Astraeus
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Do not think that once you have 500 hours on type and a type rating that you can walk in anywhere. Most agencies require at least two thousand hours as well as the TR and hours on type.
Be warned - people think that having the hours on type is the golden hello - it is not as there are insurance requirements to consider as well as minimum hours for licence issue in foreign countries.
Oh and please list those contracting agencies wanting tr and time on type on A320??
Be warned - people think that having the hours on type is the golden hello - it is not as there are insurance requirements to consider as well as minimum hours for licence issue in foreign countries.
Oh and please list those contracting agencies wanting tr and time on type on A320??
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Well, have this as a thought....
I phoned STORM AVIATION today and had a quick chat.
The story seems to be that if you have a lot (i.e. 5000 hours+), a couple of thousand COMMAND hours and a few hundred COMMAND hours on type, then there may be jobs out there for contract work.
Forget it if you are an FO......
FO's are ten a penny, always have been, always will be.
It is only that this time round people will pay for ratings without the guarantee of a full time job.
DISCUSS.
I phoned STORM AVIATION today and had a quick chat.
The story seems to be that if you have a lot (i.e. 5000 hours+), a couple of thousand COMMAND hours and a few hundred COMMAND hours on type, then there may be jobs out there for contract work.
Forget it if you are an FO......
FO's are ten a penny, always have been, always will be.
It is only that this time round people will pay for ratings without the guarantee of a full time job.
DISCUSS.
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So why, if there are so many FO's do these agencies publish job's for FO's with general requirements like 1500 to 3000 TT and 500 on type.
Are these hoax jobs?
Cheers Joe
Are these hoax jobs?
Cheers Joe
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likely story
personally I have a lot of difficulty with the 95 % story, no doubt it came from the spin doctors at ashtrays r us, sorry, I forgot one of the mods from pprune works there so lets not get down and dirty!!!
Fact....I did the 737 rating with astreaus and was base checked on the 737-300, There were six of us on the course all of whom were promised line training as part of the rating.Of the six not one of us managed to get a single sector from them. four of us are employed at the moment, two never found the elusive first job, but continue to look. Imagine what it feels like to pay for a 737 rating, only to be let down by the organisation who promised you the moon. So for the two chaps who did not find work, they returned to thier old jobs with a serious loan and one had to take a weekend job to make his repayments. Meanwhile back at the ranch, all of us with jobs were asked to forward a photo, in uniform for the photo board at the astreaus office. Guess how many sent them a pic......zero.
so if the bods in astreaus want to tell the wannabees that 95% of the folks who did a type rating managed to get a job, fine. Those of us who have been there have our own thoughts on the subject!!!! For the chaps wondering where to go to get a rating. Answer= spend your money in your local pub, at least you will have the liver transplant to boast about!!!!!
Fact....I did the 737 rating with astreaus and was base checked on the 737-300, There were six of us on the course all of whom were promised line training as part of the rating.Of the six not one of us managed to get a single sector from them. four of us are employed at the moment, two never found the elusive first job, but continue to look. Imagine what it feels like to pay for a 737 rating, only to be let down by the organisation who promised you the moon. So for the two chaps who did not find work, they returned to thier old jobs with a serious loan and one had to take a weekend job to make his repayments. Meanwhile back at the ranch, all of us with jobs were asked to forward a photo, in uniform for the photo board at the astreaus office. Guess how many sent them a pic......zero.
so if the bods in astreaus want to tell the wannabees that 95% of the folks who did a type rating managed to get a job, fine. Those of us who have been there have our own thoughts on the subject!!!! For the chaps wondering where to go to get a rating. Answer= spend your money in your local pub, at least you will have the liver transplant to boast about!!!!!
Seems odd VHF1. The deal you speak of contains line training flights. If they were not forthcoming then surely you have a legal right to redress. Or is there more your story?
You can lament self sponsored type ratings, you can discuss the relevant strengths and weaknesses of different ones. You have to accept though that the great majority of those that have gone through the Astraeus/Bond scheme are now working using that rating.
Cheers
WWW
You can lament self sponsored type ratings, you can discuss the relevant strengths and weaknesses of different ones. You have to accept though that the great majority of those that have gone through the Astraeus/Bond scheme are now working using that rating.
Cheers
WWW
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AH64
The last 3 adverts I have from Flight Intl for A320 FOs list the following:
Vietnam Airlines: 500 Hours
Qatar: 500 hours
Valuair: 500 hours
So there is your list... 100% hit rate. In fact, I should also add BA (100 sectors)...
The last 3 adverts I have from Flight Intl for A320 FOs list the following:
Vietnam Airlines: 500 Hours
Qatar: 500 hours
Valuair: 500 hours
So there is your list... 100% hit rate. In fact, I should also add BA (100 sectors)...
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Arrowhead
As mentioned in my previous post though the Vietnam and Qatar jobs need around 1500 to 3000 hours total time. What I am talking about is this belief that low hour guys can walk into a job with 500 hours on type. That is BS as most if not all need (apart from BA) more than 1500 hour total time. Therefore what is the point in having a type rating and 500 on type if insurance and country requirements need more?
I have not seen the valuair job - anybody got a link?
Just seen the valuair thing - apologies - on their website it just mentions airbus type rating? Surely not?
Any info on their pay etc?
As mentioned in my previous post though the Vietnam and Qatar jobs need around 1500 to 3000 hours total time. What I am talking about is this belief that low hour guys can walk into a job with 500 hours on type. That is BS as most if not all need (apart from BA) more than 1500 hour total time. Therefore what is the point in having a type rating and 500 on type if insurance and country requirements need more?
I have not seen the valuair job - anybody got a link?
Just seen the valuair thing - apologies - on their website it just mentions airbus type rating? Surely not?
Any info on their pay etc?
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It might pay everybody to remember that anybody who attempts a type-rating ( regardless of who is paying for it ) has no guarantee that they’ll pass the course ( it being much dependent upon ones ability and application ).
Similarly, a TRTO’s modus operandi is to train you ( and make a profit doing it ), not to employ you – where I’ll admit that this is probably a bit of a brutal description of how it works, but it is true for all commercial TRTO’s and training organisations ( wherein the PPRuNe Fund is in an entirely different bracket
)
Furthermore, just so we’re clear about it; some people do indeed dropout of, and / or fail, Type Rating courses ( where the course, as I’m sure you’ll agree VHF1, is not easy ) just as some ( read, ‘many’ ) people fail at various steps of the process in their attempt to ultimately obtain paid employment as a pilot.
E.g. some (many ) fail to obtain their PPL, ATPL exams, GFT, IR, medical, etc. but where they no doubt started out with a vision of themselves someday sitting in the cockpit of a Scrog's Heavy Metal Wonder Jet with a four bar epaulet on each shoulder.
Indeed it is truly amazing how many people are prepared to invest huge sums of time and money ( myself included ) into an activity which has no certainty at its end – where getting to paid employment as a pilot probably has more to do with luck and who you know than anything to do with first time passes in this, that, or the other, or indeed having a Type Rating ( albeit which for some, e.g. VHF1 plus other folks on his TR course, it has helped ).
Yep, anybody who has paid for his or her own training spends their money hoping that it'll be a good investment - but veritably however, and all together, please repeat after me:
“THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES WITH ANY OF IT !”
VHF1 – taking on the points you raise ( albeit without being fully privy to all the facts ):
You say you attended and completed the B737 Type Rating with Astraeus - wherein is this not what you contracted with them to deliver for you, and that you received ?
I.e. you wanted a Type Rating, and you got one, plus you say that you now have a job as a result. QED – so what’s your problem ?
W.r.t ‘promised line training’ - One would hazard a guess it was more likely that Astraeus would have said something akin to 'we promise line training will be available'.... wherein one would have to pay for it ( just as a good number of people are doing at this very moment ), assuming one wanted it and remembering that it is not actually part of the required syllabus for a Type Rating, i.e. it is an optional extra.
W.r.t. ‘Imagine what it feels like to pay for a 737 rating,’ ( which – as you have said above - is indeed what was delivered for yourself and your TR colleagues ) ‘only to be let down by the organisation who promised you the moon.’ – err, what precisely do you mean when you say ‘promised you the moon’ ?
Again – and at risk of repeating myself – from the start to the finish, getting oneself into paid employment as a pilot is A Huge Gamble; and self-funding a type-rating - with or without line training
- is (imho) just about as risky as it gets !
Encore: “THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES WITH ANY OF IT !"
Similarly, a TRTO’s modus operandi is to train you ( and make a profit doing it ), not to employ you – where I’ll admit that this is probably a bit of a brutal description of how it works, but it is true for all commercial TRTO’s and training organisations ( wherein the PPRuNe Fund is in an entirely different bracket
)Furthermore, just so we’re clear about it; some people do indeed dropout of, and / or fail, Type Rating courses ( where the course, as I’m sure you’ll agree VHF1, is not easy ) just as some ( read, ‘many’ ) people fail at various steps of the process in their attempt to ultimately obtain paid employment as a pilot.
E.g. some (many ) fail to obtain their PPL, ATPL exams, GFT, IR, medical, etc. but where they no doubt started out with a vision of themselves someday sitting in the cockpit of a Scrog's Heavy Metal Wonder Jet with a four bar epaulet on each shoulder.
Indeed it is truly amazing how many people are prepared to invest huge sums of time and money ( myself included ) into an activity which has no certainty at its end – where getting to paid employment as a pilot probably has more to do with luck and who you know than anything to do with first time passes in this, that, or the other, or indeed having a Type Rating ( albeit which for some, e.g. VHF1 plus other folks on his TR course, it has helped ).
Yep, anybody who has paid for his or her own training spends their money hoping that it'll be a good investment - but veritably however, and all together, please repeat after me:
“THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES WITH ANY OF IT !”
VHF1 – taking on the points you raise ( albeit without being fully privy to all the facts ):
You say you attended and completed the B737 Type Rating with Astraeus - wherein is this not what you contracted with them to deliver for you, and that you received ?
I.e. you wanted a Type Rating, and you got one, plus you say that you now have a job as a result. QED – so what’s your problem ?
W.r.t ‘promised line training’ - One would hazard a guess it was more likely that Astraeus would have said something akin to 'we promise line training will be available'.... wherein one would have to pay for it ( just as a good number of people are doing at this very moment ), assuming one wanted it and remembering that it is not actually part of the required syllabus for a Type Rating, i.e. it is an optional extra.
W.r.t. ‘Imagine what it feels like to pay for a 737 rating,’ ( which – as you have said above - is indeed what was delivered for yourself and your TR colleagues ) ‘only to be let down by the organisation who promised you the moon.’ – err, what precisely do you mean when you say ‘promised you the moon’ ?
Again – and at risk of repeating myself – from the start to the finish, getting oneself into paid employment as a pilot is A Huge Gamble; and self-funding a type-rating - with or without line training
- is (imho) just about as risky as it gets !Encore: “THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES WITH ANY OF IT !"
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Pah
Why does there seem to be this them and us view of type ratings.
All of those who are flying for airlines seem to be saying don't do it; you are eroding T&C for all people working these jobs at the moment.
All of those who can raise the capital on the outside, look across at the greener grass on the employed pilots side and think that they would happily sell thier grandmothers for an FOs position even if it is flying rubber dog s**t out of HK.
Those inside forget that those on the outside are trying to stay solvent whilst doing anything that they can to earn money.
I know of many, many instructors who pay thier mortgages with credit cards hoping that the elusive job comes before the credit runs out.
I know many instructors who owe over £70k in loans, credit, etc not just due to the course prices but also due to having to live for the length of time taken to do the course and then live after it earning £150per month on a bad month knowing that it didn't even cover the petrol to get them to the airfield to fly the poorly maintained piece of junk that scabair inc calls an airframe, in poorly radar covered airspace full of occasional aviators seemingly trying thier best to kill themselves and others by thier ineptitude.
That being the case is it in any way surprising that if their appears to be a way out of the mire people will stand on others shoulders, heads and or faces to get there.
You complain about the T&C for you what about for those who don't know whether they will be bankrupt in a month or so. Don't moralize about what you don't contend with.
Those who are unemployed are entitled to complain about lack of interviews jobs etc and can take action by buying type ratings, selling themselves to prostitution or selling thier grandmothers if they wish.
Those who are employed are entitled to complain about thier T&C but they can also vote with thier feet. If the terms are that bad then quit, there are plenty who will take your places. If you feel that strongly about the T&C get on to BALPA and go on strike and/or organize something better.
Some of you are starting to sound like old women who don't like Tony Blair if you don't like it vote it out or change it but don't blame the guy who wants to feed his/her family for doing anything to get that dream (reality or not) job.
Supply and demand has been here for some time. If you are not part of the solution then you know that you are part of the problem because what you think is inaction is actually the artillery for the opposition.
They (the bean counters) rely on your malaise, fear and dependancy to get the product they have. There are no airlines that can fly aircraft without pilots (yet). We should all remember that...
Ladies and gentleman spoofers, I believe that is me 
All of those who are flying for airlines seem to be saying don't do it; you are eroding T&C for all people working these jobs at the moment.
All of those who can raise the capital on the outside, look across at the greener grass on the employed pilots side and think that they would happily sell thier grandmothers for an FOs position even if it is flying rubber dog s**t out of HK.
Those inside forget that those on the outside are trying to stay solvent whilst doing anything that they can to earn money.
I know of many, many instructors who pay thier mortgages with credit cards hoping that the elusive job comes before the credit runs out.
I know many instructors who owe over £70k in loans, credit, etc not just due to the course prices but also due to having to live for the length of time taken to do the course and then live after it earning £150per month on a bad month knowing that it didn't even cover the petrol to get them to the airfield to fly the poorly maintained piece of junk that scabair inc calls an airframe, in poorly radar covered airspace full of occasional aviators seemingly trying thier best to kill themselves and others by thier ineptitude.
That being the case is it in any way surprising that if their appears to be a way out of the mire people will stand on others shoulders, heads and or faces to get there.
You complain about the T&C for you what about for those who don't know whether they will be bankrupt in a month or so. Don't moralize about what you don't contend with.
Those who are unemployed are entitled to complain about lack of interviews jobs etc and can take action by buying type ratings, selling themselves to prostitution or selling thier grandmothers if they wish.
Those who are employed are entitled to complain about thier T&C but they can also vote with thier feet. If the terms are that bad then quit, there are plenty who will take your places. If you feel that strongly about the T&C get on to BALPA and go on strike and/or organize something better.
Some of you are starting to sound like old women who don't like Tony Blair if you don't like it vote it out or change it but don't blame the guy who wants to feed his/her family for doing anything to get that dream (reality or not) job.
Supply and demand has been here for some time. If you are not part of the solution then you know that you are part of the problem because what you think is inaction is actually the artillery for the opposition.
They (the bean counters) rely on your malaise, fear and dependancy to get the product they have. There are no airlines that can fly aircraft without pilots (yet). We should all remember that...
Ladies and gentleman spoofers, I believe that is me
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..... Whatever one decides to do, e.g. pay for a type-rating, or not..... and whatever side of the fence one presently sits w.r.t. being employed as a pilot ( or not ), and regardless of whether one believes that self-funded TR’s dilute the T&C’s of those in employment..... always remember this:
“THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES WITH ANY OF IT !”
Just because one might choose to spend tens of thousands of £’s in pursuit of that elusive airline job, do not be too upset when ones dreams come crashing down and all one's ultimately left with is an almost worthless license and logbook(s) full of memories and dreams.
The whole process is a venture that’s loaded to the hilt with risk, but it is one which was willingly embarked upon.
That said, it is a harsh reality that not everybody who starts out upon the rocky road that is commercial aviation will make it into the front seats of a jet airliner - though some will come very very close, and for them the drop from being so near the summit is all the greater than for those whom have fallen off earlier – wherein having a type rating, but then not being able to secure employment, must be about as big a fall as it’s possible to get.
In any event, and perhaps as your parents told you, “Life is not fair” and, veritably, whilst “you pays yer money and takes yer choice” how much one spends is only of passing consequence w.r.t. guaranteeing one paid employment as a pilot – wherein some people need to grow-up and cop-on to real-world commercialism.
Buying a type-rating is definitely not a time to be wearing rose-tinted glasses – it is a venture that is not without risk, albeit one which for some it pays off.... though for others it does not ( with all the consequences therein !
).
Hopefully ramming the message home: “THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES WITH ANY OF IT !”
“THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES WITH ANY OF IT !”
Just because one might choose to spend tens of thousands of £’s in pursuit of that elusive airline job, do not be too upset when ones dreams come crashing down and all one's ultimately left with is an almost worthless license and logbook(s) full of memories and dreams.
The whole process is a venture that’s loaded to the hilt with risk, but it is one which was willingly embarked upon.
That said, it is a harsh reality that not everybody who starts out upon the rocky road that is commercial aviation will make it into the front seats of a jet airliner - though some will come very very close, and for them the drop from being so near the summit is all the greater than for those whom have fallen off earlier – wherein having a type rating, but then not being able to secure employment, must be about as big a fall as it’s possible to get.
In any event, and perhaps as your parents told you, “Life is not fair” and, veritably, whilst “you pays yer money and takes yer choice” how much one spends is only of passing consequence w.r.t. guaranteeing one paid employment as a pilot – wherein some people need to grow-up and cop-on to real-world commercialism.
Buying a type-rating is definitely not a time to be wearing rose-tinted glasses – it is a venture that is not without risk, albeit one which for some it pays off.... though for others it does not ( with all the consequences therein !
).Hopefully ramming the message home: “THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES WITH ANY OF IT !”
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I would be very cautious about doing an A320 rating with Astraeus, just from the point of view they are only established as a 737 trainer.
If you are 'lucky' enough to be on their first few A320 courses then just be prepared to put up with alot, I mean a ton load, of cr@p whilst they get the courses up and running.
Caveat Emptor.............
If you are 'lucky' enough to be on their first few A320 courses then just be prepared to put up with alot, I mean a ton load, of cr@p whilst they get the courses up and running.
Caveat Emptor.............
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gmaa - Astraeus already have approval to conduct A320 type-ratings, i.e. the infrastrucure required already exists and has, accordingly, been approved by the UK CAA; and, furthermore, some pilots have already partaken of said such A320 type-rating.
Nb. Click here to a link that shows the UK CAA's list of approved TRTO's and their Type Rating training acreditations ( Astraeus' approvals can be found on page 21 of that document ). The CAA will not grant TRTO status unless a company is able to demonstrate that it can conduct its courses to the satisfaction and standards expected by the regulator - needless to say, there's an awful lot more to getting, and keeping, a TRTO Approval than might be understood by the layman or student.
That said, the option for 'line training' aboard Astraeus' Airbus aircraft is not available as yet
..... now there's a 'rumour' !
Nb. Click here to a link that shows the UK CAA's list of approved TRTO's and their Type Rating training acreditations ( Astraeus' approvals can be found on page 21 of that document ). The CAA will not grant TRTO status unless a company is able to demonstrate that it can conduct its courses to the satisfaction and standards expected by the regulator - needless to say, there's an awful lot more to getting, and keeping, a TRTO Approval than might be understood by the layman or student.
That said, the option for 'line training' aboard Astraeus' Airbus aircraft is not available as yet
..... now there's a 'rumour' !
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Astraeus - anyone know?
Has any got any idea of the Astraeus plans for aircraft numbers/ pilot recruitment for next year? Will they be taking any First Officers from their SSTR's?
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Puritan If read my mail closely I said 'established' , I know that Astreaus will have all the CAA ticks in boxes to do the TRT but if they are just begining it I would not want to be on the first courses as I can imagine they will not run smoothly........
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Puritan,
Interesting post, but I thought Astraeus/Bond/Global whatever had already run A320 courses, as one of my former students told me he did his course through them, before going off to Italy for a job.
As far as I recall he did the sim training in Cranebank and the base training on some executive A319 ( he grinned for about a week after that)
Feel free to correct me, so that I can smack the youg whippersnapper.
Interesting post, but I thought Astraeus/Bond/Global whatever had already run A320 courses, as one of my former students told me he did his course through them, before going off to Italy for a job.
As far as I recall he did the sim training in Cranebank and the base training on some executive A319 ( he grinned for about a week after that)
Feel free to correct me, so that I can smack the youg whippersnapper.
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I just heard that there have been problems - one guy paid up fully (incl base check), and then had to sort base check out and pay for it himself. Astraeus could not get the base check done. Subsequently he has been finding it hard to get any money back (ie for base check). No other reports yet, but you have been warned...
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This is untrue. Two candidates came and completed their course in full and as planned. Both completed Base Training together on their first attempt and to a high standard.