So where are all the jobs then?
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Stop Whinging, I'll Give You A Job.
I've read alot about how hard you've all worked to get there, but now it's time to work and fly. I need FI's if you want to put those fantastic skills of yours to good use and train the next generation of AV8'rs.
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This is largely my current dilemna. While I would actually want to come back to instructing after I have put some decent money away from the airlines, I find myself now wondering whether to pay for an integrated course and risk needing to pay for an FI course as well if I don't get a FO job, or bank on the FI rating being a reality and initially save money by going modular.
Decisions decisions.
Decisions decisions.
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Mr Horgy, re post 202:
What are you going to do when you're no longer 22 and living at home? What happens when it's you with the house, car and expensive wife and you need a new job that demands a buying a TR which some young pup who's only 22 and living at home is willing to pay for????
Jeez lads, wake up, look at the big picture. You're cutting your own throats.
Some of which destroy your future, some of which don't You've admitted that the TR route is not sustainable, so why not try a different route that protects your future?
What are you going to do when you're no longer 22 and living at home? What happens when it's you with the house, car and expensive wife and you need a new job that demands a buying a TR which some young pup who's only 22 and living at home is willing to pay for????
Jeez lads, wake up, look at the big picture. You're cutting your own throats.
Different people will have different routes into the industry.
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Camel,
When I am not 22, and not living at home, I will examine my options and assess the risk of investing in my future against the risk imposed on my family. I wouldn't dare dream of having kids unless I was in a stable, enjoyable job anyway.
I don't call banging my head against a wall a career path, if I have to stump up a little more money than so be it.
When I am not 22, and not living at home, I will examine my options and assess the risk of investing in my future against the risk imposed on my family. I wouldn't dare dream of having kids unless I was in a stable, enjoyable job anyway.
I don't call banging my head against a wall a career path, if I have to stump up a little more money than so be it.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Rookie Bondi, if you're willing to relocate, then do so. 
Sending resumes may work if you're a Grade 1 with Twin training approval etc.. Read through the Dununda forums for the tips and tricks for the big drive.
Sending resumes may work if you're a Grade 1 with Twin training approval etc.. Read through the Dununda forums for the tips and tricks for the big drive.
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Sounds like a bitches paradise on here!
Everyone has there own opinions and what they want to do, dont try and tell some one they are wrong cause they are 22 years old, the lad sounds pretty switched on to me and knows what he wants and its crertainly not a bitching session off someone!
Everyone has there own opinions and what they want to do, dont try and tell some one they are wrong cause they are 22 years old, the lad sounds pretty switched on to me and knows what he wants and its crertainly not a bitching session off someone!
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Mr. Horgy
Mr Horgy your "so be it" is the prevailing reason/attitude of even the companies are short on pilots, they have "BUY A JOB" schemes in the business.
So is NOT "so be it", besides, if I am your boss I will be like Yeeeaaa the next renewal we are gonna shake this Horgy for another few thousand dollars or his TR will expire, you know he swallows he already did it once.....he probably like it too
You get my "drift"?
So is NOT "so be it", besides, if I am your boss I will be like Yeeeaaa the next renewal we are gonna shake this Horgy for another few thousand dollars or his TR will expire, you know he swallows he already did it once.....he probably like it too
You get my "drift"?
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Please don't confuse my "so be it" as a "i'm giving up this is inevitable" type attitude. Unfortunately I wasn't one of those lucky people to afford to go to Oxford and so an interview didn't land on my lap. Approximately 80 airlines have my CV and I have had ONE reply - "Thanks we'll contact you if we're scraping the barrel" etc..
My attitude is well if something has to be done then it's better to go and do it - I refer you to my previous comments about weighing up the pros and cons. If an airline invites me to fly for them but I smell a rat then I won't take it pure and simple, it's an informed decision. That's one of the reasons I trawl Pprune amongst other sources for information on employers.
I still stand by any decisions I make, whether people like them or not. Once I am installed in a job (touch wood it happens) then I will be campaigning and pressuring where possible to make companies pay for TR's as much as possible. But unfortunately, that day is past now.
My attitude is well if something has to be done then it's better to go and do it - I refer you to my previous comments about weighing up the pros and cons. If an airline invites me to fly for them but I smell a rat then I won't take it pure and simple, it's an informed decision. That's one of the reasons I trawl Pprune amongst other sources for information on employers.
I still stand by any decisions I make, whether people like them or not. Once I am installed in a job (touch wood it happens) then I will be campaigning and pressuring where possible to make companies pay for TR's as much as possible. But unfortunately, that day is past now.
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STS,
Not at all, I value everyones opinions, even if I don't see eye to eye with them.
Your quite correct in making a CV stand out - I have two years operational cabin crew experience on Boeing & Airbus, flying Long and Short Haul. I've taken part in aviation charity events (hey I met Jeremy Spake on one!) and I have immediate availability worldwide. It's never enough.
What it tells me about the aviation industry is that it needs a good kick in the backside with regards to recruiting. I, nor my family, nor any other person I know can believe the system of speculative CV's and shady recommendations from flight schools that goes on in the industry - if it was any other then it'd have been sorted a long time ago. it's very disheartening, and that's why (although I don't endorse it) I also have to examine the possibility of having to pay for a type rating.
Not at all, I value everyones opinions, even if I don't see eye to eye with them.
Your quite correct in making a CV stand out - I have two years operational cabin crew experience on Boeing & Airbus, flying Long and Short Haul. I've taken part in aviation charity events (hey I met Jeremy Spake on one!) and I have immediate availability worldwide. It's never enough.
What it tells me about the aviation industry is that it needs a good kick in the backside with regards to recruiting. I, nor my family, nor any other person I know can believe the system of speculative CV's and shady recommendations from flight schools that goes on in the industry - if it was any other then it'd have been sorted a long time ago. it's very disheartening, and that's why (although I don't endorse it) I also have to examine the possibility of having to pay for a type rating.
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Slightly true, but you say it as if they have it a lot easier than trainee pilots, I can only explain to you the process of becoming a doctor (dentist is similar), I dont know anything about lawers though.
- 5 or 6 years of medical school, of which is unpaid. About 50% of this is training in the clinical environment. Most medical students leave with between 40 - 50k of debt. Student is now a 'Dr'.
- 2 years as an RHO/SHO in a hospital, this is paid. How much do you think? its about 15 - 25k, an experienced SHO will earn approx 40k. The working hours are terrible, most work 50 to 60 hours pw + doing on-call for little extra cash.
- A further 5 to 6 years training if the Dr wants to specialise in a certain field, i.e. become a 'consultant'. Earnings as a 'Registrar' 50k+, Earnings as a 'Consultant' 100k+.
To move into General Practice, its a further 2-3 years training as a 'GP Registar' then you would become a GP. A salaried GP earns between 60k and 80k, and a partner GP would earn 90k + (dont believe what you read or watch on the TV, GP's do not earn 250k per year, there's literally a hand full that do and this is due to them having more than one role)
To summarise both careers -
Doctor
- 10 to 15 years training.
- Average starting wage 20k.
- Average final wage 90k.
- Working hours good during the later stages of the career, work bank hols, xmas etc.
- Easier to get the first job, but uncertancy of future in some fields.
- Debt after training 35k+
- No ongoing training or revalidation once qualified.
Airline Pilot
- 2 years training (Including TR)
- Average starting wage 20k (TP) 35k (Jet)
- Working hours similar to a doctor.
- Hard to get the first job. Industry is not stable, may loose job at anytime.
- Possible debt 60k+ (Integrated) 30k+ (Modular)
- Ongoing training and tests every 5 - 6 months.
Now looking at the details it is a lot easier to train to be a pilot, and generaly the starting wages are A LOT better than a Doctor (remember the Doctor doesnt earn for the first 5 - 6 years, if luck a pilot will earn after the first 18 months to 2 years)
The working hours are not very nice for either job, probably better for a Doctor once they have an established career.
The job security isnt as good for a pilot, doctors wont loose their jobs if the become ill for example.
The average salary for a Doctor is 85k and for a pilot 75k (Times Newspaper Website)
I know its not very nice when you're in debt, worked hard on your training, and sitting there with no job. But before comparing with a Doctors job, they have had a lot harder journey than you, and earn relativley the same throughout their careers.
Good Luck
P.S. Im not a Doctor.
- 5 or 6 years of medical school, of which is unpaid. About 50% of this is training in the clinical environment. Most medical students leave with between 40 - 50k of debt. Student is now a 'Dr'.
- 2 years as an RHO/SHO in a hospital, this is paid. How much do you think? its about 15 - 25k, an experienced SHO will earn approx 40k. The working hours are terrible, most work 50 to 60 hours pw + doing on-call for little extra cash.
- A further 5 to 6 years training if the Dr wants to specialise in a certain field, i.e. become a 'consultant'. Earnings as a 'Registrar' 50k+, Earnings as a 'Consultant' 100k+.
To move into General Practice, its a further 2-3 years training as a 'GP Registar' then you would become a GP. A salaried GP earns between 60k and 80k, and a partner GP would earn 90k + (dont believe what you read or watch on the TV, GP's do not earn 250k per year, there's literally a hand full that do and this is due to them having more than one role)
To summarise both careers -
Doctor
- 10 to 15 years training.
- Average starting wage 20k.
- Average final wage 90k.
- Working hours good during the later stages of the career, work bank hols, xmas etc.
- Easier to get the first job, but uncertancy of future in some fields.
- Debt after training 35k+
- No ongoing training or revalidation once qualified.
Airline Pilot
- 2 years training (Including TR)
- Average starting wage 20k (TP) 35k (Jet)
- Working hours similar to a doctor.
- Hard to get the first job. Industry is not stable, may loose job at anytime.
- Possible debt 60k+ (Integrated) 30k+ (Modular)
- Ongoing training and tests every 5 - 6 months.
Now looking at the details it is a lot easier to train to be a pilot, and generaly the starting wages are A LOT better than a Doctor (remember the Doctor doesnt earn for the first 5 - 6 years, if luck a pilot will earn after the first 18 months to 2 years)
The working hours are not very nice for either job, probably better for a Doctor once they have an established career.
The job security isnt as good for a pilot, doctors wont loose their jobs if the become ill for example.
The average salary for a Doctor is 85k and for a pilot 75k (Times Newspaper Website)
I know its not very nice when you're in debt, worked hard on your training, and sitting there with no job. But before comparing with a Doctors job, they have had a lot harder journey than you, and earn relativley the same throughout their careers.
Good Luck
P.S. Im not a Doctor.
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Just thought i'd share my good news with everyone. Having gained my CPL/IR almost three and a half years ago I have now got a job on a turboprop. I was a modular student and currently have 450 hrs TT. I can't say who I will be working for yet (sworn to secrecy) but if I can get this job then most pilots with a bit of sense can too!
I am delighted with my success and all my hard work and my positive attitude has paid off. I am extremely proud of myself to get this job and will continue to work hard and enjoy the flying.
Oh and I don't have to pay for the type rating either!
I am delighted with my success and all my hard work and my positive attitude has paid off. I am extremely proud of myself to get this job and will continue to work hard and enjoy the flying.
Oh and I don't have to pay for the type rating either!
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Dentists, lawyers and doctors don't have to do it and they probably out earn us.
Guess he's quite handy to have in case of an illness on board too !
Anyway, I am no airline pilot, nor a doctor, so perhaps not really entitled to comment, but on the subject of the debt and training costs, I just wanted to say that is not always necessary to end up in huge debt.
I am nowhere near the end of my training, in fact I only got a PPL plus about a 100 hours. Which is nothing really, compared to what awaits. But by having a decent job and financing my own training as I go along so far I haven't raked up a penny of debt, in fact I have put some savings aside which could already pay for my CPL. Oh and even bought myself a (reasonably priced) car.
By the time I get there (with no rush) I'll probably have saved enough to pay half IR. I can probably get to my training debt free in another 3 years.
Sounds like a long time but it is not really if you enjoy every step of it. I enjoy flying and I don't care if it's in an Ikarus, a spamcan or (one day) in a more sophisticated machine. They all do the same thing : lift off and (hopefully) stay aloft !
This modern culture of want it all and now has changed every lifetime ambition into a get on with it quick kind of job. It's X Factor and straight to number 1 in the charts at the age of 18 for singers, and 12 months from 0 hours to Airline for pilots.
I still believe that, although it's a money game, deep down at the front line there are still gonna be human beings flying, recruiting and interviewing which are gonna appreciate and value the patience of individuals which have gone all the way driven by the passion for a lifetime goal rather than desperate to get there before everybody else.
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Aviator, Congratulations on the new post, although I don't understand why people refuse to state who they are working for, as if opening the floodgates would somehow remove them from their post.
The very same people who moan we don't stick together and stand up against type ratings are the ones who clam up when a job comes sniffing their way - and I don't point that at you i'm just generalising, but it's just an opportune moment.
The very same people who moan we don't stick together and stand up against type ratings are the ones who clam up when a job comes sniffing their way - and I don't point that at you i'm just generalising, but it's just an opportune moment.
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All Aboard!
Well after reading numerous posts on this thread I would just like to introduce myself wheresryan2, I have just qualifed (260TT), im not going to moan about not finding a job beacuse as I can read there a plenty of fine pilots on this thread who have been waiting alot longer, just wanted to say im jumping aboard the unemployed boat! Good luck everyone!
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Despite all the doom and gloom on this thread I can confirm that there are jobs out there.
I was interviewed and sent for type rating all within a very short period (2 weeks) just last month. My background is mixed, modular training over 4 years, different schools for each module, FI for 1 year 1000 TT and only 30 hrs multi. I had no contacts within the company to help get the job, only a little bit of luck and a good interview and flight test.
To anyone seeking the first job, I don’t believe the market is as good as everyone seems to claim, but the key to my success I would put down to the FI rating (which greatly improved handling skills and knowledge) and developing a good reputation through networking.
250 TT and a fatpl still seems (I think) and little bit optimistic to walk straight into a FO position, even if you have a pocket full of type rating cash.
Keep the faith, if you want something enough to spend £40,0000 on, then 6 to 12 months job hunting (or whatever it takes) should be nothing.
just my thoughts....
I was interviewed and sent for type rating all within a very short period (2 weeks) just last month. My background is mixed, modular training over 4 years, different schools for each module, FI for 1 year 1000 TT and only 30 hrs multi. I had no contacts within the company to help get the job, only a little bit of luck and a good interview and flight test.
To anyone seeking the first job, I don’t believe the market is as good as everyone seems to claim, but the key to my success I would put down to the FI rating (which greatly improved handling skills and knowledge) and developing a good reputation through networking.
250 TT and a fatpl still seems (I think) and little bit optimistic to walk straight into a FO position, even if you have a pocket full of type rating cash.
Keep the faith, if you want something enough to spend £40,0000 on, then 6 to 12 months job hunting (or whatever it takes) should be nothing.
just my thoughts....
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New jobs website
Try www.aviationrecruitment.co.uk . Seems theres new jobs on there everyday, mainly for pilots and engineers.
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Oh Brother Wannabee
Hi 38-year-old-chartered-accountant,
Looks like we have the same profile (only I'm a lawyer). I've been doing a lot of investigating. Have you looked into the US market? What have you decided since your last posting?
Looks like we have the same profile (only I'm a lawyer). I've been doing a lot of investigating. Have you looked into the US market? What have you decided since your last posting?