Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

COS18

Old 16th Sep 2018, 07:18
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 392
By "AOA reps" I guess you mean the elected GC.

Trust me, they will do whatever the membership wants them to do.

Take an informal poll next time you have a chance, United, and ask how many of your fellow workers are actually willing to increase the industrial pressure?
OK4Wire is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2018, 08:15
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by OK4Wire View Post
By "AOA reps" I guess you mean the elected GC.

Trust me, they will do whatever the membership wants them to do.

Take an informal poll next time you have a chance, United, and ask how many of your fellow workers are actually willing to increase the industrial pressure?
"They will do whatever the membership wants them to do "!!!!!!!!!!!
The membership want leadership not sheep. If they can't offer some form of guidance and leadership then resign and make way for others willing to take up the fight. This is not the time for well wishing pen pushers. This is a time for action men/women.
unitedabx is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2018, 10:05
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 107
The trainers have the real power here. They could resign from training and bring the company to its knees but instead they will happily train their D-scale replacements. The ones that don't have their heads buried in the sand have them shoved up managements a$$es.
WAKE UP!!! You are going to get a sign or be fired contract within the next 5 years when the numbers look favorable to the company, just as they did in 1999.

You trainers have to be the most selfish or stupid people in the company.
Dilbert68 is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2018, 10:42
  #104 (permalink)  
okm
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 27
Spot on Dilbert.
okm is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2018, 12:07
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: hong kong
Posts: 183
Guess you're a trainer in waiting Dilbert
The FUB is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2018, 13:00
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 107
No FUB, I have too much self respect to stoop that low. You keep on training though, I'm sure all your friends and relatives are very impressed.
Dilbert68 is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 01:28
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HK
Posts: 696
So, so far the view is:
KA pilots should do something
Trainers should do something
GC should do something
Freehills is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 06:06
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by Freehills View Post
So, so far the view is:
KA pilots should do something
Trainers should do something
GC should do something
The HKAOA and DPA should do something and yet not a constructive word from either. The typhoon has passed boys. Time to actually come out of your dugouts and do something for the members who elected you.
unitedabx is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 06:57
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by unitedabx View Post
The HKAOA and DPA should do something and yet not a constructive word from either. The typhoon has passed boys. Time to actually come out of your dugouts and do something for the members who elected you.
Do what about what? We accepted the 0% and kept our RPA. COS18 is coming whether we like it or not. Not much appetite for doing anything in KA.
GMEDX is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 07:10
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 26
STW, how many stock options did you get, and when do they vest?
YeahNahYeah is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 08:59
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 324
STW pay and conditions have changed, although my COS has not there has not been a pay rise due to inflation in years so that is a reduction in pay. Conditions have changed, staff travel and rostering in particular, just ask the 747 guys. So I don't know how you can come on here and claim things have not changed
TurningFinalRWY36 is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 09:00
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by Dilbert68 View Post
No FUB, I have too much self respect to stoop that low. You keep on training though, I'm sure all your friends and relatives are very impressed.

Im sure youíll keeping turning up for your PCs so spare us the hypocrisy.
Staggers is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 09:56
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ?
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Dilbert68 View Post
The trainers have the real power here. They could resign from training and bring the company to its knees but instead they will happily train their D-scale replacements. The ones that don't have their heads buried in the sand have them shoved up managements a$$es.
WAKE UP!!! You are going to get a sign or be fired contract within the next 5 years when the numbers look favorable to the company, just as they did in 1999.

You trainers have to be the most selfish or stupid people in the company.
Your comment is one of the reason nothing will ever change in Cx ( and also one of the reason why I am so happy to have left Cx). The day you will realise you have to stop barking and relying on somebody else to fight for you, maybe something will change... new joiners, trainers are not responsible, every single pilot inside the company is responsible for what’s happening, because nobody is actually ready for a war.. because a war involve casualties..The day you will organise with your friends a massive global strike with the help of AOA ( or without if you are a sufficient number) and take the risk to be fired PERSONALY, because you think the fight is worth the risk, then something will be achieved. But please stop telling people what they should do, and act. Because if you don’t go on strike for what you apparently believe in, then you will never be able to defend the trainers if they fight for you and get into trouble....
but hey, it has been years we hear the same mad dogs all night long, and everybody is at work quietly in the morning...we get used to it, and the funny thing is sadness turns into entertainment..

Anyway, I really wish you all the best for the future, and feel sorry for the attitude Cx still holds.
tithybo is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 10:00
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HK
Posts: 21
STW is on the money.

and my mates at HKA are watching. The consensus re schooling allowance, for example, screws both company’s pilots.

it’s a dog eat dog world.

JMock is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 10:09
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: F370
Posts: 191
STW,

I dont know which market you are looking at - if I went to another airline at the same rank I would be getting a 20% pay rise.

When I started at Cathay, our pay way benchmarked to lead other Oneworld peers - BA, Qantas, American. Then to match them. Then it was compared to “other major airlines”. Now we are supposed to believe that our real competition is AirAsia and Ryanair?

As for a pay rise to cover inflation, that would be great! I’d happily accept going back to the pay scale that I joined on if it was corrected for the inflation over the intervening years. I’m sure that HKPA could also easily be indexed to the rental market too. Now that would definitely reduce the decimation of the pilot body.
AtoBsafely is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 10:12
  #116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HK
Posts: 21
but the shareholders Ato are unconcerned about your salary sliding south as long as pilots keep applying. From anywhere.

read STW again.
JMock is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 10:20
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: F370
Posts: 191
The job I’m interviewing for. I’ve had enough of this place!
AtoBsafely is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2018, 12:12
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Around 22N 113E
Posts: 30
Your solution.

Below the glide is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 01:12
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 159
Originally Posted by Threethirty View Post
Let me think, FedEx, UPS, Delta, American, United....
Iíll just take the first one as an example. Do you actually have any idea how difficult it is to get into Fedex? An employee can sponsor one applicant every 10 years and you ain't getting a look in the door without a sponsor. Turning up with shiny 777 time isnít really much help in the big picture, sorry to say.
Which brings me to point #2, looking at the hourly pay at $304 for a year 15 captain at FedEx and then thinking thatís 16 years down the road from when you joined isnít quite correct either.
None of the USA carriers mentioned are getting you into the LHS in a widebody in under 25 years. Though Iíd love to hear if thatís changed.
Point #3, guys can do CC all they want if it makes them feel good, itís a minor inconvenience to the company with all the new trainers joining and the people helping out in every way shape and form. Iíd argue these days itís more of an inconvenience to the employee than to the company, but itís all we have. No criticism of the GC intended.
morningcoffee is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 01:18
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 156
Originally Posted by morningcoffee View Post

Iíll just take the first one as an example. Do you actually have any idea how difficult it is to get into Fedex? An employee can sponsor one applicant every 10 years and you ain't getting a look in the door without a sponsor. Turning up with shiny 777 time isnít really much help in the big picture, sorry to say.
Which brings me to point #2, looking at the hourly pay at $304 for a year 15 captain at FedEx and then thinking thatís 16 years down the road from when you joined isnít quite correct either.
None of the USA carriers mentioned are getting you into the LHS in a widebody in under 25 years. Though Iíd love to hear if thatís changed.
Point #3, guys can do CC all they want if it makes them feel good, itís a minor inconvenience to the company with all the new trainers joining and the people helping out in every way shape and form. Iíd argue these days itís more of an inconvenience to the employee than to the company, but itís all we have. No criticism of the GC intended.
Hmmmmmm.....none of my colleagues seem to have had a great deal of trouble hiring on with FedEx, UPS, and other majors.

And what is the important thing is they are really really happy and excited about their job again.
Slasher1 is offline  

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