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Worth trying to go to CX

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Worth trying to go to CX

Old 10th Nov 2018, 18:55
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Nov 2018
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Worth trying to go to CX

So looking through most of these threads everyone seems disappointed in the new contract that CX has come out with for its pilots. Being honest didn't get the whole scoop of it from here/people I know that work at CX. I am looking for something to live overseas somewhere and work where my wife and young child could come with me and I wouldn't be away at work for consecutive weeks at a time. Currently I work probably 16-20+ days a month (away 3 days at a time mostly) and fly my bag off to barely make over $100k CAD.

So guess my question is in your opinion with the new contract would it be worth someone to come over and work for a couple years at CX to see HK and the areas around it and fly for a different airline and get a type rating on a larger aircraft? or worth just avoiding CX all together. Also any insight on general life as a pilot at CX would be great as far as pairing lengths, days away from home, days worked in a month.

I do understand you're new contract is bad compared to previous versions, but as far as Canadian Airlines go they don't have anything that look that worthwhile anymore either.

thanks,
metalbusdriver is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2018, 21:52
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: nfa
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Take some more time and read a few more threads!

If you are making $100k in Canada, your quality of life is already an order of magnitude better than what you'll end up with in Hong Kong. Wife and kid locked in a 800sqft apartment and if your kid doesn't have asthma yet - he will. You'll spend hours riding to and from the Airport only to spend hours riding around in airplanes that you'll never touch. 5yrs is optimistic as a SO right now.

Stay home. Stay married. Stay being a father.
bm330 is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2018, 22:05
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 267
What you have to make in order to live at a given standard of living depends completely on where you are. Raw numbers mean nothing.

As has been said, do some research. Don't know exactly where you live in Canada, but I am completely certain you will wind up MUCH worse off if you go to HKG (especially on the new POS 18). And also have education and medical to deal with on top of everything else.

Sometimes the grass is really greener. In your case I strongly believe it is not. But talk to someone who works here and is objective as to what is going on. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who will say it's a good idea to come over.

The fact that most SOs who have other options (as well as many FOs and even CNs who had joined when things were relatively good and thought this might be a career airline) are leaving (and dumping a whole bunch of seniority in the process) should tell you something. In fact, I don't know ANYONE who is looking at a career of doing this (and who might have other options) who is NOT leaving or in the process of finding a new job.

Don't whine later you were not warned.
Slasher1 is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2018, 22:15
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 7
It really is a no brainer. Learn from our mistakes. You canít make CX something itís not just because you wish it to be. There is no doubt that your QOL would decline in HK compared to Canada on 100k. This gig is now for no and low flight time bachelors and bachelorettes only. Even those I would encourage to go get real flying time elsewhere in the bush or at regional airlines and then join real airlines.
cxorcist is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2018, 23:41
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 48
It's not worth it any more unless CX is forced to improve the contract. The fact that there are Cathay pilots going to WS Encore speaks volumes. CX was my career goal, but after researching a ton on here and talking to a few pilots working there, I think it's much better to either stay in Canada or explore other options. If you're looking to work overseas, I would look into Sunwing. During the winter you fly to the Caribbean from Canada, and during the summer when demand is low to Sun destinations from Canada, Sunwing sends their planes (and pilots) to fly in Europe on behalf of TUI to European holiday destinations. They pay for your house and a car while you're abroad which sounds sweet. I'm probably going to apply once I have the required experience. You get jet time too which would help you down the road either to go overseas or skip the regionals and go to AC/WS/TS.

As an aside, I talked to an AC 777 Cpt the other day. He said a couple people in his graduating class went on to Cathay and and I asked him what he thought of the place. All he told me was that he's never heard of anyone trying to escape Canada.. Food for thought I suppose.
Porterboy is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 00:17
  #6 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Nov 2018
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Thanks,

Answers are about what I expected but thought I would ask anyways idea is probably away on the back burner, is there anywhere to work in HK anymore that is good? I do have some experience and thinking they still did direct entry FO but even that at CX seems not worth it. Talked more with an old friend who worked there and between him and the forum seems like 90% of the pilot are trying to leave. The point about guys leaving to Encore makes me laugh damn must be bad there then.
metalbusdriver is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 02:04
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Age: 31
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Originally Posted by metalbusdriver View Post
Thanks,

, is there anywhere to work in HK anymore that is good? I do have some experience .
Not much choice in HK, other than CX, KA ( same contract now) or HKA/HKE, or corporate.

HKA suffering a recruitment freeze due the reorganisation of its parent group Hainan . Time will tell if it survives, don’t hold your breath. A takeover by Lufthansa group is the only possible silver lining.

KA , direct entry FO. But same challenging remuneration issues as cx if you are married with a kid. Regional flying is not ideal, as 80% is china centred.

Corporate, you need contacts or expertise in this area.

Its been mentioned that you will live in 800 sq feet. This is optimistic. I would fly to HK and actually view what you reasonably would expect to rent at the price point you are looking at. Most C scalers rent for around 20k/ month (us$2500) and if married then around US$3500/ month. This comes out of the total package quoted by the airline. Don’t forget you will join on so called D scale, below C scalers.

Most B scale incumbents in KA or CX get their mortgages or rent paid ( upto US14000/month) , and earn around 30% more total salary than the contract on offer to you, with 50% more leave.

Go figure how happy that will make you feel 2-3 years down the line, when you visit your B scale captain buddy in his 30 million dollar condo all paid for by the same company that begrudgingly pays you so little .
Krone is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 02:08
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 318
DEFO is still available.

Rumour a dozen Canadians just got acceptance letters back home.

If you want the rating come for it, DEFOs have come and gone within 6 months, if you have an exit strategy no harm in wasting CXs time and money for your benifit.

The interview process may be worthwhile too for future applications.

But don't get trapped long term!
Avinthenews is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 02:38
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: hong kong
Posts: 181
CX/KA is no longer a career airline. Joining as a DEFO single person with a 5 yr plan is the only viable option. It's a stepping stone to where you want to get to.
The FUB is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 03:00
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
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Excellent advice from a number of contributers. Take their sound advice.
unitedabx is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 04:10
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Somewhere Smelly
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Originally Posted by Krone View Post

Most B scale incumbents in KA or CX get their mortgages or rent paid ( upto US14000/month) , and earn around 30% more total salary than the contract on offer to you, with 50% more leave.

Go figure how happy that will make you feel 2-3 years down the line, when you visit your B scale captain buddy in his 30 million dollar condo all paid for by the same company that begrudgingly pays you so little .
Don't underestimate the significance of this comment. You'd need to have really thick skin not to be affected by this fact.
Babbalito is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 05:34
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 16
Thread hi-jack. Lessonlearnt is correct about HK being an expensive place to live. Do your homework.

Lessonlearnt,

We are in CC/TB for HKPA. Are we in for ARAPA? What would you like us B scalers to do? Take less and give it to you? For the good of the group? Are you going to donate a portion of your compensation for the unfortunate guys ďforcedĒ to sign COS18? Iím curious what youíd like us to do? Iíve seen no strike motions put forth by the brave SOs and JFOs fighting the good fight...all they excel it is whining and showing a complete lack of ability to fly airplanes. Which is expected since these guys couldnít get hired elsewhere during a massive hiring boom!
tiredofstupidity is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 06:06
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
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Originally Posted by tiredofstupidity View Post
Thread hi-jack. Lessonlearnt is correct about HK being an expensive place to live. Do your homework.

Lessonlearnt,

We are in CC/TB for HKPA. Are we in for ARAPA? What would you like us B scalers to do? Take less and give it to you? For the good of the group? Are you going to donate a portion of your compensation for the unfortunate guys ďforcedĒ to sign COS18? Iím curious what youíd like us to do? Iíve seen no strike motions put forth by the brave SOs and JFOs fighting the good fight...all they excel it is whining and showing a complete lack of ability to fly airplanes. Which is expected since these guys couldnít get hired elsewhere during a massive hiring boom!
And I didn't see any of you dipping into your pockets to balance out the non-payment of the 13th month to the captains last year. You kept your money then !
unitedabx is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 06:11
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by metalbusdriver View Post
So looking through most of these threads everyone seems disappointed in the new contract that CX has come out with for its pilots. Being honest didn't get the whole scoop of it from here/people I know that work at CX. I am looking for something to live overseas somewhere and work where my wife and young child could come with me and I wouldn't be away at work for consecutive weeks at a time. Currently I work probably 16-20+ days a month (away 3 days at a time mostly) and fly my bag off to barely make over $100k CAD.

So guess my question is in your opinion with the new contract would it be worth someone to come over and work for a couple years at CX to see HK and the areas around it and fly for a different airline and get a type rating on a larger aircraft? or worth just avoiding CX all together. Also any insight on general life as a pilot at CX would be great as far as pairing lengths, days away from home, days worked in a month.

I do understand you're new contract is bad compared to previous versions, but as far as Canadian Airlines go they don't have anything that look that worthwhile anymore either.

thanks,
Metal

CX is a toxic airline to work for. Bitter infighting amongst ambitious but under-performing managers. A pilots union with no teeth. A cabin crew union that rules supreme. A flight ops director who cries in his lunchbreak and is weeks away from a breakdown. A pilot body so diverse with over 15 different contracts that they will never unite. And that is just the airline. Hong Kong itself is very difficult to adjust too and survive in. Take my advice, stay away and have a great career flying elsewhere. Good luck to you.
unitedabx is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 07:50
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: H.K
Posts: 63
Originally Posted by lessonlearnt View Post
Don't worry guys - your housing will be protected....LEP's would not expect anything from you. I mean asking a guy to break up his half 13th month when he gets 10k a month for HKPA is fair.... maybe the union can organise a collection box for all you struggling CAPTs.

Shame...

But lets see you sell your souls to CX for ARAPA - when you have to sign away your life for shit RP's, Clause 7 and CMP for your housing ......sure you all will sign. And who cares what other people get.
Maybe im wrong.....who knows.

But agree with all of you, saying NO one should come here.
CXIT
So I don't hear many of the HKPA crew leaving it is mostly the crew with experience and on ARAPA and we sure don't hear anything about HKPA standing up for anything, just complaining about others contracts who signed up for a proper career. Offer to pay back your free license that cost 1.4 million HKD to the company in return for more HKPA!!!

Quit trying to reduce other peoples packages to improve your own and stand up for what you think you are worth.
Samsonite is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 09:51
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 0
LL, you are now starting to come across as a raving, illiterate fool. Take some time off, polish up your resume and do yourself and everyone else a favour and find that next "dream job".

Last edited by Air Profit; 11th Nov 2018 at 12:39.
Air Profit is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 11:22
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: here
Posts: 25
LL are you high??
please stop mixing your meds before posting.
If you desperately want housing and a quick upgrade feel free to apply to EK or elsewhere.
They are desperate for suitably qualified pilots with experience.
If you are unhappy now and we all donít unite and force change by standing up to the company itís only going to get a lot worse.
With respect it sounds like you need a hug.
Wish you the best.
Kid Dynamite is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 11:30
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 135
lessonlearnt,

You think insulting the Captains in this airline is going to further your cause? Clearly, you are just coming on here to rant and vent about what bad hand you have been dealt.
You are getting exactly the contract you signed up for, yes the goalposts have changed and you are looking at 5 years as an SO, what are YOU going to do about it? Welcome to Cathay Pacific, they have been doing this since the early 90's. You were probably still breastfeeding when they brought in ASL, they did ONE command that year! We have all been screwed over by this company at some point, most of us more than once.
Your job is relief, for as long as it takes to get to the right seat. That means flying through the night drinking coffee when you would rather be sleeping, flight deck check and making the bunks. Most of us did this and we didn't bitch or moan about it like you do. THIS IS YOUR JOB, if you don't like it then piss off somewhere else.

You spout off like a real big man on PPRuNe like an anonymous coward. Bring that attitude to my flight deck and you will regret it.
Dilbert68 is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 11:56
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: hk
Posts: 25
Chaps,

Don't feed the little snowflake. He's a typical little princess whom the world owes him a everyting. LL is a little bitter muppet.
illtellyouhowitis is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2018, 14:53
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hotel
Posts: 181
The hard reality is that the days of the HKG expat are over and done with. Youbused to come here to earn some wealth.
You used to come here and even if hkg was more expensive than back home it was ok because at the end of the month you had cash left over and you could invest that via hkg 's low tax environment and over time built up some assets.

Now no more. You have no money left at the end of the month and thus make no savings. May as well stay home.

People used to come to hkg to earn a better living. The economic fundamentals have changed. Now hkg courts the mainlanders to bring their money here and take advantage of the low tax environment and increase their wealth.
No one working and earning in hkg is making a better living anymore....
missingblade is offline  

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