Milan-JFK assault
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Wiz,
Don't worry about Tommy boy ..his two buddies passed the DEC interview here a few years ago...although Tommy says he did not interview - however I suspect otherwise - as with all the most vitriolic posters from afar - this is how they manage their failure. he certainly looked at it. Hardly the principled behavior of someone who talks so passionately about the union and scabs, not to mention the company he keeps.
The reason the US legacies survive is that roughly half the domestic US legacy flying is done by their regional affiliates...shocking conditions for their junior pilots who effectively subsidize their fellow ALPA brothers (?) in mainline. If Tommy could spend as much energy on that issue rather than coming here with his "what if" anger....well I digress.
I started in the regional world and I'll never forget that first day of orientation when a bright and optimistic manager came in to give us the ra ra chat.
I'm paraphrasing to best of my recollection how he finished up.
"Guys finally I'm happy to let you know that you are all eligible for food stamps, the Federal program that provides free food for those on the poverty line...it's a great resource for you, especially the family guys....we would ..ahem...eh ..just ask that you don't pick up your vouchers in uniform"
Nervous laughter!
BTW, tommy that 757 FO (or any rank for that matter) does not receive the following;
Chauffeur driven to and from work.
Cash per diem in local currency on hotel check-in
First $90,000 tax free
Tax free benefit under 2555 of free housing (most are perfectly nice thank you)
If you do stay in. Co. Housing - all utilities free (water, garbage collection, cooking gas, elec security force in gated comm., gas for BBQ, all maint free, free life guard in comm. Pool - the list goes on)
$55000 housing allowance if opt out...lot of guys will have a $1m+ property paid off by the co. When we leave. TVM. Anyone i know is on the 15 yr mort. Plan
Private education support - a lot of us have our kids in excellent schools without having to buy a house in a high tax district in the US to get a good edu.
Work for a carrier that has never furloughed in almost 28 yrs...not to mention never had seniority downgrades due to contraction. How many pilots has DAL furloughed in thy last 28 years?
Interest free car loan
A wide body upgrade in anything less than a coupe of decAdes - I know that's all going to change ...assuming the US doesn't have another recession - happens on average every 7 years.
Loads more I'm sure, but I'm off to Trader Vic's for some cocktails at half off thanks to EPC (or is it Patinum)
A final point on "principles" AA & BA have finally succeeded in enlisting Qatar into their seamless strategic alliance "Oneworld"... DAL got Saudia in Skyteam.
Way to take the moral high ground.
f.
Don't worry about Tommy boy ..his two buddies passed the DEC interview here a few years ago...although Tommy says he did not interview - however I suspect otherwise - as with all the most vitriolic posters from afar - this is how they manage their failure. he certainly looked at it. Hardly the principled behavior of someone who talks so passionately about the union and scabs, not to mention the company he keeps.
The reason the US legacies survive is that roughly half the domestic US legacy flying is done by their regional affiliates...shocking conditions for their junior pilots who effectively subsidize their fellow ALPA brothers (?) in mainline. If Tommy could spend as much energy on that issue rather than coming here with his "what if" anger....well I digress.
I started in the regional world and I'll never forget that first day of orientation when a bright and optimistic manager came in to give us the ra ra chat.
I'm paraphrasing to best of my recollection how he finished up.
"Guys finally I'm happy to let you know that you are all eligible for food stamps, the Federal program that provides free food for those on the poverty line...it's a great resource for you, especially the family guys....we would ..ahem...eh ..just ask that you don't pick up your vouchers in uniform"
Nervous laughter!
BTW, tommy that 757 FO (or any rank for that matter) does not receive the following;
Chauffeur driven to and from work.
Cash per diem in local currency on hotel check-in
First $90,000 tax free
Tax free benefit under 2555 of free housing (most are perfectly nice thank you)
If you do stay in. Co. Housing - all utilities free (water, garbage collection, cooking gas, elec security force in gated comm., gas for BBQ, all maint free, free life guard in comm. Pool - the list goes on)
$55000 housing allowance if opt out...lot of guys will have a $1m+ property paid off by the co. When we leave. TVM. Anyone i know is on the 15 yr mort. Plan
Private education support - a lot of us have our kids in excellent schools without having to buy a house in a high tax district in the US to get a good edu.
Work for a carrier that has never furloughed in almost 28 yrs...not to mention never had seniority downgrades due to contraction. How many pilots has DAL furloughed in thy last 28 years?
Interest free car loan
A wide body upgrade in anything less than a coupe of decAdes - I know that's all going to change ...assuming the US doesn't have another recession - happens on average every 7 years.
Loads more I'm sure, but I'm off to Trader Vic's for some cocktails at half off thanks to EPC (or is it Patinum)
A final point on "principles" AA & BA have finally succeeded in enlisting Qatar into their seamless strategic alliance "Oneworld"... DAL got Saudia in Skyteam.
Way to take the moral high ground.
f.
Last edited by fliion; 21st Oct 2013 at 19:43.
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This discussion has descended into a rather petty comparison of pilot pay. Like Wizofox, I'm tempted to say that this is all irrelevant in the much bigger discussion of open skies competition. This is probably true.
However, Tomcat has stuck his flag in the ground
However, Tomcat has stuck his flag in the ground
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Tommy boy,
The most amusing thing about your post is that you write it boasting of stick hrs vs credit hours, pay received etc.....and think it's sustainable. 1 1/2 time, double time, substition pay etc etc etc.....rort the system while it's there because it isn't going to last. Can you seriously read your post - with an impartial mind - and think that all those things are going to last? If so you remind me again of why this career is dead. Because so many pilots are simply dumbasses.
Good Ol' CH11 huh?
I worked for a Major, with almost identical conditions as those you sprout. I wasn't foolish enough to think that they can, or will last. The only pilots who continue with those conditions are the guys retiring within the next 5 years.
How is your pension fund going?
The most amusing thing about your post is that you write it boasting of stick hrs vs credit hours, pay received etc.....and think it's sustainable. 1 1/2 time, double time, substition pay etc etc etc.....rort the system while it's there because it isn't going to last. Can you seriously read your post - with an impartial mind - and think that all those things are going to last? If so you remind me again of why this career is dead. Because so many pilots are simply dumbasses.
Good Ol' CH11 huh?
I worked for a Major, with almost identical conditions as those you sprout. I wasn't foolish enough to think that they can, or will last. The only pilots who continue with those conditions are the guys retiring within the next 5 years.
How is your pension fund going?
Last edited by ramius315; 22nd Oct 2013 at 04:36.
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It's silly, childish and indicative of the lowest common denominator but sadly commonplace here to accuse anyone who criticises EK of having failed the selection procedure.
Two other silly but common and misleading arguments regularly posted hereabouts are:
- Living and working here is tax free.
- Pilot salaries in the west are one of the most high-impact cost components for airline operations.
Anyone buying into either of those needs his head read.
But there are some rabid posters of imperial position who are feverishly defending their lifestyle choices and will see through any shade of tint you tell them to. Any who can be bothered searching will likely find them defending the profit share situation a few months ago too.
The conditions here are supposed to offset the cost of losing lifestyle benefits at home. But living indoors or inside the world's NNNest shopping malls for six months of the year seems to be enough for some.
Two other silly but common and misleading arguments regularly posted hereabouts are:
- Living and working here is tax free.
- Pilot salaries in the west are one of the most high-impact cost components for airline operations.
Anyone buying into either of those needs his head read.
But there are some rabid posters of imperial position who are feverishly defending their lifestyle choices and will see through any shade of tint you tell them to. Any who can be bothered searching will likely find them defending the profit share situation a few months ago too.
The conditions here are supposed to offset the cost of losing lifestyle benefits at home. But living indoors or inside the world's NNNest shopping malls for six months of the year seems to be enough for some.
Bunk Pilot,
For what it's worth, I don't think New Tom Cat failed EK selection, but his conduct here has hardly been conducive to civility, so as far as lowest common denominators, I hardly think he soars above others posting here.
No one, least of all I, minimise the limitations of Dubai. It suits some more than others, but I venture very few would choose to live here over a similar situation in a Western Country. Don't worry, we all read Flight from the back first and keep an eye on our options.
For me, the priorities are job security and my kids education, and, as of now, there is no better situation available TO ME- so we make the most of where we are and actually manage to enjoy life and the opportunities presented to us by being here.
But, as I said, all this is beside the point.
Read the thread title.
Tommy is suggesting EK should not be allowed to compete on the Milan JFK route because it might effect the gravy train he is so vocal in lording over us- because he get's paid a shed-load, everyone else needs to keep out of his way.
What makes it a stunningly hypocritical position is that I can assure you from private communications that, in any other matter, Tommy and indeed most highly paid Americans are Tea-Party boosting, Obama Hating, Welfare despising Republicans. If a Pakistani Gardner will work for Tom for $5/hr while his current Mexican charges 6, guess who'll be mowing his expansive lawn the next day!!!
BUT when it comes to HIS pay and conditions, it's all comrades together to gouge the greedy corporate swine for all they're worth!!!
Of course, he should ALSO be campaigning to raise the abysmal pay of pilots flying medium jets with "Delta" on the tail but receiving a pittance because they happen to work for a regional.
Thing is, if they were paid what they were worth, Tommy's airline would go so screamingly broke even Chapter 11 wouldn't save it, and he might have to go and join Spirit on the end of the Union mandated seniority list.
SO WE can't undercut Toms conditions because it might effect his lifestyle.
The regionals MUST undercut others conditions, or else it might effect Tommy's life style.
Do you begin to see a pattern of hypocrisy and entitlement there?
For what it's worth, I don't think New Tom Cat failed EK selection, but his conduct here has hardly been conducive to civility, so as far as lowest common denominators, I hardly think he soars above others posting here.
No one, least of all I, minimise the limitations of Dubai. It suits some more than others, but I venture very few would choose to live here over a similar situation in a Western Country. Don't worry, we all read Flight from the back first and keep an eye on our options.
For me, the priorities are job security and my kids education, and, as of now, there is no better situation available TO ME- so we make the most of where we are and actually manage to enjoy life and the opportunities presented to us by being here.
But, as I said, all this is beside the point.
Read the thread title.
Tommy is suggesting EK should not be allowed to compete on the Milan JFK route because it might effect the gravy train he is so vocal in lording over us- because he get's paid a shed-load, everyone else needs to keep out of his way.
What makes it a stunningly hypocritical position is that I can assure you from private communications that, in any other matter, Tommy and indeed most highly paid Americans are Tea-Party boosting, Obama Hating, Welfare despising Republicans. If a Pakistani Gardner will work for Tom for $5/hr while his current Mexican charges 6, guess who'll be mowing his expansive lawn the next day!!!
BUT when it comes to HIS pay and conditions, it's all comrades together to gouge the greedy corporate swine for all they're worth!!!
Of course, he should ALSO be campaigning to raise the abysmal pay of pilots flying medium jets with "Delta" on the tail but receiving a pittance because they happen to work for a regional.
Thing is, if they were paid what they were worth, Tommy's airline would go so screamingly broke even Chapter 11 wouldn't save it, and he might have to go and join Spirit on the end of the Union mandated seniority list.
SO WE can't undercut Toms conditions because it might effect his lifestyle.
The regionals MUST undercut others conditions, or else it might effect Tommy's life style.
Do you begin to see a pattern of hypocrisy and entitlement there?
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Pretty sure what tomcat quoted was without the DC fund and 401(k) which as of the first of the year will be 16%. To the one who brought up the pension childish remark, only Fedex and Ups have traditional DC pensions any longer. The rest are very similar to EK's but with higher contributions and a vastly greater selection of investment vehicles.
And why won't it last? With the soft pay built into the swapa contract just about every pilot there I know credits over 100 hours, and most are around 110/month, and fly on average 83 hours/month. It's been that way for as long as I can remember and LUV is one of if not the most profitable airlines in history. Friend of mine's W2 from 2012 was $156.7k as a 7th year FO while flying 804 hours. Plus close to $15k into his 401(k). Yes he pays taxes but I think paying taxes in any country with real laws, history, seasons and not stuck in the largest collection self absorbed, vain people who walk around with a undeserved sense of accomplishment is well worth it.
And why won't it last? With the soft pay built into the swapa contract just about every pilot there I know credits over 100 hours, and most are around 110/month, and fly on average 83 hours/month. It's been that way for as long as I can remember and LUV is one of if not the most profitable airlines in history. Friend of mine's W2 from 2012 was $156.7k as a 7th year FO while flying 804 hours. Plus close to $15k into his 401(k). Yes he pays taxes but I think paying taxes in any country with real laws, history, seasons and not stuck in the largest collection self absorbed, vain people who walk around with a undeserved sense of accomplishment is well worth it.
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As a pilot who has worked for both a US major and Emirates I am here to tell you that the two airlines are not even in the same league. Emirates has a lot to live up to and we all know it will never get there.
The pay believe it or not is comparable but Emirates is a little lower. However when you include eveything working for a US carrier is far better. The quality of life, working conditions, treatment and overall experience leaves Emirates in the rear view mirror.
As an American saying the salary in the sand is tax free is comletely false, 100%. I am fairly accurate in my accounting and I paid almost $40,000 last year, yes that is US dollars. I don't get to deduct anything while living overseas as I could if I lived in the states so there is a strong case that I actually pay more taxes living in Dubai then I would living in the states.
I am working far more hours in crazier times than I would back home no matter what airplane I was flying, even for a non-major airline.
I am hoping that with the resignations coming up and some pilots in the pool saying No to Emirates that maybe things will change here. Do you think I am realistic or am I on drugs?
The pay believe it or not is comparable but Emirates is a little lower. However when you include eveything working for a US carrier is far better. The quality of life, working conditions, treatment and overall experience leaves Emirates in the rear view mirror.
As an American saying the salary in the sand is tax free is comletely false, 100%. I am fairly accurate in my accounting and I paid almost $40,000 last year, yes that is US dollars. I don't get to deduct anything while living overseas as I could if I lived in the states so there is a strong case that I actually pay more taxes living in Dubai then I would living in the states.
I am working far more hours in crazier times than I would back home no matter what airplane I was flying, even for a non-major airline.
I am hoping that with the resignations coming up and some pilots in the pool saying No to Emirates that maybe things will change here. Do you think I am realistic or am I on drugs?
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AC,
Good post. You are being realistic.
You have done both. Your complaints are my complaints....and justified.
f.
Wiz post 94 - spot on.
Good post. You are being realistic.
You have done both. Your complaints are my complaints....and justified.
f.
Wiz post 94 - spot on.
Last edited by fliion; 22nd Oct 2013 at 08:42.
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Originally Posted by Alconguin Crusader
As an American saying the salary in the sand is tax free is comletely false, 100%
Likeitis and AC,
Point is, NO-ONE is saying EK has the best pay or the best lifestyle. There's no way I would have left my "Major Airline" job in Aus to come here-and I'm sorry, AC, but I think your decision to do so was foolish- but, unfortunately like a lot of others, IT left ME.
What it IS (or at least was) is a chance for someone mid-career to pick up and have some semblance of a career and a family life that commuting and contract work doesn't offer.
But, likeitis, if there is no problem sustaining the pay and conditions at US majors, there should be no problem with them competing against Emirates, right??
Your Government charges you tax AC- Sorry about that, but that's not Emirates fault and should have factored into your thinking when coming here.
Point is, NO-ONE is saying EK has the best pay or the best lifestyle. There's no way I would have left my "Major Airline" job in Aus to come here-and I'm sorry, AC, but I think your decision to do so was foolish- but, unfortunately like a lot of others, IT left ME.
What it IS (or at least was) is a chance for someone mid-career to pick up and have some semblance of a career and a family life that commuting and contract work doesn't offer.
But, likeitis, if there is no problem sustaining the pay and conditions at US majors, there should be no problem with them competing against Emirates, right??
Your Government charges you tax AC- Sorry about that, but that's not Emirates fault and should have factored into your thinking when coming here.
short flights long nights
Have a look over on Fragrant Harbour. There is a thread under Future CX bases, that there is a rumour that ALPA is going to sue all foreign airlines operating into the USA.
