Reason: typo
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Yet their solution, is to hire more cadets. They advertised just today.
There was an experienced ex-cadet in this one.
And an experienced ex-cadet planted a wheels up 777 in Dubai Airport, not so long ago.
For a pilot to be a 777 FO in the US, he or she has already flown lots of General Aviation, lots of Regional, then more Regional as Captain, then lots of medium range as FO.
Compare the amount of exposure, to that of a Emirati cadet, with 3 landings a month, ILS to ILS fully automated.
Then add the company punitive culture.
And the best is, they stay on denial.
I am positive Emirates will have more of these.
I just hope they get as lucky as with all the other 'incidents', because imagine what could had happened with any of the few last ones.
And the ones that don't come to light.
There was an experienced ex-cadet in this one.
And an experienced ex-cadet planted a wheels up 777 in Dubai Airport, not so long ago.
For a pilot to be a 777 FO in the US, he or she has already flown lots of General Aviation, lots of Regional, then more Regional as Captain, then lots of medium range as FO.
Compare the amount of exposure, to that of a Emirati cadet, with 3 landings a month, ILS to ILS fully automated.
Then add the company punitive culture.
And the best is, they stay on denial.
I am positive Emirates will have more of these.
I just hope they get as lucky as with all the other 'incidents', because imagine what could had happened with any of the few last ones.
And the ones that don't come to light.
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I concur. And going back further, such as the Melbourne take-off near-disaster, one can see that their luck continues to hold.
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FBW 390
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Besides the obvious errors why does the MCP not have a minimum default value of 1,000ft AGL programmed into the system when ground/flight switch is in ground mode?
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Because they didn't assume that anyone would ever fail to rotate and climb away, you know - flying the airplane?
Rudeboy
fair point but in the quest to not pay for proper pilot training and standards « Automation is god « which they have sadly got wrong and continue to do so.
‘Even the Fokker 100 which had all time auto throttle and alpha protection didn’t as two of SR crews found out doing split ar@e visuals into Nice.
(open descent mode contrary to what the book stated). They were woken with the death rattle.
fair point but in the quest to not pay for proper pilot training and standards « Automation is god « which they have sadly got wrong and continue to do so.
‘Even the Fokker 100 which had all time auto throttle and alpha protection didn’t as two of SR crews found out doing split ar@e visuals into Nice.
(open descent mode contrary to what the book stated). They were woken with the death rattle.
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One possible scenario...
I'd say none of the flight crew were staring at 0000ft
I'd say none of the flight crew were staring at 0000ft
Right. I couldn't open the video. My guess is, they did set 4000 on the MCP.(its really hard for all the 4 to miss !) FMA was pitch mode was in ALT mode. They forgot to recycle the FDs and or Prev crew did not turn of the FDs. ALT mode on FMA is easy to be missed at that time. And after take off she blindly kept on following FD. This is possible right ?
Last edited by 777JockeyIN; 7th Jan 2022 at 03:28.
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The main issue here is not automation at all. Automation is not followed during a takeoff roll OR during rotation. Pitching to a specified number of degrees(15°?), and then the automation “comes” to you. Clearly she never even got close this number.
As with several others, I am not surprised in the least.
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I will go in between you and flyTBFL time-wise with 3 more ( USA, Russia, and France)
The main issue here is not automation at all. Automation is not followed during a takeoff roll OR during rotation. Pitching to a specified number of degrees(15°?), and then the automation “comes” to you. Clearly she never even got close this number.
As with several others, I am not surprised in the least.
The main issue here is not automation at all. Automation is not followed during a takeoff roll OR during rotation. Pitching to a specified number of degrees(15°?), and then the automation “comes” to you. Clearly she never even got close this number.
As with several others, I am not surprised in the least.
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Right. I couldn't open the video. My guess is, they did set 4000 on the MCP.(its really hard for all the 4 to miss !) FMA was pitch mode was in ALT mode. They forgot to recycle the FDs and or Prev crew did not turn of the FDs. ALT mode on FMA is easy to be missed at that time. And after take off she blindly kept on following FD. This is possible right ?
despite F/d indications, as none of us were actually there we can only speculate at the moment . This sort of thing is not exclusive to EK
I would suggest .
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If 4000 or even 1000 was set in the MCP, and ALT was annunciated on the FMA, the application of TOGA prior to 80kts would have cleared the ALT FMA annunciation.
perhaps TOGA wasn't applied prior to 80kts?
I'm truly baffled as to what went wrong as by my count there are 5 separate occasions to identify and confirm the MCP setting, more than that every SID out of sh1tsville has a stop altitude of 4000'
perhaps TOGA wasn't applied prior to 80kts?
I'm truly baffled as to what went wrong as by my count there are 5 separate occasions to identify and confirm the MCP setting, more than that every SID out of sh1tsville has a stop altitude of 4000'
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I seem to remember there being a tech bulletin about the MCP alt setting changing "by itself", which was later attributed to static electricity discharge when someone touched the MCP.
Now this captain being a lady she's probably not wearing standard issue antistatic shoes.
Now this captain being a lady she's probably not wearing standard issue antistatic shoes.
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What does it matter what was set at the MCP after the last flight? An aircraft may undergo maintenance between flights, and switches/values left in any position. This is what checklists and procedures are for.
Four pilots in the cockpit and they let this aircraft accelerate to more than 200 kts while still on ground, then nearly crashed it by not doing the most basic manouvre every pilot in the world does every time he or she takes to the sky.
What will be the next handling session in EK sims? Learning to rotate without the use of flight directors? Or installation of an auto rotate system?
Four pilots in the cockpit and they let this aircraft accelerate to more than 200 kts while still on ground, then nearly crashed it by not doing the most basic manouvre every pilot in the world does every time he or she takes to the sky.
What will be the next handling session in EK sims? Learning to rotate without the use of flight directors? Or installation of an auto rotate system?
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What does it matter what was set at the MCP after the last flight? An aircraft may undergo maintenance between flights, and switches/values left in any position. This is what checklists and procedures are for.
Four pilots in the cockpit and they let this aircraft accelerate to more than 200 kts while still on ground, then nearly crashed it by not doing the most basic manouvre every pilot in the world does every time he or she takes to the sky.
What will be the next handling session in EK sims? Learning to rotate without the use of flight directors? Or installation of an auto rotate system?
Four pilots in the cockpit and they let this aircraft accelerate to more than 200 kts while still on ground, then nearly crashed it by not doing the most basic manouvre every pilot in the world does every time he or she takes to the sky.
What will be the next handling session in EK sims? Learning to rotate without the use of flight directors? Or installation of an auto rotate system?
Getting rid of a Habibi for example, cant be good for ones career advancement, particularly after years of rectal pineapple insertion therapy at the hands of EK management.
