View Poll Results: Was flying training a bad decision for you?
Yes, regretfully so
113
17.07%
Neither a bad not a good choice
121
18.28%
No, hell no, see you are 37,000ft
428
64.65%
Voters: 662. This poll is closed
Knowing what you know now about this game, wud you have done it all in the 1st plce?
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 1,688
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After a few days off, I start to get withdrawal symptoms
I am less happy when I have not flown for a while, without a shadow of a doubt. Cannot say I ever experienced that feeling with any other job!
VFE.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: A place where something is or could be located; a site.
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VFE- Quick question.
Why not get a job with the airlines and instruct part time? The electric autobus pays the bills and the Traumahawk still provides the thrills.
Just seems to me that life on an FI salary (right word?) is not possible.
This is very much my long term plan anyway and I fail to see the downside....
EK
Why not get a job with the airlines and instruct part time? The electric autobus pays the bills and the Traumahawk still provides the thrills.
Just seems to me that life on an FI salary (right word?) is not possible.
This is very much my long term plan anyway and I fail to see the downside....
EK
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Absolutely, I'd do it again.
I was a 30 yr old career changer back in 2000. I remember WWW (thanks) on PPRUNE back then. I started as FlyingTomato, named after the VW Beetle I slogged up to Biggin in for my flying lessons, however my password never worked when PPRUNE upgraded so I had to reincarnate.
I set out with a distant aim, to work for Cathay Pacific or BA, and didn't much care for the details of how to get there. There was an awful lot of luck involved, more than I deserved. The best job was the least paid, instructing PPL, yet the most rewarding. I lost my first job before I ever started it, KLMuk (Buzz) thanks to O'Leary. For some reason I never gave up when faced with an impossible job situation back in 2003. My only enemy has been myself, mostly in the sim, luckily I exceeded myself in interviews.
Now I'm where I wanted to be, to be honest the BA selection was the easiest selection, I suppose I was on autopilot. Now I'm just moving over to LH and it's like starting off all over again.
The reason everything I've done has been satisfying is because my two basic needs were to fly, and to see other countries whilst having a beer in good company. Two easy tick boxes. The money was never an issue, I ended up with the same stupid debts as everyone else. I'm now paid very well. I don't even notice, my mortgage for a basic place is huge like everyone else. The time I had the biggest disposable income was at uni. Then I spent it on beer and travel, just like now really!
My only regret is giving up GA flying whilst getting my career off the ground, because I couldn't afford it. I'll be back real flying very soon though.
I was a 30 yr old career changer back in 2000. I remember WWW (thanks) on PPRUNE back then. I started as FlyingTomato, named after the VW Beetle I slogged up to Biggin in for my flying lessons, however my password never worked when PPRUNE upgraded so I had to reincarnate.
I set out with a distant aim, to work for Cathay Pacific or BA, and didn't much care for the details of how to get there. There was an awful lot of luck involved, more than I deserved. The best job was the least paid, instructing PPL, yet the most rewarding. I lost my first job before I ever started it, KLMuk (Buzz) thanks to O'Leary. For some reason I never gave up when faced with an impossible job situation back in 2003. My only enemy has been myself, mostly in the sim, luckily I exceeded myself in interviews.
Now I'm where I wanted to be, to be honest the BA selection was the easiest selection, I suppose I was on autopilot. Now I'm just moving over to LH and it's like starting off all over again.
The reason everything I've done has been satisfying is because my two basic needs were to fly, and to see other countries whilst having a beer in good company. Two easy tick boxes. The money was never an issue, I ended up with the same stupid debts as everyone else. I'm now paid very well. I don't even notice, my mortgage for a basic place is huge like everyone else. The time I had the biggest disposable income was at uni. Then I spent it on beer and travel, just like now really!
My only regret is giving up GA flying whilst getting my career off the ground, because I couldn't afford it. I'll be back real flying very soon though.
That's nice - I remember Flying Tomato. Going back a bit now. Glad it all worked out for you in the end.
If did a PPL when I was 17. Instructed on motor gliders from 18 until 24 then started intructing PPLs and then CPL IR's. Then I was lucky to join a B737 low cost airline 9 months before Sept 11th which a few years later was expanding and needed to promote people to the left hand seat at the first opportunity. My training costs were subsidised by the Queen and done in the days before JAA when everything was cheaper and children still had respect for their elders.
All of which is extremely lucky and the job is good fun, pays well and is really stimulating. I certainly wouldn't want to do anything else and I fully understand why people are desperate to chase their dream.
I wish you all as much luck as I have enjoyed.
Just be careful right now about how you finance your dream.
Its *IS* worth it in the end if you make it. That's all you really need to know.
WWW
If did a PPL when I was 17. Instructed on motor gliders from 18 until 24 then started intructing PPLs and then CPL IR's. Then I was lucky to join a B737 low cost airline 9 months before Sept 11th which a few years later was expanding and needed to promote people to the left hand seat at the first opportunity. My training costs were subsidised by the Queen and done in the days before JAA when everything was cheaper and children still had respect for their elders.
All of which is extremely lucky and the job is good fun, pays well and is really stimulating. I certainly wouldn't want to do anything else and I fully understand why people are desperate to chase their dream.
I wish you all as much luck as I have enjoyed.
Just be careful right now about how you finance your dream.
Its *IS* worth it in the end if you make it. That's all you really need to know.
WWW
Supercharged PPRuNer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Doon the watter, a million miles from the sandpit.
Posts: 1,183
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There you have it ladies and gentlemen. Just to prove WWW does sometimes come up with a positive post. 
You haven't been sniffing the crew O2 by any chance?
You haven't been sniffing the crew O2 by any chance?
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Yuech! Only dust free masks are the ones in the sim!! 
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 1,688
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EK4457:
It is a good question and it simply comes down to the fact I live close to my airfield, I love the peeps I work with and get to fly over my house everyday and smile.
Sure, the novelty will wear off and after a coupla years now it's started. But I feel CERTAIN my experiences gained as an FI have made me more of a pilot (in the basic sense).
At school I was never a high acheiver and basically, out of most my original set of mates, I have exceeded the best in terms of a perceived job, so the money aspect so far has been clouded by a genuine sense of happiness at where I'm at right now.
But I shall look at the airlines the moment I feel otherwise.
Rule one in life: Never make a career decision based on money.
VFE.
It is a good question and it simply comes down to the fact I live close to my airfield, I love the peeps I work with and get to fly over my house everyday and smile.
Sure, the novelty will wear off and after a coupla years now it's started. But I feel CERTAIN my experiences gained as an FI have made me more of a pilot (in the basic sense).
At school I was never a high acheiver and basically, out of most my original set of mates, I have exceeded the best in terms of a perceived job, so the money aspect so far has been clouded by a genuine sense of happiness at where I'm at right now.
But I shall look at the airlines the moment I feel otherwise.
Rule one in life: Never make a career decision based on money.
VFE.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: London
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Greetings all.
Excellent thread. I'm a newbie doing their PPL at the mo, looking into whether a career change into aviation is plausible so I hope you guys will tolerate a few naive questions!
At 26 I've spent 4 years as a mechanical engineer (does previous employment have any influence on pilot job prospects?) in building services and although I've got excellent job security and okish pay, it's can be boring, and with little job satisfaction. In that respect, the fact that the novelty of flying may wear off (if I go for it and make it) doesn't bother me - I know what a properly boring job can be like.
That said, from reading other threads on here, jacking in my job in the optimistic hope of training and getting paid to sit in a cockpit at the end of it would seem to be a bad move.
Anyway, the main question I wanted to ask was, does anyone know what pilot prospects are in the states? I may well have the opportunity to live and work there, so if I've got a better chance of getting a flying job there it's something I need to consider.
Excellent thread. I'm a newbie doing their PPL at the mo, looking into whether a career change into aviation is plausible so I hope you guys will tolerate a few naive questions!
At 26 I've spent 4 years as a mechanical engineer (does previous employment have any influence on pilot job prospects?) in building services and although I've got excellent job security and okish pay, it's can be boring, and with little job satisfaction. In that respect, the fact that the novelty of flying may wear off (if I go for it and make it) doesn't bother me - I know what a properly boring job can be like.
That said, from reading other threads on here, jacking in my job in the optimistic hope of training and getting paid to sit in a cockpit at the end of it would seem to be a bad move.
Anyway, the main question I wanted to ask was, does anyone know what pilot prospects are in the states? I may well have the opportunity to live and work there, so if I've got a better chance of getting a flying job there it's something I need to consider.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Flamin Squirrel, when the US is good, it's very good, when it's bad it's disastrous. At the moment there's a big threat to many of the larger airlines with the threat of furlough hanging over many pilots.
You'll need a degree to get a sniff at the majors along with a lot of hours.
Being an FO for a regional will mean very little pay.
Generally in the US, low houred guys do not start on jets.
You'll need a degree to get a sniff at the majors along with a lot of hours.
Being an FO for a regional will mean very little pay.
Generally in the US, low houred guys do not start on jets.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: here there every where...
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well..have a job right now...been at it for 10 yrs, only after 9 yrs got my self a jet job.....but for how long anyones guess...
.
I'll will discourage anyone who wants to be an Airline pilot.....It cost an arm and a leg and the rest... pay is abselutly crap....when you have a family....
I will never get my investment back...hell no...
It is not worth...it....
.I'll will discourage anyone who wants to be an Airline pilot.....It cost an arm and a leg and the rest... pay is abselutly crap....when you have a family....
I will never get my investment back...hell no...
It is not worth...it....
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: here there every where...
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
here is another my 2 cents worth...read this link......
http://www.dicksmithflyer.com.au/cat_index_44.php
http://www.dicksmithflyer.com.au/cat_index_44.php
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Dick Smith is not a professional pilot.
A lot of what he says is true but it isn't the whole truth.
Being flexible with your work choices and being willing to shift for a job.
You might think it would "suck" going to Africa or Scotland but you'd be surprised. You'll make friends (contacts
) and see things that will stay with you forever.
Much of how this industry is perceived depends on your career path and the amount of debt you're in.
eg
Work your butt off to afford an integrated course with minimal loans and timing that to finish as the economy improves and not ignoring the turboprop or bizjet market = flexibility.
Going into a huge amount of debt at integrated school, buying a type rating but the only job available is instructing, then you'll be annoyed.
Doing a modular course while timing it to finish during an up turn and spending a year or so on a turboprop then getting command. After that, going to a jet job and enjoying those new challenges will add a new thrill to your career.
Keep your exposure to debt to a minimum means you can enjoy choice with your career.
A lot of what he says is true but it isn't the whole truth.
Being flexible with your work choices and being willing to shift for a job.
You might think it would "suck" going to Africa or Scotland but you'd be surprised. You'll make friends (contacts
) and see things that will stay with you forever.Much of how this industry is perceived depends on your career path and the amount of debt you're in.
eg
Work your butt off to afford an integrated course with minimal loans and timing that to finish as the economy improves and not ignoring the turboprop or bizjet market = flexibility.
Going into a huge amount of debt at integrated school, buying a type rating but the only job available is instructing, then you'll be annoyed.
Doing a modular course while timing it to finish during an up turn and spending a year or so on a turboprop then getting command. After that, going to a jet job and enjoying those new challenges will add a new thrill to your career.
Keep your exposure to debt to a minimum means you can enjoy choice with your career.
Formerly HWD
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indochina
Age: 57
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Being flexible with your work choices and being willing to shift for a job. You might think it would "suck" going to Africa or Scotland but you'd be surprised. You'll make friends (contacts ) and see things that will stay with you forever.
) and see things that will stay with you forever.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I answered "No" to the question, although I was going to opt for the middle one.
It was not a bad decision, but the decision was made almost 5 years ago, when the job market looked good. Now, the market looks awful!!!
I was very, very lucky to get that first job, since I had no contacts, etc.... Pure luck....Sometimes, you need it.
I still have a lot of debt to recover from, but I am getting there....
It is a job I enjoy a lot. There are also things I don't like about it, or things I am frustrated with....It is not always the "dream job", you know....!
It was not a bad decision, but the decision was made almost 5 years ago, when the job market looked good. Now, the market looks awful!!!
I was very, very lucky to get that first job, since I had no contacts, etc.... Pure luck....Sometimes, you need it.
I still have a lot of debt to recover from, but I am getting there....
It is a job I enjoy a lot. There are also things I don't like about it, or things I am frustrated with....It is not always the "dream job", you know....!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ex-DXB
Posts: 927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is worth it and it is everything I expected it to be. I researched the job heavily, both pros and cons, and the only part that still surprises me is how much time I get off.
However, do not financially ruin yourself by getting into commercial aviation. I was fortunate enough to be able to do my flying training but also go back to another career if it all went wrong. But the important part is this....
If I had had a mortgage, plus wife and family, in no way would have I changed career to flying at 31 years old. It was a calculated risk that has paid off - the best kind of risk and the most satisfying.
I would not place £50k on Red #5, #15 or #23 unless I knew that there were high chances of the jack landing on them. Would you?
I also knew both sides of the coin before commercial flight training having worked in sales and marketing for 7 years. Once I had the flying bug it was an easy but very well thought out choice. I asked myself questions such as how will my life change, will I enjoy it, will I still see my friends at weekends etc... I made sure I knew all these answers before I started. Now when I do miss a party or an event I realise that there will be another one soon that I can attend. Not all things in life are attendable no matter what occupation you are in.
At my age most of my friends are married with kids so I rarely miss something like I would have 10 years ago. This brings me to say that in no way could I have done this job when I was in my early twenties. Once again planning was an important factor in changing career.
After training I instructed for a while which eventually led to passing selection onto jets. However instructing almost led to air-taxi work and small biz-jet work due to contacts made at my PPL flying club. Now I'm on the 319, only one and a half years in, and earn over 50k. Do I miss not having flown turbo-props - yes - but not the low salary. Anyhow, as I'm in my mid thirties and nowhere near retired, perhaps one day I will.
Other factors that make me have few regrets are that I'm still not married, have no mortgage and my girlfriend flies and earns double. This is hugely important and goes along way for lifestyle and stability. I find that previous girlfriends who worked Monday to Friday never had a clear grasp of aviation, what my lifestyle entailed and how I become affected by what I do - the sleep patterns and fatigue in particular.
Anyhow, we plan our rosters around each other’s and I go on plenty of trips with her. As my roster allows 4 days off after a working block of 5, two days holiday gives six days off - enough for a £120 return to CPT or SFO. I met her due to my career change and I'm incredibly thankful for that. I’m sure that marriage and kids will follow soon so part time will beckon. Both our companies have this option in place.
Please remember that these are my experiences and my experiences alone. I understand that other pilots on here will work for different airlines, have different rosters and days off, will have varying sizes of mortgage and also have family not involved in aviation but these will be their experiences/choices.
I’m sorry that people still do type ratings without signing a contract first. Ten seconds research on PPRUNE will tell you not to this.
Aviation has given me much and will continue to do so. I've worked to be where I am and have made sound choices along the way. If I had made different choices then I would be writing a different post.
I do moan from time to time like anybody else but this is my bigger picture
To summarise, So far - so good.
However, do not financially ruin yourself by getting into commercial aviation. I was fortunate enough to be able to do my flying training but also go back to another career if it all went wrong. But the important part is this....
If I had had a mortgage, plus wife and family, in no way would have I changed career to flying at 31 years old. It was a calculated risk that has paid off - the best kind of risk and the most satisfying.
I would not place £50k on Red #5, #15 or #23 unless I knew that there were high chances of the jack landing on them. Would you?
I also knew both sides of the coin before commercial flight training having worked in sales and marketing for 7 years. Once I had the flying bug it was an easy but very well thought out choice. I asked myself questions such as how will my life change, will I enjoy it, will I still see my friends at weekends etc... I made sure I knew all these answers before I started. Now when I do miss a party or an event I realise that there will be another one soon that I can attend. Not all things in life are attendable no matter what occupation you are in.
At my age most of my friends are married with kids so I rarely miss something like I would have 10 years ago. This brings me to say that in no way could I have done this job when I was in my early twenties. Once again planning was an important factor in changing career.
After training I instructed for a while which eventually led to passing selection onto jets. However instructing almost led to air-taxi work and small biz-jet work due to contacts made at my PPL flying club. Now I'm on the 319, only one and a half years in, and earn over 50k. Do I miss not having flown turbo-props - yes - but not the low salary. Anyhow, as I'm in my mid thirties and nowhere near retired, perhaps one day I will.
Other factors that make me have few regrets are that I'm still not married, have no mortgage and my girlfriend flies and earns double. This is hugely important and goes along way for lifestyle and stability. I find that previous girlfriends who worked Monday to Friday never had a clear grasp of aviation, what my lifestyle entailed and how I become affected by what I do - the sleep patterns and fatigue in particular.
Anyhow, we plan our rosters around each other’s and I go on plenty of trips with her. As my roster allows 4 days off after a working block of 5, two days holiday gives six days off - enough for a £120 return to CPT or SFO. I met her due to my career change and I'm incredibly thankful for that. I’m sure that marriage and kids will follow soon so part time will beckon. Both our companies have this option in place.
Please remember that these are my experiences and my experiences alone. I understand that other pilots on here will work for different airlines, have different rosters and days off, will have varying sizes of mortgage and also have family not involved in aviation but these will be their experiences/choices.
I’m sorry that people still do type ratings without signing a contract first. Ten seconds research on PPRUNE will tell you not to this.
Aviation has given me much and will continue to do so. I've worked to be where I am and have made sound choices along the way. If I had made different choices then I would be writing a different post.
I do moan from time to time like anybody else but this is my bigger picture
To summarise, So far - so good.
Last edited by Craggenmore; 1st Jul 2008 at 01:59.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Southhampton, uk
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pros and cons for both integrated and modular.
Integrated will be quick, not that much more money and better chances of descent airline job so you dont have to work in low paid jobs for years.
Modular: you can have another career as a back up, can take long time to complete and if you have wife/girfriend, you better keep buying them flowers and be sweet to them all the time. lol
Would i do it again. NO!
As in current market people are paying money to airlines just to work for them, when I started my training, airline companies were giving sponsorships and respect to pilots.
With hindsight, I would have done cheap PPL course in the USA and fly privately for fun.
Integrated will be quick, not that much more money and better chances of descent airline job so you dont have to work in low paid jobs for years.
Modular: you can have another career as a back up, can take long time to complete and if you have wife/girfriend, you better keep buying them flowers and be sweet to them all the time. lol
Would i do it again. NO!
As in current market people are paying money to airlines just to work for them, when I started my training, airline companies were giving sponsorships and respect to pilots.
With hindsight, I would have done cheap PPL course in the USA and fly privately for fun.
Supercharged PPRuNer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Doon the watter, a million miles from the sandpit.
Posts: 1,183
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Integrated will be quick, not that much more money and better chances of descent airline job
However, to say that an integrated course is "not that much more money" is simply not true. I went from zero hours to CPL/IR + MCC for around £45k all in, including accomodation while away from home. With hindsight I could have done it cheaper, and I managed to get a very decent airline job at the end of it.
FTE's current price for their integrated course is over €102k. Oxford's ATPL course is £63k.
Whichever way you calculate it, an integrated course is very much more expensive.
You can do a modular course faster than and integrated one. Easily. And you'll be in control all the way.
When you hand over that cheque to FTE/CABAIR/OATS you become a sausage in their sausage machine and you are regarded as such. Threaten to stop writing cheques at a smaller Modular school and the owner will have you in his office with biscuits withing the hour.
Trust me, this makes a difference.
WWW
When you hand over that cheque to FTE/CABAIR/OATS you become a sausage in their sausage machine and you are regarded as such. Threaten to stop writing cheques at a smaller Modular school and the owner will have you in his office with biscuits withing the hour.
Trust me, this makes a difference.
WWW
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Desert but shortly to be HK!)
Age: 49
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please stay on topic folks... would be a same if this interesting thread degenerated into an integrated vs modular debate... that is not what I believe the original poster started it for...