FO's paying to fly?
A320rider poses an interesting point. if you are paying to fly the line, are you classed as "employed"?
I believe EagleJet (hiring for example 727 FO/FE's for stateside cargo ops) get around this as the "employees" are actually paid flight hours.
Interesting to see how this pans out.
I believe EagleJet (hiring for example 727 FO/FE's for stateside cargo ops) get around this as the "employees" are actually paid flight hours.
Interesting to see how this pans out.
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a320rider
Move post to Jetblast anyone? Oh well, I found it amusing anyway....
Go back into your (hopefully soundproof) box a320rider, you're spoiling an otherwise interesting thread.
UM
secondly, a copilot paying to log hours on a plane with PAX,does not act as a commercial pilot.Commercial license give the privilege to be paid.If you are not paid, you are acting as a privat pilot or as a student pilot and again this is not legal under CAA rules.
Go back into your (hopefully soundproof) box a320rider, you're spoiling an otherwise interesting thread.
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I don't see why" a320rider needs to go back in his box" and i really don't believe the paying for whatever it takes trend is all that amusing.
Come on sroggs,this is going to effect most of us , if the moderators/ pprune care about this industry why not speak out against paying until you get there,where is the end ,all this might not affect you but it will affect me!!!
Come on sroggs,this is going to effect most of us , if the moderators/ pprune care about this industry why not speak out against paying until you get there,where is the end ,all this might not affect you but it will affect me!!!
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hazehoe
I agree, the idea of paying for everything these days is not at all amusing, and that is what this thread is all about. Let's just keep it on a serious level.
I just get a bit annoyed when dedicated professionals can sit down in front of a computer, take paragraphs and phrases completely out of context, compile utter rubbish and press submit.
Sorry a320driver, I think I see where you are going with this, and you may have a valid point actually, but keep your facts straight please.
UM
I agree, the idea of paying for everything these days is not at all amusing, and that is what this thread is all about. Let's just keep it on a serious level.
I just get a bit annoyed when dedicated professionals can sit down in front of a computer, take paragraphs and phrases completely out of context, compile utter rubbish and press submit.
Sorry a320driver, I think I see where you are going with this, and you may have a valid point actually, but keep your facts straight please.
UM
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flash8,
surly not, you are not considered employed if you pay a company to offer you some flight hours. you have maybe a nice badge cliped on your shirt saying "first officer", but the contract you have signed, is a student contract.
If it was a real contract with a serious company, in the bottom of your contract you should read how much they pay you!if they do not pay you, you are not employed!
When you leave(after your 150-200-300 hours, whatever), you can not say you have worked, and you do not have unemployment compensation,in some countries by exemple, if you want have some cash ,you have to show your last 2-3 months salary receipts and a letter showing you have been fired!.
Under the SOP, only employees can have access to a cockpit, not student.
only employees can pass a security check for a company and only employees can be on a tarmac.
all procedures are in the SOP, and it is printed nowhere that a student pilot who pay a company is authorised to fly with passenger, be on the tarmac by exemple,(this time, the airport could be held reponsible if there is an accident around the aircraft).
again, this is not only my point of view only, but the point of view of the FAA .The FAA has already baned such practices years ago (with this famous school in Florida) I have heared, and I guess soon, the CAA will have to take an "effort" to change some rules in UK or Europe or they could face legal action if one day a plane go down and that we discover that flight deck members was not fully employed.
to keep it simple: an airline is not a school. An airline who accepts you because you have paid them(or you have paid a tierce company) to log some hours, is not authorized under their area of operations. In fact you are downgrading your commercial privileges to privat privileges(should I say student pilot?).
I do not agree with airlines making profit from us, if we do not stop them, one day you will pay for everything, landing fee, hotel, fuel, and PAX' tickets.All I can see , some airlines are breaking laws every single day and the CAA does not give a damn s...t!
have a good one!
surly not, you are not considered employed if you pay a company to offer you some flight hours. you have maybe a nice badge cliped on your shirt saying "first officer", but the contract you have signed, is a student contract.
If it was a real contract with a serious company, in the bottom of your contract you should read how much they pay you!if they do not pay you, you are not employed!
When you leave(after your 150-200-300 hours, whatever), you can not say you have worked, and you do not have unemployment compensation,in some countries by exemple, if you want have some cash ,you have to show your last 2-3 months salary receipts and a letter showing you have been fired!.
Under the SOP, only employees can have access to a cockpit, not student.
only employees can pass a security check for a company and only employees can be on a tarmac.
all procedures are in the SOP, and it is printed nowhere that a student pilot who pay a company is authorised to fly with passenger, be on the tarmac by exemple,(this time, the airport could be held reponsible if there is an accident around the aircraft).
again, this is not only my point of view only, but the point of view of the FAA .The FAA has already baned such practices years ago (with this famous school in Florida) I have heared, and I guess soon, the CAA will have to take an "effort" to change some rules in UK or Europe or they could face legal action if one day a plane go down and that we discover that flight deck members was not fully employed.
to keep it simple: an airline is not a school. An airline who accepts you because you have paid them(or you have paid a tierce company) to log some hours, is not authorized under their area of operations. In fact you are downgrading your commercial privileges to privat privileges(should I say student pilot?).
I do not agree with airlines making profit from us, if we do not stop them, one day you will pay for everything, landing fee, hotel, fuel, and PAX' tickets.All I can see , some airlines are breaking laws every single day and the CAA does not give a damn s...t!
have a good one!
Last edited by A320rider; 18th Dec 2005 at 18:13.
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There is been lots of talk, but in my opinion we should make the difference between paying for a TR, which unless you are promised a job is useless, and PAYING TO WORK.
There are several reasons why not to do that, among others:
1-if you pay to work as FO, you are making a first officer unemployed, cause this company wont employ anymore FO, as they can get them for free, better said, paying
2- in the event you get enough hours to be considered for a position, you wont get one, cause they will prefer the following in the queue, with fresh cash
3-The company will be able to lower the prices , thus forcing the other companies to follow their method or go out of bussines, so on the long term you wont have a job, and if you have one the wages will be so low that you'll have to spend your days off working at MCdonalds to make it to the end of the month.
There has been somebody saying that lawyers have to pay for their training and to become partner, well that is true, but this people WILL BE OWNERS OF THE COMPANY THEY WILL WORK IN, while you FO paying to work wont own s**t .
The theory of that there is no way of getting a job in GA is bull****, know lot's of people getting jobs without contacts, one of them being me, it may take a little effort and perhaps moving from an area to another , or even to another country, but it can be done, you don't neeed to be superman for it, just be willing to do it.
The other big LIE is saying that a 1000 hours on SEP, either instructing or doing aerial work, are useless when it comes to fly big iron, this afirmation is erroneous.
Be honest and say i don't wanna work hard for it, i wanna have it easy because i can afford to pay, and i don't care if i am causing prejudice to myself and my colleagues as long as i get what i want.
It's fine if you want that , but do not try to make it up and convince yourself and others that it is allright.
Call things by their name
There are several reasons why not to do that, among others:
1-if you pay to work as FO, you are making a first officer unemployed, cause this company wont employ anymore FO, as they can get them for free, better said, paying
2- in the event you get enough hours to be considered for a position, you wont get one, cause they will prefer the following in the queue, with fresh cash
3-The company will be able to lower the prices , thus forcing the other companies to follow their method or go out of bussines, so on the long term you wont have a job, and if you have one the wages will be so low that you'll have to spend your days off working at MCdonalds to make it to the end of the month.
There has been somebody saying that lawyers have to pay for their training and to become partner, well that is true, but this people WILL BE OWNERS OF THE COMPANY THEY WILL WORK IN, while you FO paying to work wont own s**t .
The theory of that there is no way of getting a job in GA is bull****, know lot's of people getting jobs without contacts, one of them being me, it may take a little effort and perhaps moving from an area to another , or even to another country, but it can be done, you don't neeed to be superman for it, just be willing to do it.
The other big LIE is saying that a 1000 hours on SEP, either instructing or doing aerial work, are useless when it comes to fly big iron, this afirmation is erroneous.
Be honest and say i don't wanna work hard for it, i wanna have it easy because i can afford to pay, and i don't care if i am causing prejudice to myself and my colleagues as long as i get what i want.
It's fine if you want that , but do not try to make it up and convince yourself and others that it is allright.
Call things by their name
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Come on sroggs,this is going to effect most of us , if the moderators/ pprune care about this industry why not speak out against paying until you get there,where is the end ,all this might not affect you but it will affect me!!!
I just get a bit annoyed when dedicated professionals can sit down in front of a computer, take paragraphs and phrases completely out of context, compile utter rubbish and press submit.
Scroggs
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Scroggs
I am sorry, I should have stated it more clearly, I was referring to a320riders post. This thread has otherwise been very interesting. Thanks to the more experienced guys for contributing as well.
This is what I'm referring to.
Perhaps a little harsh, but I see and hear people all the time with (in my opinion) "liberal" interpretations of JAR rules and regulations. Whether that is because of lack of understanding, an aversion against regs or just plain ignorance I don't know.
UM
I am sorry, I should have stated it more clearly, I was referring to a320riders post. This thread has otherwise been very interesting. Thanks to the more experienced guys for contributing as well.
a copilot paying to log hours on a plane with PAX,does not act as a commercial pilot
legally, you can not even log your hours!
Perhaps a little harsh, but I see and hear people all the time with (in my opinion) "liberal" interpretations of JAR rules and regulations. Whether that is because of lack of understanding, an aversion against regs or just plain ignorance I don't know.
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quote:
____________________________________________________
Bond/Astraeus is not one of them; several Pprune Wannabes have benefitted from their expertise through the Pprune/Astraeus assisted training scheme. We do not associate ourselves with disreputable organisations!
____________________________________________________
Why is this any different than any of the other outfits,you pay for the TR,you pay for line training and than hope that you have a job.
I understand that you can not change the way poeple are trying to force there way in by going these routes or change the market place. I do believe that by associating your self with the above scheme more and more wannebees will believe that this is the way to go.
I did go the "old" route ,banner towing,flight instruction in single and multi engine airplanes,gargo twins and fly for a regional in the UK now,the statement from other ppruners that this is impossible today is just not true,i now of several poeple that are doing just that at this moment. The clear message to wannebees should be;do not pay for anything after the FATPL. I recently visited a school in the UK where a friend is instructing because he refuses to pay his way in,there were several students working on the ATPL writtens who were the proud owners of a PPL the discussion during the coffee brake was about which TR to buy after they finished there training (737/A320) and how much it would cost to get a couple of hunderd hours on these types.
The only thing i read here is how hard everybody tried, the facts are that a good chunk of them go straight to a TRTO with a bunch of money and pay whatever it takes to get in.
The best thing we can do is to dicourage these individuals by telling them NOT to do this( yes i know,they will anyway),but i will give it a try every time i have a change.
I will go with you and sit in front of Ryanair's door
Cheers
____________________________________________________
Bond/Astraeus is not one of them; several Pprune Wannabes have benefitted from their expertise through the Pprune/Astraeus assisted training scheme. We do not associate ourselves with disreputable organisations!
____________________________________________________
Why is this any different than any of the other outfits,you pay for the TR,you pay for line training and than hope that you have a job.
I understand that you can not change the way poeple are trying to force there way in by going these routes or change the market place. I do believe that by associating your self with the above scheme more and more wannebees will believe that this is the way to go.
I did go the "old" route ,banner towing,flight instruction in single and multi engine airplanes,gargo twins and fly for a regional in the UK now,the statement from other ppruners that this is impossible today is just not true,i now of several poeple that are doing just that at this moment. The clear message to wannebees should be;do not pay for anything after the FATPL. I recently visited a school in the UK where a friend is instructing because he refuses to pay his way in,there were several students working on the ATPL writtens who were the proud owners of a PPL the discussion during the coffee brake was about which TR to buy after they finished there training (737/A320) and how much it would cost to get a couple of hunderd hours on these types.
The only thing i read here is how hard everybody tried, the facts are that a good chunk of them go straight to a TRTO with a bunch of money and pay whatever it takes to get in.
The best thing we can do is to dicourage these individuals by telling them NOT to do this( yes i know,they will anyway),but i will give it a try every time i have a change.
I will go with you and sit in front of Ryanair's door
Cheers
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Hazehoe, I think you should go back and read through the process by which we selected people for that scheme, and the terms under which it was offered - and the results that our wannabes achieved. OK, it's not perfect, but it was a bloody sight better than was being offered by anyone alse at a time when jobs were very thin on the ground. We are not in a position to give away free training, and we never will be, but we got 10 (I think) wannabe pilots into employment with no money upfront and with a reinvestment into the Pprune fund that is right now being used to help other wannabes achieve their dreams. You want to knock us, go ahead - but check your facts first.
Also, your post reinforces the impression I get that wannabes are increasingly feeling that they should be offered a 737 seat directly from their CPL training. I have no idea why people feel that they now have a right to such a seat, but it would appear that they do. They are wrong. Money can sometimes buy advancement in just about any field, to some degree. It's true that buying a TR and line training may accelerate your advancement to that 737 seat, but why is that the all-consuming goal? What is wrong with the slower route via TPs etc? There will always be a few 'lucky' ones who can either afford to do the quick and expensive route, or who get selected via OAT and others for BA, but the majority will have to look to the far more fulfilling longer route to that jet seat. That's as it always was; this is not a new phenomenon.
Upper Medium Have a look at yer man A320rider's profile, and his posting history. He is not a professional pilot and, with his attitude, it's quite likely he never will be! He is an inveterate whinger who feels that the world owes him a living - and he paid for a rating, I believe.
Scroggs
Also, your post reinforces the impression I get that wannabes are increasingly feeling that they should be offered a 737 seat directly from their CPL training. I have no idea why people feel that they now have a right to such a seat, but it would appear that they do. They are wrong. Money can sometimes buy advancement in just about any field, to some degree. It's true that buying a TR and line training may accelerate your advancement to that 737 seat, but why is that the all-consuming goal? What is wrong with the slower route via TPs etc? There will always be a few 'lucky' ones who can either afford to do the quick and expensive route, or who get selected via OAT and others for BA, but the majority will have to look to the far more fulfilling longer route to that jet seat. That's as it always was; this is not a new phenomenon.
Upper Medium Have a look at yer man A320rider's profile, and his posting history. He is not a professional pilot and, with his attitude, it's quite likely he never will be! He is an inveterate whinger who feels that the world owes him a living - and he paid for a rating, I believe.
Scroggs
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the difference between Ryanair, and some other companies.Ryanair is hiring you and pay you a salary, and some airlines do not pay you. You pay them a certain amount of money based on the numbers of hours you fly.Schools sell block time too!
I am talking about this kind of practice(second case) which are "killing" us and every body on board.
I would like to know what could happen if during a preflight inspection, you fall from your plane,(Yes , people have been injured or even killed like that).Do the airlines' insurance pay for hospital fees?
what will happen next?, do they kick you out? what happen if you lose your medical. Are you registered with Balpa? what say Balpa about this?.
Years ago, this famous company based in Florida was working with US airlines under the aerocharter, Taxi ... federal rules operations.
these companies were "hiring" foreigners with an M1 visa.
it pissed of course everyone(specially US citizen) until one day, the FAA says stop.
Airlines were not giving jobs to US pilots, simply because they were making more money by turning their company to a "flight school".
This is why now, this famous Florida company is recruiting some of us to replace European paid jobs (and with the help of our government who are breaking laws every single day) .
I hope sincerely, that the CAA, and the european commission bans this kind of "illegal operation" in Europe.
I bet with you, that India, and China will adopt same system (maybe it is already done!)...
@Scroogs,thats right I am maybe not a commercial pilot,but for sure I am simple passenger, and for what I know, I expect to have fully paid pilots on board of my aircraft, and not a student pilots who tries to achieve his dream simply because he has the money.
I think it is illegal that a pilot pay more than a passenger, and passengers should be informed(passenger'rights).
maybe one day, we will see publicly a list of these companies who ask money from their flight crew.
anyway, I will do a little research on line, and see what we can do.
I am talking about this kind of practice(second case) which are "killing" us and every body on board.
I would like to know what could happen if during a preflight inspection, you fall from your plane,(Yes , people have been injured or even killed like that).Do the airlines' insurance pay for hospital fees?
what will happen next?, do they kick you out? what happen if you lose your medical. Are you registered with Balpa? what say Balpa about this?.
Years ago, this famous company based in Florida was working with US airlines under the aerocharter, Taxi ... federal rules operations.
these companies were "hiring" foreigners with an M1 visa.
it pissed of course everyone(specially US citizen) until one day, the FAA says stop.
Airlines were not giving jobs to US pilots, simply because they were making more money by turning their company to a "flight school".
This is why now, this famous Florida company is recruiting some of us to replace European paid jobs (and with the help of our government who are breaking laws every single day) .
I hope sincerely, that the CAA, and the european commission bans this kind of "illegal operation" in Europe.
I bet with you, that India, and China will adopt same system (maybe it is already done!)...
@Scroogs,thats right I am maybe not a commercial pilot,but for sure I am simple passenger, and for what I know, I expect to have fully paid pilots on board of my aircraft, and not a student pilots who tries to achieve his dream simply because he has the money.
I think it is illegal that a pilot pay more than a passenger, and passengers should be informed(passenger'rights).
maybe one day, we will see publicly a list of these companies who ask money from their flight crew.
anyway, I will do a little research on line, and see what we can do.
Last edited by A320rider; 19th Dec 2005 at 11:52.
Whilst I disagree with A320riders "student pilot" issue, as this is patently not the case, the purchasing of line time effectively makes you a prostitute (harsh words but well deserved) and the airline a customer and the training organisation a pimp.
This is the thin of a wedge, and unless fought now will rapidly become the norm. In a few years time the "Integrated+100hrs Jet" (a la Stapleford/Astraeus) will become "Integrated+500hrs Jet". SSTR's are almost the norm already (I thank Southwest for that, although they to their credit have seen the light).
Although an accident under these circumstances is certainly not more likely, if it were to occur it would I think force some legislative framework in place, which might not be a bad thing.
This is the thin of a wedge, and unless fought now will rapidly become the norm. In a few years time the "Integrated+100hrs Jet" (a la Stapleford/Astraeus) will become "Integrated+500hrs Jet". SSTR's are almost the norm already (I thank Southwest for that, although they to their credit have seen the light).
Although an accident under these circumstances is certainly not more likely, if it were to occur it would I think force some legislative framework in place, which might not be a bad thing.
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Job for you
Hey BAP, PM me with your personal information and I will get you a job with my company. We are very in need of Qualified, typed and professional pilots such as yourself.
PS - I don't know why I posted a reply on here and it was deleted by the moderators.... Is that common practice on here?
Simple - you didn't post a reply. You cut-and-pasted BAP's entire (long) post and added a one -line insult. You wasted our space and trivialised an interesting discussion. If you want to play games on the internet, do it somewhere else. If you have something worthwhile to say, then say it. I note that this post of yours is also little more than a taunt.
Scroggs
PS - I don't know why I posted a reply on here and it was deleted by the moderators.... Is that common practice on here?
Simple - you didn't post a reply. You cut-and-pasted BAP's entire (long) post and added a one -line insult. You wasted our space and trivialised an interesting discussion. If you want to play games on the internet, do it somewhere else. If you have something worthwhile to say, then say it. I note that this post of yours is also little more than a taunt.
Scroggs
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As usual, despite the best efforts of the post originator, Scroggs and a few others this is yet another post on thst slidy slope that is name calling and misinformation.
Everyone on here has to take some time to read the posts objectively and take from them what they will. Don't spit the dummy out the pram if someone says something that you disagree with, just dry your eyes and move on. Also if you correct people on spelling or the fact that airline A has 737-300's opposed to 737-400's I'd take a long look in the mirror.
Now rant over, here is my two cents worth (I am capitalising certain words to ensure there is no confusion in what I'm trying to say):
I'm NOT advocating paying for a type rating, I'm SUGGESTING that its something that newly qualified pilots should research and give ample thought to. I pointed this out in a tread I started with a link on page 2 of this one. I would also add the job front APPEARS to be IMPROVING day by day for the better, so in 12 months someone looking back may think of this as obsolete.
When I look objectively from a distance and with my 'business hat' on I can see SOME sense in maybe shelling out for a type rating.
Its basically how importantly do you rate yourself? This was hit on the head for me when you think in terms like this:
Christmas shopping in any major UK city, pain in the arse parking, you see a shiny NCP offering parking at 3 quid an hour, 'bollocks to that, its a Sunday' you tell yourself 'I'll find a meter' so you drive round for 10 more minutes looking, finally find one and park, yes its free, its a 15 minute walk to the NCP which is beside the Shops (therefore 40 minutes total) and you burned fuel pissing about looking for it. So saving 6 quid cost you more in terms of your time, hassle and can never be accused of being efficient or environmently friendly. In real terms the average UK salary is 25k a year (= 13 quid an hour) in real terms you are about 2.50 down.
Does everyone hate NCP's, bloody right, but when you equate how valuable your time is it sometimes make sense. Now think in terms of career progression and logging those all important 'quality hours'.
If you equate the cost (one organisation in the US does them from $8,500 to $11,500) against potential salary in a 100+ passenger jet and the fact that from when you are hired you are logging those all important 'quality hours' and compared against other alternatives open to less than 700TT more than 250TT then I think it should be given ample thought.
Everyone on here has to take some time to read the posts objectively and take from them what they will. Don't spit the dummy out the pram if someone says something that you disagree with, just dry your eyes and move on. Also if you correct people on spelling or the fact that airline A has 737-300's opposed to 737-400's I'd take a long look in the mirror.
Now rant over, here is my two cents worth (I am capitalising certain words to ensure there is no confusion in what I'm trying to say):
I'm NOT advocating paying for a type rating, I'm SUGGESTING that its something that newly qualified pilots should research and give ample thought to. I pointed this out in a tread I started with a link on page 2 of this one. I would also add the job front APPEARS to be IMPROVING day by day for the better, so in 12 months someone looking back may think of this as obsolete.
When I look objectively from a distance and with my 'business hat' on I can see SOME sense in maybe shelling out for a type rating.
Its basically how importantly do you rate yourself? This was hit on the head for me when you think in terms like this:
Christmas shopping in any major UK city, pain in the arse parking, you see a shiny NCP offering parking at 3 quid an hour, 'bollocks to that, its a Sunday' you tell yourself 'I'll find a meter' so you drive round for 10 more minutes looking, finally find one and park, yes its free, its a 15 minute walk to the NCP which is beside the Shops (therefore 40 minutes total) and you burned fuel pissing about looking for it. So saving 6 quid cost you more in terms of your time, hassle and can never be accused of being efficient or environmently friendly. In real terms the average UK salary is 25k a year (= 13 quid an hour) in real terms you are about 2.50 down.
Does everyone hate NCP's, bloody right, but when you equate how valuable your time is it sometimes make sense. Now think in terms of career progression and logging those all important 'quality hours'.
If you equate the cost (one organisation in the US does them from $8,500 to $11,500) against potential salary in a 100+ passenger jet and the fact that from when you are hired you are logging those all important 'quality hours' and compared against other alternatives open to less than 700TT more than 250TT then I think it should be given ample thought.
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Firstly before i start i would like to hear of cases where someone with 250TT who bought a TR and got a job after it.... no "i knew a guy", i want direct references..
My impression from most of the cases i read that these people end up with a big debt (or daddy does) and no job. im sorry with 250TT TR or not, you dont know sh*t.
Now we are all dragging the industry down with all this talk of paying for TR's, ICUS. Whats wrong with hard work? get off the sofa an look for work. If you cant find it go to where the work is ! There are numerous posts on where you can go and get a job. Follow the tried and tested career path to success,
250TT (instruct/do scenics)
1000TT (charter)
2000TT (RPT / Airline)
we are professionals here,
we do not work for nothing !
we do not pay to work for an operator !
If you see someone do it... that does not give you an excuse to do it !
my 2c
Duff Shark
My impression from most of the cases i read that these people end up with a big debt (or daddy does) and no job. im sorry with 250TT TR or not, you dont know sh*t.
Now we are all dragging the industry down with all this talk of paying for TR's, ICUS. Whats wrong with hard work? get off the sofa an look for work. If you cant find it go to where the work is ! There are numerous posts on where you can go and get a job. Follow the tried and tested career path to success,
250TT (instruct/do scenics)
1000TT (charter)
2000TT (RPT / Airline)
we are professionals here,
we do not work for nothing !
we do not pay to work for an operator !
If you see someone do it... that does not give you an excuse to do it !
my 2c
Duff Shark
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CA
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Duff Shark and few others,
Direct references: I am 26 and I had exactly 262 hours TT when I bought my EA32 type rating, then I flew til 300 hours on a C172 before joining the line training on the A320. I am now paid and I can refund my loan without stress...
At the same time, 2 friends of mine with 200 hrs TT were on the 737NG TR and are now flying for an airline based in the Uk.
My partner during the TR had 600 hrs TT mostly done on a C152 as an instructor, he is now flying in SE Asia on the A320
You have to wake up guys, flying a jet is not more difficult than a light twin. You have to realise that we are asked to monitor a computer and you DON'T need 5000 hrs experience for that. Airlines put these requirements otherwise they receive 1000 CVs per day. The fact is that some people can't afford to pay a TR so they can only give advise even if they are not in the reality of the market. It's sad but money is running the world not only in aviation. You have the choice to lose your time on the internet or jump in the real seat...the job won't come to you.
Hope it helps
i would like to hear of cases where someone with 250TT who bought a TR and got a job after it.... no "i knew a guy", i want direct references..
At the same time, 2 friends of mine with 200 hrs TT were on the 737NG TR and are now flying for an airline based in the Uk.
My partner during the TR had 600 hrs TT mostly done on a C152 as an instructor, he is now flying in SE Asia on the A320
You have to wake up guys, flying a jet is not more difficult than a light twin. You have to realise that we are asked to monitor a computer and you DON'T need 5000 hrs experience for that. Airlines put these requirements otherwise they receive 1000 CVs per day. The fact is that some people can't afford to pay a TR so they can only give advise even if they are not in the reality of the market. It's sad but money is running the world not only in aviation. You have the choice to lose your time on the internet or jump in the real seat...the job won't come to you.
Hope it helps
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: United states of Europe
Posts: 310
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I am a firm believer that the kids with too much money between their hands are ruining a former reputable business.
Being a pilot is no longer a job but an expensive hobby for rich kids.
I instructed 1600hrs, flew twin-piston charter, instructed some more - when I reached 2,500hrs the market was full of "kids with dreams" who didn't mind paying to fly as it was their "lifelong dream" (pretty ironic for these 20something aged kids)
I recently decided that the business has now become saturated with SSTR and paid linetraining schemes. As a consequence I have chosen a different career path - totally unrelated to aviation.
Still keep up with news on BB's like this one - Glad I got out, bitter about spending that much time and money and then seeing these idiots cheating in line, yes! you are cheating in line.
If you paid for your T/R I hope you are unemployed, I hope that your sh!tty contracts expires and that some chief pilot somewhere will choose a REAL pilot over you.
Maybe someday the business will return to an acceptable level where experience isn't bought with money.
Keeping my tickets current - but seriously doubt they will ever be used for anything more than a sunday trip around the flagpole, which will be a great opportunity to listen to the SSTR-pilots messing up the frequencies because they bought themselves into a position they just do not have experience to handle.
The argument that instruction is a waste of time is absolutely lame, and usually made by the retards that can't get there fast enough. I learned loads from instructing - a lot more than just stick and rudder.
Funnily you see these newbies complaining about terms and conditions in the business they so helped to undermine.
Thanks for letting me vent, just bitter - wouldn't you be?
Being a pilot is no longer a job but an expensive hobby for rich kids.
I instructed 1600hrs, flew twin-piston charter, instructed some more - when I reached 2,500hrs the market was full of "kids with dreams" who didn't mind paying to fly as it was their "lifelong dream" (pretty ironic for these 20something aged kids)
I recently decided that the business has now become saturated with SSTR and paid linetraining schemes. As a consequence I have chosen a different career path - totally unrelated to aviation.
Still keep up with news on BB's like this one - Glad I got out, bitter about spending that much time and money and then seeing these idiots cheating in line, yes! you are cheating in line.
If you paid for your T/R I hope you are unemployed, I hope that your sh!tty contracts expires and that some chief pilot somewhere will choose a REAL pilot over you.
Maybe someday the business will return to an acceptable level where experience isn't bought with money.
Keeping my tickets current - but seriously doubt they will ever be used for anything more than a sunday trip around the flagpole, which will be a great opportunity to listen to the SSTR-pilots messing up the frequencies because they bought themselves into a position they just do not have experience to handle.
The argument that instruction is a waste of time is absolutely lame, and usually made by the retards that can't get there fast enough. I learned loads from instructing - a lot more than just stick and rudder.
Funnily you see these newbies complaining about terms and conditions in the business they so helped to undermine.
Thanks for letting me vent, just bitter - wouldn't you be?