Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

COS18

Old 17th Sep 2018, 08:00
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Dilbert68 View Post
No FUB, I have too much self respect to stoop that low. You keep on training though, I'm sure all your friends and relatives are very impressed.

Im sure youíll keeping turning up for your PCs so spare us the hypocrisy.
Staggers is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 08:56
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ?
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Dilbert68 View Post
The trainers have the real power here. They could resign from training and bring the company to its knees but instead they will happily train their D-scale replacements. The ones that don't have their heads buried in the sand have them shoved up managements a$$es.
WAKE UP!!! You are going to get a sign or be fired contract within the next 5 years when the numbers look favorable to the company, just as they did in 1999.

You trainers have to be the most selfish or stupid people in the company.
Your comment is one of the reason nothing will ever change in Cx ( and also one of the reason why I am so happy to have left Cx). The day you will realise you have to stop barking and relying on somebody else to fight for you, maybe something will change... new joiners, trainers are not responsible, every single pilot inside the company is responsible for what’s happening, because nobody is actually ready for a war.. because a war involve casualties..The day you will organise with your friends a massive global strike with the help of AOA ( or without if you are a sufficient number) and take the risk to be fired PERSONALY, because you think the fight is worth the risk, then something will be achieved. But please stop telling people what they should do, and act. Because if you don’t go on strike for what you apparently believe in, then you will never be able to defend the trainers if they fight for you and get into trouble....
but hey, it has been years we hear the same mad dogs all night long, and everybody is at work quietly in the morning...we get used to it, and the funny thing is sadness turns into entertainment..

Anyway, I really wish you all the best for the future, and feel sorry for the attitude Cx still holds.
tithybo is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 09:00
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HK
Posts: 68
STW is on the money.

and my mates at HKA are watching. The consensus re schooling allowance, for example, screws both company’s pilots.

it’s a dog eat dog world.

JMock is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 09:09
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: F370
Posts: 194
STW,

I dont know which market you are looking at - if I went to another airline at the same rank I would be getting a 20% pay rise.

When I started at Cathay, our pay way benchmarked to lead other Oneworld peers - BA, Qantas, American. Then to match them. Then it was compared to “other major airlines”. Now we are supposed to believe that our real competition is AirAsia and Ryanair?

As for a pay rise to cover inflation, that would be great! I’d happily accept going back to the pay scale that I joined on if it was corrected for the inflation over the intervening years. I’m sure that HKPA could also easily be indexed to the rental market too. Now that would definitely reduce the decimation of the pilot body.
AtoBsafely is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 09:12
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HK
Posts: 68
but the shareholders Ato are unconcerned about your salary sliding south as long as pilots keep applying. From anywhere.

read STW again.
JMock is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 09:20
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: F370
Posts: 194
The job I’m interviewing for. I’ve had enough of this place!
AtoBsafely is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 11:12
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Around 22N 113E
Posts: 30
Your solution.

Below the glide is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 00:12
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 148
Originally Posted by Threethirty View Post
Let me think, FedEx, UPS, Delta, American, United....
Iíll just take the first one as an example. Do you actually have any idea how difficult it is to get into Fedex? An employee can sponsor one applicant every 10 years and you ain't getting a look in the door without a sponsor. Turning up with shiny 777 time isnít really much help in the big picture, sorry to say.
Which brings me to point #2, looking at the hourly pay at $304 for a year 15 captain at FedEx and then thinking thatís 16 years down the road from when you joined isnít quite correct either.
None of the USA carriers mentioned are getting you into the LHS in a widebody in under 25 years. Though Iíd love to hear if thatís changed.
Point #3, guys can do CC all they want if it makes them feel good, itís a minor inconvenience to the company with all the new trainers joining and the people helping out in every way shape and form. Iíd argue these days itís more of an inconvenience to the employee than to the company, but itís all we have. No criticism of the GC intended.
morningcoffee is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 00:18
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 267
Originally Posted by morningcoffee View Post

Iíll just take the first one as an example. Do you actually have any idea how difficult it is to get into Fedex? An employee can sponsor one applicant every 10 years and you ain't getting a look in the door without a sponsor. Turning up with shiny 777 time isnít really much help in the big picture, sorry to say.
Which brings me to point #2, looking at the hourly pay at $304 for a year 15 captain at FedEx and then thinking thatís 16 years down the road from when you joined isnít quite correct either.
None of the USA carriers mentioned are getting you into the LHS in a widebody in under 25 years. Though Iíd love to hear if thatís changed.
Point #3, guys can do CC all they want if it makes them feel good, itís a minor inconvenience to the company with all the new trainers joining and the people helping out in every way shape and form. Iíd argue these days itís more of an inconvenience to the employee than to the company, but itís all we have. No criticism of the GC intended.
Hmmmmmm.....none of my colleagues seem to have had a great deal of trouble hiring on with FedEx, UPS, and other majors.

And what is the important thing is they are really really happy and excited about their job again.
Slasher1 is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 00:36
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 236
We must roster in strict senority. If we don't the company will use the CMP to minimise costs on a minute by minute basis using the cheapest pilot.

They will roster the COS18 sods low hours so they are desperate for hours (money) and will work G days, when fatigued and when sick. Do you want to work with a fatigued / sick low hour wonder?

Roster stability will be reduced for all of us. Fairshare gives no clarity and wont be fair.
controlledrest is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 09:34
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: far west
Posts: 152
Donít worry CX management will realise in few years what they have done and will change course. As per usual CX is behind times. CX is where the US companies were 10 years ago as far as employees appreciation and value.
Also, CX supports LGBT community but DO NOT support traditional family value otherwise it will realise that NO ONE can start a family with this salaries in HK.
Meditate on it.
positionalpor is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 09:52
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 92
Many of the more senior pilots tried to warn everyone that the only system that works in the long run is "strict seniority". Many of you replied that we were being "selfish" and that as we were senior, we were being self-serving. Well, now you can see the main reason for strict seniority: with a whole new, separate COS, they can use the non-seniority rostering system (which we chose) to effectively provide more efficient rosters for the COS18 pilots (to get their hours up), and give us the remaining rubbish. We've done it to ourselves, because we wouldn't adopt the only proven system in civil aviation. I hate to say I told you so....
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 11:29
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 307
Wait till type transfers are tweaked in only the way CX can to move COS18 crew where they want.

If anything is achieved by CC it must be

TYPE TRANSFERS IN STRICT SENIORITY including crew being able to downgrade for LIFESTYLE choice!
Avinthenews is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 12:30
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 92
CMP and COS18 will be looked back on as the moment in time that CX died as a career airline for pilots. We can argue all we like, that will be shown to be fact in hindsight. Its time for anyone with hopes of a viable career to wake up to reality and make a move as soon as possible. It is over.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 13:36
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by Avinthenews View Post
Wait till type transfers are tweaked in only the way CX can to move COS18 crew where they want.

If anything is achieved by CC it must be

TYPE TRANSFERS IN STRICT SENIORITY including crew being able to downgrade for LIFESTYLE choice!
The first example of fleet transfer abuse will be current 777DCP staying on type for his command. Everyone else has had to move the A fleet but not our James.
unitedabx is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 14:23
  #116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by morningcoffee View Post


None of the USA carriers mentioned are getting you into the LHS in a widebody in under 25 years. Though Iíd love to hear if thatís changed.
It has at FedEx. LHS widebody is half that time per the last system bid. Of course, FedEx's fleet skews toward the heavy side. LHS on the 757 in under 5.
CaliforniaPilot is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 14:29
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 65
Posts: 688
COSPLAY18 in all its glory, brought to you by the Jellyfish and his partner the Ayatollah.




Last edited by VR-HFX; 19th Sep 2018 at 09:15.
VR-HFX is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 14:35
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 29
There is a lot more to a career than the time it takes to get to the left seat.

I’ll also point out that upgrading at the US carriers (and Some EU) is often delayed by choice. A very senior FO with their choice of schedules and fleet (because of the seniority system) almost always has a significantly better schedule and in some cases better pay than a junior captain.

CX ex is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 16:21
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nippi
Posts: 236
Originally Posted by CaliforniaPilot View Post
It has at FedEx. LHS widebody is half that time per the last system bid. Of course, FedEx's fleet skews toward the heavy side. LHS on the 757 in under 5.
Who cares about the seat. Itís about the $$$ and lifestyle. CX can not touch the yanks.
DropKnee is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2018, 04:38
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: FL370
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
...provide more efficient rosters for the COS18 pilots (to get their hours up), and give us the remaining rubbish...
I would have thought it would be the opposite actually. Those on COS 99/08 will get absolutely flogged, as we basically get paid the same regardless of hours (obviously no overtime though), whilst those on COS 18 will take a second 20% pay cut to fly substantially less than the target.
gretzky99 is offline  

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