Is Ek This Bad?
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Is Ek This Bad?
My take from the outside.
1) DE Captain is detroying careers
2) Fatigue is a major issue
3) Housing is at best temporary. Can be moved to a new outpost in desert.
4) Pay is not on par with inflation
5) Managers who are anti-pilot
6) New sick policy means potential BK or jail time without ability to pay bills
7) Sub par retirement
Who would want to work there? And why do people stay?
1) DE Captain is detroying careers
2) Fatigue is a major issue
3) Housing is at best temporary. Can be moved to a new outpost in desert.
4) Pay is not on par with inflation
5) Managers who are anti-pilot
6) New sick policy means potential BK or jail time without ability to pay bills
7) Sub par retirement
Who would want to work there? And why do people stay?
They don't !
Well they don't stay forever that is.
When you decide to become an expatriate airline pilot you accept things will not be pefect but aim to achieve a few goals, either financial or professional and focus on that.
Once the goals are achieved or the goal posts moved the guy's ( and girl's now I believe), become disenchanted.
Then its just the age old story of the devil you know !
Well they don't stay forever that is.
When you decide to become an expatriate airline pilot you accept things will not be pefect but aim to achieve a few goals, either financial or professional and focus on that.
Once the goals are achieved or the goal posts moved the guy's ( and girl's now I believe), become disenchanted.
Then its just the age old story of the devil you know !
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Yep pretty well sums it up, however
I would argue the policies associated with DEC's are destroying careers, not the DEC's themselves. I know of few pilots that would turn down a DEC's job, if offered. Shoot the organ grinder not the monkey.
DEC's are destroying careers
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My take from the inside.
1) DE Captain is detroying careers - not destroying, but affecting.
2) Fatigue is a major issue - Absobloodylutely. Deafness an attribute of most managers though.
3) Housing is at best temporary. Can be moved to a new outpost in desert - I have had three company houses and just about to move to my fourth.
4) Pay is not on par with inflation - See answer to 2)
5) Managers who are anti-pilot - Not anti-pilot, just self serving. They are on a different bonus scheme, so why rock the boat?
6) New sick policy means potential BK or jail time without ability to pay bills - Yes, but only if you have debts here that will not be covered by a 50% reduction in your salary, which is pretty much everyone.
7) Sub par retirement - Definately, unless you are lucky enough to be able to put extra by each month.
I read recently in another post a fantastic quote taken from the movie An Inconvenient Truth. I'll type it here in bold and emphasise that TCAS and Ed et al should really be judged by these words, not by their actions.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.
1) DE Captain is detroying careers - not destroying, but affecting.
2) Fatigue is a major issue - Absobloodylutely. Deafness an attribute of most managers though.
3) Housing is at best temporary. Can be moved to a new outpost in desert - I have had three company houses and just about to move to my fourth.
4) Pay is not on par with inflation - See answer to 2)
5) Managers who are anti-pilot - Not anti-pilot, just self serving. They are on a different bonus scheme, so why rock the boat?
6) New sick policy means potential BK or jail time without ability to pay bills - Yes, but only if you have debts here that will not be covered by a 50% reduction in your salary, which is pretty much everyone.
7) Sub par retirement - Definately, unless you are lucky enough to be able to put extra by each month.
I read recently in another post a fantastic quote taken from the movie An Inconvenient Truth. I'll type it here in bold and emphasise that TCAS and Ed et al should really be judged by these words, not by their actions.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.
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Once and for all folks, THERE IS NO NEW SICKNESS POLICY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its the same as its always been. The 14 day allowable sickness clause has always been there, its just never been enforced. (if anyone can give a specific example of where it has, then please share it with us). There are however many examples of guys who have been medium/long term sick who have been well looked after.....
Wrt accomodation, I've been in mine for the last 3 years and counting (hardly the definition of temporary), however I will conceed that a MINORITY of people have been p1ssed around, but the guys I know in DSO seem to like it (not exactly the 'prison camp' in the desert some were labling it as!).
As for the rest of the points, couldn't agree more!
Its the same as its always been. The 14 day allowable sickness clause has always been there, its just never been enforced. (if anyone can give a specific example of where it has, then please share it with us). There are however many examples of guys who have been medium/long term sick who have been well looked after.....
Wrt accomodation, I've been in mine for the last 3 years and counting (hardly the definition of temporary), however I will conceed that a MINORITY of people have been p1ssed around, but the guys I know in DSO seem to like it (not exactly the 'prison camp' in the desert some were labling it as!).
As for the rest of the points, couldn't agree more!
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quote: "There are however many examples of guys who have been medium/long term sick who have been well looked after....."
... well, that can't be the poor guy, who was run over recently by a local reckless driver and broke his leg (badly &multiple!) and is now refused to receive any more than 6 physio-sessions, as the blokes at the EK clinic are refusing to pay the bills furtheron!?
Over the budget they say!!! 
Pretty bad that one - the poor guy is now limping there on his own (no transport paid/ and has to fork out the bucks for the ongoing physio-sessions now out of his own pocket - which is about 250 Dirham each
!!
That's how EK treats You, when You got long-term sick -without your own fault ;-((
... well, that can't be the poor guy, who was run over recently by a local reckless driver and broke his leg (badly &multiple!) and is now refused to receive any more than 6 physio-sessions, as the blokes at the EK clinic are refusing to pay the bills furtheron!?
Over the budget they say!!! Pretty bad that one - the poor guy is now limping there on his own (no transport paid/ and has to fork out the bucks for the ongoing physio-sessions now out of his own pocket - which is about 250 Dirham each
!!That's how EK treats You, when You got long-term sick -without your own fault ;-((
Sorry for the thread creep
Ek Clinic has some very good doctors, but like all EK departments they have a budget.
They do try and cut as much cost as they can, limits on Physio, dental, re-charging for prescription medecine...Inflated costs for over the counter stuff at Pharmacy....supposed to non-profit but they charge more than local pharamcy..go figure
It sounds like that they are thinking of implementing the terms in our contract...which haven't changed , we have been relying on the generosity of our magnificent managers to go above and beyond what they have to do...after all EK is in serious financial difficulty
.....stands to reason, the only other companies as ruthless about cost cutting are in Chapt 11...
AS for the other points mostly spot on..despite what Turtle has to offer..
DEC programme was the first the sign of trouble. Cost cutting has had a major affect on most peoples long term financial situation....cost neutral salary cuts put me worse of now than I was 3 years ago..as for the spending power of the Dh in you pocket , I'll let the financial whizz kids work out exactly how much that has cost, all I know is that I know earn less, and have a lower standard of living now than I did before I joined EK...over 3 years ago..and before turtle head says that I am better of.....
Yes, the Villa I live in is larger, but a bed is a bed even if it is in a room 4 times the size, a TV shows the same stuff even if it's 42", the huge 4x4 is still a car, bit of a necessity rather than luxury and it costs me more than the sedan I used to drive on account of fuel economy being about a fifth as good, standard of produce im shops is generally poor, variety is another matter...
I go out less, have less savings, fewer holidays, and am permanently knackered...so as far as I am concerned my standard of living is lower..
.....DEC programme,anti pilot managers, inflation ...all add up to a huge pay cut...
Pause for breath...rant over
Ek Clinic has some very good doctors, but like all EK departments they have a budget.
They do try and cut as much cost as they can, limits on Physio, dental, re-charging for prescription medecine...Inflated costs for over the counter stuff at Pharmacy....supposed to non-profit but they charge more than local pharamcy..go figure
It sounds like that they are thinking of implementing the terms in our contract...which haven't changed , we have been relying on the generosity of our magnificent managers to go above and beyond what they have to do...after all EK is in serious financial difficulty
.....stands to reason, the only other companies as ruthless about cost cutting are in Chapt 11... AS for the other points mostly spot on..despite what Turtle has to offer..
DEC programme was the first the sign of trouble. Cost cutting has had a major affect on most peoples long term financial situation....cost neutral salary cuts put me worse of now than I was 3 years ago..as for the spending power of the Dh in you pocket , I'll let the financial whizz kids work out exactly how much that has cost, all I know is that I know earn less, and have a lower standard of living now than I did before I joined EK...over 3 years ago..and before turtle head says that I am better of.....
Yes, the Villa I live in is larger, but a bed is a bed even if it is in a room 4 times the size, a TV shows the same stuff even if it's 42", the huge 4x4 is still a car, bit of a necessity rather than luxury and it costs me more than the sedan I used to drive on account of fuel economy being about a fifth as good, standard of produce im shops is generally poor, variety is another matter...
I go out less, have less savings, fewer holidays, and am permanently knackered...so as far as I am concerned my standard of living is lower..
.....DEC programme,anti pilot managers, inflation ...all add up to a huge pay cut...
Pause for breath...rant over
Last edited by 145qrh; 28th Nov 2006 at 04:46.
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Cyberbird,
Have a look at the guys on long term sick leave via the roster/duty/sk, call them and see if they are;
being paid the full wage,
been told by the company that they are on limited sick leave,
that they are limited on the amount of care they will receive,
You will find that everything is the same as has always been, physio has always been limited to 6 visits at a time, I had 15, clinic had no problem with approving more on the recommendation of the physio, so don't know why your friend is different.
Overall, what would you get from say Cx/BA/QF/SQ etc if you had the same issues with them.... 2/3rds of f
all!!!
Have a look at the guys on long term sick leave via the roster/duty/sk, call them and see if they are;
being paid the full wage,
been told by the company that they are on limited sick leave,
that they are limited on the amount of care they will receive,
You will find that everything is the same as has always been, physio has always been limited to 6 visits at a time, I had 15, clinic had no problem with approving more on the recommendation of the physio, so don't know why your friend is different.
Overall, what would you get from say Cx/BA/QF/SQ etc if you had the same issues with them.... 2/3rds of f
all!!!
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I have to say that I know of two or three people who have been off sick long term who have nothing but good things to say about the way they were treated by management. I don't know any details of the case of the pilot who broke his leg and I don't know if policy has changed over the last month ot two, but give credit where it's due - right up to the very recent past, EK management have gone well beyond what the contract says in looking after pilots who were ill.
To balance my bouquet with a brickbat, I'd have to agree with the comment above regarding the Provident Fund's (non)performance. Looking at average market performance over the last few years, I can't believe the poor returns my A and B accounts have achieved.
To balance my bouquet with a brickbat, I'd have to agree with the comment above regarding the Provident Fund's (non)performance. Looking at average market performance over the last few years, I can't believe the poor returns my A and B accounts have achieved.
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EK Recruitment Policy
Anyone in EK who can tell me the recruitment policy for employing people of different nationalities, do they have any preferences e.g Europeans, GCC Nationals, Asians etc.
I heard of conlicting stories and I need some truth.
I heard of conlicting stories and I need some truth.
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The ONLY nationality given any sort of preference is UAE nationals, for the obvious reason that they'd like as many of their own citizens flying their aeroplanes - and the UAE is by no means alone in having that preference.
Judging by the extraordinary racial/nationality mix you see on the flight deck, there would appear to be no policy in place to avoid any race or nationality - I'm assuming, (pretty safely, I'd say) - with one expeption when it comes to nationality, and that's towards citizens of that State-that-can't-be-named, the 'hard place' King Abdullah of Jordan was referring to when he said that his country was "between Iraq and a Hard Place". That avoidance doesn't extend to people whose religion is the main religion of that 'hard place', for there are a number of pilots in the airline of that religion, and I know one or two of them make no attempt to hide their religion.
The only other 'skew' that I'm aware of is a desire not to have too large a group of any one particular nationality. As for why they want that, I'll leave for someone else to answer.
Judging by the extraordinary racial/nationality mix you see on the flight deck, there would appear to be no policy in place to avoid any race or nationality - I'm assuming, (pretty safely, I'd say) - with one expeption when it comes to nationality, and that's towards citizens of that State-that-can't-be-named, the 'hard place' King Abdullah of Jordan was referring to when he said that his country was "between Iraq and a Hard Place". That avoidance doesn't extend to people whose religion is the main religion of that 'hard place', for there are a number of pilots in the airline of that religion, and I know one or two of them make no attempt to hide their religion.
The only other 'skew' that I'm aware of is a desire not to have too large a group of any one particular nationality. As for why they want that, I'll leave for someone else to answer.
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Regarding sick leave...
I believe for the most part, pilot's are reasonably well taken care of.
However, with dependants the story is different. EK has stopped the cash when the $300,000dhs (until recently the amount of coverage was $200,000) has been burned through. This has happened a couple of times in the last year. You will be left holding the medical bill, unless you have other medical insurance. $300,000dhs ain't much.
Jinglied
I believe for the most part, pilot's are reasonably well taken care of.
However, with dependants the story is different. EK has stopped the cash when the $300,000dhs (until recently the amount of coverage was $200,000) has been burned through. This has happened a couple of times in the last year. You will be left holding the medical bill, unless you have other medical insurance. $300,000dhs ain't much.
Jinglied
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Regarding the Provident fund, it's the 5% that the Company provide which will need to exceed the statutory EOB, or else the latter is paid. Our own compulsory 5% is NOT factored into the calculations and would be in addition to the above sum.
I do agree, however, that there is too much protection built into our scheme and the recent results of the A + B fund is nothing short of criminal. People really need to start asking some searching questions.
I do agree, however, that there is too much protection built into our scheme and the recent results of the A + B fund is nothing short of criminal. People really need to start asking some searching questions.
So if one of your family is run over on a crossing by a well to do person, and the bills run past 300k then you gotta pay for the rest yourself ?
Souds extreme but the chances of this happening are really quite high.
I have also heard many insurance companies pick out loop holes with a fine tooth comb to avoid paying up.
Souds extreme but the chances of this happening are really quite high.
I have also heard many insurance companies pick out loop holes with a fine tooth comb to avoid paying up.
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Ramboflyer 1..
EK will payout $300,000dhs per dependant per disease/condition etc. So.. yes, if your child/spouse gets severally injured, becomes very ill, etc.. the company guarantees only $300,000dhs. If something else happens to another member of your family (or something different to the SAME member) the $300,000 dhs will be available again for the new case.
EK has recently continued paying beyond that amount for dependants with TERMINAL illness, (I know of at least one case where they continued support beyond $300,000dhs) but for non life threatening situations, you are left holding the tab.
Jinglie'd
EK will payout $300,000dhs per dependant per disease/condition etc. So.. yes, if your child/spouse gets severally injured, becomes very ill, etc.. the company guarantees only $300,000dhs. If something else happens to another member of your family (or something different to the SAME member) the $300,000 dhs will be available again for the new case.
EK has recently continued paying beyond that amount for dependants with TERMINAL illness, (I know of at least one case where they continued support beyond $300,000dhs) but for non life threatening situations, you are left holding the tab.
Jinglie'd
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I know of 4 pilots that were off for more than 1 year on full pay. know of one dependant whose care bill far exceeded 300000( company paid ). You get tried of hearing guys complain all the time , its not the best job out there but its ok. For those who cant shut up just leave you would be doing us all a big favour.
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Hey there "FATBUS"
I don't recall saying it was the worst job, nor the best. I am stating what I know happened. Seems like you're the one complaining..
And I have no intention of leaving at the moment.
Jinglie'd
I don't recall saying it was the worst job, nor the best. I am stating what I know happened. Seems like you're the one complaining..
And I have no intention of leaving at the moment.
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I dont complain ,to much of a wasted effort, just do my 90 hrs month because we really cant do much more and wait for what I think is a better job ( it may not happen in my life time)
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does EK really treat their staff well as they advertise?
Hi there all,
I have placed a similiar thread to this in another topic, but decided to put a separate one for exposure!
Situation as I have been contacted by EK for grade 09 position (but after 9 nmths since the advert was posted....which in itself begs a question!)and possible interview, I thought it best to canvas those currently in DXB and working for EK as to what they are like in looking after their people...DO THEY REALLY WALK THE WALK AND NOT JUST TALK THE TALK?
I know the salary for EK09 is around 18,000 dhs pmth....are they negotiable?
I have recieved the conditions sheet (with no base salary) but everything else seems OK on outside!
I have seen some unfavourable comments re housing, as i WAS looking to use the company accommodation and some have said they have been moved numerous times, why is this and is this normal? obviously we dont want to keep having to move every so often as this a real pain in the arse!
we want to be in a villa near the city for ease of access and does an EK09 get a villa (how many bedrooms?) or apartment?
are the villas freestanding or in a compound with pool, garage or carport, etc? what sort of condition are they in (incl the furniture)?
does one get to choose the villa (accommodation) or are you just given one and lump it or like it?
Where is the desert camp, why would one want to go out that far?
cost of living question: what a normal/ average trolley of groceries cost their for a family of 2 adults/1 child?
can anyone give me a precis of the interview process (non pilot/aircrew) as I believe it is over a 2 day period and did they arrange airfare, accommodation and visa (and pay for it) and what about meals?, where is it held?
for the interview do they pick you up at the airport and drop you off again?
what is cost of petrol?
what are better areas for renting (if I go that route) ...only get around 106,000 dhs pa for rent allowance (and it seems to rent a 3 bed villa in decent area at least 150k dhs pa or more?
tips on schools for child just entering high school ?
any issues re the health, insurance side of things with the company?
re the staff profit share...for an EK09 what was that over the last few financial years and is this based on a potential of your base salary?
I also noticed they may have an additional bonus if exceed their nominated profit, has that ever happened? how is that share based?
I know there will be those of you who will have an axe to grind and I am happy for you to vent your steam, however all I ask is that you can keep it objective for me at the same time, I do need to hear all the pros and the cons from you good folk.
all for now will have q's more later
rgds
Myway
I have placed a similiar thread to this in another topic, but decided to put a separate one for exposure!
Situation as I have been contacted by EK for grade 09 position (but after 9 nmths since the advert was posted....which in itself begs a question!)and possible interview, I thought it best to canvas those currently in DXB and working for EK as to what they are like in looking after their people...DO THEY REALLY WALK THE WALK AND NOT JUST TALK THE TALK?
I know the salary for EK09 is around 18,000 dhs pmth....are they negotiable?
I have recieved the conditions sheet (with no base salary) but everything else seems OK on outside!
I have seen some unfavourable comments re housing, as i WAS looking to use the company accommodation and some have said they have been moved numerous times, why is this and is this normal? obviously we dont want to keep having to move every so often as this a real pain in the arse!
we want to be in a villa near the city for ease of access and does an EK09 get a villa (how many bedrooms?) or apartment?
are the villas freestanding or in a compound with pool, garage or carport, etc? what sort of condition are they in (incl the furniture)?
does one get to choose the villa (accommodation) or are you just given one and lump it or like it?
Where is the desert camp, why would one want to go out that far?
cost of living question: what a normal/ average trolley of groceries cost their for a family of 2 adults/1 child?
can anyone give me a precis of the interview process (non pilot/aircrew) as I believe it is over a 2 day period and did they arrange airfare, accommodation and visa (and pay for it) and what about meals?, where is it held?
for the interview do they pick you up at the airport and drop you off again?
what is cost of petrol?
what are better areas for renting (if I go that route) ...only get around 106,000 dhs pa for rent allowance (and it seems to rent a 3 bed villa in decent area at least 150k dhs pa or more?
tips on schools for child just entering high school ?
any issues re the health, insurance side of things with the company?
re the staff profit share...for an EK09 what was that over the last few financial years and is this based on a potential of your base salary?
I also noticed they may have an additional bonus if exceed their nominated profit, has that ever happened? how is that share based?
I know there will be those of you who will have an axe to grind and I am happy for you to vent your steam, however all I ask is that you can keep it objective for me at the same time, I do need to hear all the pros and the cons from you good folk.
all for now will have q's more later
rgds
Myway