View Poll Results: Was flying training a bad decision for you?
Yes, regretfully so
113
17.07%
Neither a bad not a good choice
121
18.28%
No, hell no, see you are 37,000ft
428
64.65%
Voters: 662. This poll is closed
Knowing what you know now about this game, wud you have done it all in the 1st plce?
Join Date: Mar 2007
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I do see what your saying WWW.
I personally think CTC is a great course. However, I have this gut feeling that my dream is to keep it all local. Join my local flying club; do my commercial training at a local flight school and get a job with a local airline flying around the Scottish islands and mainland. True flying.
I did think for awhile, why don't I just take my degree to the next level and become a lawyer, but the thought of sitting in that sort of environment for the rest of my life scares me. When I'm sitting at Prestwick and you see the brand new Easyjet aircraft with recently qualified crews doing their circuits, I just think I want a piece of that action.
I personally think CTC is a great course. However, I have this gut feeling that my dream is to keep it all local. Join my local flying club; do my commercial training at a local flight school and get a job with a local airline flying around the Scottish islands and mainland. True flying.
I did think for awhile, why don't I just take my degree to the next level and become a lawyer, but the thought of sitting in that sort of environment for the rest of my life scares me. When I'm sitting at Prestwick and you see the brand new Easyjet aircraft with recently qualified crews doing their circuits, I just think I want a piece of that action.
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greener Grass... ?
Ams.. love your post.
I Working > 9 hours (at leadt in Finance) =
yep same here, 12hrs, no breaks.
Minimal time for lunch... = lunch ? really ?
try food packed 7 hrs previous in sweaty plastic container, balanced on kneeboard in filthy flight deck, somewhere over franc, whilst trying to speak on radio.
Long dreaded journeys on the Tube.. =
commute, painful time wasting trip from car park to terminal, security, long walk to crew room.
Regular tube delays - 1 hour journey can become 3 hours =
Ok you got me here , never been 3 hours late, but sometime feels like it when you've taken your shoes, belt, jacket off for 13th time this week, emptied, your lunch box, your wallet, your bag, you pencil case onto the conveyor for all important security checks.
No overtime -most cases. =
Overtime, Never. Extension of duty, frequent esp in summer.
minimal wage increases =[B]
likewise with caveat that saving fuel might just save your job!
Mostly no bonus, and if you do - expect 5 - 8% - unless you are in an Investment Bank =
Bonuses for management only. We have profit share... but apparently never make a profit!
Take work home every other night =
work most nights. If not those couple of days off per week are for sim check preperation, command prep, aic's , studying, etc.
Stress about work on the weekends =
1 weekend off in 6.
Have a different Ops and crewing depts - called Senior Management
......shall I continue..
mmmmm yes please !
However, it does mean I could get paid more that a Captain, but what is the point if I cannot enjoy it.
I guess each role will have its pros and cons - but if you enjoy it then great - but if not then like me you are - off
Agreed, i like my job, There is simply too much of it. Its hard for me these days to recommend that someone spend a fortune on training for a job like this. i love flying, and it pays the bills, but when you do too much of it, it feels like any other job. Ask any junior doctor!
Live is for living eh ?
I Working > 9 hours (at leadt in Finance) =
yep same here, 12hrs, no breaks.
Minimal time for lunch... = lunch ? really ?
try food packed 7 hrs previous in sweaty plastic container, balanced on kneeboard in filthy flight deck, somewhere over franc, whilst trying to speak on radio.
Long dreaded journeys on the Tube.. =
commute, painful time wasting trip from car park to terminal, security, long walk to crew room.
Regular tube delays - 1 hour journey can become 3 hours =
Ok you got me here , never been 3 hours late, but sometime feels like it when you've taken your shoes, belt, jacket off for 13th time this week, emptied, your lunch box, your wallet, your bag, you pencil case onto the conveyor for all important security checks.
No overtime -most cases. =
Overtime, Never. Extension of duty, frequent esp in summer.
minimal wage increases =[B]
likewise with caveat that saving fuel might just save your job!
Mostly no bonus, and if you do - expect 5 - 8% - unless you are in an Investment Bank =
Bonuses for management only. We have profit share... but apparently never make a profit!
Take work home every other night =
work most nights. If not those couple of days off per week are for sim check preperation, command prep, aic's , studying, etc.
Stress about work on the weekends =
1 weekend off in 6.
Have a different Ops and crewing depts - called Senior Management
......shall I continue..
mmmmm yes please !
However, it does mean I could get paid more that a Captain, but what is the point if I cannot enjoy it.
I guess each role will have its pros and cons - but if you enjoy it then great - but if not then like me you are - off
Agreed, i like my job, There is simply too much of it. Its hard for me these days to recommend that someone spend a fortune on training for a job like this. i love flying, and it pays the bills, but when you do too much of it, it feels like any other job. Ask any junior doctor!
Live is for living eh ?
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Where do you work in finance?? In my case it's as so:
AO
- work 8hrs a day; but some days you could have a bit more work but these are not frequent.
- weekends - enjoy them. if you're ever called in for a saturday, you're paid overtime
- overtime, as can be seen above, is paid - work on a public holiday and it's 350% (tax free)....
- lunch - usually 1hr but it may end up being 1hr 15mins.
- tube... i drive to work; 30mins on the highway. Since i get to work at 0930 that means no traffic on the highway... nice cruise in my cabrio =)
- bonusses are there, but of course you'd have to work for them.
- salary increases every year
- get back home after work (not in the traffic as i get back after the rush hour) and enjoy the time playing on the PC, going to the gym, off for a quick sail/cycle/walk, cruise along the river with a honda cbr 600...
- possibility to gain experience and hunt for better positions with better pay is a walk in the park
AO
Supercharged PPRuNer
Join Date: Nov 2000
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And that is why there is no right or wrong answer to the original question. Everyone is different, their attitudes, their aspirations, their circumstances.
In the words of the multitude in The Life of Brian - we've all got to work it out for ourselves.
In the words of the multitude in The Life of Brian - we've all got to work it out for ourselves.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Totally agree Dave
Currently spend most of my days trying to optimise my divisions resourcing or jsut sat playing on PPRUNE
Very very little physics or engineering going on here
B
G SXTY
I thought you were going to say 'Lifes a piece of...'
Which of course it isnt if you are booked in for your phase 4 assessment with CTC and looking forward to a long a rewarding career in aviation....(They may be watching)
Currently spend most of my days trying to optimise my divisions resourcing or jsut sat playing on PPRUNE
Very very little physics or engineering going on here
B
G SXTY
I thought you were going to say 'Lifes a piece of...'
Which of course it isnt if you are booked in for your phase 4 assessment with CTC and looking forward to a long a rewarding career in aviation....(They may be watching
)
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DJ
Hahhahaha -same here its all finite element modelling stuff now.
I do EM and antenna modelling/design and all of Maxwells little horrors are done for you in the background. Still garbage in = garbage out so you are required to know what you are asking the CAD to do.....not that we are doing any tech stuff at the mo....and not that i care anymore
I have been doing Manc to Brizzol in a 737 and numerous laps of PLY in anything from a 172 to a BAe Hawk
Thing is with FSX as with any non-commercial simulators (I guess and hope) is that they seem to be much harder than the real thing / a commercial simulator.....anyone input on this last wildely sweeping statement.
Plus we are in danger of hijacking this thread too so maybe this should go elsewhere????
Barry
Hahhahaha -same here its all finite element modelling stuff now.
I do EM and antenna modelling/design and all of Maxwells little horrors are done for you in the background. Still garbage in = garbage out so you are required to know what you are asking the CAD to do.....not that we are doing any tech stuff at the mo....and not that i care anymore
I have been doing Manc to Brizzol in a 737 and numerous laps of PLY in anything from a 172 to a BAe Hawk
Thing is with FSX as with any non-commercial simulators (I guess and hope) is that they seem to be much harder than the real thing / a commercial simulator.....anyone input on this last wildely sweeping statement.
Plus we are in danger of hijacking this thread too so maybe this should go elsewhere????
Barry
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how long on average till you get to captain..? I know it's based on seniority, the airline and so on, but there should be an average number of years...
would be good to know to compare industries, salary levels and number of years needed in order to get to a particular salary level.
AO
would be good to know to compare industries, salary levels and number of years needed in order to get to a particular salary level.
AO
Supercharged PPRuNer
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If you're after lots of money, I'd recommend a career in finance or prostitution. Given the amount of money you'll spend just to qualify as a pilot, it will be a long time before you see any kind of profit.
Time to command varies enormously. At my airline (large regional carrier) there are genuine command prospects within 3 years. For legacy carriers with long histories and large pension schemes (such as British Airways) it could be more like 10 years.
Time to command varies enormously. At my airline (large regional carrier) there are genuine command prospects within 3 years. For legacy carriers with long histories and large pension schemes (such as British Airways) it could be more like 10 years.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Mmm prostitution now there's an idea
Global defence company senior scientist/engineer 7 years £31k pa part contributed pension (but thats dwindling by the month - age discriminatiion laws my butt)
B
Global defence company senior scientist/engineer 7 years £31k pa part contributed pension (but thats dwindling by the month - age discriminatiion laws my butt
)B
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[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Mmm prostitution now there's an idea
This is a very interesting thread and as a wannabe it's been an eye-opener.
Let’s not lower the tone by referring to the world’s oldest profession, however after the amount of money i am about to spend a bout as a pimp to pay of the loans might not be too bad
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Firstly I wish everyone the best of luck finding that first job. I have been rather lucky and landed my first airline job very soon after finishing training. I'm in my early 20's and although I had to dish out the money for a TR, I am getting paid a lot more than most of my friends do.
People are always comparing flying to becoming a Dr/Lawyer/engineer etc, but there is no way I would ever trade it for that, even if the money is better !
To put the training costs in perspective, a good friend of mine has just spent 50,000GBP for a masters degree.
Hang in there everyone, it can happen ! I've seen it.
Will I be happy in 15 years ? no idea !
People are always comparing flying to becoming a Dr/Lawyer/engineer etc, but there is no way I would ever trade it for that, even if the money is better !
To put the training costs in perspective, a good friend of mine has just spent 50,000GBP for a masters degree.
Hang in there everyone, it can happen ! I've seen it.
Will I be happy in 15 years ? no idea !
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even as a Capatin you'd still have to commute to airports all the time, work long hours and pass your medicals. that is ofcourse if you ever made it to Captaincy (much better chance than winning lottery for qualified pilots). 
PPRuNe Handmaiden
That's the really depressing thing about flying turboprops. The pay. Every thing else is great. Many sectors, interesting approaches, bases usually small enough to know every one. Usually pretty social too. But, the pay sucks and when there's loans etc to pay off, it really sucks.
While today was an entertaining day, I am paid quite well
for the amount of days I am expected to work per annum.
But, the pay sucks and when there's loans etc to pay off, it really sucks. While today was an entertaining day, I am paid quite well
for the amount of days I am expected to work per annum.
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Great post lads. I've just gotten my PPL Heli and was intending on transferring to fixed wing and going the whole hog to ATPL(f) via the modular route. Now, that Ive actually gotten my PPL Im having second thoughts!!!! Is it just me or is there an awful lot of doom & gloom about, too many new pilots, not enough jobs etc etc
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There is a lot of doom and gloom, but when people are happy with what they have achieved they have a habbit of keeping it to themselves.
The problems people are suffering are the same problems in many other industries, the main problem is that these people have spent their own money getting there so it's even more of a kick.
I would prefer to fly Helis for a living, but there aren't as many jobs available as airline flying the now.
The problems people are suffering are the same problems in many other industries, the main problem is that these people have spent their own money getting there so it's even more of a kick.
I would prefer to fly Helis for a living, but there aren't as many jobs available as airline flying the now.
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AMS, yeah many jobs going but I'm not in the UK! It isn't my dream job but it's a good one too. But with all this gloomy talk about flying it makes one think twice about going for it beyond the PPL level or not, which is a big pity =(
AO
AO
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Well I've cast my vote now. Great thread BTW.
For me neither a good nor a bad choice, but if anything I'm happy with what I've done. It has certainly been very intersting to read threads from those people whose login names I recognise over the years and recall posts from their training or instructing days who now fly with airlines and feel that it hasn't really been worth it. They have confirmed for me what I have been thinking for a year or so now. I've come this far now, check all the boxes (perhaps apart from my age) and have getting on for 700 hours but really feel that working for an airline isn't for me anymore. To be honest, I just can't see it being worth it. I'm sure I'd enjoy the flying, certainly to begin with anyway, but it's all the bullsh*t that goes along with it, not least airlines that expect you to pay for TR's, uniforms, you name it ! I definitely feel it's a young mans game. I could go on and on but really many people have articulated their own experiences in this thread better than I can already. Just reading it all makes me confirm my decision not to continue 'begging' airlines to take me on ! None have invited me to interview yet so I take the hint and perhaps ironically it's all been for the best it's happened that way anyway ! Do I really want to work for an airline that expects you to be at their beck and call 24 hours, changes rosters at a whim, long hours, few weekends off etc, for what ? 18 -24k !! As another poster has already pointed out, everyone's situation is different and for me I earn good wad, more than many captains and I get more 'free' flying than I can cope with and in many ways I am therefore fortunate in that regard. I love flying and will so long as I have a medical fly, and it is for that reason I'm not bitter about getting the fATPL and thus for me neither a good nor a bad decision, if anything a good decision as I feel a much better pilot for it !!
If I can leave you with one thought ...........please don't pay for TR's. It is in my view the single most destructive reason that T&C's have deteriorated. I can understand why people are tempted and do it, but really .......just imagine for a moment, if every single person refused to pay for a TR, hell no, let's extend that further, all of a sudden nobody signed up to do commercial training. How long do you think airlines would begin to get twitchy and start offering to pay for TR's or sponsor cadets ?? We reap what we sow !!
Need a reminder of what I'm talking about, check out the link that is currently running. Remember this is for an air taxi operation for crying out loud and probably paying less per year net than they expect the guy to fork out for the TR !!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=327851
For me neither a good nor a bad choice, but if anything I'm happy with what I've done. It has certainly been very intersting to read threads from those people whose login names I recognise over the years and recall posts from their training or instructing days who now fly with airlines and feel that it hasn't really been worth it. They have confirmed for me what I have been thinking for a year or so now. I've come this far now, check all the boxes (perhaps apart from my age) and have getting on for 700 hours but really feel that working for an airline isn't for me anymore. To be honest, I just can't see it being worth it. I'm sure I'd enjoy the flying, certainly to begin with anyway, but it's all the bullsh*t that goes along with it, not least airlines that expect you to pay for TR's, uniforms, you name it ! I definitely feel it's a young mans game. I could go on and on but really many people have articulated their own experiences in this thread better than I can already. Just reading it all makes me confirm my decision not to continue 'begging' airlines to take me on ! None have invited me to interview yet so I take the hint and perhaps ironically it's all been for the best it's happened that way anyway ! Do I really want to work for an airline that expects you to be at their beck and call 24 hours, changes rosters at a whim, long hours, few weekends off etc, for what ? 18 -24k !! As another poster has already pointed out, everyone's situation is different and for me I earn good wad, more than many captains and I get more 'free' flying than I can cope with and in many ways I am therefore fortunate in that regard. I love flying and will so long as I have a medical fly, and it is for that reason I'm not bitter about getting the fATPL and thus for me neither a good nor a bad decision, if anything a good decision as I feel a much better pilot for it !!
If I can leave you with one thought ...........please don't pay for TR's. It is in my view the single most destructive reason that T&C's have deteriorated. I can understand why people are tempted and do it, but really .......just imagine for a moment, if every single person refused to pay for a TR, hell no, let's extend that further, all of a sudden nobody signed up to do commercial training. How long do you think airlines would begin to get twitchy and start offering to pay for TR's or sponsor cadets ?? We reap what we sow !!
Need a reminder of what I'm talking about, check out the link that is currently running. Remember this is for an air taxi operation for crying out loud and probably paying less per year net than they expect the guy to fork out for the TR !!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=327851