Emerald latest??
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Guys
I know we have had to wait but this is all about to get sorted. Or at least it will get our best shot.
'Say again', 'Phileas', 'germstone' et al - if you are Em crew and signed up with Balpa, you will get all the details soon. Will be looking for your support when we (the crews) start trying to sort these problems out for real. If you are not members, please join!! If you don't see any changes in the next few months, feel free to quit. But right now we need you all in.
It will though be interesting to see how many pitch in and help me and how many just like to stand and complain!
Guys, if you need to, PM me. Otherwise hang on a few more days.
I know we have had to wait but this is all about to get sorted. Or at least it will get our best shot.
'Say again', 'Phileas', 'germstone' et al - if you are Em crew and signed up with Balpa, you will get all the details soon. Will be looking for your support when we (the crews) start trying to sort these problems out for real. If you are not members, please join!! If you don't see any changes in the next few months, feel free to quit. But right now we need you all in.
It will though be interesting to see how many pitch in and help me and how many just like to stand and complain!
Guys, if you need to, PM me. Otherwise hang on a few more days.
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I'm not. I'm pinning my hopes on me, you and the rest of the crews having the getup to do something given the opportunity.
It's better to try and fail than to p*ss in a toilet with no light - as Confucious may have said, had he been at CVT!
It's better to try and fail than to p*ss in a toilet with no light - as Confucious may have said, had he been at CVT!
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some interesting posts coming in.
ok as crews with balpa being quite small in numbers in the scheme of things at emerald.
any way we can bring the full weight of the workforce into the proceedings.
As I feel the only way forward is to have the whole workforce make there feelings known and force the issue as emerald management will never listen to distant voices but a big shout from the troops may promt them to sit up and listen.
4 years with no pay review is like treating the staff with contemp and also is a massive insult to the hard working staff which make emerald profitable
ok as crews with balpa being quite small in numbers in the scheme of things at emerald.
any way we can bring the full weight of the workforce into the proceedings.
As I feel the only way forward is to have the whole workforce make there feelings known and force the issue as emerald management will never listen to distant voices but a big shout from the troops may promt them to sit up and listen.
4 years with no pay review is like treating the staff with contemp and also is a massive insult to the hard working staff which make emerald profitable
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2 points of interest,
1) All the lights in the toilet at CVT are out suggesting a more serious problem than just a bulb, maybe a fuse?
2) Even when the lights were working, there was a disgusting smell of rotten p**s outside the hangar door, particularly in dry weather, maybe the next groundschool should include toilet training sessions for those too lazy to get the key to the loo.
1) All the lights in the toilet at CVT are out suggesting a more serious problem than just a bulb, maybe a fuse?
2) Even when the lights were working, there was a disgusting smell of rotten p**s outside the hangar door, particularly in dry weather, maybe the next groundschool should include toilet training sessions for those too lazy to get the key to the loo.
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dear emerald aircrew
please check out the thread below as it relates to the way your aircraft are looked after......or not as the case may be.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hlight=emerald
one of the engineers wanted you made aware as a moderator had moved the thread.
please check out the thread below as it relates to the way your aircraft are looked after......or not as the case may be.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hlight=emerald
one of the engineers wanted you made aware as a moderator had moved the thread.
CVT Bog lights
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Just out of interest say again slowly how long have you been working for Emerald Airways? You see I couldn’t help but notice that you registered on 28th March 2000, but have only recently started making posts on Emerald Airways. Also you posted at the end of 2003 that you where in search of your first airline position (I’ll spare you the link).
I think you should be careful about what you say on a public forum as it doesn’t take a genius to work out who a Shed pilot in the company 7 or 8 months or so may be. Narrows it down quite a bit doesn’t it. Now before you accuse me of being MOB I will just state I am not, nor am I connected with Emerald Airways in any way. Also I must say as a relatively new employee of Emerald I find it incredible that after such a short time you have developed such disdain for the company who has given you the opportunity which will no doubt lead to bigger things.
Also you are on VERY dodgy ground claiming that you are, quote, “regularly rostered into discretion”. Sorry but I don’t accept that for one minute. If that was happening on a regular basis the CAA audit which occurs every six months (don’t forget the random spot checks which can, and probably do occur) would put Emerald in deep ****. Being rostered into discretion is illegal. If they are rostering into discretion the ops staff will also have to go back and change the rosters of the pilots, which incidentally have to be kept on file, to avoid being bubbled by the CAA. Best make sure you have a COMPLETE understanding of FTL’s, FDP's and the nature of discretion before you approach the authority with that little chestnut.
Now if I have incorrectly assessed your profile I do apologize, and feel free to correct me.
I think you should be careful about what you say on a public forum as it doesn’t take a genius to work out who a Shed pilot in the company 7 or 8 months or so may be. Narrows it down quite a bit doesn’t it. Now before you accuse me of being MOB I will just state I am not, nor am I connected with Emerald Airways in any way. Also I must say as a relatively new employee of Emerald I find it incredible that after such a short time you have developed such disdain for the company who has given you the opportunity which will no doubt lead to bigger things.
Also you are on VERY dodgy ground claiming that you are, quote, “regularly rostered into discretion”. Sorry but I don’t accept that for one minute. If that was happening on a regular basis the CAA audit which occurs every six months (don’t forget the random spot checks which can, and probably do occur) would put Emerald in deep ****. Being rostered into discretion is illegal. If they are rostering into discretion the ops staff will also have to go back and change the rosters of the pilots, which incidentally have to be kept on file, to avoid being bubbled by the CAA. Best make sure you have a COMPLETE understanding of FTL’s, FDP's and the nature of discretion before you approach the authority with that little chestnut.
Now if I have incorrectly assessed your profile I do apologize, and feel free to correct me.
Last edited by Impressive_Wingspan; 9th Sep 2004 at 07:21.
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Impressive,
I believe, rather than being rostered into discretion, it is moreso instances of untrained Operations staff, on or near to the day, re-rostering the pilot without understanding the regulations.
A simple explanation of 'excuse me sunshine, is that not illegal?' to the Ops guy would be sufficient and which is understood to be happening but it's much more sensational to say 'rostered into discretion', a little bit like 'BA crash landing in Entebbe', attention seeking I guess.
Yes, Emerald does have it's problems but many of them are 'industry standard', much of the complaints seem to be guys in their first airline believing they are the only ones hard done by and once they move on from Emerald the streets will be paved with gold!
I believe, rather than being rostered into discretion, it is moreso instances of untrained Operations staff, on or near to the day, re-rostering the pilot without understanding the regulations.
A simple explanation of 'excuse me sunshine, is that not illegal?' to the Ops guy would be sufficient and which is understood to be happening but it's much more sensational to say 'rostered into discretion', a little bit like 'BA crash landing in Entebbe', attention seeking I guess.
Yes, Emerald does have it's problems but many of them are 'industry standard', much of the complaints seem to be guys in their first airline believing they are the only ones hard done by and once they move on from Emerald the streets will be paved with gold!
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Phileas
It's a little unfair to say that guys in their first airline job have no right to complain!
Whether its your first or last job with an airline or any other company for that matter, you have a right to decent treatment. Many of the problems with Emerald are not industry standard - I don't know of any other airline that does not provide food, drink and toilets for it's crews.
When you join Emerald, you are fully aware of the salary. What you are not aware of, for example, is that the company will arbitrarily change the command requirements to suit a complaining minority, without consulting the pilots, thereby taking away commands from several who were due and qualified.
All we want is reasonable treatment. The average burger flipper at McD's gets treated better than we do.
It's a little unfair to say that guys in their first airline job have no right to complain!
Whether its your first or last job with an airline or any other company for that matter, you have a right to decent treatment. Many of the problems with Emerald are not industry standard - I don't know of any other airline that does not provide food, drink and toilets for it's crews.
When you join Emerald, you are fully aware of the salary. What you are not aware of, for example, is that the company will arbitrarily change the command requirements to suit a complaining minority, without consulting the pilots, thereby taking away commands from several who were due and qualified.
All we want is reasonable treatment. The average burger flipper at McD's gets treated better than we do.
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H&T,
Quote: It's a little unfair to say that guys in their first airline job have no right to complain!
I didn't say that nor anything of the sort, I was merely making a point that many, not all, of the complaints are not unique to Emerald.
Quote: I don't know of any other airline that does not provide food, drink and toilets for it's crews.
A toilet where, on the aeroplane? Food & Drink, well try a low cost Irish carrier just for starters, drink OK but food, many airlines have stopped providing food, like I said, many such problems are not unique to Emerald.
Like I accepted, Emerald has it's problems, you've continued to itemise some of these which I'm not in a position to comment on but some of the other complaints are industry standard.
Quote: It's a little unfair to say that guys in their first airline job have no right to complain!
I didn't say that nor anything of the sort, I was merely making a point that many, not all, of the complaints are not unique to Emerald.
Quote: I don't know of any other airline that does not provide food, drink and toilets for it's crews.
A toilet where, on the aeroplane? Food & Drink, well try a low cost Irish carrier just for starters, drink OK but food, many airlines have stopped providing food, like I said, many such problems are not unique to Emerald.
Like I accepted, Emerald has it's problems, you've continued to itemise some of these which I'm not in a position to comment on but some of the other complaints are industry standard.
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Impressive, if you read my post properly, you will see that I mention that our rosters get changed and put us over our allowable flight duty period. If this is not being rostered into discretion, then I don't know what is, but as I have stated before, the onus is on all of us as crew to make sure what we do is 'legal', so as Phileas mentions a quick call usually sorts it out albeit with the occasional argument. If you know the ops manual properly and the FTL's, then you shouldn't have a problem though.
Emerald is not my first company, but even if it was, as H&T says, why should you put up with shoddy treatment. I've been there a bit longer than 7 or 8 months too!
I personally couldn't give a monkey's about crew food and drink, the issues I have I've already stated.
I really would like to see the company prosper, even if from purely selfish reasons, but I feel like I'm staring into the abyss sometimes when you see the unrest, unfortunately if it carries on like this, I can see the awful prospect of Emerald getting into serious difficulties as we lose contracts because we don't have the staff or available machines to complete what is asked of us and that suits no-one.
Emerald is not my first company, but even if it was, as H&T says, why should you put up with shoddy treatment. I've been there a bit longer than 7 or 8 months too!
I personally couldn't give a monkey's about crew food and drink, the issues I have I've already stated.
I really would like to see the company prosper, even if from purely selfish reasons, but I feel like I'm staring into the abyss sometimes when you see the unrest, unfortunately if it carries on like this, I can see the awful prospect of Emerald getting into serious difficulties as we lose contracts because we don't have the staff or available machines to complete what is asked of us and that suits no-one.
Last edited by Say again s l o w l y; 10th Sep 2004 at 21:30.
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Just out of interest, what is your understanding of fdp's and discretion? The flight duty period starts when you report for duty 45 mins or 1 hour before the flight depending on the contract and ends when you go off duty back at base or in the hotel if away. Discretion is used solely as a means of getting a duty finished that has ALREADY BEGUN!!! You cannot legally roster someone into discretion. It is illegal and Emerald would lose their AOC if found by the CAA to be doing such practices. This i know to be true from links i have to the CAA. They do not condone illegal rostering in any form and regular checks, which incidentally are often done without warning, are carried out. I think you are getting confused about what is and isn’t allowable. Ops/ Crewing can ask a crew to do a duty/ favour, and if this request is within 12 hours then they are perfectly within their rights to refuse. Normal practice for airlines is to give 12 hours minimum notice of a duty so technically anything within this could be seen as a favour. Your duty does not however start when you receive that call unless you are actually on standby. Ops could legally not give you a roster that jeopardized your rest at base etc as they simply aren’t allowed. All duty times and rest periods are entered into a database that flags up inaccuracies in fdp/ dp/ rest and this CANNOT BE FIDDLED! Discretion is only used once a duty has begun, and a max of 2 hours is allowable. Also anything over 1 hours discretion and/ or 1 hours reduction in rest must be submitted to the CAA in writing, and so regular rostering of the kind you suggest would instantly be flagged up and your company would be in deep ****. So therefore if wx is ****e or the aircraft is tech you can as a crew elect to use your discretion and continue. You also can elect not to as is within your rights, and i would suggest that if you feel you are being illegally rostered into discretion you tell your operations/ crewing department and let them sort it out.
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Impressive,
It is not so unusual for a pilot not to clearly understand FTL's and you yourself have just proved this point.
The FDP does not end when one goes off duty at base or when one reaches the hotel if away from base.
The FDP ends when one is 'on blocks' on one's final sector thus any discretion would end at that point. Thereafter, and under normal circumstances, there is a nominal period of perhaps 30 minutes between end of FDP and off duty.
If away from base and travelling to a hotel then this is covered under FTL's 'travelling time'. Under normal circumstances what time one may reach a hotel bears no reflection on the FDP, DP or discretion.
If your 'links' to the CAA say otherwise then they are talking from their butt!
This has already been covered with the Emerald Guys and previously established, before your recent posts, that Emerald are not producing illegal rosters but it is untrained Operations staff changing rosters without checking or indeed understanding the FTL's.
Say Again claims this to be illegal rostering and I guess from his personal point of view, that he finds he has been rostered illegally, he feels justified to say this but, Emerald are not producing illegal rosters, they are however not training their staff correctly if at all!
It is not so unusual for a pilot not to clearly understand FTL's and you yourself have just proved this point.
The FDP does not end when one goes off duty at base or when one reaches the hotel if away from base.
The FDP ends when one is 'on blocks' on one's final sector thus any discretion would end at that point. Thereafter, and under normal circumstances, there is a nominal period of perhaps 30 minutes between end of FDP and off duty.
If away from base and travelling to a hotel then this is covered under FTL's 'travelling time'. Under normal circumstances what time one may reach a hotel bears no reflection on the FDP, DP or discretion.
If your 'links' to the CAA say otherwise then they are talking from their butt!
This has already been covered with the Emerald Guys and previously established, before your recent posts, that Emerald are not producing illegal rosters but it is untrained Operations staff changing rosters without checking or indeed understanding the FTL's.
Say Again claims this to be illegal rostering and I guess from his personal point of view, that he finds he has been rostered illegally, he feels justified to say this but, Emerald are not producing illegal rosters, they are however not training their staff correctly if at all!
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What Phileas says is also my understanding. What time you get to the hotel or go off duty doesn't affect your FDP, but it does affect how much rest you need. For instance if you have done a 15 Hr duty you need 15 Hrs rest, though your Flight Duty may only have been a couple of hours. There is nothing 'illegal' about this, but you do have to have enough rest.
You cannot be asked to go into discretion, or rostered into it and our original rosters do not ever do this, Unfortunately as the roster are about as accurate musket mistakes happen constantly. A culture has seem to have been built up where crews will change their on duty times in order to not have to file discretion reports, so very few get filled in. I don't like that one at all.
You cannot be asked to go into discretion, or rostered into it and our original rosters do not ever do this, Unfortunately as the roster are about as accurate musket mistakes happen constantly. A culture has seem to have been built up where crews will change their on duty times in order to not have to file discretion reports, so very few get filled in. I don't like that one at all.