Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.


Old 12th Sep 2018, 06:29
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 101

Oh dear
Oh dear
Oh dear
Hydrolix is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 06:33
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: 852
Posts: 34
Designed to Repel Top Talent
Shoebox is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 06:46
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 61
Just when you thought this place couldn't get any worse! If they can't attract talent now, how do they think they are going to with a massive reduction (destruction) in conditions?

At least we will know the I.Q. of anyone joining on these conditions...
Some How I'm Tired is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 06:46
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 520
Aimed at Top Talent from the DFO’s homeland
AQIS Boigu is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 06:48
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: FL370
Posts: 42
Any chance the AOA will come to the conclusion that now is the perfect time to withhold ALL goodwill, and continue CC, including through the weekend and any unfortunately timed weather that might be present?
gretzky99 is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 06:49
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: planet ****witt
Age: 34
Posts: 43
Designed to undermine your condition of service. Good luck getting an adequate increase in the future with a new D scale.

Good job painting the future for all of us who have not applied to airlines back home. Such a pity
reazasassain is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 07:12
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 421
All stick and no carrot.

And the real reason for CMP is brought up:

"Target annual block hours have been set at a high, but attainable level [...] and will be supported by the new CMP enabling pilots to achieve target productivity levels." I assume that will be 900?

Thank you, HKAOA.
OK4Wire is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 07:17
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: FL370
Posts: 42 estimated at 70% fixed and 30% variable..
More importantly, if you’re not near 900, it’s now a 30% paycut!
gretzky99 is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 07:30
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: New zealand
Posts: 1
Thatís 900 stick hours, not credit hours I assume. What is the pfund contribution % for ground staff in HKG?.
Panhandle is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 07:32
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 296
How do we know it's 900 max it could be 1200 or no bunk credit, we have also received a cut as we will eventually be doing all regional for maximum productivity and minimum hours the new crew will do all the hours just to get a full pay cheque.

We are the HKAOA what will we do? Trainers are you going to train yourself into a lower pay scale?

I'm all right Jack 😠
Avinthenews is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 07:47
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: HK
Posts: 54
If any trainer hasn't left training already then they won't leave over COS18, lets be realistic
Firefly47 is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 08:04
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 513

Eligible for discretionary year end bonus and profit share🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪

Sadly, things will not change here. For those with options it would be prudent to explore and act on them; for those yet to join, itís buyer beware!

The embarrassment continues...
raven11 is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 08:09
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 43
Posts: 988
With this new contract surely we need to demand CMP requests are awarded in strict seniority. Transparency will be the only way to assure those on 08/99 are not just given the low productive trips resulting in min days off, but reaching 84 hours.
SloppyJoe is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 08:13
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 94
Where do I sign?
After all I love paying 50% of my gross wage to rent a semi decent (by HK standards) size village house in the middle of nowhere!
At least Emirates gives you that for free with utilities included if that is your comparison .....
Jnr380 is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 08:36
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 0
Many of those who commented on COS18 above are the very same guys who keep on telling LEP about how bad their package is. For years and years now.

Will you now continue the same genius strategy with those on COS18?

All you achieve is a perpetual big fat No in all future negotiations, meaning no pay rise and no secured housing deal.A constant impasse plus the occasional letter in the mailbox informing about the next unilateral change.
Is that what you want??

You guys just have to understand, pretty please, sugar plum with a cherry on top, pleeeeeeeease:

The market has changed,or at least the company thinks it has, either way, like it or not, they will probably get enough people. Nothing to do with the IQ of the new-joiner, the level of talent etc, it is simply still a better option than flying King Airs out of Kigali or working in a cubicle in Shenzen. You need to understand, please, it is not about what we think is fair and just ( I certainly don't), what we deem enough to live on, it is pure and simple a question of demand and supply.

Plus nobody is or was forced to sign and join COS 18 or the former C scale, let's not forget that either.

Last edited by STW; 12th Sep 2018 at 10:43.
STW is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 08:47
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: HK
Posts: 54
STW its that attitude that has Emirates ground 40+ aircraft due pilot shortage and if cathay continue with the same attitude then very they will have to park jets even tho we haven't expanded in over 4 years
Firefly47 is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 08:55
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 0
Firefly, since YEARS you and others are fantasizing about parked aircraft. Hasn't happened or has it?

Maybe it's cheaper for an airline to park instead of paying everybody more, maybe other reasons, what do I know or care! Totally irrelevant for us. Even IF it would happen, I could not care less.
STW is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 08:59
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the land of smog
Posts: 196
Originally Posted by abaderrr View Post
From the outside in, how bad is it?
In 2014 I made $1.0M as an FO, on this contract if you work hard you could make $875,000 in 2019 with 28 fewer days of leave. An absolute joke! Honestly if you are on the hold file, DONT ACCEPT this crap!
TSIO540 is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 09:46
  #19 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 0
HKAOA totally blind sided by this new COS18. They were never even informed of it's publication. So what the **** do they do at the meetings they insist on attending with the company ? A very quick crunch of the numbers shows the FO salary to be "on a par" with most middle east operators BUT these carriers have tax free regimes and free housing and schooling. This new COS18 does not. So take away the real cost of living as a family in Hong Kong and your are 30-40% behind. Simple maths. The actual contract also permit DEC's should the market dictate.
KA union given a heads up last week.
unitedabx is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2018, 10:06
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: HK
Posts: 54
STW, Yep its cheaper for airlines to park aircraft and cancel flights than to pay its crew correctly but hey since you don't care its not your concern
Firefly47 is offline  

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