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Dear Anna, Rupert...et al. Do you hear the approaching thunder...?

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Dear Anna, Rupert...et al. Do you hear the approaching thunder...?

Old 25th Oct 2017, 01:56
  #61 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by morningcoffee View Post
So all those C scale F/Os that had BA minimum requirements and could apply for BA in the last couple of years. On their C scale package and almost none left, maybe 2, and yet I’m supposed to believe B scalers are going in droves.
...but they WILL go....especially when they start looking beyond the 'spiky haired' stage, towards family/children/retirement... Then they will be GONE. And the trigger will be once they realise that they are losing seniority numbers at their eventual career home (obviously not CX). Then they will hit the 'exit button' in a panic and be on their way. That process is being exponentially aggravated by the company showing them just exactly what a pathetic and unstable career they can expect if they stay at CX.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 02:15
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Originally Posted by xpndr777 View Post
If any management pilot is reading this thread there should be alarm bells sounding concerning the mental health of this man who I am assuming is a Captain in your airline. He should not be allowed near the controls of anything let alone an airliner with 300 people on board .
Completely agree with this FNG.

In fact, management don’t even have to be reading this board. They’re about to find out in no uncertain fashion that many dozens, if not hundreds, of their front line crews are so mentally disturbed by the toxic circus that this place has become that they are currently unfit to be anywhere near a control seat.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 03:28
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Where is this mythical "better place"?

Almost all airlines are run by morons who have no clue how to manage staff or how to treat them properly. They are, as the septics would put it, "one trick ponys". All they can do is cut costs.

I believe that you will be going from the frying pan to the fire.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 03:31
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Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again!
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes!

Will you join in our crusade?
Who will be strong and stand with me?
Beyond the barricade
Is there a world you long to see?
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 03:50
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I am not a professional pilot but a very professional pax on your CX/ KA routes (over 100 sectors a year, since many years). It is disgusting that your Management loses fortunes on wrong fuel and currency bets and the staff (cockpit, cabin, back office) have to suffer. What message do they send to the aviation world (both professionals and pax)... As far as us passengers are concerned: declining services since years (you even manage to fit the most beautiful a/c, 350, sorry to the Boing guys, with lousy low quality insides)... Your KA delays, due to terrible cockpit crew rosters (not China ATC!!!) have become unacceptable. Your company has stolen hundreds of hours from me personally over the last few years, only because of its incompetent cost saving rosters (not ATC!!!). How many times do I take the first flight out from HKG (or an outside port) and the flight is terrible delayed due to min. crew rest... If you ask me, if no immediate complete management overhaul takes place to solve the management problems (your problem is not paying good money to good people), that was it for CX/ KA. The competition from left, right and centre (literally) are happy to capitalize and take over good CX/ KA people and ex CX/ KA customers. Shame on the CX/ KA management!
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 04:03
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They're already fighting for survival ... they just don't know it yet!!
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 04:32
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Ah you gotta love Les Mis. Were you on the Paris Base a while back ?
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 04:49
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Originally Posted by Oldaircrew View Post
Where is this mythical "better place"?

Almost all airlines are run by morons who have no clue how to manage staff or how to treat them properly. They are, as the septics would put it, "one trick ponys". All they can do is cut costs.

I believe that you will be going from the frying pan to the fire.

You don't need a 'better place'. You only need to know that this is without doubt a 'worse place'. Impossible living space, poor health care, expensive food and other living costs. Toxic air, toxic values. Eventually most sane people will realise that any 'mythical' job back home is better than wasting your life, your family's life in a place that is deteriorating by the year. And doing so while working for the most toxic management in the industry. Give me the 'myth' of a better life elsewhere....
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 07:51
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Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
You don't need a 'better place'. You only need to know that this is without doubt a 'worse place'. Impossible living space, poor health care, expensive food and other living costs. Toxic air, toxic values. Eventually most sane people will realise that any 'mythical' job back home is better than wasting your life, your family's life in a place that is deteriorating by the year. And doing so while working for the most toxic management in the industry. Give me the 'myth' of a better life elsewhere....
If it is so bad, then why haven't you quit yet?
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 08:31
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Yep - there's a reason why the local spikey haired brigade went out onto the streets with yellow umbrellas - at least they tried to change the way things are going. Failed miserably though... YCFB (You Can't Fight Beijing)
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 09:04
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What if swire just trying to hit certain performance targets for future owner ?
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 09:36
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Pretty hard to sell an airline with no pilots and no-one to train new ones!
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 10:01
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Originally Posted by Some How I'm Tired View Post
Pretty hard to sell an airline with no pilots and no-one to train new ones!
What am I missing something? Have the trainers done the unthinkable ?
I think not! Absolutely no way
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 10:23
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If we are hoping the trainers will save the day, then you guys are living in the shadows. Some time back on yammer, a Captain out of jest mentioned something about ego's or power trips of C&Ts. It is true. Regardless if you are one of the Good guys (and I have met many in this company) or one of the Choppers, it takes a special someone to be a Check/ Training Captain.

Now these guys signed a letter taking about low experience levels and its relation to safety. This letter had no Impact whatsoever. Are these guys refusing to fly with low hour cadets? Have these guys stopped letting their loved ones use Staff travel on CX? Are these guys picketing outside CX City. Of course not. Cathay called their bluff.

Like I said, it takes a special someone to join the C&T team. And being in that position is a little to good to give up. Hey, even the Chairman with his increased workload decided to embarrass himself and ask other unions not to train us rather than leave training himself.

We are doomed.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 15:18
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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And when all is said and done, C & T, especially at STC level, is a quasi managerial position. You’ve crossed the line and had the laying on of hands. And the salary to boot.
You have to make your mind up if you’re outside the tent pissing in etc.
Even some of our most vociferous Yammer heroes, and vocal critics of the way management is going, find it hard to get off the moral high ground and resign. The 20% ( Pfundable) is pretty hard to let go, it seems.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 16:24
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Lets get back to the elephant in the room: is it possible , with the current decimation of personal attainment, that a pilot of Cathay Pacific would consider the " ultimate act" and reap revenge against their employers act of empowerment?

Divorce, financial failure, peer derision and inability to function as one did, are all classic signs of impromptu self infliction and destructive behaviour.
Aka : German wings syndrome.

This is a public forum. Let the public decide who they wish to fly with. A fatalistic flyer and prolific PPRuNe poster of hatred against CX should be avoided. The "ultimate act " of retribution should not involve the innocent.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 16:50
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Originally Posted by ANTIPHOLUS View Post
And when all is said and done, C & T, especially at STC level, is a quasi managerial position. You’ve crossed the line and had the laying on of hands. And the salary to boot.
You have to make your mind up if you’re outside the tent pissing in etc.
Even some of our most vociferous Yammer heroes, and vocal critics of the way management is going, find it hard to get off the moral high ground and resign. The 20% ( Pfundable) is pretty hard to let go, it seems.

To be clear. Are you talking about the guys who will be signing your licence, keeping it valid IF you have the balls to leave and join another outfit ? As for picket lines outside CX City, I don't see ANY line guys out there. Do you want the C&T pilots to fight ALL you battles for you ?
They tried. They wrote a letter, admittedly it was weak but they tried. The HKAOA didn't even reply to their request to endorse it. To date, the HKAOA hasn't written ANYTHING or provided ANY quidance to it's members.
I laugh at everyone wearing their red HKAOA lanyards to work. The message you send is "I am a sheep, I chew grass, I have no balls so screw me " and that is EXACTLY what the company is doing to you.
Grow a pair you lot.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 17:07
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Management Troll. Ignore.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 17:24
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Hmmm, seems that a few of our more capable contributors to this site have triggered the panic button back at Kitty City. xpdr777 and Vermin, shouldn't you be fetching Anna's tea and biscuits when she barks, instead of making hysterical comments about the FACTS being posted here regarding the current state of affairs at CX? Never mind the FACTS being posted laying out just how your 'despicable pilots' are all looking to take their skills elsewhere. Pretty soon you can have your little management meetings in peace: there won't be any pilots around to sully Kitty City, they will have all left for happier careers elsewhere.

(sorry AP, I can't ignore such abjectly ridiculous comments such as the two cretins mentioned have made. But yes, they are management trolls)
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 17:37
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All the comments on this site (and particularly this thread) are representative of the majority of opinion and attitude within the airline. It seems that management now think that thought not in accordance with their own thinking is to be considered 'dangerous' and 'mentally unbalanced'. Just another insight into the complete delusion and disconnect from reality that pervades our management. Anna, Rupert and others: be aware that what you are reading here represents FACT as it pertains to the majority sentiment amongst the pilots of CX. The criticisms, damnation's and scathing rejection of what you are doing to this airline is held by us ALL. From someone who used to work in the management of this airline, I have seen the dysfunction first hand. I have sat in on your meetings, many times in complete disgust and disbelief in what I would hear coming from the mouths of your kind. You are not worthy of 'leading' the good pilots of this airline. Not a one of you. In fact, your own evident incompetence is an affront to the sincere, competent, loyal and trustworthy efforts that the pilots contribute to this company day in and day out. You should be ashamed to even mingle with us on "The Street", never mind comment on how we do our jobs. If you don't like what you read here, then change the circumstances that have led to this TRUTH being disseminated. The world is reading this, and not only are you losing the pilots you have, you are losing the ability to deceive others into joining (other than individuals with no experience or judgment). The tide has turned. You need to sit down, and sincerely sue for peace with the AOA. The last, thin chance you have of avoiding disaster is rapidly fading. Ball in your court.
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