DAE Flight Academy: Students' feedback please!
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- Reduces YOUR risk of not being able to cope with intensive training, which may subsequently result in you failing, or not gaining employment post-training thus putting you into financial debt.
- Reduces risk to the FTO. On integrated courses of training, there is little room and few resources available to accommodate students who fall behind or need extra training because they aren't making the mark.
- Reduces risk to the airlines. Airlines who feed off the supply of new pilots from FTOs need some form of guarantee that they can expect new recruits to possess skill-sets and attributes that are sought after by the airline. Allot of airlines today will only consider FTOs have have pre-enrollment assessments in place.
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If you're in, the FTO takes the money and deliver the course (this is the deal)
The FTO doesn't guarantee you that you'll be authorized to attend the exams at the end of the course, screened or not.
SFLY, I don't quite understand why your throwing a sissy fit over assessments. You'll be assessed, challenged, poked & prod all the way through your flight training which continues through into commercial service. Get used to it!
There's a good article in CAT magazine about the necessity of aptitude and skill assessments. You can read it here
Mike.Park,
Your Post #60 is an excellent summary of why many FTOs may not want a particular student to train with them! As you say, most of the major FTOs now use such a screening process as explained in the article cited in your Post #63.
Alas, erikN, a student is simply not doing their FTO any favours at all by getting a weak 2nd time pass after flying 30% over the minimum hours simply because they can pay for that luxury. To the FTO, the profit derived from a failing student is far less than the cost to their reputation, in the eyes of both the airlines and future potential good students, through reduced 1st time pass rates which (rightly or wrongly) is a key benchmark used by many people (and airlines) when assessing the quality of an FTO. You may not like the idea – but that’s the way it is!
In addition, a weak student who will probably not make the grade is actually taking up a valuable training slot/resources which could be better utilised to train a “natural” pilot through to an fATPL. Later on, the same “weak” pilot (now with a bare pass fATPL), if finally taken on by an airline, will probably struggle with the conversion and line training, which causes the airline additional headaches (and costs!), something which reflects badly on the FTO in the eyes of the airlines’ Head of Training. Even a failed Sim assessment by an airline prior to any formal conversion training costs them time and money!
Of course, it goes without saying that the GFT and IR produce a minimum standard. However, and most importantly, in Flight Safety terms, if there are people who can achieve better than the “minimum” standard, and do so with ease, then they are the people who should be nurtured by the Aviation Industry, thus ensuring Pax and Cargo gets delivered safely by the best possible crews!
It is a fact of life that, the number of $$$’s in a persons bank account has absolutely no bearing whatsoever to the natural flying ability of the pilot! I guess, if someone does not want to invest a bit up front to check that they will not be risking the $1,000s they will be spending on their course, that is up to them. But, at the end of the day, an FTO does not want to waste their time and reputation on a weak student – no matter how rich they are. And, I for one, only want to fly with the best when the chips are down and my life depends on my buddy sat next to me on the flight deck, or on the two guys/gals up front if I am pax!
Call me picky – but best pilot gets my vote every time, not the richest!
Cheers, H 'n' H
Mods Just an idea, but as this thread seems to be heading off topic now, but is of general interest, would it be better transferred into the mainstream "Training" forum? I just came across this by chance while browsing!
Your Post #60 is an excellent summary of why many FTOs may not want a particular student to train with them! As you say, most of the major FTOs now use such a screening process as explained in the article cited in your Post #63.
Alas, erikN, a student is simply not doing their FTO any favours at all by getting a weak 2nd time pass after flying 30% over the minimum hours simply because they can pay for that luxury. To the FTO, the profit derived from a failing student is far less than the cost to their reputation, in the eyes of both the airlines and future potential good students, through reduced 1st time pass rates which (rightly or wrongly) is a key benchmark used by many people (and airlines) when assessing the quality of an FTO. You may not like the idea – but that’s the way it is!
In addition, a weak student who will probably not make the grade is actually taking up a valuable training slot/resources which could be better utilised to train a “natural” pilot through to an fATPL. Later on, the same “weak” pilot (now with a bare pass fATPL), if finally taken on by an airline, will probably struggle with the conversion and line training, which causes the airline additional headaches (and costs!), something which reflects badly on the FTO in the eyes of the airlines’ Head of Training. Even a failed Sim assessment by an airline prior to any formal conversion training costs them time and money!
Of course, it goes without saying that the GFT and IR produce a minimum standard. However, and most importantly, in Flight Safety terms, if there are people who can achieve better than the “minimum” standard, and do so with ease, then they are the people who should be nurtured by the Aviation Industry, thus ensuring Pax and Cargo gets delivered safely by the best possible crews!
It is a fact of life that, the number of $$$’s in a persons bank account has absolutely no bearing whatsoever to the natural flying ability of the pilot! I guess, if someone does not want to invest a bit up front to check that they will not be risking the $1,000s they will be spending on their course, that is up to them. But, at the end of the day, an FTO does not want to waste their time and reputation on a weak student – no matter how rich they are. And, I for one, only want to fly with the best when the chips are down and my life depends on my buddy sat next to me on the flight deck, or on the two guys/gals up front if I am pax!
Call me picky – but best pilot gets my vote every time, not the richest!
Cheers, H 'n' H
Mods Just an idea, but as this thread seems to be heading off topic now, but is of general interest, would it be better transferred into the mainstream "Training" forum? I just came across this by chance while browsing!
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This is not going off topic, we're talking about DAE's screening process which to me is similar to many other. As for getting used to being screened I think I already did my time thank you 
I'm not criticizing this academy at all as the main point is the quality of the delivered training and not the screening process. You can believe in any screening reason you want, these are all up to the academy and not matching any official requirement. FTO's failure rate is determine on the actual exams failure and do not include students which are not attending the exams. You can be screened 10 times, go through the whole NASA selection process, if at the end of the course the FTO thinks you might fail, you will not get the FTO certificate which will enable you to go to the exams. This is how FTOs are keeping good records, and that is AFTER you pay. What you don't get in my point is that I'm not trying to say FTOs are good or bad. Some might screen people for good reasons, some not: there is no standard for that and after all as long as there is no medical objection I don't see any reason why a student couldn't pay for a volume of training, even if some might consider him as stupid.
I'm just trying to explain to the younger public that they should keep in mind that they are in a commercial process where they are the customers who are paying for a service. There is nothing worse than a young guy working hard for his training and who is not allowed to attend the exam just because the FTO thinks he could compromise their stats. FTO screenings are NOT job interviews.
I'm not criticizing this academy at all as the main point is the quality of the delivered training and not the screening process. You can believe in any screening reason you want, these are all up to the academy and not matching any official requirement. FTO's failure rate is determine on the actual exams failure and do not include students which are not attending the exams. You can be screened 10 times, go through the whole NASA selection process, if at the end of the course the FTO thinks you might fail, you will not get the FTO certificate which will enable you to go to the exams. This is how FTOs are keeping good records, and that is AFTER you pay. What you don't get in my point is that I'm not trying to say FTOs are good or bad. Some might screen people for good reasons, some not: there is no standard for that and after all as long as there is no medical objection I don't see any reason why a student couldn't pay for a volume of training, even if some might consider him as stupid.
I'm just trying to explain to the younger public that they should keep in mind that they are in a commercial process where they are the customers who are paying for a service. There is nothing worse than a young guy working hard for his training and who is not allowed to attend the exam just because the FTO thinks he could compromise their stats. FTO screenings are NOT job interviews.
Hiya S.F.L.Y., I understand a bit better now what you are trying to achieve regarding the screening issue – pointing out that they are not a mandatory legal requirement. While most screening processes are based on tried and tested standards, I agree some are perhaps less well “tried and tested” – I can think of one for an Air Taxi operator which was well intentioned but a bit strange to put it mildly when I was told about it! Mike.Park can take the hit about how much screening you have personally endured! 
I can’t comment on this particular FTOs quality as I don’t know them. As I said, I stumbled across this thread while surfing of a rainy UK evening with little on TV, but I did think that the topic of Screening is often a source of debate here in the UK. In that more generic guise, I felt that the subject deserves much wider publicity through the mainstream Training forums which is where this topic would reach a much wider audience. Perhaps a Thread split would be more appropriate as the overall question regarding DAE posed by SilveR5 is a valid one and which many prospective students may find useful. Just an idea......!
I must admit, from your initial posts, I did get the impression that, not directed specifically at DAE but at all FTO’s, you were suggesting that Screening was simply a way for FTO’s to make a quick buck and the process served very little use outside that. Your aim of explaining such screening is entirely laudable (and worthy of wider dissemination) but I would venture that the reasons for screening from any FTOs point of view go much deeper than initially meets the eye, and potential students should be aware of that. While I agree that published Pass Rates do not include those not presented for Test, they often do include the percentage of 1st Time passes – one reason for an FTO to ensure only the best students fill the available slots.
Many FTOs do not want weak students who do eventually pass (I doubt many students would spend $1,000s and simply walk away from the Course) to be associated with them at Airline interviews and further on during their airline training. Even the fact they may complete their training elsewhere can be seen as a “black mark” against the original FTO. I can guess where the potential FO will pin the blame when asked at Interview why they switched!!! I would venture that the phrase “I was such a poor student that the FTO would not issue a 170A (the UK tick required before a student can present himself/herself for Test)” will not be top of the list of excuses used!
As I said in my last post, the additional financial profit to be made from a weak student simply will not outweigh the negative impact on the credibility of the FTO. After all "bad news always sticks; good news is always forgotten" when it comes to reputations!
I agree potential students should be made fully aware of why any FTO may want to screen potential students and not accept them – no matter how much money the potential student has! Am I paranoid? Well, apart from the fact that I know that “they are all out to get me”
I don’t think so! It’s just that I’ve seen enough of the training system as a Student and as an Instructor to know just how much FTOs prize their reputation – certainly here in the UK. Hence the Screening! I guess the real question is why should the student pay? That, alas, seems to be the accepted norm. Anyway, think I understand where you are coming from a bit better now. 
Cheers, H 'n' H
I can’t comment on this particular FTOs quality as I don’t know them. As I said, I stumbled across this thread while surfing of a rainy UK evening with little on TV, but I did think that the topic of Screening is often a source of debate here in the UK. In that more generic guise, I felt that the subject deserves much wider publicity through the mainstream Training forums which is where this topic would reach a much wider audience. Perhaps a Thread split would be more appropriate as the overall question regarding DAE posed by SilveR5 is a valid one and which many prospective students may find useful. Just an idea......!
I must admit, from your initial posts, I did get the impression that, not directed specifically at DAE but at all FTO’s, you were suggesting that Screening was simply a way for FTO’s to make a quick buck and the process served very little use outside that. Your aim of explaining such screening is entirely laudable (and worthy of wider dissemination) but I would venture that the reasons for screening from any FTOs point of view go much deeper than initially meets the eye, and potential students should be aware of that. While I agree that published Pass Rates do not include those not presented for Test, they often do include the percentage of 1st Time passes – one reason for an FTO to ensure only the best students fill the available slots.
Many FTOs do not want weak students who do eventually pass (I doubt many students would spend $1,000s and simply walk away from the Course) to be associated with them at Airline interviews and further on during their airline training. Even the fact they may complete their training elsewhere can be seen as a “black mark” against the original FTO. I can guess where the potential FO will pin the blame when asked at Interview why they switched!!! I would venture that the phrase “I was such a poor student that the FTO would not issue a 170A (the UK tick required before a student can present himself/herself for Test)” will not be top of the list of excuses used!
As I said in my last post, the additional financial profit to be made from a weak student simply will not outweigh the negative impact on the credibility of the FTO. After all "bad news always sticks; good news is always forgotten" when it comes to reputations!I agree potential students should be made fully aware of why any FTO may want to screen potential students and not accept them – no matter how much money the potential student has! Am I paranoid? Well, apart from the fact that I know that “they are all out to get me”
I don’t think so! It’s just that I’ve seen enough of the training system as a Student and as an Instructor to know just how much FTOs prize their reputation – certainly here in the UK. Hence the Screening! I guess the real question is why should the student pay? That, alas, seems to be the accepted norm. Anyway, think I understand where you are coming from a bit better now. Cheers, H 'n' H
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Hi muzcontractor
Yeah I've heard about the Citation...and I think it's a better option than Eclipse 500 anyway..
all the best to your brother
Yeah I've heard about the Citation...and I think it's a better option than Eclipse 500 anyway..
all the best to your brother
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muzcontractor
Since you have mentioned it..I've got some questions here
1) Where would cadets fly to during their training missions on the jet? I've heard they will fly to intra-gulf cities, India and Turkey too.
2) Regarding the job placement offers right after successfully attaining the licence, are there any disclosed names of employers or airline companies of which cadets will take advantage in recruitment?
By the way, at which stage is your brother now of his training? Any delays so far?
Thanks buddy
Since you have mentioned it..I've got some questions here
1) Where would cadets fly to during their training missions on the jet? I've heard they will fly to intra-gulf cities, India and Turkey too.
2) Regarding the job placement offers right after successfully attaining the licence, are there any disclosed names of employers or airline companies of which cadets will take advantage in recruitment?
By the way, at which stage is your brother now of his training? Any delays so far?
Thanks buddy
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ABout the Training
Hi Guys & Guls, I will be starting my flight training on the coming Sunday (22nd of March), I'll do my best to have some time to post some info about the academy & their partnerships with airlines...is there anybody going to attend with me on the coming Sunday??
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Very quiet in DAE RAK
Who made the decision to buy the fleet of trainers, not a very inspired decision. ?
How many students are there in RAK.?
Is DAE actully part of Emirates, even if not brothers, then blood brothers.?
Will they last out the month.?
Is the Citation parked on their stands owned by them, or impounded by the airport.?
Many questions.?
windy
How many students are there in RAK.?
Is DAE actully part of Emirates, even if not brothers, then blood brothers.?
Will they last out the month.?
Is the Citation parked on their stands owned by them, or impounded by the airport.?
Many questions.?
windy
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Some cadets have been accepted for March intake already..and no1 from the previous cadets has completed the training yet...!! I don't think that DAEFA will go busted that simple!! I think it's just a rumour
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About the Rumours & DAEFA
Hi guys, I am a student of DAE FA, where I was supposed to start on the 22nd of March, but due to the Security Clearances & Background checks that must be done for Ab-Intio cadets (New Rule by the GCAA & Police)...the course was delayed till mid April...where I was the only one to get the security clearance till this moment (4 more cadets togo).
About closing DAE FA or any other bad rumours...DAE FA is fine & are reconsidering their purchase of the Eclipse 500, where they are thinking of switching to the Phenom 100 or the Citation Mustang!, & accordingly get the FTDs.
About DAE FA being owned by Emirates...ofcourse not, but HH Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum is the Owner/CEO of DAE & Emirates Plus a couple of other businesses...
About the Cadets & their job placements, the first batch of cadets will be graduating in July this year...this is due to the Economic Crisis that affected the delivery of the Eclipse Jets!, about the job placements, some confidential stuff is going on there (at the Academy) where some airlines had a visit to the Academy & admired it! in addition to other Business jet companies that are looking for pilots to fly their VLJs & other Business Jets, an insider told me that an agreement will be there sometime before July hopefully.
ByTheWay, DAE FA is looking for a Max of 10 cadets per intake & not any cadets...I mean, I went through 3 days of intensive screening & Interviews & finally passed...while the other candidates couldn't make it, only 3 made through out of 7 applicants!, these people are not looking for the money, but looking for the quality!
About closing DAE FA or any other bad rumours...DAE FA is fine & are reconsidering their purchase of the Eclipse 500, where they are thinking of switching to the Phenom 100 or the Citation Mustang!, & accordingly get the FTDs.
About DAE FA being owned by Emirates...ofcourse not, but HH Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum is the Owner/CEO of DAE & Emirates Plus a couple of other businesses...
About the Cadets & their job placements, the first batch of cadets will be graduating in July this year...this is due to the Economic Crisis that affected the delivery of the Eclipse Jets!, about the job placements, some confidential stuff is going on there (at the Academy) where some airlines had a visit to the Academy & admired it! in addition to other Business jet companies that are looking for pilots to fly their VLJs & other Business Jets, an insider told me that an agreement will be there sometime before July hopefully.
ByTheWay, DAE FA is looking for a Max of 10 cadets per intake & not any cadets...I mean, I went through 3 days of intensive screening & Interviews & finally passed...while the other candidates couldn't make it, only 3 made through out of 7 applicants!, these people are not looking for the money, but looking for the quality!