Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Fragrant Harbour
Reload this Page >

Cathay Pacific imploding.

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Cathay Pacific imploding.

Old 1st Nov 2023, 02:33
  #181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Australia
Age: 52
Posts: 133
Received 51 Likes on 12 Posts
At the end of the day you want to be happy & healthy, right? Cathay is not the place for that, it hasn't been for many years. Five mins on this forum and you can see a thousand reasons why. It's really pretty simple.
stevieboy330 is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2023, 11:54
  #182 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 55
Posts: 490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
How about those who don't like it leave, those who did leave enjoy their newfound happiness, and both of the former groups leave those still there/ going there in peace?

Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2023, 20:44
  #183 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Utopia
Posts: 844
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
How about those who don't like it leave, those who did leave enjoy their newfound happiness, and both of the former groups leave those still there/ going there in peace?
No way Hose! Well hang around here to spread bitterness into your nave faces and remind you of the glorious world outside Cathay Pathetic. Deal with it.
Klimax is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2023, 07:16
  #184 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
How about those who don't like it leave, those who did leave enjoy their newfound happiness, and both of the former groups leave those still there/ going there in peace?
For the non-scabs amongst us there is another option.

If you dont like it, fix it.
Progress Wanchai is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2023, 11:44
  #185 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: World
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Progress Wanchai
For the non-scabs amongst us there is another option.

If you dont like it, fix it.
onya tough guy. Of course you didnt sign cos18 then?
chards is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2023, 22:38
  #186 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 19 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
A valid point, a swing to recruit from China is possible. The political risks you mention are fair as well, one would have to make a balanced evaluation depending on the individual alternatives, e.g. compared to Middle East or South Aftica.

Whether a lifetime career still exists in aviation at all is debatable, I am convinced In 15-20 years AI and automation in association with demographic pressure especially in China will change everything. Growth of technology will be exponential and faster than expected. Just imagine the potential savings, no FTLs, no hotel cost, no recurrent training, no leave, no sick days, no recruitment issues. You would not "only" save the cost of crew, but many more, sim instructors, dispatch, admin, etc etc. The saving potential is enormous, which is it why it will be implemented. Entering this line of work today at age 20-30 is mad in my opinion. You will end up at age 40-50 with non-transferrable skills in an obsolete profession.Best you can hope for is a job scope compared to a lonely MTR driver with corresponding pay and social status.

It's not Cathay that is imploding, its our profession.
I couldn't agree more. And I would add that the AI revolution has already begun, it's just that many of us are not yet fully aware of its presence or the magnitude of its impact. In the near term, it will certainly streamline our ground-based operations. Imagine CX without the tedious IT minions!

However, this transition will eventually result in us all being replaced . We will see a ULR that typically requires a four-person crew, reduced to two, then one, and ultimately, no human pilots at all, maybe with some sort "pilot" overseeing multiple aircraft missions from a single location, stepping in only when intervention is necessary, and who will probably only have a theoretical understanding of how to fly an aeroplane - much like a 10 year old playing with flight sim on their PC.

I firmly believe we are witnessing the final phase of the traditional aviator era. It's quite possible that the last conventional pilot, as we understand the role today, has already been born.

TBL Warrior is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2023, 21:24
  #187 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Asia
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
How about those who don't like it leave, those who did leave enjoy their newfound happiness, and both of the former groups leave those still there/ going there in peace?
This is the amazing part. The number of guys who love COS 18 ,who cling to the notion that CX is better than ever. We need to work at least 21-27 hrs a month more to make up for the pay cut under COS18 and guys are begging and praying the CAD lift the 900 hr max so they can work more 110 hr months to make the same money. And they're happy to do it. Many have lost a weeks leave under COS18, no problem! I doubt the company realised just how many would probably work for nothing just to be a CX pilot. Were losing a huge bunch of 777s back to the lessors? Well that's a good thing because freights dropping off. We're losing London slots? Well that's a good thing because we burn extra gas now getting there. If you thought the Koolaid drinking was impressive in the past, try nowadays......
Pickuptruck is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2023, 06:21
  #188 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Team, sadly this will get much worse unless the pilot community rallies as a global and unified entity, such as an International ALPA, where ICAO licences are recognised as such. There is a great need to standardise licences and type ratings since, post covid, the demand to fill seats is pushing the training machine to its limits. Multinational cockpits are not the thing of the past but low hour pilots from South America, India, Russian Federation etc are now coming aboard with only basic experience and often with previous types pretty much unsuited for transition to jet equipment. In an effort to be less profligate with resources, Corporate Execs have reduced conversion times to below the bare minimum, inside ridiculously tight windows with no time to synthesise and often with unsuited cockpit pairings. This will eventually bring standards on the line to having little skin on the bone and the mantra.." safety is our greatest concern"..will become even more of a cliche than it currently is.
The pilot's associations and Unions have lost all their teeth outside the USA. Unless there is a cohesive effort to confront the machinations of ..not just the Legacy Airlines but the Low costs too, those current rosters, monthly hours and salaries will go the same way as the Maritime Industry..and that is severely south. The various Pilot Unions now have to regroup and send the strongest of messages to all the Airline Execs, that our Profession can no longer suffer the corporate tampering that has pushed post covid levels so blatantly into the banks of the shareholders and the Executive bonuses..
Tiger pork is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2023, 08:35
  #189 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: England
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pickuptruck
This is the amazing part. The number of guys who love COS 18 ,who cling to the notion that CX is better than ever. We need to work at least 21-27 hrs a month more to make up for the pay cut under COS18 and guys are begging and praying the CAD lift the 900 hr max so they can work more 110 hr months to make the same money. And they're happy to do it. Many have lost a weeks leave under COS18, no problem! I doubt the company realised just how many would probably work for nothing just to be a CX pilot. Were losing a huge bunch of 777s back to the lessors? Well that's a good thing because freights dropping off. We're losing London slots? Well that's a good thing because we burn extra gas now getting there. If you thought the Koolaid drinking was impressive in the past, try nowadays......
COS18 the best dog**** sandwich you ever ate.
Kitsune is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2023, 04:43
  #190 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Back to 'implosion', I notice that flights in and out of Aus and Europe have dropped significantly in December compared to October/November. Odd. Surely Dec is peak passenger travel
HoldenCaufield is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2023, 02:47
  #191 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: italy
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pickuptruck
This is the amazing part. The number of guys who love COS 18 ,who cling to the notion that CX is better than ever. We need to work at least 21-27 hrs a month more to make up for the pay cut under COS18 and guys are begging and praying the CAD lift the 900 hr max so they can work more 110 hr months to make the same money. And they're happy to do it. Many have lost a weeks leave under COS18, no problem! I doubt the company realised just how many would probably work for nothing just to be a CX pilot. Were losing a huge bunch of 777s back to the lessors? Well that's a good thing because freights dropping off. We're losing London slots? Well that's a good thing because we burn extra gas now getting there. If you thought the Koolaid drinking was impressive in the past, try nowadays......
It's unbelievable what certain nationalities would do to compensate what executives have done to the salary and still, no complains. Unbe ******* lievable.
WhatShortage is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2023, 08:48
  #192 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 55
Posts: 490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Implosion imminent

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/cathay-pacific-favours-airbus-over-boeing-in-$2.71-bln-freighter-deal

Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 10th Dec 2023, 12:12
  #193 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Nimbus
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Let's quickly train another 800 cadets to crew the new planes, that'll do it.
Zapp_Brannigan is offline  
Old 10th Dec 2023, 16:16
  #194 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ask Crew Control
Age: 46
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Kitsune
COS18 the best dog**** sandwich you ever ate.
Never a truer word spoken !!!!!

The Cav 😂
Cavallier is offline  
Old 10th Dec 2023, 16:54
  #195 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: by the seaside
Age: 74
Posts: 546
Received 13 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by Tiger pork
Team, sadly this will get much worse unless the pilot community rallies as a global and unified entity, such as an International ALPA, where ICAO licences are recognised as such. There is a great need to standardise licences and type ratings since, post covid, the demand to fill seats is pushing the training machine to its limits. Multinational cockpits are not the thing of the past but low hour pilots from South America, India, Russian Federation etc are now coming aboard with only basic experience and often with previous types pretty much unsuited for transition to jet equipment. In an effort to be less profligate with resources, Corporate Execs have reduced conversion times to below the bare minimum, inside ridiculously tight windows with no time to synthesise and often with unsuited cockpit pairings. This will eventually bring standards on the line to having little skin on the bone and the mantra.." safety is our greatest concern"..will become even more of a cliche than it currently is.
The pilot's associations and Unions have lost all their teeth outside the USA. Unless there is a cohesive effort to confront the machinations of ..not just the Legacy Airlines but the Low costs too, those current rosters, monthly hours and salaries will go the same way as the Maritime Industry..and that is severely south. The various Pilot Unions now have to regroup and send the strongest of messages to all the Airline Execs, that our Profession can no longer suffer the corporate tampering that has pushed post covid levels so blatantly into the banks of the shareholders and the Executive bonuses..
swissair did that building up crossair and ignored the warnings until an ex aeroflot pilot having been trained on Russian artificial horizons which indicate the opposite way than Western ones rolled upside down and made a smoking hole in Rumlang..Good luck ..I won't be flying with your lot again.
blind pew is offline  
Old 10th Dec 2023, 22:19
  #196 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Utopia
Posts: 844
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Tiger pork
Team, sadly this will get much worse unless the pilot community rallies as a global and unified entity, such as an International ALPA, where ICAO licences are recognised as such. There is a great need to standardise licences and type ratings since, post covid, the demand to fill seats is pushing the training machine to its limits. Multinational cockpits are not the thing of the past but low hour pilots from South America, India, Russian Federation etc are now coming aboard with only basic experience and often with previous types pretty much unsuited for transition to jet equipment. In an effort to be less profligate with resources, Corporate Execs have reduced conversion times to below the bare minimum, inside ridiculously tight windows with no time to synthesise and often with unsuited cockpit pairings. This will eventually bring standards on the line to having little skin on the bone and the mantra.." safety is our greatest concern"..will become even more of a cliche than it currently is.
The pilot's associations and Unions have lost all their teeth outside the USA. Unless there is a cohesive effort to confront the machinations of ..not just the Legacy Airlines but the Low costs too, those current rosters, monthly hours and salaries will go the same way as the Maritime Industry..and that is severely south. The various Pilot Unions now have to regroup and send the strongest of messages to all the Airline Execs, that our Profession can no longer suffer the corporate tampering that has pushed post covid levels so blatantly into the banks of the shareholders and the Executive bonuses..
Yes, the consequences are to become reality very, soon, and the bizav community is seeing that right now as well. Nobody is bringing the truth to the table just yet, but soon enough after claiming some more lives that will all change. The same will happen with commercial airline operations, where we are already seeing a substantial increase in incidents and close to accident occurrences. Bring out the popcorns and watch - its going to be a nasty 1-3 years ahead of "why did "we" allow this to happen!. You have been warned - clowns.
Klimax is offline  
Old 10th Dec 2023, 22:21
  #197 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Utopia
Posts: 844
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by blind pew
swissair did that building up crossair and ignored the warnings until an ex aeroflot pilot having been trained on Russian artificial horizons which indicate the opposite way than Western ones rolled upside down and made a smoking hole in Rumlang..Good luck ..I won't be flying with your lot again.
Jez, yeah the Swiss genius Crossair - the amount of accidents within that branch. Yikes.
Klimax is offline  
Old 11th Dec 2023, 08:19
  #198 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 55
Posts: 490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Implosion, explosion, what is it now? 😂
Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2023, 12:04
  #199 (permalink)  
Rie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Klimax
Jez, yeah the Swiss genius Crossair - the amount of accidents within that branch. Yikes.
Isn't one of the higher ups at UO ex-Crossair? might explain some things
Rie is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2023, 14:19
  #200 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: Disco Bay
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Or operate single pilots ops lol
cadetjockey is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.