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Dear Anna, Rupert...et al. Do you hear the approaching thunder...?

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Dear Anna, Rupert...et al. Do you hear the approaching thunder...?

Old 23rd Oct 2017, 07:30
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
quadspeed. They are leaving. So what is your point?
That they are not.

The critical mass is too old, too indebted, too proud and too senior to leave in protest.

A trickle or even a small stream can easily be managed. The day I see Savilles offering 150 DB apartments at discounted prices is they day it makes a difference.

Even a 10% attrition is a win / win for the company. Most CX pilots with anything to lose in this fight have come to whatever realisation you're referring too much, much too late.
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Old 23rd Oct 2017, 12:00
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
Well you only need to look at Qantas and Virgin in Australia to see that they are recruiting quite heavily.
Yep and not that long ago Qantas were offering extended leave without pay. Thats what you offer when you're not recruiting, that's pretty much the opposite. But I'd also like everyone else to leave so my conditions improve so yes, thousands are leaving, I've jumped a massive 7 numbers in seniority this month which proves it.

You all better go too.
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Old 23rd Oct 2017, 12:32
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Originally Posted by quadspeed View Post

Even a 10% attrition is a win / win for the company.
How do you figure?
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Old 23rd Oct 2017, 12:38
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I think you will find this in a Harvard University Business School course in a few years.

Whilst corporate atrophy is not a new phenomenon, it is probably a first for a corporation that was basically hit in the arse with a rainbow and should still be counting the profits of that luck every day.

Hong Kong- perfect hub, great destination in itself and and all-around success story. Not to mention having the authorities in your pocket.

Why we will see this end very badly is simply that the bridge is manned by people who have no decision-making authority. At least that is their excuse because no one will stand up to Barnaby et al. Typical 19th Century feudalism meets the real world with all those still on the gravy train trying to reach Victoria Station before the derailment.

There is no way on God's Little Earth that management will be able to react in any meaningful way to the reality of the market.

We will just be left with a "Mayor of Hiroshima" moment.
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Old 23rd Oct 2017, 12:43
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I cannot see how any airline would possibly hire ex-CX management
Thatís actually a really good point.
None of this lot would ever get hired in an aviation company outside of Swire.
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Old 23rd Oct 2017, 13:57
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6% of US-based pilots have quit in the past 3 months... It's 6 months to command on an MD80 at Delta Air Lines
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Old 23rd Oct 2017, 14:27
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Will Cathay Pacific face a pilot exodus to mainland airlines as it cuts salaries and benefits? | South China Morning Post

Mainland Chinese carriers are seeking to poach Cathay Pacific Airways pilots, capitalising on a cost-cutting drive by Hong Kong’s flagship airline to slash salaries and benefits.
Some 200 pilots from Cathay Pacific are considering their options with the likes of China Southern Airlines and Hainan Airlines after registering with a recruitment agency, according to a source.
This has contributed to cockpit recruiters for China’s major state-owned and private airlines making greater strides to woo Hong Kong-based pilots feeling disenchanted over salary cuts and wanting a better lifestyle.
Cathay Pacific to slash housing packages for pilots as part of ongoing cost-cutting drive

In an attempt to plug losses of HK$2.05 billion in the first half of the year, Cathay Pacific embarked on a three-year transformation plan to rein in costs which included 600 job cuts so far.
Last month, pilots at Cathay Pacific were told that they would face a salary freeze, pension changes and substantial cuts to housing allowances worth HK$1.2 million.
We have seen a spike in interest in recent weeks, numbering in the hundredsDEBORAH WHITE, RECRUITER
“Until last month, very few Cathay Pacific pilots have inquired, or made applications to Chinese airlines. However we have seen a spike in interest in recent weeks, numbering in the hundreds,” said Deborah White, marketing manager for Longreach Aviation, which recruits pilots for Chinese airlines. It will host recruitment briefings for Hong Kong pilots at the end of the month.
Longreach Aviation said two of its clients – China Southern and Hainan – would need an estimated 100 foreign captains to meet demand for expansion each year until 2020.
At least 200 experienced pilots from Cathay Pacific, out of a total of 250 applicants, have expressed interest in flying for mainland Chinese airlines.
Of Cathay Pacific’s 3,265 pilots, the average turnover rate remained “around” 2.5 per cent this year for resignations and retirements, a figure the company said was “manageable.”
However, the Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association claimed its figures were double the official rate.
“Without doubt, the impending cancellation of the housing allowance agreement at Cathay Pacific will force pilots to look elsewhere,” union general secretary Chris Beebe said.
Pilot pay and pensions targeted as Cathay Pacific looks to slash HK$1 billion in costs

An exodus of pilots, however, could be beneficial for the carrier as it tries to reduce costs.
The company said it accepted that its brand, quality and reputation for safety made its pilots some of the “most sought after” among rival airlines.
“Our resignation rate and early retirement rate … are both a very manageable and in the appropriate range as we continue with our plans to recruit, train, and retain the appropriate mix of skilled pilots to meet our growth plans,” a Cathay Pacific spokeswoman said.
Our resignation rate and early retirement rate … are both a very manageableCATHAY PACIFIC SPOKESWOMAN
The airline said it was focused on implementing big changes to pilot pay as its cost structure was “out of line” with that of its competitors.
Hong Kong cockpit crew are in demand because their locally registered pilot licences come from schools with good reputations and they are familiar with flying in the region, according to Longreach Aviation.
A pilot moving to an airline across the border can expect a salary of up to US$280,000 (HK$2.2 million) a year after tax, a jump of about US$80,000 (HK$624,000). Other benefits include the lower costs of living on the mainland, and up to three months of leave.
“We forget [these also] motivate pilots and personnel,” said Jose Jimenez, a pilot recruiter and a captain for Beijing Capital Airlines. Jimenez said he expected more Hong Kong-based pilots to move to the mainland.
He added that another pull factor for pilots was a reliable roster that ensured they had more leisure and family time.
“We are in the early stages [of such movement in flight personnel]. If Cathay Pacific doesn’t correct this rolling back of terms and conditions – such as removing housing benefits – they are going to see this trend happen.”
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Old 23rd Oct 2017, 15:18
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Its pretty sad that a management that suffers both from institutionalised arrogance and a low intelligence scatter, particularly in FOP.. has to stipulate that its pilot losses through resignation are manageable and appropriate. Once again, its a prime indicator to their marginalisation of crews such that the main stream of the organisation, (those who pen push in a 9 to 5 existence), can rally with the propaganda from HR and provide momentum to the ostracising of the pilot body per se. The latest piece from Tom Owens made NO mention of those on the line flying their aircraft..not one mention. He speaks about leadership and so called "teams". HAECO gets a passing nod but absolutely NO discussion lean towards the pilot body. So thus, the agenda is clear. The dichotomy here is one of basics. The wood for the trees…where CX is an airline; it IS a brand and that brand is carried shoulders high by both the pilots and the cabin staff. The health of the airline is metres by those who work at its coal face, NOT those that enjoy a side bolt existence as add ons and niceties that place the furry balls on the mirrors and that includes the so called peoples department. HR/personnel is a tertiary annexe to any company after it has settled into a trimester regime and begun to post profit. It does not lead the company and in no way represents the way that the company functions, it is merely a litmus to employing, employment and personnel management. It has NO function beyond the office door and has no part in the way the SOP's, the absolute way we fly or the fundamentals of operation organise the shape of our operation. The so called "time to win", previous mission statements (mostly void of purpose or content and meaning), are sliders to allow us to enjoy the beatings we are all about to receive. What I do find bizarre, is the complete lack of hubris that senior directorship, as part of winning us on side with their mantra, might have shown..if only to win the C scale vote..and as HFK mentioned..if I may paraphrase..its just a matter of time...
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Old 23rd Oct 2017, 16:07
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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So CX have today reached out to their high level contacts who've threatened Longreach with legal action over the pilot recruitment seminars planned for this week.
But they're not worried. Very few pilots are leaving. Pilot churn is all within manageable limits. Really it is. They're not concerned at all. Honestly, it's nothing to do with CX. Just random checks by employment officials.
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Old 23rd Oct 2017, 17:31
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This is the sort of nefarious behaviour that I love to see being committed by CX management. They think they are being 'clever', but all they do is help reinforce what a corrupted, venal and ultimately doomed group of losers they really are. In a proper first world environment (hello HK Govt, you are anything but), this sort of bs could not happen. The only way CX can function is in this third world polluted hellhole where the rule of law is a joke at best. That is why the only threat to conditions is being made against HK pilots, and not those on bases. HK is the only place their tactics have a hope of working without transgressing every labour law worth the name. In any event, Longreach will use this to their advantage, as a gentle reminder to all who they speak to of the facts of life in HK , which will only help their case of attracting many more CX/KA pilots. No matter what tactics CX employs, their panic is evident, and the exodus begins. This has just shown how panicked they really are. Anna and Rupert have made yet another strategic blunder.
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Old 23rd Oct 2017, 17:42
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They can't stop the exodus now even if they wanted to, cancelling the roadshow is going to have the opposite effect.

It's not just about money. I don't know anybody that actually enjoys working here anymore. Your working life takes up a significant part of your entire life, why be miserable???

At a time when we should all be pulling in the same direction to expand the airline and capture market share, 100% of management's energy is spent on attacking the pilots. This place is a sad joke.
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Old 23rd Oct 2017, 17:55
  #32 (permalink)  
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I state this will all seriousness and accuracy: On a selection of my past few months longhaul flights, I have asked my crew what their intentions are. Here are the statistics:

1) 2 FO, one with job offer awaiting course date, the other interviewing with two airlines in Nov. SO preparing to leave back to Aus
2) 2 FO, both interviewing in Nov
3) 2 FO, one already in notice period, the other has applied to Quantas and V Aus
4) 2 FO, one waiting for course date with UPS, the other interviewed 'recently' with UA
5) 2 FO, one about to retire, the other has applied to two Aus airlines and NZ
6) 2 FO, one in notice period, joining a 'US'carrier, the other joining a UK airline (can't remember name)
7) 2 FO, one staying because his wife works in HK, the other leaving for Jet 2, SO planning on leaving as soon as another offer is made in the UK
8) 2 FO, both interviewing in the US
9) 2 FO, one is leaving for Easy Jet, the other is interviewing with 2 airlines in Nov
10)2 FO, one is planning on leaving within the month (course date at short notice, but I won't mention airline as I know he doesn't want to be identified), the other is interviewing with two airlines in Nov and Dec.

Anna, the above is factual, and you can choose to take note or discount as you wish. The information tells me all I need to know about the reality of the maelstrom about to hit this airline. The AOA should simply walk away and let the reality of what is about to happen hit you square in the face. The only good thing about this is that it encourages me to see that so many of your pilots have woken up to the fact that it is not worth spending another day at CX, wasting their lives, careers and families futures, working for people that only know how to bully and threaten. Your style of management is decrepit, discredited and on it's way to the scrap yard. Most of the pilots (below 45 yrs old) in CX have woken up to the fact that it is better to get on the seniority ladder elsewhere, sooner rather than later. The fact that we have 20+ year employees leaving, the fact that we have people leaving just prior to Command says all you need to know about how little faith there is left in CX. You have failed. You're the only one who can't see it.

Last edited by Trafalgar; 24th Oct 2017 at 02:17.
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Old 23rd Oct 2017, 18:04
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....I've now got to get some sleep, but there is more of the above to quote. Between resignations, retirements and 'illness', this airlines operations are about to collapse. How's the holiday travel plans coming along Mr. Joe Public?
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Old 23rd Oct 2017, 18:10
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Reference No 7 above: perhaps that's the answer for CX: have them give jobs to all the wives of pilots. They can join the army of 'past their sell date' gweipo women that strut around the 'street' in CX city, trying to pretend they are still attractive, stuffed into dresses two sizes too small and pretending they have posh accents and some relevance. Most of them wouldn't make waitress in a roadside diner anywhere else in the world. Funny how the cull of staff three months ago didn't seem to take any of them out. I suppose it's all the 'service' they provide the senior management.
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Old 24th Oct 2017, 02:00
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Hate to interject any truth into this discussion. So since my seniority number hasnít changed at any rate now thatís been any different from the last 10 yearís can the conspiracy theorists come up with a reason why.
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Old 24th Oct 2017, 02:11
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Easy. If you are a manager and towards the top it won't change much as there aren't many people above you. It is at the bottom that it will be noticeable.
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Old 24th Oct 2017, 02:12
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Housing has for a long time been know as Cx's Golden Handcuffs. Take those handcuffs off and see what happens.
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Old 24th Oct 2017, 02:15
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They are beginning to see it, and soon it will run them over like a freight train.
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Old 24th Oct 2017, 02:42
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Morning coffee.

GMEDX's answer carries a lot of truth.

My number has moved up at approximately twice the rate of official retirements. I wonder why?
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Old 24th Oct 2017, 03:09
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According to the helpers network, three domestic helpers in my street have had their contracts terminated because their CX bosses are leaving. I think lots of people were on the point of leaving, but have now been pushed over the edge.
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