stop encouraging... (merged with 'Is there any hope')
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"As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions."
Does he(A320) elicit certain reactions or what?!
A320 keep them coming always good fun.
Does he(A320) elicit certain reactions or what?!
A320 keep them coming always good fun.
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A320,
I think you're right at some point.It is bulls.hit that every airline is asking you a TR and experience.I have a chance to get a CPL/IR and a fATPL at reasonable price,otherwise I wouldn't even think about getting it.
As it has been said 1000000 times,it is 'rich kids' job',but I hope it will change.
I don't suggest anyone to buy TR,it's airliner's duty to do for us...
I think you're right at some point.It is bulls.hit that every airline is asking you a TR and experience.I have a chance to get a CPL/IR and a fATPL at reasonable price,otherwise I wouldn't even think about getting it.
As it has been said 1000000 times,it is 'rich kids' job',but I hope it will change.
I don't suggest anyone to buy TR,it's airliner's duty to do for us...
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The other side of the argument
On the other hand there are many people in this industry who are broke and have had their lives destroyed by it....
A320rider is there to let you know that this is a fact... Its the counter argument
He is also quite amusing
A320rider is there to let you know that this is a fact... Its the counter argument
He is also quite amusing
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oh my god, it s all about me now, you project your frustration on me, so you can feel better.!!
why can you just be honest, and stop dreaming about a flying job.
when you invest 100'000 euro in a training, have you thought it would take 3-4 years to refund your training, and IF you are paid.
How many people are you going to encourage to follow this expensive path (aviation lottery)
Each time you encourage one of these young chaps,he jeopardizes his life and the life of his family. Many families are now in trouble with their bank. They have lost their home, lost their money...
and I am really fedup with your kiddy posts like :"follow you dream, if you don't you will never know...."this is so naive and so childish! why don't you say instead: "go ahead, if you don't find a job, I will pay you back!" , or "here the money for you".
you think you give good advise but you don't take any responsability.
I spoke with an airline manager last day , he told me he does not want people he did not train, want young chaps between 21-23 yeqrs old with 0 hour, and he has 3000 application every year, and he selects only 10-15 guys.
all Cv with hours go directly to the bin.
I am proposing to:
1- stop encouraging students to become an airline pilot.
2-stop telling them to buy for a type rating
3-stop telling them that flying a plane as a commercial pilot is fun
4-do not answer from wanabee questions
5-be just negative (as I am)and moan the best you can
6-be realistic and destroy overconfidence or even confidence.
7-tell the truth about you, and how hard it is.
8-etc
why can you just be honest, and stop dreaming about a flying job.
when you invest 100'000 euro in a training, have you thought it would take 3-4 years to refund your training, and IF you are paid.
How many people are you going to encourage to follow this expensive path (aviation lottery)
Each time you encourage one of these young chaps,he jeopardizes his life and the life of his family. Many families are now in trouble with their bank. They have lost their home, lost their money...
and I am really fedup with your kiddy posts like :"follow you dream, if you don't you will never know...."this is so naive and so childish! why don't you say instead: "go ahead, if you don't find a job, I will pay you back!" , or "here the money for you".
you think you give good advise but you don't take any responsability.
I spoke with an airline manager last day , he told me he does not want people he did not train, want young chaps between 21-23 yeqrs old with 0 hour, and he has 3000 application every year, and he selects only 10-15 guys.
all Cv with hours go directly to the bin.
I am proposing to:
1- stop encouraging students to become an airline pilot.
2-stop telling them to buy for a type rating
3-stop telling them that flying a plane as a commercial pilot is fun
4-do not answer from wanabee questions
5-be just negative (as I am)and moan the best you can
6-be realistic and destroy overconfidence or even confidence.
7-tell the truth about you, and how hard it is.
8-etc
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videogames for psy tests?
is it advised to play videogames before psytests.
what kind of videogames do you suggest, far cry?doom? donkeykong, pacman, star invaders? frog? flight simulator?
I will go back in my software box to look what I have and spend some hours to shoot to death some people.
what kind of videogames do you suggest, far cry?doom? donkeykong, pacman, star invaders? frog? flight simulator?
I will go back in my software box to look what I have and spend some hours to shoot to death some people.
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Anything that requires Hand Eye Co-ordination and if it's foot aswell that's got to be a bonus.
Maybe a combat flight sim - Hand/Eye Co-ordination plus the fluidity of the areial combat and everchanging scenarios might keep your mental assesment skills on par?
Maybe a combat flight sim - Hand/Eye Co-ordination plus the fluidity of the areial combat and everchanging scenarios might keep your mental assesment skills on par?
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I played a bit of Call of Duty 2 and MS Flight Sim 2004 prior to my tests.
FPS games are really good for your reactions, and try and play some games that use a joystick as some of the actual Pilot aptitude tests require the use of a joystick.
p.s. The most recent great game I have played was F.E.A.R. If you haven't already played it, check it out!
FPS games are really good for your reactions, and try and play some games that use a joystick as some of the actual Pilot aptitude tests require the use of a joystick.
p.s. The most recent great game I have played was F.E.A.R. If you haven't already played it, check it out!
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a320rider I feel you have some very good points but put them over in a very bad way.
Your current position is very concerning for me as a wannabe who is also putting up the family home as a guarantee to finance the training.
I agree with some of the previously mentioned postings that for a wannabe it is a very good idea to be in employment before starting training, in case you don't walk straight into an airline job.
I am currently an engineer and keeping my options open of going back into this field after training as a contingency plan. I couldn't live with myself if I wasn't able to afford the repayments of the loan I am taking out for training and the family home was at risk!
Your current position is very concerning for me as a wannabe who is also putting up the family home as a guarantee to finance the training.
I agree with some of the previously mentioned postings that for a wannabe it is a very good idea to be in employment before starting training, in case you don't walk straight into an airline job.
I am currently an engineer and keeping my options open of going back into this field after training as a contingency plan. I couldn't live with myself if I wasn't able to afford the repayments of the loan I am taking out for training and the family home was at risk!
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A320rider,
People decide of their career before coming to PPRuNe, we do not decide for them, nobody is hiding that the market has been rough for quite some time, that the licences are expensive as hell, that it is unacceptable to pay for a type rating and that certainly not everybody will get to sit in front of a glass cockpit.
After that, they decide to keep going, great i wish them good luck and i hope they got what it takes.
Hopefully they will assume their decision like real men.
You have been on the wrong web site all this time, this is PPRuNe not crybaby.com.
All your posts are only demonstrating that you don't have the right stuff for this career, i mean passion for everything flying, overcoming the technical difficulty of doing something only meant for birds.
You are here for the wrong reason: money prospect, social status, uniform privilege, you've demonstrated it in your past posts.
Why do you think airline pilots with career are waisting their time here discussing and providing info? passion for aviation.
If you had that, you would not be bitter at those young talented and passionate pilots who beat you at the job.
People decide of their career before coming to PPRuNe, we do not decide for them, nobody is hiding that the market has been rough for quite some time, that the licences are expensive as hell, that it is unacceptable to pay for a type rating and that certainly not everybody will get to sit in front of a glass cockpit.
After that, they decide to keep going, great i wish them good luck and i hope they got what it takes.
Hopefully they will assume their decision like real men.
You have been on the wrong web site all this time, this is PPRuNe not crybaby.com.
All your posts are only demonstrating that you don't have the right stuff for this career, i mean passion for everything flying, overcoming the technical difficulty of doing something only meant for birds.
You are here for the wrong reason: money prospect, social status, uniform privilege, you've demonstrated it in your past posts.
Why do you think airline pilots with career are waisting their time here discussing and providing info? passion for aviation.
If you had that, you would not be bitter at those young talented and passionate pilots who beat you at the job.
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A Flat Glass Screen Display
Yes becoming familiar with two screen displays is good
But do remember to put one on top of the other and then put the joy stick on the right hand side.
Familarity with running a computer is essential
And dont forget to look out of the office window
But do remember to put one on top of the other and then put the joy stick on the right hand side.
Familarity with running a computer is essential
And dont forget to look out of the office window
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A320 has had his trun, now I would like to say .....
In the UK as with any other FREE country you have a open run at what you want to do. If you want the most in life then it costs the most and not just in terms of money but effort, sacrifice, time and of course risk. Otherwise there would be no 'weight' to people's achievement, this isn't just a practical assumption but a soical law of common sense. Indeed all wannabes need to research their chosen career path but we shouldn't be discouraging them, that's just wrong it's like employment apatheid, in which case who chooses and judges on whom can pursue aviation or get's left behind? The flipside to this is that once you done adequate research and worked hard at the training then you shouldn't moan (well not persistently anyway) upon graduation when you can't get a job, you need to be grown up and realise that's just life. Engineers don't leave university and go straight onto build a damn or an award winning skyscraper, that'll come later in their career. However aviation has led many a wannabe into thinking that a jet job is the norm and not the exception which has a negative impact in terms realistic perceptions and distracts pilots from pursuing the more traditional (but still effective) paths of experience and hour building. Maybe the employment framework is such that it's trying to give fATPLs a message that you haven't quite finished yet, go and take the next step in something like Instruction, air taxi, etc and also be patient (remember the best things come to those who wait). Even after all that there will inevitably be some casualties that's just how it is in all walks of life.
As a brief exmaple my wife studied real hard as a Midwife in another country then married me
and now has to jump through hoops here in the UK to even become a general nurse all due to petty bureacracy. Whereas she sees a load of know nothing nurses brought in from other countries get jobs in hospitals. The difference being just a handful of months worth of experience between them and her BUT she doesn't spend her days complaining about how it's a conspiracy against her, she just gets on with.
In other words aviation is just as brutal in terms of a job market as any other industry, look at the queues of Hollywood wannabes that spend all their money on photo shoots, agents, travelling up and down the country for auditions whilst all the time losing out on alternative careers because they were just trying to get that lucky break? What about my father who studied as a Civil Engineer and upon graduatino couldn't find a job and has recently retired as a factory worker, didn't hear him moan, he just concentrated on other things in life. There are a million and one stories like this out there in the world in many sectors of employment but the difference is those who pick themselves up and those that just sit there complaining about how hard done by they have been. As an aviator never forget how privileged you are with or without a job, must I remind you of the majority in this world that are way, way behind you in terms of quality of life or should I say survival itself.
As for A320rider you disappoint me my friend, have you thought about going to live in Canada and spending a couple of years flying commuter aircraft and moving up through the industry that way? If you love aviation so much have you though about FI AND Ground instruction so that you come as a true instructor package? Maybe you do that for a year get the signoffs, lease a small aircraft and set yourself up in the instruction business. Then you'll get the chance to attract business by telling all your prospective customers that there are many jobs out there just waiting to be filled I doubt you'd complain then! There is always a 'next step' it just depends if you have the will inside and think you can make the jump.
What you CANNOT do in life is dictate what other people can or cannot do that is the kind of second rate comment that comes from a politician's mouth. 'Free to do whatever one chooses and responsible for each and everyone of those actions, that's the price of personal freedoms'.
As a brief exmaple my wife studied real hard as a Midwife in another country then married me
and now has to jump through hoops here in the UK to even become a general nurse all due to petty bureacracy. Whereas she sees a load of know nothing nurses brought in from other countries get jobs in hospitals. The difference being just a handful of months worth of experience between them and her BUT she doesn't spend her days complaining about how it's a conspiracy against her, she just gets on with. In other words aviation is just as brutal in terms of a job market as any other industry, look at the queues of Hollywood wannabes that spend all their money on photo shoots, agents, travelling up and down the country for auditions whilst all the time losing out on alternative careers because they were just trying to get that lucky break? What about my father who studied as a Civil Engineer and upon graduatino couldn't find a job and has recently retired as a factory worker, didn't hear him moan, he just concentrated on other things in life. There are a million and one stories like this out there in the world in many sectors of employment but the difference is those who pick themselves up and those that just sit there complaining about how hard done by they have been. As an aviator never forget how privileged you are with or without a job, must I remind you of the majority in this world that are way, way behind you in terms of quality of life or should I say survival itself.
As for A320rider you disappoint me my friend, have you thought about going to live in Canada and spending a couple of years flying commuter aircraft and moving up through the industry that way? If you love aviation so much have you though about FI AND Ground instruction so that you come as a true instructor package? Maybe you do that for a year get the signoffs, lease a small aircraft and set yourself up in the instruction business. Then you'll get the chance to attract business by telling all your prospective customers that there are many jobs out there just waiting to be filled
I doubt you'd complain then! There is always a 'next step' it just depends if you have the will inside and think you can make the jump.What you CANNOT do in life is dictate what other people can or cannot do that is the kind of second rate comment that comes from a politician's mouth. 'Free to do whatever one chooses and responsible for each and everyone of those actions, that's the price of personal freedoms'.
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Originally Posted by A320rider
what about a captain at easyjet applying at BA and who has to pass some tests(again).
if he is not accepted, does it mean easyjet have not "so good "pilots?.
.
if he is not accepted, does it mean easyjet have not "so good "pilots?.
.
Some place a high degree of emphasis upon technical skills and handling ability, with teamworking skills taken for granted or of a lower priority.
Others will attach a high degree of priority to how the pilot in question works within a team, believing that the key to being a good airline pilot is in what lies between your ears, rather than in absolute stick and rudder skills (although, of course, you need to be a competent pilot).
Most of all, they need to get a "feel" for whether or not that person will fit - they don't want square pegs to try to fit into round holes.
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Originally Posted by guimaraes
A320,
,it is 'rich kids' job',..
,it is 'rich kids' job',..
He got that job because he passed their selection - and he put himself in a position to go for that selection by sheer hard work and ability. For the record, he is one of the best "team" people that I have ever seen in my 10 years teaching LOFT, JOC and MCC - being a "rich kid" played no part in him getting where he is today.
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oh my god, it's all about me now,
Bottom line is, there are loads of opportunities for all out there - I dare say even you, but and here it comes........
You have to get off your arse and do something about it.
If, as seems to be happening, you fail test after test after test, ask yourself what you are doing wrong.
Now, be a good boy and go re-invent yourself like you always do, but this time come back as a positive type.
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Moggie,
Having spoke to him yesterday he is far from a rich kid. A normal hard working guy considerably poorer in cash terms but it has paid off and well deserved. There are jobs out there. You have to go and look. Don`t matter whether your mod or integrated, right place right time counts for a lot.
Having spoke to him yesterday he is far from a rich kid. A normal hard working guy considerably poorer in cash terms but it has paid off and well deserved. There are jobs out there. You have to go and look. Don`t matter whether your mod or integrated, right place right time counts for a lot.
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Originally Posted by moggiee
Way, way wide of the mark. Many of our customers are far from rich. In fact, most have to save hard from their earnings to obtain a CPL, IR, MCC and FIC. One such pilot has just, after 9 months as an FI, landed a job with easyjet.
He got that job because he passed their selection - and he put himself in a position to go for that selection by sheer hard work and ability. For the record, he is one of the best "team" people that I have ever seen in my 10 years teaching LOFT, JOC and MCC - being a "rich kid" played no part in him getting where he is today.
He got that job because he passed their selection - and he put himself in a position to go for that selection by sheer hard work and ability. For the record, he is one of the best "team" people that I have ever seen in my 10 years teaching LOFT, JOC and MCC - being a "rich kid" played no part in him getting where he is today.
There is much injustice in world of aviation,but if you like it very much you'll go through everything to reach your goal...
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Heard today about another friend who has a job. Low hours, no type rating, onto a 737. Just been having a beer with a friend who is moving on, was working single-crew for a Danish company now to be working for a UK operator, so there's a job that will need filling by someone with some experience in a job that itself will need fillling by a low-hour pilot.
Lots of jobs around, and A320 is showing a great demonstration of the type of person who doesn't get those jobs. Thanks A320.
guimaraes
I am not sure why you are talking about facts, without knowing a lot about the industry where there are few hard facts and many opinionated amateurs. I was warned against paying for a type rating even though I could find the money. It can be a help, bu can also be a hindrance in finding a job.
More than 100 airlines? For a start who is restricting themselves to airlines? There are more than 100 operators in the UK, let alone Europe!
Most of the people I taught, many of whom now have jobs, were not rich. They would be offended to hear people assume that if they were thin-skinned and not too busy enjoying their work!
Lots of jobs around, and A320 is showing a great demonstration of the type of person who doesn't get those jobs. Thanks A320.
guimaraes
I am not sure why you are talking about facts, without knowing a lot about the industry where there are few hard facts and many opinionated amateurs. I was warned against paying for a type rating even though I could find the money. It can be a help, bu can also be a hindrance in finding a job.
More than 100 airlines? For a start who is restricting themselves to airlines? There are more than 100 operators in the UK, let alone Europe!
Most of the people I taught, many of whom now have jobs, were not rich. They would be offended to hear people assume that if they were thin-skinned and not too busy enjoying their work!
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Not really on topic but question for delta and moggiee, are Flying Instructors really getting called by Easyjet now? I knew they'd lowered their minimums from 1500 to 500 multi crew, but that kind of surprises me? Did this chap really honestly only have 9 months instructing? And no contacts in the company?