Cathay Pacific imploding.
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 39
Likes: 1
From: Lounge
Appreciate you taking the time to confirm - it's helpful to know you've no relevant knowledge of the issues here despite your implied tone of qualification on all matters Cathay. We can consider your posts accordingly.
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 128
Likes: 13
From: Asia
Still is pretty amazing that crew are either leaving in the middle of a command course to start at the bottom again with a major elsewhere or leaving having just completed a command course at CX to start again at the bottom of a major. I don't know anyone who has turned down the likes of QF to stay on at CX instead. 20 or 30 years ago the whole idea of CX T&C being so poor that walking away from a command at CX was the smartest option would have most CX crew erupting in laughter. People actually used to leave the likes of BA or AC to come to CX, let that sink in for a minute.
Joined: Aug 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 816
Likes: 230
From: Cyprus
Cathay Pacific imploding
Pickuptruck; Very true. Some of us went to extra-ordinary lengths and still didn't get in. It was the carrier of choice to hundreds of professional pilots. It's fall from such grace is nothing short of tragic. Human nature gives me a kind of satisfaction but to those who were successful in those highly competitive times must feel very sad at the current state.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: New York
Still is pretty amazing that crew are either leaving in the middle of a command course to start at the bottom again with a major elsewhere or leaving having just completed a command course at CX to start again at the bottom of a major. I don't know anyone who has turned down the likes of QF to stay on at CX instead. 20 or 30 years ago the whole idea of CX T&C being so poor that walking away from a command at CX was the smartest option would have most CX crew erupting in laughter. People actually used to leave the likes of BA or AC to come to CX, let that sink in for a minute.
They had the present POS18 in mind a very long time ago.
They just needed the opportunity.
What you guys don't seem to understand:
1.The old Cathay is dead and it won't come back.
2.The transformation includes a change from a lifetime career into just another temporary contract job - the new Cathay doesn't expect you to stay for life nor do they want you to stay for life.
3.The end game of this big transformation will be a Chinese airline with Chinese pilots on Chinese salaries.
You can whine as much as you like.
It won't change a thing.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Helsinki
Finally someone who understands what exactly is going on at Cx. Guys, just enjoy the fact that you can still fly an airplane and have a job. Many can’t even do that anymore. And as for Cx, you must accept that it’s only going to get worse or else you’ll drive yourself crazy.
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 103
Likes: 2
From: Lonely planet
Do you remember Anna talking about the lovely big transformation back then ?
They had the present POS18 in mind a very long time ago.
They just needed the opportunity.
What you guys don't seem to understand:
1.The old Cathay is dead and it won't come back.
2.The transformation includes a change from a lifetime career into just another temporary contract job - the new Cathay doesn't expect you to stay for life nor do they want you to stay for life.
3.The end game of this big transformation will be a Chinese airline with Chinese pilots on Chinese salaries.
You can whine as much as you like.
It won't change a thing.
They had the present POS18 in mind a very long time ago.
They just needed the opportunity.
What you guys don't seem to understand:
1.The old Cathay is dead and it won't come back.
2.The transformation includes a change from a lifetime career into just another temporary contract job - the new Cathay doesn't expect you to stay for life nor do they want you to stay for life.
3.The end game of this big transformation will be a Chinese airline with Chinese pilots on Chinese salaries.
You can whine as much as you like.
It won't change a thing.
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 504
Likes: 1
From: one country, one system
What you guys don't seem to understand:
1.The old Cathay is dead and it won't come back.
2.The transformation includes a change from a lifetime career into just another temporary contract job - the new Cathay doesn't expect you to stay for life nor do they want you to stay for life.
3.The end game of this big transformation will be a Chinese airline with Chinese pilots on Chinese salaries.
.
Pickuptruck; Very true. Some of us went to extra-ordinary lengths and still didn't get in. It was the carrier of choice to hundreds of professional pilots. Its Sordo, I would argue it still is the choice of hundreds fall from such grace is nothing short of tragic. Human nature gives me a kind of satisfaction but to those who were successful in those highly competitive times must feel very sad at the current state.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 24th October 2023 at 11:05.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 98
Likes: 6
From: NZ
2047 is just a number.
I can guarantee you, buy 2030, the HKD will be a thing of the past and we'll all be buying things in CNY, Cantonese will be limited to a few locals as Mandarin becomes the native language due to the filth from the north migrating to the south. The line between HK and Shenzhen will remain in place only to serve as a reminder of how good it used to be.
I can guarantee you, buy 2030, the HKD will be a thing of the past and we'll all be buying things in CNY, Cantonese will be limited to a few locals as Mandarin becomes the native language due to the filth from the north migrating to the south. The line between HK and Shenzhen will remain in place only to serve as a reminder of how good it used to be.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 657
Likes: 47
From: Asia
2047 is just a number.
I can guarantee you, buy 2030, the HKD will be a thing of the past and we'll all be buying things in CNY, Cantonese will be limited to a few locals as Mandarin becomes the native language due to the filth from the north migrating to the south. The line between HK and Shenzhen will remain in place only to serve as a reminder of how good it used to be.
I can guarantee you, buy 2030, the HKD will be a thing of the past and we'll all be buying things in CNY, Cantonese will be limited to a few locals as Mandarin becomes the native language due to the filth from the north migrating to the south. The line between HK and Shenzhen will remain in place only to serve as a reminder of how good it used to be.
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 504
Likes: 1
From: one country, one system
I disagree.
Hong Kong and its financial system is apparently useful for the Chinese as it is, otherwise it would not exist. As if Beijing needs to wait until 2047 because it says so on a piece of paper ( the same piece of paper also promises democracy). If you concur that they can do whatever they like with Hong Kong, and it's hard to deny that surely, then the only possible conclusion is that the current agreement is beneficial to them. The notion the HKD e.g. is just tolerated by China does not make sense in my opinion.
And why would it matter to us if Cantonese as a language survives? I also would argue changing a local language has been indeed done multiple times in history, look at English in the Commonwealth ( Australia debatable :-), Spanish in Latin America and French in Northern Africa, just as an example. Additionally, mandarin is only dominant in China because many other local languages and dialects have been made redundant over the past, e.g. Hakka.
Hong Kong and its financial system is apparently useful for the Chinese as it is, otherwise it would not exist. As if Beijing needs to wait until 2047 because it says so on a piece of paper ( the same piece of paper also promises democracy). If you concur that they can do whatever they like with Hong Kong, and it's hard to deny that surely, then the only possible conclusion is that the current agreement is beneficial to them. The notion the HKD e.g. is just tolerated by China does not make sense in my opinion.
And why would it matter to us if Cantonese as a language survives? I also would argue changing a local language has been indeed done multiple times in history, look at English in the Commonwealth ( Australia debatable :-), Spanish in Latin America and French in Northern Africa, just as an example. Additionally, mandarin is only dominant in China because many other local languages and dialects have been made redundant over the past, e.g. Hakka.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 25th October 2023 at 09:47.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: New York
I think a lot of people plan to stay for life, and it will be a career airline for them, just not the same type of people. Again, I think this is a one-sided western perspective. I agree recruitment might include Chinese, but this is a problem for 2030 and beyond, Pill has a point here. Personally, my main concern as a 20-30 year old would be technology rather than that.
At some stage it is likely that this airline will go Chinese, with Chinese pilots on Chinese salaries.
Of course most Chinese would see this still as a lifetime career at 'home'.
Where could pilots from Mainland China work anyways besides China ?
Sure, it might happen after 2030.
That won't make the cut for many right now and expecting a life time career (stressing on present salary that is, not on Chinese market reduced salaries).
With the relations between the US/the West and China going South and high youth unemployment in China this process will probably accelerate.
Furthermore it won't need a Taiwan invasion to kill this airline.
Sanctions on China due to weapon deliveries to Russia or whatever might be enough to stop this airline from flying to North America, Europe, etc..
It might not sound likely to you, but this powder keg named China might be taken into consideration by other pilots looking for a job and who are more interested in a stable outlook for their families.
Maybe that's part of the reasons why the seniority list is not really growing.
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 504
Likes: 1
From: one country, one system
A valid point, a swing to recruit from China is possible. The political risks you mention are fair as well, one would have to make a balanced evaluation depending on the individual alternatives, e.g. compared to Middle East or South Aftica.
Whether a lifetime career still exists in aviation at all is debatable, I am convinced In 15-20 years AI and automation in association with demographic pressure especially in China will change everything. Growth of technology will be exponential and faster than expected. Just imagine the potential savings, no FTLs, no hotel cost, no recurrent training, no leave, no sick days, no recruitment issues. You would not "only" save the cost of crew, but many more, sim instructors, dispatch, admin, etc etc. The saving potential is enormous, which is it why it will be implemented. Entering this line of work today at age 20-30 is mad in my opinion. You will end up at age 40-50 with non-transferrable skills in an obsolete profession.Best you can hope for is a job scope compared to a lonely MTR driver with corresponding pay and social status.
It's not Cathay that is imploding, its our profession.
Whether a lifetime career still exists in aviation at all is debatable, I am convinced In 15-20 years AI and automation in association with demographic pressure especially in China will change everything. Growth of technology will be exponential and faster than expected. Just imagine the potential savings, no FTLs, no hotel cost, no recurrent training, no leave, no sick days, no recruitment issues. You would not "only" save the cost of crew, but many more, sim instructors, dispatch, admin, etc etc. The saving potential is enormous, which is it why it will be implemented. Entering this line of work today at age 20-30 is mad in my opinion. You will end up at age 40-50 with non-transferrable skills in an obsolete profession.Best you can hope for is a job scope compared to a lonely MTR driver with corresponding pay and social status.
It's not Cathay that is imploding, its our profession.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 26th October 2023 at 04:31.
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 41
Likes: 3
From: Christchurch
Halo,
I've my DEFO interview in a few weeks. All said and done Cx is doing way better than the present ruck I'm stuck in.
Can yal please let me know what to expect for the interview? Anyone been through the rounds recently? I'm flying in from SFO.
Cheers
I've my DEFO interview in a few weeks. All said and done Cx is doing way better than the present ruck I'm stuck in.
Can yal please let me know what to expect for the interview? Anyone been through the rounds recently? I'm flying in from SFO.
Cheers
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 223
Likes: 66
And therein lies one of the bigger problems. CX can hire anyone from anywhere. No nationality requirements, therefore happy to hire people who will work for very little...as long as it's a bit more than the "ruck" they are leaving. No financial reward or security can survive that reality.
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 124
Likes: 54
From: Australia
At the end of the day you want to be happy & healthy, right? Cathay is not the place for that, it hasn't been for many years. Five mins on this forum and you can see a thousand reasons why. It's really pretty simple.