Emerald latest??
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emerald are undermanned across the board and always have been !!!
profits come first before anything else and no one in the company is considered an asset
bullyboy tactics is what keep emerald afloat.
making people work overtime and silly numbers of hours is a byword for emerald management.......obviously using "management" in the loosest sense of the word...:-)
profits come first before anything else and no one in the company is considered an asset
bullyboy tactics is what keep emerald afloat.
making people work overtime and silly numbers of hours is a byword for emerald management.......obviously using "management" in the loosest sense of the word...:-)
Last edited by Germstone; 19th Aug 2004 at 22:35.
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Not strictly accurate Germstone, how far are you going back?
Emerald are not in the premier league but more like the 3rd division, anyone who wants to play in the premier league shouldn't consider a career with Emerald.
That said, Emerald have survived, and survived well since the days of Janes Aviation and Janes Aviation (748). They have done this by putting profits first, this is common business practice and common sense, it's not rocket science and by staying in the black for a decade or more they remain there today to pay one's mortgage etc.
I never experienced, as you say, bully boy tactics. Yes, perhaps Emerald senior management might improve upon their man management skills but there has not been a recent change in the said management, it was there when one went in and it remains there today.
Of course, if one doesn't like it, one can always apply to 'The World's Favourite Airline', they're really flavour of the month with a lot of their staff at the moment or even apply to the Irish low-cost carrier, that's another really happy ship! or even the EMA based 'Star Alliance'.
Eventually, some will learn, that wherever they go, not everybody will be happy all of the time and some, through naivity, will always find something to complain about believing they are the only person or people in this world feeling hard done by.
This is not a defence of Emerald nor it's management, it's plain common sense and a voice of experience!
Emerald are not in the premier league but more like the 3rd division, anyone who wants to play in the premier league shouldn't consider a career with Emerald.
That said, Emerald have survived, and survived well since the days of Janes Aviation and Janes Aviation (748). They have done this by putting profits first, this is common business practice and common sense, it's not rocket science and by staying in the black for a decade or more they remain there today to pay one's mortgage etc.
I never experienced, as you say, bully boy tactics. Yes, perhaps Emerald senior management might improve upon their man management skills but there has not been a recent change in the said management, it was there when one went in and it remains there today.
Of course, if one doesn't like it, one can always apply to 'The World's Favourite Airline', they're really flavour of the month with a lot of their staff at the moment or even apply to the Irish low-cost carrier, that's another really happy ship! or even the EMA based 'Star Alliance'.
Eventually, some will learn, that wherever they go, not everybody will be happy all of the time and some, through naivity, will always find something to complain about believing they are the only person or people in this world feeling hard done by.
This is not a defence of Emerald nor it's management, it's plain common sense and a voice of experience!
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There's a big difference between being annoyed about losing tea and bun priviledges compared to getting called at 3 in the morning (waking up wife and kids) because they haven't got enough crew to cover the routes they have now. (On a regular basis.)
Emerald management need to sharpen up quickly or the 20 year run of being in the black may come to a crashing end and that won't be good for anybody. Management, crews or customers.
Emerald management need to sharpen up quickly or the 20 year run of being in the black may come to a crashing end and that won't be good for anybody. Management, crews or customers.
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Management, crews or customers
Slowly,
I'm not going to get in to tittle-tattle but your most recent post, I believe, says it all.
An airline, well it's all about pilots, and pilots, and pilots and hey, let's have a snipe at management.
What about the engineers, the operations & crewing people, the accountants, the lady that sits on reception, the post holders that keep the AOC going? Hey, let's not worry about them, it's us pilots that matter!
Yes, accepted Emerald don't have enough crews to cover all eventualities but please name one independent carrier that does?
And just ask any RYR pilot if his/her sole disgruntlement is 'tea & buns'?
Slowly,
I'm not going to get in to tittle-tattle but your most recent post, I believe, says it all.
An airline, well it's all about pilots, and pilots, and pilots and hey, let's have a snipe at management.
What about the engineers, the operations & crewing people, the accountants, the lady that sits on reception, the post holders that keep the AOC going? Hey, let's not worry about them, it's us pilots that matter!
Yes, accepted Emerald don't have enough crews to cover all eventualities but please name one independent carrier that does?
And just ask any RYR pilot if his/her sole disgruntlement is 'tea & buns'?
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Bit of an unfair post there, at no time would I ever suggest that pilots are the be all and end all for an airline, but to be totally blunt they are the single most important group of employees in any airline, a/c can't fly without crews but they can without accountants.
Emerald's problems are far deeper than a Pilots Vs Management debate. Have you asked our engineers how happy they are the moment?? Ops and crewing?? They love working there...........
If we had enough crews to cover the amount of work we have at the moment it would be great. I've seen the stress that the guy's and gal's in ops have to go through just to crew an 'normal' day. How many roster changes have you had recently??
The current situation is unsustainable and for the sake of employing a few more people we are at risk of losing contracts. I seem to remember that a 748 had to do one of the Shed runs a couple of weeks ago, since there were no crews available for a scheduled run! How daft is that? Last minute charters are one thing, but not being able to crew a flight that goes everyday is unforgiveable in my eyes. In the long term having a bit of slack available pays off, but that concept doesn't seem to be understood by 'management.' (A catch-all phrase that really applies to one person.)
Emerald's problems are far deeper than a Pilots Vs Management debate. Have you asked our engineers how happy they are the moment?? Ops and crewing?? They love working there...........
If we had enough crews to cover the amount of work we have at the moment it would be great. I've seen the stress that the guy's and gal's in ops have to go through just to crew an 'normal' day. How many roster changes have you had recently??
The current situation is unsustainable and for the sake of employing a few more people we are at risk of losing contracts. I seem to remember that a 748 had to do one of the Shed runs a couple of weeks ago, since there were no crews available for a scheduled run! How daft is that? Last minute charters are one thing, but not being able to crew a flight that goes everyday is unforgiveable in my eyes. In the long term having a bit of slack available pays off, but that concept doesn't seem to be understood by 'management.' (A catch-all phrase that really applies to one person.)
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Say Again ...
Getting woken at 0300 if you're on s/by happens at any airline ! I've never worked anywhere in the last 21 years where this isn't a factor ! If you weren't on s/by though then you certainly have a valid point.
I can't comment on previous practices at Emerald for crew callouts or lack of crew in general, but I do know Ops & Crewing are (or about to) go through a radical shake-up and bring them into the 21st century giving them the tools and people to do the job more efficiently.
The ops/crewing dept has been 'neglected' for want of a better word for years, not intentionally, but for a myriad of reasons. This has now been recognised by senior mngt, and is being addressed.
This will hopefully make their lives easier, and the net result make the FD crews lives easier as well.
Getting woken at 0300 if you're on s/by happens at any airline ! I've never worked anywhere in the last 21 years where this isn't a factor ! If you weren't on s/by though then you certainly have a valid point.
I can't comment on previous practices at Emerald for crew callouts or lack of crew in general, but I do know Ops & Crewing are (or about to) go through a radical shake-up and bring them into the 21st century giving them the tools and people to do the job more efficiently.
The ops/crewing dept has been 'neglected' for want of a better word for years, not intentionally, but for a myriad of reasons. This has now been recognised by senior mngt, and is being addressed.
This will hopefully make their lives easier, and the net result make the FD crews lives easier as well.
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emerald have no option but to modernise...they were taken to task over the "FW" over (almost into) the alps incident !!
I heard crews were having to beg borrow and steal flightplans from other operators just to get by on the continent as they were receiving little to no support from base no doubt due to manpower shortages and were ill prepared to operate on the continent.
unsurprisingly things almost went disasterously wrong.
but that wont matter to MOB im sure he is tucked up safely in bed at night dreaming of all the profit related bonuses he can make of the backs of the hardworking emerald staff!!!!
slight change of subject but im led to beleive there new CEO of the engineering side Andy Marshall of klm norwich fame is a really big hit with the engineering types...lol
he has a really unique perception of man management skills i.e non existant.
BTW no axe to grind at all but just realistic observations
im sat fat dumb and happy in my present role
I heard crews were having to beg borrow and steal flightplans from other operators just to get by on the continent as they were receiving little to no support from base no doubt due to manpower shortages and were ill prepared to operate on the continent.
unsurprisingly things almost went disasterously wrong.
but that wont matter to MOB im sure he is tucked up safely in bed at night dreaming of all the profit related bonuses he can make of the backs of the hardworking emerald staff!!!!
slight change of subject but im led to beleive there new CEO of the engineering side Andy Marshall of klm norwich fame is a really big hit with the engineering types...lol
he has a really unique perception of man management skills i.e non existant.
BTW no axe to grind at all but just realistic observations
im sat fat dumb and happy in my present role
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Slowly,
As a pilot in an airline such as Emerald you should be a team player, even if you feel the management aren't wearing the same colour shirts as you are.
Your previous post mentioned crews & management but neglected to mention any other of the players of your team. Yes, Engineering and Operations are important team players also and probably more stessed and fed-up than you are but please don't live under the false impression that, as a pilot, you are more important than others in the team. That's a little bit like saying the centre forward is the most important but he'd be focked without a midfield, a defence and a goalkeeper!
Would you care to explain how an airline, the size of Emerald, is going to operate without accountants? Without accountants, invoices don't go out, money doesn't come in, bills don't get paid resulting in no handling, no fuel, no crew transport or accommodation and aircraft impounded by airport authorities for non-payment of navigation and landing fees.
How far do you think you're going to get without accountants and where's the money going to come from to pay your salary at the end of the month?
Your reference to a Budgie substituting for a Shed, I can only guess Emerald is your only airline to date. Just ask any major charter or schedule operator if they've ever had to utilise an aircraft larger than was necessary to cover a smaller aircraft, the answer(s) will be yes, yes, yes.
Accepted, you shouldn't be phoned, if off duty, at 0300 in the morning but as I mentioned earlier, you're playing in the third division where '**** happens'. If you want a different, not necessarily better, life then move up a division or two but life ain't that rosy there either, just ask the guys and gals at RYR, BMI or EZY and it ain't all to do with 'tea & buns'.
As a pilot in an airline such as Emerald you should be a team player, even if you feel the management aren't wearing the same colour shirts as you are.
Your previous post mentioned crews & management but neglected to mention any other of the players of your team. Yes, Engineering and Operations are important team players also and probably more stessed and fed-up than you are but please don't live under the false impression that, as a pilot, you are more important than others in the team. That's a little bit like saying the centre forward is the most important but he'd be focked without a midfield, a defence and a goalkeeper!
Would you care to explain how an airline, the size of Emerald, is going to operate without accountants? Without accountants, invoices don't go out, money doesn't come in, bills don't get paid resulting in no handling, no fuel, no crew transport or accommodation and aircraft impounded by airport authorities for non-payment of navigation and landing fees.
How far do you think you're going to get without accountants and where's the money going to come from to pay your salary at the end of the month?
Your reference to a Budgie substituting for a Shed, I can only guess Emerald is your only airline to date. Just ask any major charter or schedule operator if they've ever had to utilise an aircraft larger than was necessary to cover a smaller aircraft, the answer(s) will be yes, yes, yes.
Accepted, you shouldn't be phoned, if off duty, at 0300 in the morning but as I mentioned earlier, you're playing in the third division where '**** happens'. If you want a different, not necessarily better, life then move up a division or two but life ain't that rosy there either, just ask the guys and gals at RYR, BMI or EZY and it ain't all to do with 'tea & buns'.
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I heard crews were having to beg borrow and steal flightplans from other operators just to get by on the continent as they were receiving little to no support from base no doubt due to manpower shortages and were ill prepared to operate on the continent.
Pse PM me if you don't wish to make public.
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i am unsure as to why this occured as i was not privvy to the reasons but i beleive the crews were having to be very resourcefull
AMEN to that slowly.........i beleive a lot of the groundstaff are now activly looking to join unions and start to seek union recognition.
as numerous requests for pay and working condition reviews over the past few years have fallen on deaf ears
Emerald\'s problems are far deeper than a Pilots Vs Management debate. Have you asked our engineers how happy they are the moment?? Ops and crewing?? They love working there...........
AMEN to that slowly.........i beleive a lot of the groundstaff are now activly looking to join unions and start to seek union recognition.
as numerous requests for pay and working condition reviews over the past few years have fallen on deaf ears
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the single most important group of employees in any airline, a/c can't fly without crews but they can without accountants.
Slowly,
That's what the 'Australian Airline Pilots Federation' thought in 1989, they've never had the same 'clout' since!
They tended the resignations of practically every Australian (Domestic) flight crew member overnight. Australian Airlines & Ansett Australia subsequently operated an entire summer season without any of these pilots or flight engineers on the payroll and they managed to make profits during the same period!
Nobody is indispensible!
Slowly,
That's what the 'Australian Airline Pilots Federation' thought in 1989, they've never had the same 'clout' since!
They tended the resignations of practically every Australian (Domestic) flight crew member overnight. Australian Airlines & Ansett Australia subsequently operated an entire summer season without any of these pilots or flight engineers on the payroll and they managed to make profits during the same period!
Nobody is indispensible!
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i could say something about this lot but i don't need to because people know what i think. it could be a great company to work for if people were treated (managed) effectively. i know tin pot outfits
don't pay big bucks, are often stepping stones for lots of folk and require a lot of goodwill form employees, but most will accept these terms if they are made to feel valued which in turn improves productivity, loyalty etc etc. being valued doesn't mean
more dosh, more leave etc, it can be little touches (appreciation and recognition go a a long way for example). not so though with the mob - he's the know all of the airline industry - can do it all better than anyone else (who are stupid) , and if it were physically possile would do it all himself. i'm sure he's raking it in and that's fine with andy janes because he will be raking it in as well. nothing wrong with that as such, but you can still rake it in
and make people feel valued. why not rake in a little less and give some back as profit share for example - in the long term the amount you rake in will increase if you have a happy loyal workforce. don't think that's what they have at emerald.
don't pay big bucks, are often stepping stones for lots of folk and require a lot of goodwill form employees, but most will accept these terms if they are made to feel valued which in turn improves productivity, loyalty etc etc. being valued doesn't mean
more dosh, more leave etc, it can be little touches (appreciation and recognition go a a long way for example). not so though with the mob - he's the know all of the airline industry - can do it all better than anyone else (who are stupid) , and if it were physically possile would do it all himself. i'm sure he's raking it in and that's fine with andy janes because he will be raking it in as well. nothing wrong with that as such, but you can still rake it in
and make people feel valued. why not rake in a little less and give some back as profit share for example - in the long term the amount you rake in will increase if you have a happy loyal workforce. don't think that's what they have at emerald.
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Airlines can operate without accountants, not for long and not very successfully but it theory it can be done, like in theory we could fly without ATC, but I just don't want to try that for real!
As for being a "team player" I think you'll find most of us certainly are. The non team stuff comes from HQ. There is a terrible "them and us" attitude that pervades everything in Emerald, the mistrust and bad feeling has to seen to be believed. The "workers" do get on well generally, most pilots and engineers have a decent relationship but since we very rarely come into everyday contact with the accounts dept. etc then it is difficult to get to know these people individually, only their actions are known. This is one of the reasons that mis-trust gets built up since thy are faceless to us and vice-versa. Having team building exercises would be a good idea, but are about as likely to happen as me landing on the moon next week!
I would like to think that we all want the same things in the company, i.e for it to be successful and for it's staff to be treated with respect, since only the first thing is happening currently, I don't see any long-term future for myself at Emerald, sad but true. Does that make me mercenary? To be honest I couldn't care less. I do my job to the best of my abilities, but when I'm not there the place couldn't be further from my mind.
Being woken at 3am when on SBY is fine, that's what being on call is all about, but when it's on a day off or you only got in an hr before it does get a little grating. One of the reasons I have such sympathy for the ops bod's, being forced to do that every day is bound to end up in a torrent of abuse from somebody or their partner.
Having to take a 'budgie' to cover a shed, may be common place, but why on earth should it be acceptable? We're talking about a route that been done everyday for 6 months, we have the a/c to cover nearly anything, but we don't have the crews to man them, so you've got a perfectly good machine sitting on its backside whilst a more expensive machine has to take its place. Not sensible.
Dada, hit the nail squarely on the head.
As for being a "team player" I think you'll find most of us certainly are. The non team stuff comes from HQ. There is a terrible "them and us" attitude that pervades everything in Emerald, the mistrust and bad feeling has to seen to be believed. The "workers" do get on well generally, most pilots and engineers have a decent relationship but since we very rarely come into everyday contact with the accounts dept. etc then it is difficult to get to know these people individually, only their actions are known. This is one of the reasons that mis-trust gets built up since thy are faceless to us and vice-versa. Having team building exercises would be a good idea, but are about as likely to happen as me landing on the moon next week!
I would like to think that we all want the same things in the company, i.e for it to be successful and for it's staff to be treated with respect, since only the first thing is happening currently, I don't see any long-term future for myself at Emerald, sad but true. Does that make me mercenary? To be honest I couldn't care less. I do my job to the best of my abilities, but when I'm not there the place couldn't be further from my mind.
Being woken at 3am when on SBY is fine, that's what being on call is all about, but when it's on a day off or you only got in an hr before it does get a little grating. One of the reasons I have such sympathy for the ops bod's, being forced to do that every day is bound to end up in a torrent of abuse from somebody or their partner.
Having to take a 'budgie' to cover a shed, may be common place, but why on earth should it be acceptable? We're talking about a route that been done everyday for 6 months, we have the a/c to cover nearly anything, but we don't have the crews to man them, so you've got a perfectly good machine sitting on its backside whilst a more expensive machine has to take its place. Not sensible.
Dada, hit the nail squarely on the head.
Last edited by Say again s l o w l y; 21st Aug 2004 at 09:27.
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Hi,
Right, I'm going to 'butt out' after this post, yes, I've worked for Emerald in my time but nowadays this subject really has nothing to do with me. I have some fond memories and would like to see Emerald survive and prosper, I'm just trying to be constructive.
Dada, you say MOB is the know of the airline industry but not so. Emerald are a third division team, as you say, a tin pot stepping stone, but third division they are. Do you really think the big boys in the airline industry care or even know about Emerald or MOB? Many will have never heard of him, it's a totally different league out there!
Say again, I did refer to an airline the size of Emerald operating without accountants, it cannot realistically be done! Accepted, it doesn't make economic sense for a Budgie to cover a Shed but at least they managed to cover it in-house rather than sub-chartering out. Please take the time to calculate the cost of employing a Shed crew per annum to include salary, training, employers NI etc. etc. etc. They can afford to have a Budgie cover a Shed for numerous times each year before this would equate in a loss. Unfortunately, it will probably be only after it equates in a loss that something will be done about it!
I recall one night in the 'old days' when AJ came and spoke with me, he had previously looked at my CV and wanted some feedback from me. Well come on in AJ, have a cup of tea, pull up a chair! We chatted for what seemed like hours, it was constructive criticism time and he listened. Whilst such 'listening' opportunities might not exist in Emerald these days you can be sure that MOB and others are reading this, there is too much of people hiding behind handles, mouthing off 'this is ****e, that is bolloxs', this is your opportunity to post constructive critism and it being read by management. Don't talk about problems, talk about rectifications!
Whilst salaries might still be below the industry standard at Emerald they have improved somewhat significantly since the old days. OK, in LPL they don't need to pay the industry standard because the cost of living is so much cheaper there than perhaps down south, just compare the difference in the cost of a pint, unbelievable! But, by not paying the industry standard they're not going to attract all the right staff to make Emerald truly professional, they know that and seem quite content to remain in the third division rather than go for promotion and risk falling from grace (solvency) just as quickly.
Sure, they could go for salary increases, profit shares or even a better working environment but that ain't likely to happen whilst all the bad-mouthing continues on a site such as this. Try being constructive, grovel if need be, who cares if the end result is to be an improved working environment or an increase in your pay packet at the end of the month!
Right, I'm going to 'butt out' after this post, yes, I've worked for Emerald in my time but nowadays this subject really has nothing to do with me. I have some fond memories and would like to see Emerald survive and prosper, I'm just trying to be constructive.
Dada, you say MOB is the know of the airline industry but not so. Emerald are a third division team, as you say, a tin pot stepping stone, but third division they are. Do you really think the big boys in the airline industry care or even know about Emerald or MOB? Many will have never heard of him, it's a totally different league out there!
Say again, I did refer to an airline the size of Emerald operating without accountants, it cannot realistically be done! Accepted, it doesn't make economic sense for a Budgie to cover a Shed but at least they managed to cover it in-house rather than sub-chartering out. Please take the time to calculate the cost of employing a Shed crew per annum to include salary, training, employers NI etc. etc. etc. They can afford to have a Budgie cover a Shed for numerous times each year before this would equate in a loss. Unfortunately, it will probably be only after it equates in a loss that something will be done about it!
I recall one night in the 'old days' when AJ came and spoke with me, he had previously looked at my CV and wanted some feedback from me. Well come on in AJ, have a cup of tea, pull up a chair! We chatted for what seemed like hours, it was constructive criticism time and he listened. Whilst such 'listening' opportunities might not exist in Emerald these days you can be sure that MOB and others are reading this, there is too much of people hiding behind handles, mouthing off 'this is ****e, that is bolloxs', this is your opportunity to post constructive critism and it being read by management. Don't talk about problems, talk about rectifications!
Whilst salaries might still be below the industry standard at Emerald they have improved somewhat significantly since the old days. OK, in LPL they don't need to pay the industry standard because the cost of living is so much cheaper there than perhaps down south, just compare the difference in the cost of a pint, unbelievable! But, by not paying the industry standard they're not going to attract all the right staff to make Emerald truly professional, they know that and seem quite content to remain in the third division rather than go for promotion and risk falling from grace (solvency) just as quickly.
Sure, they could go for salary increases, profit shares or even a better working environment but that ain't likely to happen whilst all the bad-mouthing continues on a site such as this. Try being constructive, grovel if need be, who cares if the end result is to be an improved working environment or an increase in your pay packet at the end of the month!
Last edited by Phileas Fogg; 21st Aug 2004 at 11:15.
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Many people have come up with suggestions, ideas and plans that could turn the company into something fantastic, but none have ever been actioned. It comes down to "I'm in charge so this is what you'll do."
There is a potentially nasty fight brewing which I don't want to be part of. Crews and other staff are fed up, management won't back down and all that will happen is people will just leave.
Why should we kiss a*se to try and get the basics right? Pay expenses claims on time, don't stuff around with duty pay, don't roster people into discretion regularily, stop calling on days off for 'favours' that never get paid back, allow the engineers to buy some spares before they are needed, pay the company's bills on time. (nothing to do with not having the money). etc.etc.etc.etc.etc......(ad infinitum)
Are these constructive enough? Please note I've not mentioned anything about less hours or getting paid more.
MO'B are you listening??
There is a potentially nasty fight brewing which I don't want to be part of. Crews and other staff are fed up, management won't back down and all that will happen is people will just leave.
Why should we kiss a*se to try and get the basics right? Pay expenses claims on time, don't stuff around with duty pay, don't roster people into discretion regularily, stop calling on days off for 'favours' that never get paid back, allow the engineers to buy some spares before they are needed, pay the company's bills on time. (nothing to do with not having the money). etc.etc.etc.etc.etc......(ad infinitum)
Are these constructive enough? Please note I've not mentioned anything about less hours or getting paid more.
MO'B are you listening??
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the real big issue at emerald is management empire builders all trying to shine and not bothered about who they drop in it on the way up!
emerald at the moment is sailing very close to the wind on a lot of issues.
even the CAA are now taking a closer look at the way emerald is operated and becoming a lot more involved.....all the management bs about things improving is now not washing with the authority and they can see the cracks forming
there is a real big fight brewing and the emerald pressure cooker is reaching explosion point.
i personally am going to bail asap as i dont want to be a part of this organisation anymore (or shower of s**t as dada would say)
MOB is a know it all and ignorant with it too he wouldnt listen to grass roots staff he doesnt want to hear the problems and even if he did listen management inaction is legendary at emerald so there would be no changes!!!!!
as long as MOB and AJ are feathering there resprective nests..the rest of emerald can be run as badly as it can be.......aslong as it stays in the black
emerald at the moment is sailing very close to the wind on a lot of issues.
even the CAA are now taking a closer look at the way emerald is operated and becoming a lot more involved.....all the management bs about things improving is now not washing with the authority and they can see the cracks forming
there is a real big fight brewing and the emerald pressure cooker is reaching explosion point.
i personally am going to bail asap as i dont want to be a part of this organisation anymore (or shower of s**t as dada would say)
MOB is a know it all and ignorant with it too he wouldnt listen to grass roots staff he doesnt want to hear the problems and even if he did listen management inaction is legendary at emerald so there would be no changes!!!!!
as long as MOB and AJ are feathering there resprective nests..the rest of emerald can be run as badly as it can be.......aslong as it stays in the black
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: North West UK
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Quote:
"emerald have no option but to modernise...they were taken to task over the "FW" over (almost into) the alps incident !!
I heard crews were having to beg borrow and steal flightplans from other operators just to get by on the continent as they were receiving little to no support from base no doubt due to manpower shortages and were ill prepared to operate on the continent.
unsurprisingly things almost went disasterously wrong".
Just a thought - is it not strange how crews were able to fly this route safely, before and numerous times after the FW incident using the same information, nav logs etc which they DID NOT beg, steal or borrow - just a thought.
"emerald have no option but to modernise...they were taken to task over the "FW" over (almost into) the alps incident !!
I heard crews were having to beg borrow and steal flightplans from other operators just to get by on the continent as they were receiving little to no support from base no doubt due to manpower shortages and were ill prepared to operate on the continent.
unsurprisingly things almost went disasterously wrong".
Just a thought - is it not strange how crews were able to fly this route safely, before and numerous times after the FW incident using the same information, nav logs etc which they DID NOT beg, steal or borrow - just a thought.