Astraeus
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flyer75
How the f**k do I know? I do know that it's twin hours in a jet at £90 ph which is 40% of the cost at my local flying club in a seneca. I also know that 100 hours of flying jets will put me ahead of anyone without 100 hours in jets in the job queue.
My view after several years on the fringes of aviation is that there are not enough jobs for all the wannabe pilots out there, so some people see this and decide to persue another career, others are happy to gain a PPL and fly for fun, and others take the chance of doing a fATPL in the HOPE not expectation of gaining a job. Now some of these people are going to end up disappointed because they will NEVER get a flying job. Did your training organisation tell you that when you spunked 45k on your CAP509? I may go on and fly jets for a living, who knows. If I don't it isn't the end of the world and if I do the line training I will still have a 737 on my licence.
RTO & Chuffer Chadley
Haven't you already bought yourself a job by paying for a fATPL?
How does anyone become MORE qualified if you are ATPL/MCC/Class 1 medical et al already.
Just suppose you have a degree and self-fund an MBA to gain quicker promotion ahead of other people in another career - have you done something wrong to get ahead of people without an MBA? Get real.
How the f**k do I know? I do know that it's twin hours in a jet at £90 ph which is 40% of the cost at my local flying club in a seneca. I also know that 100 hours of flying jets will put me ahead of anyone without 100 hours in jets in the job queue.
My view after several years on the fringes of aviation is that there are not enough jobs for all the wannabe pilots out there, so some people see this and decide to persue another career, others are happy to gain a PPL and fly for fun, and others take the chance of doing a fATPL in the HOPE not expectation of gaining a job. Now some of these people are going to end up disappointed because they will NEVER get a flying job. Did your training organisation tell you that when you spunked 45k on your CAP509? I may go on and fly jets for a living, who knows. If I don't it isn't the end of the world and if I do the line training I will still have a 737 on my licence.
RTO & Chuffer Chadley
Haven't you already bought yourself a job by paying for a fATPL?
How does anyone become MORE qualified if you are ATPL/MCC/Class 1 medical et al already.
Just suppose you have a degree and self-fund an MBA to gain quicker promotion ahead of other people in another career - have you done something wrong to get ahead of people without an MBA? Get real.
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type
HI to you mole!
Hmm...you must be familiar to Oxford integrated school as you mentionned this CAP something .
Just to let you know I have been to Oxford as a MODULAR for the ATPL theory...**** I should have paid some more maybe???
All my Air Time was built in the States as a Metro and Be1900s single pilot captain flying freight in the tornado alley...that is the MidWest...so please dont take me for one of those spoiled brats from integrated who get a job because of DAD or because they decided to spend 60K to get 200 hours...on the other hand i know a few who are clever blokes..
By the way I did buy a type ...737 that is ...barely to get the right to fly in Europe...
Hmm...you must be familiar to Oxford integrated school as you mentionned this CAP something .
Just to let you know I have been to Oxford as a MODULAR for the ATPL theory...**** I should have paid some more maybe???
All my Air Time was built in the States as a Metro and Be1900s single pilot captain flying freight in the tornado alley...that is the MidWest...so please dont take me for one of those spoiled brats from integrated who get a job because of DAD or because they decided to spend 60K to get 200 hours...on the other hand i know a few who are clever blokes..
By the way I did buy a type ...737 that is ...barely to get the right to fly in Europe...
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Moley, Moley, Moley.......
You actually make my point for me. In our society, it is customary to educate ourselves to gain a social or professional advantage at our own cost. The difference between purchasing an fATPL and a type rating is that an fATPL is a general qualification, whereas a type-rating is a very specific one. In fact, the type rating, by its nature, gets very close to being specific to individual companies.
When we all worked hard and spent hard at school and university (where appropriate), we were all working towards qualifications that would stand us in better stead in the workplace or for an area of work. You would not consider taking on a degree that only, say, one-quarter of the companies in the subject area recognise?
Besides all this, paying for your own type rating, and especially paying the money to the company (or their close associates) that you intend to work for, is the beginning of a process of degrading your own morale.
Ideally, in fact, I still think that a CPL should be about the end of the cost to a student. But I recognise that that really isn't realistic.
By the way, tell your bank manager to 'get real'
Ciao for Now
CC
You actually make my point for me. In our society, it is customary to educate ourselves to gain a social or professional advantage at our own cost. The difference between purchasing an fATPL and a type rating is that an fATPL is a general qualification, whereas a type-rating is a very specific one. In fact, the type rating, by its nature, gets very close to being specific to individual companies.
When we all worked hard and spent hard at school and university (where appropriate), we were all working towards qualifications that would stand us in better stead in the workplace or for an area of work. You would not consider taking on a degree that only, say, one-quarter of the companies in the subject area recognise?
Besides all this, paying for your own type rating, and especially paying the money to the company (or their close associates) that you intend to work for, is the beginning of a process of degrading your own morale.
Ideally, in fact, I still think that a CPL should be about the end of the cost to a student. But I recognise that that really isn't realistic.
By the way, tell your bank manager to 'get real'
Ciao for Now
CC
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FlyPuppy,
Your comments were right on the money! Having read your post I felt as if I had written it. I am sure the majority of qualified (f)ATPLs feel the same way. Even if one decided to go down the slippery slope of paying for a type-rating, you would find that your basic wage (possibly 12-14k) is woefully inadequate to even cover your loans let alone basic costs of living.
I know for one, that I would probably be concentrating on where I'm going to find the money to stay alive, instead of flying the a/c. I assume that it's difficult enough to get to grips with flying a new a/c type for the first few months. The last thing we need is the worry of knowing that you don't even have the price of the petrol to get you to and from work.
I appreciate the other points in favour of paying for a type-rating may appear valid. These are desperate days and most of us would do almost anything to recover out basic costs and fulfill our ambitions to fly for a living.
As Mr Spencer said, "there are old Pilots and there are bold Pilots, but no OLD - BOLD Pilots, hmmmm!!"
You never know, maybe Senior Management may have a change of heart and realise that we are PEOPLE and not just statistics. We live in hope, etc,etc.
Cheers
Your comments were right on the money! Having read your post I felt as if I had written it. I am sure the majority of qualified (f)ATPLs feel the same way. Even if one decided to go down the slippery slope of paying for a type-rating, you would find that your basic wage (possibly 12-14k) is woefully inadequate to even cover your loans let alone basic costs of living.
I know for one, that I would probably be concentrating on where I'm going to find the money to stay alive, instead of flying the a/c. I assume that it's difficult enough to get to grips with flying a new a/c type for the first few months. The last thing we need is the worry of knowing that you don't even have the price of the petrol to get you to and from work.
I appreciate the other points in favour of paying for a type-rating may appear valid. These are desperate days and most of us would do almost anything to recover out basic costs and fulfill our ambitions to fly for a living.
As Mr Spencer said, "there are old Pilots and there are bold Pilots, but no OLD - BOLD Pilots, hmmmm!!"
You never know, maybe Senior Management may have a change of heart and realise that we are PEOPLE and not just statistics. We live in hope, etc,etc.
Cheers
aka Capt PPRuNe
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Well, well! Just discovered this thread yesterday and it's taken me till today to read through it and digest it.
I have read some tosh from time to time but some of the posters to this thread really need to assess their mental state and the pressures that they are going to face if they ever expect to get a coveted jet job. Whilst I have always advocated that it is not advisable to just go out and buy a jet type rating in the expectation that it will guarantee a job, I have never said it should be dismissed outright.
There are some people who, no matter how good they are and how much they can afford will never get a job flying a jet because they just can't convince the interviewer that they are bearable enough to be stuck next to for X number of hours at a time. Whether they have paid for a jet type rating or not, it doesn't matter. Thankfully, they are few and far between but they are out there.
What amazes me is the comments from a few posters who have no experience of undertaking any type rating, never mind a jet type rating, yet they feel they are in a position to suggest that the Bond Aviation B737 type rating course is in any way inferior to other type ratings and that those that have completed the course are somehow less qualified to operate in the RHS under the supervision of a line training captain. It just goes to show the ignorance of a few people who are out there, spending huge amounts of money to obtain their professional licence in the belief that the airlines owe them a job once they have obtained their initial qualification. They are going to be very disappointed. My advice is that they don't let that attitude seep through should they be fortunate enough to get as far as an initial interview. They show their ignorance by assuming that Bond Aviation are only training pilots for Astraeus!
Anyone who has started on the tortuous path of attaining their professional licence without seriously considering the pitfalls and consequences of the fickle nature of the airline business is going to be seriously disappointed. There will be times when despair will set in and doubts will cast shadows on the enthusiasm that originally gave the impetus to start in the first place. You only have to read the posts by Flypuppy to get a flavour of that. I think it is fairly safe though to say that most of us who have been through the self-improver route have at some stage felt the same way. I know that Flypuppy has the added pressures of a young family which don't help his situation and the delays in getting the coveted blue book have only exacerbated his view that it may all be a waste of time and money. All I can say is that this is not the time to throw it all away and the anger you are feeling about the 'pay for type rating' and the perception that this somehow reduces your chances of getting a job are not warranted. I'm sure that those of us that have met you would agree that spending eight or more hours cooped up on the flight deck with you wouldn't be too tortuous.
The problem I see here, based on the posts in this thread is that there are some who have spent all their money on getting to the point where they are qualified to hold a professional licence and are now realising that the airlines are not hiring many inexperienced people at the moment. Also, there are some who feel that it is not fair that a few people are trying to jump the queue by buying a type rating and going straight into the right seat of a jet without 'climbing the ladder' of prop, turbo-prop, regional-jet...
Unfortunately, there are only a very few airlines who still type rate all their F/O's. They are the larger, more established operators who already have in-house TRTO approval. All the others have to either farm out their training to the likes of GECAT, CTC, Bond or else require applicants to already have the type and some experience in the first place. Things have certainly changed since 9/11 and many of the larger airlines that still type rate their pilots in-house now only offer new hires temporary summer contracts. Whilst this is still better than having to pay for your own type rating, there are still only a very few jobs on offer and most of those go to pilots with a couple of years experience on turbo-props or are ex-RAF. During the leaner winter months these pilots are free to go and try and to get hired by the likes of easyJet and Ryanair, assuming they have the right type of rating.
I remember when I was starting out. I had my fATPL and about 750 hours of which about 60 were ME and the rest were SE. It was late 1993 and the country was in recession. Airlines were not hiring. What to do? I decided to buy a Bandeirante type rating. Based on some research I found out that there were at least six operators of the type. In the course of trying to find one that would provide the manuals so I could study for the written exam and trying to find one that would or could provide an aircraft and trainer to prepare for the 1179, I got to talk to the right people. When I finally completed the 1179 I was fortunate to be offered freelance work as an F/O and I was lucky to be on the ladder. The pay certainly didn't even begin to repay the costs of getting to that stage but it certainly felt good to be sitting in that seat and gaining valuable experience.
Not long after I started flying the Bandit, many of the captains I was flying with decided to pay for their own B757 or B737 type ratings and many of them landed jobs with the IT carriers or British Midland who were selling the B737 rating within months of completing them. Were they wrong to do so? They already had turboprop jobs. I don't think so. They were in a position to take advantage of the coming boom. The rest of us had to plod along gaining valuable experience.
I next had to pay for part of my next type rating. I went out and did the written exams for the HS748 (back in the days when you could) so that I'd be in a prime position should Emerald Airways start hiring. Within a few months they did and because I had the written exams out of the way and I had a years experience of flying turboprops, I was in a position to go straight into the 1179 training. I was bonded for that but because I'd put myself in a position to be ready and available when hiring started I was fortunate to be taken on. After that came the late 90's when the jet operators were hiring again and I was in a position to be hired and type rated on the B757 with Air 2000. Those were the days when there was a lot of movement. Things were so good that even the likes of Air 2000 were training a few ab-initio students every year.
Unfortunately, that boom came to an end, as they always do. Now we are back to similar days back in the mid 90's when everything appeared stagnant and there didn't appear to be much hope for wannabes, especially those that had only just finished their long and expensive fATPL training. Should a newly licenced fATPL raise the money for a B737 type rating? Personally, I would and always have advised against it. Three reasons. One, many airlines will still require you to do some additional training to learn their SOP's and may prefer to do their own selection and observation during the type rating course. Two, Smaller turboprop and regional jet operators may take the attitude that because you already have a heavier jet type on your licence you may not be prepared to hang around for very long should there be a job offer on the heavier metal type. Three, you may not be the 'type' of person that can get a job with a heavier metal type of operation.
None of the above detracts from the fact that Bond Aviation is a fully licenced TRTO licenced and regulated by the CAA to conduct type rating training. They provide that training to third parties and can also provide training to individuals if they have excess capacity who are in a position to pay for it should they think they have the ability to complete the course. The training provided to individuals is not guaranteed to gain them employment. Should there be some exceptional students and there is a requirement for additional F/O's in Astraeus then they may be offered a temporary contract and their line training is taken up by Astraeus. Others, who are not offered a contract but wish to add the line training component to their experience will have to subsidise it. There is a choice.
The implied dishonourable activity of Astraeus by a few posters on here just goes to show the naivety that there is out there amongst a few of the fATPL's and it is unfortunate that sometimes that naivety shows itself when it comes to the interview stage for that first job. Yes, feel aggrieved that there are some people who are in a position to raise the money to buy a type rating but you can't blame the airlines for taking advantage of it. If it's any consolation, the numbers of pilots taking advantage of this in the UK is very small and those that do take this route are losing out on the valuable experience of their turboprop apprenticeship. The very few who are truly exceptional, and they really are impressive, are offered jobs.
We don't live in an ideal, utopian world and there is no government funded National Pilot Training Academy (RAF excepted) to cosset you along the very expensive and arduous training and academic study required to get the licence and there is no government funded national airline to take you straight into the right hand seat of a nice big jet. We live in a dynamic, capitalist society where market forces prevail and until there is another boom (and it will come) type ratings for sale will be a fact of life. That doesn't make them evil or bad. For some they will be a good investment. For others they will be an expensive mistake. For others they will be an unattainable item on their wish list. This is the price we pay for living in this country in this day and age.
No one forced you to take the risk of training for your fATPL and no one is forcing you to pay for a type rating to get a job. To somehow justify forking out for the fATPL one the one hand but to demand that no one should pay anything else after that on the other shows a deluded sense of the way the world works. Beancounters rule at the moment. Many know the price of everything but the value of nothing. Unfortunately, there appear to be a few fATPL's out there who think along similar lines but are unable to accept the facts.
You don't require a B737 type rating to get a job with Astraeus. Just ask the five cadets we took on last year. Until there is a big expansion though, don't expect to get a response to your CV if you don't have the type on it. Same can be said of most airlines at the moment. Hopefully next year we will see a few more cadets joining us as the current ones have proven to be an exceptional group. Those new cadets will be type rated by Bond Aviation and line trained by Astraeus and I dare any of the few misfits who think they know it all and can't resist denouncing Bond/Astraeus to say to the cadets faces that they are not professional and trained to the highest standards.
I have read some tosh from time to time but some of the posters to this thread really need to assess their mental state and the pressures that they are going to face if they ever expect to get a coveted jet job. Whilst I have always advocated that it is not advisable to just go out and buy a jet type rating in the expectation that it will guarantee a job, I have never said it should be dismissed outright.
There are some people who, no matter how good they are and how much they can afford will never get a job flying a jet because they just can't convince the interviewer that they are bearable enough to be stuck next to for X number of hours at a time. Whether they have paid for a jet type rating or not, it doesn't matter. Thankfully, they are few and far between but they are out there.
What amazes me is the comments from a few posters who have no experience of undertaking any type rating, never mind a jet type rating, yet they feel they are in a position to suggest that the Bond Aviation B737 type rating course is in any way inferior to other type ratings and that those that have completed the course are somehow less qualified to operate in the RHS under the supervision of a line training captain. It just goes to show the ignorance of a few people who are out there, spending huge amounts of money to obtain their professional licence in the belief that the airlines owe them a job once they have obtained their initial qualification. They are going to be very disappointed. My advice is that they don't let that attitude seep through should they be fortunate enough to get as far as an initial interview. They show their ignorance by assuming that Bond Aviation are only training pilots for Astraeus!
Anyone who has started on the tortuous path of attaining their professional licence without seriously considering the pitfalls and consequences of the fickle nature of the airline business is going to be seriously disappointed. There will be times when despair will set in and doubts will cast shadows on the enthusiasm that originally gave the impetus to start in the first place. You only have to read the posts by Flypuppy to get a flavour of that. I think it is fairly safe though to say that most of us who have been through the self-improver route have at some stage felt the same way. I know that Flypuppy has the added pressures of a young family which don't help his situation and the delays in getting the coveted blue book have only exacerbated his view that it may all be a waste of time and money. All I can say is that this is not the time to throw it all away and the anger you are feeling about the 'pay for type rating' and the perception that this somehow reduces your chances of getting a job are not warranted. I'm sure that those of us that have met you would agree that spending eight or more hours cooped up on the flight deck with you wouldn't be too tortuous.
The problem I see here, based on the posts in this thread is that there are some who have spent all their money on getting to the point where they are qualified to hold a professional licence and are now realising that the airlines are not hiring many inexperienced people at the moment. Also, there are some who feel that it is not fair that a few people are trying to jump the queue by buying a type rating and going straight into the right seat of a jet without 'climbing the ladder' of prop, turbo-prop, regional-jet...
Unfortunately, there are only a very few airlines who still type rate all their F/O's. They are the larger, more established operators who already have in-house TRTO approval. All the others have to either farm out their training to the likes of GECAT, CTC, Bond or else require applicants to already have the type and some experience in the first place. Things have certainly changed since 9/11 and many of the larger airlines that still type rate their pilots in-house now only offer new hires temporary summer contracts. Whilst this is still better than having to pay for your own type rating, there are still only a very few jobs on offer and most of those go to pilots with a couple of years experience on turbo-props or are ex-RAF. During the leaner winter months these pilots are free to go and try and to get hired by the likes of easyJet and Ryanair, assuming they have the right type of rating.
I remember when I was starting out. I had my fATPL and about 750 hours of which about 60 were ME and the rest were SE. It was late 1993 and the country was in recession. Airlines were not hiring. What to do? I decided to buy a Bandeirante type rating. Based on some research I found out that there were at least six operators of the type. In the course of trying to find one that would provide the manuals so I could study for the written exam and trying to find one that would or could provide an aircraft and trainer to prepare for the 1179, I got to talk to the right people. When I finally completed the 1179 I was fortunate to be offered freelance work as an F/O and I was lucky to be on the ladder. The pay certainly didn't even begin to repay the costs of getting to that stage but it certainly felt good to be sitting in that seat and gaining valuable experience.
Not long after I started flying the Bandit, many of the captains I was flying with decided to pay for their own B757 or B737 type ratings and many of them landed jobs with the IT carriers or British Midland who were selling the B737 rating within months of completing them. Were they wrong to do so? They already had turboprop jobs. I don't think so. They were in a position to take advantage of the coming boom. The rest of us had to plod along gaining valuable experience.
I next had to pay for part of my next type rating. I went out and did the written exams for the HS748 (back in the days when you could) so that I'd be in a prime position should Emerald Airways start hiring. Within a few months they did and because I had the written exams out of the way and I had a years experience of flying turboprops, I was in a position to go straight into the 1179 training. I was bonded for that but because I'd put myself in a position to be ready and available when hiring started I was fortunate to be taken on. After that came the late 90's when the jet operators were hiring again and I was in a position to be hired and type rated on the B757 with Air 2000. Those were the days when there was a lot of movement. Things were so good that even the likes of Air 2000 were training a few ab-initio students every year.
Unfortunately, that boom came to an end, as they always do. Now we are back to similar days back in the mid 90's when everything appeared stagnant and there didn't appear to be much hope for wannabes, especially those that had only just finished their long and expensive fATPL training. Should a newly licenced fATPL raise the money for a B737 type rating? Personally, I would and always have advised against it. Three reasons. One, many airlines will still require you to do some additional training to learn their SOP's and may prefer to do their own selection and observation during the type rating course. Two, Smaller turboprop and regional jet operators may take the attitude that because you already have a heavier jet type on your licence you may not be prepared to hang around for very long should there be a job offer on the heavier metal type. Three, you may not be the 'type' of person that can get a job with a heavier metal type of operation.
None of the above detracts from the fact that Bond Aviation is a fully licenced TRTO licenced and regulated by the CAA to conduct type rating training. They provide that training to third parties and can also provide training to individuals if they have excess capacity who are in a position to pay for it should they think they have the ability to complete the course. The training provided to individuals is not guaranteed to gain them employment. Should there be some exceptional students and there is a requirement for additional F/O's in Astraeus then they may be offered a temporary contract and their line training is taken up by Astraeus. Others, who are not offered a contract but wish to add the line training component to their experience will have to subsidise it. There is a choice.
The implied dishonourable activity of Astraeus by a few posters on here just goes to show the naivety that there is out there amongst a few of the fATPL's and it is unfortunate that sometimes that naivety shows itself when it comes to the interview stage for that first job. Yes, feel aggrieved that there are some people who are in a position to raise the money to buy a type rating but you can't blame the airlines for taking advantage of it. If it's any consolation, the numbers of pilots taking advantage of this in the UK is very small and those that do take this route are losing out on the valuable experience of their turboprop apprenticeship. The very few who are truly exceptional, and they really are impressive, are offered jobs.
We don't live in an ideal, utopian world and there is no government funded National Pilot Training Academy (RAF excepted) to cosset you along the very expensive and arduous training and academic study required to get the licence and there is no government funded national airline to take you straight into the right hand seat of a nice big jet. We live in a dynamic, capitalist society where market forces prevail and until there is another boom (and it will come) type ratings for sale will be a fact of life. That doesn't make them evil or bad. For some they will be a good investment. For others they will be an expensive mistake. For others they will be an unattainable item on their wish list. This is the price we pay for living in this country in this day and age.
No one forced you to take the risk of training for your fATPL and no one is forcing you to pay for a type rating to get a job. To somehow justify forking out for the fATPL one the one hand but to demand that no one should pay anything else after that on the other shows a deluded sense of the way the world works. Beancounters rule at the moment. Many know the price of everything but the value of nothing. Unfortunately, there appear to be a few fATPL's out there who think along similar lines but are unable to accept the facts.
You don't require a B737 type rating to get a job with Astraeus. Just ask the five cadets we took on last year. Until there is a big expansion though, don't expect to get a response to your CV if you don't have the type on it. Same can be said of most airlines at the moment. Hopefully next year we will see a few more cadets joining us as the current ones have proven to be an exceptional group. Those new cadets will be type rated by Bond Aviation and line trained by Astraeus and I dare any of the few misfits who think they know it all and can't resist denouncing Bond/Astraeus to say to the cadets faces that they are not professional and trained to the highest standards.
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Danny
Thank you for your insight.
For anyone interested, in the last 6 weeks I have sent out 20 CVs. Ten of these were in my own name and gave a true account of my hours & experience (fATPL and approx. 1000 hrs/ 100 multi). I received two standard letters of rejection.
Ten were sent out with a fictitious name and experience of about two thirds of my own, but with an ATR 42 type rating and ONE hour on type. These were sent to UK/Irish ATR operators (about six) and operators of other turboprops. SO FAR I have received two interview offers and one operator has twice sent me an application to fill out that (assuming I fill the boxes correctly) comes with a letter stating I will be interviewed in the next six months. And they don't even have an ATR!!!
Now all I need is a quick name change and an ATR 42 type rating.....
Thank you for your insight.
For anyone interested, in the last 6 weeks I have sent out 20 CVs. Ten of these were in my own name and gave a true account of my hours & experience (fATPL and approx. 1000 hrs/ 100 multi). I received two standard letters of rejection.
Ten were sent out with a fictitious name and experience of about two thirds of my own, but with an ATR 42 type rating and ONE hour on type. These were sent to UK/Irish ATR operators (about six) and operators of other turboprops. SO FAR I have received two interview offers and one operator has twice sent me an application to fill out that (assuming I fill the boxes correctly) comes with a letter stating I will be interviewed in the next six months. And they don't even have an ATR!!!
Now all I need is a quick name change and an ATR 42 type rating.....
Mole - whilst I can't really condone a little bit of time wasting it *is* an interesting exercise and thank you for posting the results here. By doing so you allow us to more clearly ascertain the current potential return on self funded type ratings.
I see the whole issue as being the first step on the road to recovery. Two, or even one, year ago virtually nobody was doing or offering self sponsored type ratings as there was no point. Now they are. In the future there will be no need and eventually lots of airlines will be sponsoring in some way or at least competing with each other to hire.
Roll on those times. As Danny has clearly illustrated - the industry has been here before. It will probably happen again. The trick is to be positioned as best as you can for the upturn, get hired early in the swing, then be in a position of some seniority and experience for the next downturn - thereby holding onto your job.
Its a crazy business. If you want security go and work in the public sector. If you want to sip coffee - at oh my God its early -as you power through the stratus to the dawn sunshine - well, stick at it.
Good luck,
WWW
I see the whole issue as being the first step on the road to recovery. Two, or even one, year ago virtually nobody was doing or offering self sponsored type ratings as there was no point. Now they are. In the future there will be no need and eventually lots of airlines will be sponsoring in some way or at least competing with each other to hire.
Roll on those times. As Danny has clearly illustrated - the industry has been here before. It will probably happen again. The trick is to be positioned as best as you can for the upturn, get hired early in the swing, then be in a position of some seniority and experience for the next downturn - thereby holding onto your job.
Its a crazy business. If you want security go and work in the public sector. If you want to sip coffee - at oh my God its early -as you power through the stratus to the dawn sunshine - well, stick at it.
Good luck,
WWW
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Mad_Dog,
I wish you the best of luck and hope the circa £20k you spent works out to be worth it. You obviously aren't short of a bob or too but I still maintain that it is not a risk worth taking.
Airlines recuiting low hours pilots onto jets prefer to type rate their own pilots with their own SOPs. That is probably the reason why Ryannair have not jumped all over your application. I am not questioning the training at Bond and I am sure it is to an excellent standard.
I just think that Astraeus are manipulating and exploiting guys desperate for a job. No doubt my comments will be incur the wrath of some of the moderators here but that said their airline does have a vested interest in the scheme doesn't it ?
I wish you the best of luck and hope the circa £20k you spent works out to be worth it. You obviously aren't short of a bob or too but I still maintain that it is not a risk worth taking.
Airlines recuiting low hours pilots onto jets prefer to type rate their own pilots with their own SOPs. That is probably the reason why Ryannair have not jumped all over your application. I am not questioning the training at Bond and I am sure it is to an excellent standard.
I just think that Astraeus are manipulating and exploiting guys desperate for a job. No doubt my comments will be incur the wrath of some of the moderators here but that said their airline does have a vested interest in the scheme doesn't it ?
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Malaysia
Age: 42
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And if you go through the B737 type rating course with Bond and complete the 100 hours of line training on a, let say NG type where does it take you in the recruitment process?
Where are the people now who passed the program successfully?
How many are now flying the B737 and how many aren´t ?
Where are the people now who passed the program successfully?
How many are now flying the B737 and how many aren´t ?
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Astraeus selection
Does anyone have any info that might help me on the pre selection for the astraeus airline diploma? i.e the interview and the psychometric tests etc.
Thanx
Thanx
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lancashire
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I did the selection in December; we had a sim check and a personality question paper to fill in, no interview though. If I can give you any advise it would be to learn the pitch and power settings for the 737 and brush up on your scan, I used Microsoft flight sim (Dream Fleet), I found it very helpful and accurate. Astraeus also give you a sim profile script. The personality question paper you can’t prepare for just be as honest as possible. All in all it was a good day.
Try and enjoy it, after all you are paying £1000.
Try and enjoy it, after all you are paying £1000.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UK
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raspberry. Did you go ahead with the scheme. If so did you do the line training with NG differences ???
Are you now employed a s aresult???
It would be great to hear you response.
cheers joe
Are you now employed a s aresult???
It would be great to hear you response.
cheers joe
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I am also thinking about this scheme, indeed I have booked my assessment for March.
Any feedback from anybody who has been on the course, or done the assessment would be appreciated.
What do you do on the sim ride? Having flown nothing bigger than an Aztec I need to prepare the best I can.
Thanks
Mark
Any feedback from anybody who has been on the course, or done the assessment would be appreciated.
What do you do on the sim ride? Having flown nothing bigger than an Aztec I need to prepare the best I can.
Thanks
Mark