Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

COS18

Old 20th Sep 2018, 15:53
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: hongkong
Posts: 402
Well written synopsis STW. Only thing I can’t stomach is the method in which they implement it.
49’ers case in point. I don’t much appreciate the outright lying or reneging on promises either ... why make them at all?
BlunderBus is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2018, 06:41
  #142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 38
Join the dots people, COS18 is what "localisation" looks like. Most companies in HK are far further ahead in "localisation" than CX, and that's not because of any inherent racism, but because of the lack of HKATPL-holders "flippin burgers" in HK, waiting for their break into the airlines. Cathay is just following the HK trend as best they can.

Expat terms finished in 2008/9 and now a package solely pitched at local cadets has been introduced. Bases are withering on the vine and with a 5% resignation rate (mainly non-indigenous HK), it will only be 5-10 years before CX/ KA aircraft will be piloted almost exclusively by indigenous HK pilots. With those approaching 55 on COS99 being offered COS18, those desperate unfortunates will continue the trend of training their replacements (doh!!).

Take "localisation" and then overlay double SO everywhere, coupled with the global shift to pilot training/licensing pitched solely at multi-crew licensing and the abandonment of the need for any experience in military or GA/feeder prior to sitting in the front of a wide-body, COS18 makes perfect financial sense.

On the company's spreadsheets, the 5-10 year forecasts must look rosie, no expat terms, no EFP, limited increments, limited education allowance, limited PFund. All this must equate to annual savings in the order of $2,000,000,000, which will go straight into management bonuses and the shareholders' pockets... Locals are by nature compliant and the HKAOA/DPA will merely be a vehicle to arrange cheap insurance (if they are not already) Time to celebrate a win- Gin and tonics all round (but not you pilots, as you are subject to random testing)

What could possibly go wrong with this plan??
Liam Gallagher is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2018, 07:28
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: hk
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by Liam Gallagher View Post
Join the dots people, COS18 is what "localisation" looks like. Most companies in HK are far further ahead in "localisation" than CX, and that's not because of any inherent racism, but because of the lack of HKATPL-holders "flippin burgers" in HK, waiting for their break into the airlines. Cathay is just following the HK trend as best they can.

Expat terms finished in 2008/9 and now a package solely pitched at local cadets has been introduced. Bases are withering on the vine and with a 5% resignation rate (mainly non-indigenous HK), it will only be 5-10 years before CX/ KA aircraft will be piloted almost exclusively by indigenous HK pilots. With those approaching 55 on COS99 being offered COS18, those desperate unfortunates will continue the trend of training their replacements (doh!!).

Take "localisation" and then overlay double SO everywhere, coupled with the global shift to pilot training/licensing pitched solely at multi-crew licensing and the abandonment of the need for any experience in military or GA/feeder prior to sitting in the front of a wide-body, COS18 makes perfect financial sense.

On the company's spreadsheets, the 5-10 year forecasts must look rosie, no expat terms, no EFP, limited increments, limited education allowance, limited PFund. All this must equate to annual savings in the order of $2,000,000,000, which will go straight into management bonuses and the shareholders' pockets... Locals are by nature compliant and the HKAOA/DPA will merely be a vehicle to arrange cheap insurance (if they are not already) Time to celebrate a win- Gin and tonics all round (but not you pilots, as you are subject to random testing)

What could possibly go wrong with this plan??
This is exactly why HKAOA and DPA need to start fighting back by escalating what they are doing.
The contract degradation will only get worse.
Transferring all contract terms from COS to handbook is only step 1.
By comforting you that COS18 doesn't apply to you, they are trying to make existing pilots turn blind eye on COS18.
Once that is up and running, with enough COS18 pilots in the game, guess who will be attacked next?
Time to stop fantasising in your little worlds and look further.
Cant_Believe_it is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 04:15
  #144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rabbit Hutch
Posts: 74
“The Company may appoint any Officer to be a Check and Trainer.”
The above sentence in CoS 18 appears to suggest how they intend getting around the training ban in the future.
Dragon Pacific is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 07:15
  #145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 296
Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific View Post
“The Company may appoint any Officer to be a Check and Trainer.”
The above sentence in CoS 18 appears to suggest how they intend getting around the training ban in the future.
Read that as first OFFICER or second OFFICER, each to train their own!

Can't wait for the

"I'm a trainer"

"Really?"

"Yes, I'm a base training second officer or BTSO as it's known, I failed a captain on his line check the other day"

This is the type of ego they will be looking for unfortunately.

Good guys/girls will see it for what it is, but who knows how many won't.
Avinthenews is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 07:27
  #146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 579
Officer

Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific View Post
“The Company may appoint any Officer to be a Check and Trainer.”
The above sentence in CoS 18 appears to suggest how they intend getting around the training ban in the future.
I have it from good sources that the term "officer" is being amended as we speak. GMF had wanted that to read "Brushwinger" from the get go however it had been overlooked.

Bruswinger, must have 200 hrs experience of looking at airplanes.
Flex88 is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 07:32
  #147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rabbit Hutch
Posts: 74
I also read it to mean that you can be appointed to be a trainer whether you like it or not.
i.e. Press-ganged into training.
Dragon Pacific is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 07:46
  #148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 342
mmm wonder why company were less than keen to publish COS 18 in the first instance?
Starbear is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 08:15
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 195
Aspiring young brushwings galore
Pos eighteen got them in thru the door
Stuck in dingy old basements
They now train their replacements
Whining that they’re all sick, old, and poor
Slasher1 is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 08:57
  #150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 757
Wow, is this company beyond saving or what? I can't comprehend how we have fallen this low, but it is a fact: CX is dead to the hopes of professional pilots. Get out while you still can, before the next downturn, before the divorce papers, before the Dr telling your your child is sick and won't get better, before you find you can't escape. Get out now.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 16:49
  #151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: here
Posts: 138
Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
Get out now.
Have you quit?
Will IB Fayed is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2018, 08:52
  #152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 579
Accept COS 08 - Really

Read this attachment and think again.

#CXit
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
Pilot Shortage WSJ 18:10:18.pdf (1.43 MB, 252 views)
Flex88 is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2018, 19:15
  #153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nippi
Posts: 236
Originally Posted by Will IB Fayed View Post
Have you quit?
Yes, I have!!
DropKnee is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2018, 21:14
  #154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: On a few nerves apparently
Posts: 63
My mission each time I sign in is to cost much more more money in operational cost than neccessary. That means I'm out t fukkkkkk the share holders. For every penny company aims to save with these paperless apps etc, I make sure I spend ten times more than average. Good luck to cx and investors. I do the math and for every dollar cx thinks its saving I make sure I cost ten times as much on each and every flight. So keep introducing apps you morons on third floor.
VforVENDETTA is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2018, 04:15
  #155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 525
Originally Posted by VforVENDETTA View Post
My mission each time I sign in is to cost much more more money in operational cost than neccessary. That means I'm out t fukkkkkk the share holders. For every penny company aims to save with these paperless apps etc, I make sure I spend ten times more than average. Good luck to cx and investors. I do the math and for every dollar cx thinks its saving I make sure I cost ten times as much on each and every flight. So keep introducing apps you morons on third floor.
Tips for the snowflakes ?
unitedabx is offline  

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