LION AIR(Merged 2011 - 12)
Join Date: Jan 2012
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avoid lion air
avoid lion air .....it is becoming more more dangerous...
u will have to fly with first officer who have been upgraded to captain and have no idea about how to fly but they believe that fly 130 hours per month makes u a pilot ..
u will have to fly with first officer who have been upgraded to captain and have no idea about how to fly but they believe that fly 130 hours per month makes u a pilot ..
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Hi
Anybody have any suggestions if one was a Captain on B737@ B727 but hasn't been flying those in five years or so. I'm flying corporate the last few years and am banging my head against the wall trying to get back into a Boeing. I'm about to sign up for this eagle one hundred hour captain madness. I'd be eternally grateful if somebody has an idea to get around the recency in type requirements for direct captain positions; can't afford a low paying job anymore...
As far as I'm concerned, one should be able to fly any plane with ten legs in it or so. Mine is a dinky westwind, that's the only one I'm current in. Beware of changing type after your airline shuts down........ it's all for the kids, right.....
Anybody have any suggestions if one was a Captain on B737@ B727 but hasn't been flying those in five years or so. I'm flying corporate the last few years and am banging my head against the wall trying to get back into a Boeing. I'm about to sign up for this eagle one hundred hour captain madness. I'd be eternally grateful if somebody has an idea to get around the recency in type requirements for direct captain positions; can't afford a low paying job anymore...
As far as I'm concerned, one should be able to fly any plane with ten legs in it or so. Mine is a dinky westwind, that's the only one I'm current in. Beware of changing type after your airline shuts down........ it's all for the kids, right.....
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Anyone considering to partake in those shameful schemes just have a read here:
http://www.pprune.org/interviews-job...ect-p2f-2.html
You reap what you sow.
You lot willing to prostitute yourself are just despicable. And don't be telling me it's just the way the industry is these days. It's not. You're just too weak to earn your place.
If anyhow possible I avoid flying Lion at all costs as for good reason I know there is only one effective (if at all) CM on board.
http://www.pprune.org/interviews-job...ect-p2f-2.html
You reap what you sow.
You lot willing to prostitute yourself are just despicable. And don't be telling me it's just the way the industry is these days. It's not. You're just too weak to earn your place.
If anyhow possible I avoid flying Lion at all costs as for good reason I know there is only one effective (if at all) CM on board.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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$ 21,000usd up front then 4mths to get to the 100hrs release on line and salary as a captain then 12 months contract $72,000usd all in gives an average of $3200usd per month NETT truly terrible !!!!
However you then move to a proper job on $180,000usd and multiply by yrs to retirement and it probably looks much much better.
However you then move to a proper job on $180,000usd and multiply by yrs to retirement and it probably looks much much better.
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Code:
love this! do whatever you have to do, all these "p2f haters", ignore them I payed!(Observe the I, no one else) I fly shiny jets and I love it
P2fs are now a worldwide phenomenon due to few simple reasons. Many Gen Ys are with wealthy parents who are willing to fork out the $$$$, or ignorant self-motivated individuals who's passion is flying the metal tubes, but could not see the consequences of accepting the P2F arrangement.
Think about this, with so many willing to so called "live the dream" and P2F, thinking that the good days are ahead, what you guys have helped done is for opportunistic vulture like Lion Air in lowering the T & Cs for good, permanently.
In case you have not noticed, worldwide, thanks to P2F "contribution" or people who actually think it's ok to fly and be paid peanuts, we won't see any more pay hike for many years to come. So don't bitch about anything that's being advertised. If I were to be in the airlines management, I will go for the kill too knowing how stupid the new generation of pilots are.
Enjoy the ride boys, by the time you move up and if you're lucky to squeeze through the doors to any legacy carriers, do hide your P2F background for your own sake.
Join Date: Jun 2012
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I would agree with that statement, although they are still taking people from eaglejet and CFA but I think there is more to it than they are letting on.
as I said in another thread I failed the sim assesment with them and lost alot of money, no second chances.
the sim was totally over the top and I personally think they have to fail a certain number of people wether they cut it or not.
now work as FO with a major carrier and no problems during sim checks!! I rest my case...
as I said in another thread I failed the sim assesment with them and lost alot of money, no second chances.
the sim was totally over the top and I personally think they have to fail a certain number of people wether they cut it or not.
now work as FO with a major carrier and no problems during sim checks!! I rest my case...
Join Date: Jun 2012
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break break
I dont think P2F on your resume will affect future employment, I know of several guys who have been on the scheme and found jobs after Lion.
my wife works in HR for a major carrier and its not a consideration.
anyone who pays 40k to better themselfs and gain experince on a particualr aircraft shows a sheer dedication and passion and I would want them flying in my airline.
I dont think P2F on your resume will affect future employment, I know of several guys who have been on the scheme and found jobs after Lion.
my wife works in HR for a major carrier and its not a consideration.
anyone who pays 40k to better themselfs and gain experince on a particualr aircraft shows a sheer dedication and passion and I would want them flying in my airline.
Join Date: Oct 2011
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JetJockey would Lionair really scrap the P2f scheme? I would imagine it must be very lucrative for them? Did they get a better offer from another TRTO+line training provider?
Join Date: Jun 2012
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Lion air advice
Hello all,
this is a thread aimed at all those heading off or planning to join Lion air.
I have had numerous messages asking about the programes, so here is a General Q and A for you all.
1.) Lion air have contacts with 3 companys and do not take direct entry under normal circumstances. these are MSD, Eaglejet & CFA
2.) all 3 contractors are legit and I have personally met with the owners of both Eaglejet and CFA
3.) if you are seriously considering applying for a programe, you need to be sure you are an above average pilot. the type rating on the 737NG is not easy, and you will be placed in a very different environment to what you are used to at your flight schools. pilots that just got through there CPL, MECIR may not make it. flight schools tend to allow you to pass flight tests more and more easily these days and it will do you no favours in the professional world.
4.) GO TO JAKARTA!! even if just for a few days, it will be the best investment you make, Jakarta is very different to the lifestyle you are used to, it is not the safest city in the world and many westerners could potentially be taken advantage of if your not careful. you need to ask yourself, could I stay here for 5 years?
5.) be prepared to work very hard, your Type rating will be very demanding and this is just to get you past your check rides, the actual sim assesments and line checks get harder. you need to have the abilty to work and study hard with litte or no social time.
If you dont you will not make it. I promise you that.
6.) if you are still reading this and feel you can adhere to the above then you have a fantastic oppertunity to get some serious time on the NG
Myths and legends about Lion air
1.) Lion air will soon stop taking P2F pilots - I have personally seen the numbers for CFA and eaglejet and current wait time is around the 6-9 months to get a call up to go to Jakarta, once you are in Jakarta it could be up to 12 months before you start flying the line, it depends on several factors. as of the time of writing I know of no reason why any of these contracts will cease.
2.) if you join Lion air you will never be employed by a major carrier - This is a myth, you will read on here by fellow Ppruners that this is the case, however at the time of writing it will have no affect on future jobs. in other words if the anti P2F pilots makes it to CP they will not employ you which may happen one day. but for now its just hear say
3.) the standards at Lion air are terrible - this is not the case, the standards are very high, and no different to that of any other carriers. Lion air have pilots comming from ICAO states, UK, USA, Australia, Europe and are among some of the best trainined pilots in the world. be prepared to undergo vigerous recurrent training every 6 months.
4.) anyone can walk in to Lion air - if only that were true, it is simply not the case, you need to be above average, the average pilot fresh out of flight school with 200 hours will strugle to even get past the type rating let alone the line checks. of course it is every pilots dream to fly a large passenger operation jet, but the fact of the reality is you need to build up some experince else where before applying to the programe, and if you have the sort of money these programes cost then that should not be a problem. if you think you can "beat the system" I assure you that your mind will be changed after your 1st FFS ride. its not a fun game like flight school was, its serious buisness you have 230 lives at stake and a 33 million dollar aircraft. things need to be done correctly and done well. it was agreed by 2 of the 3 contractots that the majority of 200TT pilots dont make it to Lion air, and around 70% of pilots with 500 - 1000 TT get through and start flying the line.
well there is certainly alot of information to take in, I hope it helps,its an honest and accurate report of goings on at Lion and the 3 contractors that send pilots to Jakarta
this is a thread aimed at all those heading off or planning to join Lion air.
I have had numerous messages asking about the programes, so here is a General Q and A for you all.
1.) Lion air have contacts with 3 companys and do not take direct entry under normal circumstances. these are MSD, Eaglejet & CFA
2.) all 3 contractors are legit and I have personally met with the owners of both Eaglejet and CFA
3.) if you are seriously considering applying for a programe, you need to be sure you are an above average pilot. the type rating on the 737NG is not easy, and you will be placed in a very different environment to what you are used to at your flight schools. pilots that just got through there CPL, MECIR may not make it. flight schools tend to allow you to pass flight tests more and more easily these days and it will do you no favours in the professional world.
4.) GO TO JAKARTA!! even if just for a few days, it will be the best investment you make, Jakarta is very different to the lifestyle you are used to, it is not the safest city in the world and many westerners could potentially be taken advantage of if your not careful. you need to ask yourself, could I stay here for 5 years?
5.) be prepared to work very hard, your Type rating will be very demanding and this is just to get you past your check rides, the actual sim assesments and line checks get harder. you need to have the abilty to work and study hard with litte or no social time.
If you dont you will not make it. I promise you that.
6.) if you are still reading this and feel you can adhere to the above then you have a fantastic oppertunity to get some serious time on the NG
Myths and legends about Lion air
1.) Lion air will soon stop taking P2F pilots - I have personally seen the numbers for CFA and eaglejet and current wait time is around the 6-9 months to get a call up to go to Jakarta, once you are in Jakarta it could be up to 12 months before you start flying the line, it depends on several factors. as of the time of writing I know of no reason why any of these contracts will cease.
2.) if you join Lion air you will never be employed by a major carrier - This is a myth, you will read on here by fellow Ppruners that this is the case, however at the time of writing it will have no affect on future jobs. in other words if the anti P2F pilots makes it to CP they will not employ you which may happen one day. but for now its just hear say
3.) the standards at Lion air are terrible - this is not the case, the standards are very high, and no different to that of any other carriers. Lion air have pilots comming from ICAO states, UK, USA, Australia, Europe and are among some of the best trainined pilots in the world. be prepared to undergo vigerous recurrent training every 6 months.
4.) anyone can walk in to Lion air - if only that were true, it is simply not the case, you need to be above average, the average pilot fresh out of flight school with 200 hours will strugle to even get past the type rating let alone the line checks. of course it is every pilots dream to fly a large passenger operation jet, but the fact of the reality is you need to build up some experince else where before applying to the programe, and if you have the sort of money these programes cost then that should not be a problem. if you think you can "beat the system" I assure you that your mind will be changed after your 1st FFS ride. its not a fun game like flight school was, its serious buisness you have 230 lives at stake and a 33 million dollar aircraft. things need to be done correctly and done well. it was agreed by 2 of the 3 contractots that the majority of 200TT pilots dont make it to Lion air, and around 70% of pilots with 500 - 1000 TT get through and start flying the line.
well there is certainly alot of information to take in, I hope it helps,its an honest and accurate report of goings on at Lion and the 3 contractors that send pilots to Jakarta
Join Date: Apr 2010
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You make it sound like it's Top Gun. If you can't handle a TR course and sim checks you shouldn't have gone to flight school to begin with.
An above average size of wallet and an above average level of desperation is what you need for this program.
An above average size of wallet and an above average level of desperation is what you need for this program.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Lion Air has cease expats intake. I know because I asked. They going to serve out the reminder of the pilots who have been given a clearance to start with Lion. Recently about 30+ local cadets have start with training with Lion, more to come every month there are many flightschools, churning out CPL. Lion like local cadets more than expats because the contract is 5+years. expats only last 2years at most, some dont even last a year. (homesick)
Cirrus mention Indonesia is not for everyone.. its a tough country.. White guys seems to be a walking $$$.. no one that nice..not even your mom towards you. let's rip him off mentally..hey its a Third World Country... DOG eat DOG world.. you gotta to survive.. especially for the young ladies.... GUYS watch your wallet.. not from pickpockets... but from gold diggers. I know a few young pilots got into trouble with the local talent.. pregnancy etc..
People forget that the hiring of expats was to fill the shortage, fill the gap. Lionair has exceed the allowed number of expats by many times. Now the Indonesia Labour department has ask lion to stop because they seem to have forgotten the local cadets.. so stop or consequences will follow.
Just a little heads up.... pilot hiring bubble in Indonesia has burst.
Cirrus mention Indonesia is not for everyone.. its a tough country.. White guys seems to be a walking $$$.. no one that nice..not even your mom towards you. let's rip him off mentally..hey its a Third World Country... DOG eat DOG world.. you gotta to survive.. especially for the young ladies.... GUYS watch your wallet.. not from pickpockets... but from gold diggers. I know a few young pilots got into trouble with the local talent.. pregnancy etc..
People forget that the hiring of expats was to fill the shortage, fill the gap. Lionair has exceed the allowed number of expats by many times. Now the Indonesia Labour department has ask lion to stop because they seem to have forgotten the local cadets.. so stop or consequences will follow.
Just a little heads up.... pilot hiring bubble in Indonesia has burst.
Last edited by jetjockey696; 7th Oct 2012 at 12:21.
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jetjockey
How about the pilot that been selected recently by either eagle jet CFA or MSD?
Since lion like local because they stay longer,this might be the reason y CFA change their contract to 4 years instead of 2 like it use to be!
Since lion like local because they stay longer,this might be the reason y CFA change their contract to 4 years instead of 2 like it use to be!
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this is why it is a great idea to go to Jakarta first, I have a freind who got passed all his sim checks in 2010 and lasted 6 months before having a break down and leaving he is now being pursued for 50k he does not have!
it is for this reason I wrote my thread on what it takes to make it out there, be honest with yourself and if you dont think you could do it save yourself the heart ake.
some of the best advice I could give is below, it comes from experince and my own personal career.
flying a new aircraft is fun for about a month, after that the novelty wears off and it becomes routine. in the case of a Lion air pilot the reality of the low pay would be the major factor for most once the novelty wears off, rememeber there is another 3 years 11 months to go of this, suddernly the 50k to get out seems like a bargain to leave this terrible lifestyle for some
however if you can put that aside and stay focused you may get through it with out any problems.
the average take home pay at Garuda or citilink is around 4-5k PCM
Lion air pay expats 2,300 on paper but I have heard they try and get this lower once they offer you a contract.
dont assume everything will be fine and dandy, get yourself a week in Jakarta first is the best advice on here by far
it is for this reason I wrote my thread on what it takes to make it out there, be honest with yourself and if you dont think you could do it save yourself the heart ake.
some of the best advice I could give is below, it comes from experince and my own personal career.
flying a new aircraft is fun for about a month, after that the novelty wears off and it becomes routine. in the case of a Lion air pilot the reality of the low pay would be the major factor for most once the novelty wears off, rememeber there is another 3 years 11 months to go of this, suddernly the 50k to get out seems like a bargain to leave this terrible lifestyle for some
however if you can put that aside and stay focused you may get through it with out any problems.
the average take home pay at Garuda or citilink is around 4-5k PCM
Lion air pay expats 2,300 on paper but I have heard they try and get this lower once they offer you a contract.
dont assume everything will be fine and dandy, get yourself a week in Jakarta first is the best advice on here by far
Join Date: Aug 2011
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So Cirrus , you 'heard' that Lion try to reduce salary?
I think all airlines play that game dont they?
I have a colleague whos son lost his job in Europe on turboprops and then after 2yrs unemployed took what was left of his savings and redundancy money , did the B737NGtype rating and is with Lion Air now as an f/o.
He netts £2300/mth , flying 100hrs/mth and stops flying at the legal max which he sais there is no pressure to exceed but they will try if you let them.
6 days on 1 off till out of hours every month.
He grits his teeth and gets on with it and has been in the Qatar holding pool for 8mths and now more recently Emirates too which is tough.
P2F is better than the dole and has opened up doors for him.
Its horrible but you can only blame Ryanair and Easyjet for starting this ball rolling.
I think all airlines play that game dont they?
I have a colleague whos son lost his job in Europe on turboprops and then after 2yrs unemployed took what was left of his savings and redundancy money , did the B737NGtype rating and is with Lion Air now as an f/o.
He netts £2300/mth , flying 100hrs/mth and stops flying at the legal max which he sais there is no pressure to exceed but they will try if you let them.
6 days on 1 off till out of hours every month.
He grits his teeth and gets on with it and has been in the Qatar holding pool for 8mths and now more recently Emirates too which is tough.
P2F is better than the dole and has opened up doors for him.
Its horrible but you can only blame Ryanair and Easyjet for starting this ball rolling.
Join Date: Dec 2007
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The ueberstuff
I guess I started this Lion thing back up. Everybody always talks about low timers and there first job. For Cirrus, no you are not right. One should fly night freight, airforce, commuter or whatever before going on a major passenger jet. It's very difficult to develope instinct flying in highly automated big jets from the start. Reliability is up so much that instinct is not necessary anymore on a daily basis, just on a rainy day. I guess that is what you mean talking about Lion air's air superiority. I already have 10000hours in jets, and wonder howelse to get currency in type back. I was more thinking a month or two in Jacarta, not for years. If you know of somebody who lets me have some fun in his 737 let me know.
Last edited by efatnas; 7th Oct 2012 at 22:09.