AOAE sells out.
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I think he is right...a lot of guys have left the AOA after getting the the subsidy refund.
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Improvements?? Everyone of us can expect further erosion to our terms and conditions. What is happening now in HK is the perfect storm of opportunity to extract more concessions from the most divided pilot group in the history of aviation. Sorry if that's not pleasing, but it is the truth. If there was any doubt about the value of a career in CX, that is now ended. You would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see the iceberg just ahead of this Titanic.
(oh, and Pickuptruck, the based unions aren't f*cking over the HK pilots, the company is f*cking over the HK pilots. The based pilots are simply using what leverage they have to improve and protect their conditions, just like we would here in HK if we had any self respect and balls).
(oh, and Pickuptruck, the based unions aren't f*cking over the HK pilots, the company is f*cking over the HK pilots. The based pilots are simply using what leverage they have to improve and protect their conditions, just like we would here in HK if we had any self respect and balls).
Not F*cking over , Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
ATY don't insult my intelligence. Every base, and the DPA for that matter, have taken what they can at the expense of AOA HKG.
F*ck it, I'll go on. The London bases not opening because although HKG based guys wanted to bid for what the company was offering, AOAE wouldn't let the company release them. The DPA, getting healthy pay raises for their members based on rejecting a training ban while helping the company with the DPA's "training solution", the leverage of which they didn't have without TB/CC.
ATY what you're saying is utter utter utter BS.
Last edited by Pickuptruck; 30th Dec 2019 at 23:13.
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So the Aussies have just forced the company to give Australian based guys first dibs on all the long patterns airbus patterns out of Hong Kong. So, irrespective of seniority, if you're on the Airbus fleet in Hkg it just got way harder to be able to bid for any long layovers in Europe. And let's not forget the Aussie base putting their hands up for training positions with the full support of AOAA. Or seniority weighing and the ramifications for HKG based rosters. Maybe it was the AOAA GC member telling me "We don't give a f*ck about the HKG base, were here for us"
Not F*cking over , Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
ATY don't insult my intelligence. Every base, and the DPA for that matter, have taken what they can at the expense of AOA HKG.
F*ck it, I'll go on. The London bases not opening because although HKG based guys wanted to bid for what the company was offering, AOAE wouldn't let the company release them. The DPA, getting healthy pay raises for their members based on rejecting a training ban while helping the company with the DPA's "training solution", the leverage of which they didn't have without TB/CC.
ATY what you're saying is utter utter utter BS.
Not F*cking over , Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
ATY don't insult my intelligence. Every base, and the DPA for that matter, have taken what they can at the expense of AOA HKG.
F*ck it, I'll go on. The London bases not opening because although HKG based guys wanted to bid for what the company was offering, AOAE wouldn't let the company release them. The DPA, getting healthy pay raises for their members based on rejecting a training ban while helping the company with the DPA's "training solution", the leverage of which they didn't have without TB/CC.
ATY what you're saying is utter utter utter BS.
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So the Aussies have just forced the company to give Australian based guys first dibs on all the long patterns airbus patterns out of Hong Kong. So, irrespective of seniority, if you're on the Airbus fleet in Hkg it just got way harder to be able to bid for any long layovers in Europe. And let's not forget the Aussie base putting their hands up for training positions with the full support of AOAA. Or seniority weighing and the ramifications for HKG based rosters. Maybe it was the AOAA GC member telling me "We don't give a f*ck about the HKG base, were here for us"
Not F*cking over , Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
ATY don't insult my intelligence. Every base, and the DPA for that matter, have taken what they can at the expense of AOA HKG.
F*ck it, I'll go on. The London bases not opening because although HKG based guys wanted to bid for what the company was offering, AOAE wouldn't let the company release them. The DPA, getting healthy pay raises for their members based on rejecting a training ban while helping the company with the DPA's "training solution", the leverage of which they didn't have without TB/CC.
ATY what you're saying is utter utter utter BS.
Not F*cking over , Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
ATY don't insult my intelligence. Every base, and the DPA for that matter, have taken what they can at the expense of AOA HKG.
F*ck it, I'll go on. The London bases not opening because although HKG based guys wanted to bid for what the company was offering, AOAE wouldn't let the company release them. The DPA, getting healthy pay raises for their members based on rejecting a training ban while helping the company with the DPA's "training solution", the leverage of which they didn't have without TB/CC.
ATY what you're saying is utter utter utter BS.
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CXorcist, couldn't agree more.
Unless pickup truck is privy to secret negotiations that none of us mere mortals know about, I'd be inclined to think he's full of it. Sounds like he has a blocked valve. Sure some of the based guys are picking up occasional ULH flights, but that's just part and parcel of CMP. Do you hear Aus based guy's complaining if a hk guy does an Aus trip? Seriously, it just sounds like pick up truck has a thing against any based guys. I'd like one, but not under the current penalizing situation.
We all should be pulling together, not facilitating the interunion or interpilot fighting which the Company use to divide and conquer.
Perhaps in HK, our union could foster and generate the same level of engagement that the Australian union have with their pilots.
I'm told by a based colleague, that their vote, which finished yesterday on their very lengthy negotiations, had a a near total TURNOUT where 97% of the members voted on the companies offer.
Of those voters, around 92% voted against in a very cohesive statement to reinforce the disconnect with the companies attempt to reduce T&C's.
Perhaps if we in hk had such a similar united approach as the Aus based guys, and had a better voter turnout, the result could only be better surely?
Unless pickup truck is privy to secret negotiations that none of us mere mortals know about, I'd be inclined to think he's full of it. Sounds like he has a blocked valve. Sure some of the based guys are picking up occasional ULH flights, but that's just part and parcel of CMP. Do you hear Aus based guy's complaining if a hk guy does an Aus trip? Seriously, it just sounds like pick up truck has a thing against any based guys. I'd like one, but not under the current penalizing situation.
We all should be pulling together, not facilitating the interunion or interpilot fighting which the Company use to divide and conquer.
Perhaps in HK, our union could foster and generate the same level of engagement that the Australian union have with their pilots.
I'm told by a based colleague, that their vote, which finished yesterday on their very lengthy negotiations, had a a near total TURNOUT where 97% of the members voted on the companies offer.
Of those voters, around 92% voted against in a very cohesive statement to reinforce the disconnect with the companies attempt to reduce T&C's.
Perhaps if we in hk had such a similar united approach as the Aus based guys, and had a better voter turnout, the result could only be better surely?
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The jelly fish and his minions are laughing it up while they put the screws to all the unions. They set the deck long ago by pitting the pilot groups against each with multiple contracts with conflicting terms and conditions. The fear that one group will screw them so we better screw then first mentality has led to a toxic environment. The unions are no different, with 5 different associations with differing interests and no coordination to speak of. Each union is represented with individuals who have selfish interests that generally do not always represent the best interests of the pilot body. I think we can all agree that maybe pilots shouldn’t be left to over seeing our union. In Hong Kong we are witnessing one of the most divisive GCs in my memory. An elected body that after the membership overwhelmingly rejected their proposal they dug their heels in and refuse to let New blood in who may actually work for the members instead of being company moles.
i would think it’s safe to say there is a swamp in the AOA and it needs to be drained before we ever get real representation. But I don’t think there will ever be an end to willingness of Certain individuals to Build up their own ego by willing to help out at any chance they get. But like I said the deck has been stacked against us long ago.
Happy New Year.
i would think it’s safe to say there is a swamp in the AOA and it needs to be drained before we ever get real representation. But I don’t think there will ever be an end to willingness of Certain individuals to Build up their own ego by willing to help out at any chance they get. But like I said the deck has been stacked against us long ago.
Happy New Year.
-and the DPA for that matter, have taken what they can at the expense of AOA HKG.
- DPA, getting healthy pay raises for their members based on rejecting a training ban while helping the company with the DPA's "training solution", the leverage of which they didn't have without TB/CC.
- DPA, getting healthy pay raises for their members based on rejecting a training ban while helping the company with the DPA's "training solution", the leverage of which they didn't have without TB/CC.
The training ban was not about training CX pilots. It was an industrial leverage. A separate issue is why were KA pilots training CX pilots? I never agreed though was never presented as a DPA member with AOA objections. For all the huff and puff, the numbers seemed negligible in the end and it surprised me KA 's training capacity not utilised fully.
So what else should I have done for you professionally Pickuptruck? Keep your moral lashings reasonable and accurate though !
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Not sure about the accuracy of your rant, but you come across as unhinged. As for longer patterns for Oz based Airbus pilots, it makes sense to me. Longer layovers in Europe or elsewhere if integrating from Oz via HK seems safer to me. I’m sure the BAM would agree. I’m not sure why that would even have to be negotiated. Seems like common sense.
At the moment the company isn’t giving an inch, the bases have legal leverage through their contract on the base so something or someone has to give.
The based unions are doing the best for their members. As they should. If you’re on a base I’m full of **** because you are at the end of the day taking from your colleagues. If you’re in hkg I’m full of **** because the other (awkward) option is you stand up to this.
Everything I’ve mentioned has been there to be read on AOA and Yammer, burying your head in the sand is way easier though.
And calling me unhinged is easier than admitting the truth.
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So a year 6 F/O on a base should have bidding seniority over a year 10 F/O who is based in Hong Kong? Makes sense. Then when you think back to the court case where the bases wanted all new command slots to only be available to those F/O already on the base, locking out Hkg skippers, it makes even more sense.
At the moment the company isn’t giving an inch, the bases have legal leverage through their contract on the base so something or someone has to give.
The based unions are doing the best for their members. As they should. If you’re on a base I’m full of **** because you are at the end of the day taking from your colleagues. If you’re in hkg I’m full of **** because the other (awkward) option is you stand up to this.
Everything I’ve mentioned has been there to be read on AOA and Yammer, burying your head in the sand is way easier though.
And calling me unhinged is easier than admitting the truth.
I think the problem is your assumption that ANY base (including HK) is entitled to ANY specific flying (layover destination, duration, etc) is wrong. Who gets what flying between separate bases is not a seniority issue. It’s determined by the CMP in conjunction with BAM to maximize productivity and minimize fatigue.
Just to be clear, whether NAM or Oz based pilots fly India is not determined by seniority. Whether EU pilots fly regional or all longhaul is not a seniority issue. Whether Kiwi pilots or HK get the Male layover is not a seniority issue. Within a base, of course seniority is important for roster construction, but not between bases. It’s like this in every airline that I’m familiar.
Btw, the AAOA rejected the TA, so the argument is moot. You should focus your energies elsewhere imo.
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Although I benefit from the (somewhat) stable rosters on a base, I do see Pickuptrucks point (and yes...it did come across as a bit of a rant). If the bases monopolise most of the productive long haul flying (not only from their own base areas to HK and back, but also other long haul areas out of HK and back), eventually the HK pilots (many of high seniority) will be reduced to doing nothing but the integrated regional bs patterns. Not only that, but they will effectively have any chance of consecutive days off being reduced to the minimum. No opportunity to commute, or even a semblance of proper lifestyle. Ultimately, there has to be some sort of balance in how the flying is distributed. Will that happen, probably not knowing CX.
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Although I benefit from the (somewhat) stable rosters on a base, I do see Pickuptrucks point (and yes...it did come across as a bit of a rant). If the bases monopolise most of the productive long haul flying (not only from their own base areas to HK and back, but also other long haul areas out of HK and back), eventually the HK pilots (many of high seniority) will be reduced to doing nothing but the integrated regional bs patterns. Not only that, but they will effectively have any chance of consecutive days off being reduced to the minimum. No opportunity to commute, or even a semblance of proper lifestyle. Ultimately, there has to be some sort of balance in how the flying is distributed. Will that happen, probably not knowing CX.
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Not arguing your fair points Cxorcist (other than I believe the bases could easily take up 60-70% of LH flying). I can only comment that there is clear evidence of the HK based pilots quality of roster deteriorating. The latest "commuting" proposal will only lead to more of the same. On a base, we at least are guaranteed 4-6 long haul sectors a month. My best friend, still in HK, is lucky to get 2 LH sectors a month, and the rest is miserable integrated crap. Ultimately, CX is probably focused on making things more and more difficult for everyone, no matter where based, in order to coerce contract conditions (witness the latest comment regarding the Oz bases). I might add that it is in CX's interest to degrade the HK rosters, in order to force more people to elect the commuting roster package. No one is immune from the machinations of our management, only that the HK pilots seem to be getting the worse of everything right now. It really goes to show how different legal systems either hinder CX management, or allow them free reign. No prizes for guessing which one of those two realities HK falls into.
