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Collective Colour Vision Thread 4

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Collective Colour Vision Thread 4

Old 23rd Jun 2012, 16:14
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 207
yes you are correct, the 38 plate edition is the full test, the first 15 plates are used from that version, so both versions are of the same test, in the' normal world if you can read at least 13 of 15 plates then you are classed as colour vision normal ie you can make 2 misreads or mistakes, unlike the world of aviation.
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Old 25th Jun 2012, 14:06
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: world
Posts: 2
thanks for the reply ScottishCPL,you mean both (24 and 38)are exactly same including the same numbers,same plates? I still dont understand why I made mistakes on 38 edition even though I had passed the other version.
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Old 4th Jul 2012, 14:54
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: ˙ǝqɐq ǝɯ ʇ,uıɐ ʇɐɥʇ 'sɔıʇɐqoɹǝɐ ɹoɟ uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɯɐu ɹıǝɥʇ ʇnd ǝɯos
Posts: 272
Guys,

Who has thought of joining the CVDPA but not done it yet?

We need your support. Things are happening! [and not just in Australia]

Last edited by outofwhack; 4th Jul 2012 at 14:55.
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Old 5th Jul 2012, 19:07
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 319
I have been browsing EASA Part Med. Sad, I know.

I notice that there is to be an easier test for CVD for the LAPL medical:-

"AMC15 MED.B.095 Colour vision
Applicants for a night rating should correctly identify 9 of the first 15 plates of the 24-plate edition of Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates or should be colour safe."


Can someone explain to me why it is safe for an LAPL with mild CVD to fly at night, yet unsafe for a PPL or CPL with the same level of deficiency?

And since an EASA PPL/CPL has the LAPL privileges embedded, does this mean I could obtain a 9/15 pass on the Ishihara plates at my local AME and then get a night rating which can only be used when I am exercising LAPL privileges on my CPL?
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Old 19th Jul 2012, 08:48
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SE Asia
Posts: 306
Testing required?

Under the JAA system, colour vision was not required to be retested on revalidation.

According to EASA, AMC1 MED B.075, "colour vision should be tested on clinical indication".

Can anyone tell me what this really means?
Arrowhead is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2012, 10:58
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: -
Posts: 1,176
Can anybody link me the new EASA normatives, please?
I have tried to find them in the last two days with no succesful results.
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Old 19th Jul 2012, 11:04
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 207
the easa medical requirments have not been published, and the LAPL requirments are the same.. unless anyone can advise..
Scottish.CPL is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2012, 11:10
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 207
arrowhead, its only if you or the medical officer have any concerns about the state of your vision, for example if you go on a medication that causes possible visual issue, ie change of colour of the eye ball ie jaundice, then they might ask to retest to check no damage to the fovea, which contains your colour vision rods/cone. i hope that help abit
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Old 19th Jul 2012, 18:31
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 503
Thanks Windforce,

Question I have is are we now operating under those documents (as of April) or as of 17th September??
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Old 19th Jul 2012, 20:42
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 503
Thanks for the info, very useful.
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Old 21st Jul 2012, 15:17
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
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hey dobbin

Im suspecting that the reason for the 9/15 for ishihara is based on the following

The LAPL medical is done via an approved AME doctor, who just like the NPPL medical is declaring that you are fit and healthy and no pathology, ie the doctor is taking responsibility away from CAA/JAA, and therefore a person only meeting the 9/15 will get a night rating through the guidance of the GP.

the CAA/JAA will not recommend the pass of 9/15 and place the 15/15 pass becuase they are not willing to accept a colour deficient pilot to hold a class one medical, even in one scores 13/15 the pass on the test, they still will not allow it.

I suspect that this will be positive and negative, but on the 17 September, people holding a class on medical with VDL limitations will no long hold valid medicals,

hope this might be helpfull
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Old 21st Jul 2012, 20:39
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 319
Surely they cannot invalidate my recently renewed class one just because September 17 arrives!

I will be visiting the CAA on September 18th or soon thereafter, clutching my JAR (by then deemed to be EASA) Class 1 (with the CVD limitations on it, which are not allowed on an EASA class 1) and demanding to replace my JAR CPL with a lifetime EASA CPL.

Will they deny me my hard earned CPL and demote me to PPL? I suppose I will find out soon enough, but if it happens, I will not accept that injustice lightly.

The whole situation is laughable.
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Old 21st Jul 2012, 20:48
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 207
hey dobbin1

the situation for most is that if they hold a class 1 with colour vision limitation, ie if you have failed all the colour vision tests, but where granted class 1 for flight instructor then ok, what im hearing is that easa class 1 are ok provided you are colour safe, but if you are not colour safe ie to jaa / caa standards then your class 1 could be reduced to class 2, don't take this as the gospel,

i have friends in this situation where they are concerned they will loose their cpl privileges to instruct, ie loss of lively hood,
Scottish.CPL is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2012, 05:57
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 319
Thanks for the update Windforce, albeit speculation.

I am actually in the fortunate position of holding a JAR CPL with no restrictions on it (they are all now on the medical) so it think I am in this situation:-
4) if your CPL states JAR-FCL1/2, (ie not a national UK) your licence is deemed to be an EASA licence even for CVDs, fact. I have also letters from the CAA confirming this - ie they will not downgrade or take away anything;
So hopefully I will receive a grandfathered CPL. I then assume that my next EASA medical will downgrade me to class 2, restricting my privileges to PPL. As you say, this is not the end of the world as paid instructing is now allowed under PPL privileges and I can still call myself a CPL, with the paperwork to prove it.
so no change or major loss of privileges there;
Can an EASA PPL (or CPL restricted to PPL privileges) instruct for the issue of a CPL? This pays a lot better than PPL instructing, so it is potentially a big factor.

It should be possible since there does not seem to be any requirement in CAP 804 to have a CPL to instruct for the CPL - the privilege to do that is built into the FI certificate :- "(d) a CPL in the appropriate aircraft category, provided that the FI has completed at least 500 hours of flight time as a pilot on that aircraft category, including at least 200 hours of flight instruction;" However, this goes against the "normal" requirement to hold at least the licence you are instructing for. It would be strange for a PPL who has never done the CPL flight training or test to instruct for CPL issue.

CVD pilots with current JAA (restricted) class one and a JAA CPL will get an EASA CPL and could very likely get an unrestrcted EASA class one medical, thus allowing them to continue to work. This could happen either 'directly' - especially for very marginal deficient CVDs - or through a medical flight test.
I can't believe they will issue unrestricted Class one certificates to anyone who has failed the lantern tests and deemed as "colour unsafe". They have never showed any inclination to accept a practical test in lieu of the silly colour vision tests, despite the mountain of evidence from Australia and the USA that CVD pilots perform just as well as colour normal pilots in normal flying operations, sim tests etc.

I'll put my hat on the menu if they do
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 09:58
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Windsor, UK
Age: 30
Posts: 233
Applying for EASA Class 1

My Class 2 is coming up for renewal at the early part of next year (5 years have flown by!). I have no restrictions on it and have my night qualification. When I did my colour blindness test with the AME, he said I may be slightly colour deficient as I got 1 or 2 wrong or it took me a while to see the patterns. However, he was sure I wasn't colour UNSAFE - hence why he issued my class 2 with no restrictions.

Say I applied for my class 1 and failed the colour vision tests.....would they also take away my night qualification priviledges for my PPL which are based on my class 2 unrestricted?

I'd like to say I was confident of getting my class 1 - but reading these 'no tolerance' stories on here scares me a bit!
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 10:07
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Australia
Age: 35
Posts: 9
Hi all,

Like Windforce says, join CVDPA and let's deal with the real issue - that the standards are nothing but discrimination & that CVD does not affect the 'safe performance of duties' as a pilot. I'm a protanope & have been able to enjoy a fulfilling career here in Australia at all levels day & night from GA instructing & charter through to airline flying. I can tell you from my own experience that the CVD standards have nothing to do with safety. We are currently mid-way through another court challenge here & our legal advice supports that fact.

Arthur (& indeed all members of CVDPA) want to help out overseas & mount further legal challenges so that everyone can enjoy the same freedoms as us Aussie's do. This can only be done though by everyone getting on board & supporting the cause.

We can keep talking forever, but at the end of the day we need to be united together so we can bring about action!
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 10:28
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 207
champair79, thank you for sharing this, this bothers me and may also others,

you applied for a class 2 medical, you make errors on ishihara and you were given an unresitrcted medical, im sorry but thats not only not legal, but dangerous towards your AME,

'When I did my colour blindness test with the AME, he said I may be slightly colour deficient as I got 1 or 2 wrong or it took me a while to see the patterns. However, he was sure I wasn't colour UNSAFE - hence why he issued my class 2 with no restrictions'

your ame must restrict you if you cannot pass ishihara to JAA standards, your ame would need to submit to caa the results of your medical, and if he or she has placed inaccurate information, they may place themselves in danger of having their ame status questioned.

Im sorry for being blunt and to the point, but you can clearly see the points being made...
Scottish.CPL is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2012, 10:51
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Windsor, UK
Age: 30
Posts: 233
Scottish.CPL,

Maybe I should have made myself a bit clearer. I did pass the tests to JAA standards. I believe the JAA allow 1 or 2 erros in the 24 plate test? I was under the impression that the UK CAA were the ones who didn't allow any errors whatsoever? On all the plates I could see the patterns. Some of them I found harder than others but I still managed to get all the numbers/patterns in the end.

My point was not that should I have passed/failed my class 2 - but rather what would happen if I didn't pass the colour vision tests whilst undergoing examination for my class 1 medical. Would they then automatically remove my night qualification on my PPL? Sounds a ridiculous situation to be in but it got me wondering.

As for my AME, I just want to clarify that I believe he did nothing wrong. In my initial post, I made it sound like he just passed me regardless of my success with the plates - that certainly wasn't the case! He seemed confident that if I were to go for my class 1, I should be ok. It's just me that's panicking a bit with the CAA's zero tolerance approach!
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Old 22nd Jul 2012, 10:57
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 207
ah right, ok, lol

yeah it was the way it was read, thanks for clearing that up
Scottish.CPL is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2012, 11:06
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 207
if you go to LGW and fail the plates, lantern, or the crappy CAD test then yes you will loose your night rating, and will not be given a class 1, remaining on your class 2 with restriction..

the issue is that the lighting for the plates are under constant review, because the lighting needs to be northern daylight, and it sometimes hard to simulate, so that's something to watch for.
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