Hkg Atc
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
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OK.. No, I wasn't NATS trained, only for radar. I was doing it long before NATS, overseas too! I was just pointing out, following some fairly hysterical ranting, that the transfer to the tower can be well inside 6nm and is entirely at the discretion of the controller. If that doesn't apply in HK I apologise.
I have to say that it really doesn't matter to me if I'm on radar to 4-5 miles.
l
I have had unhelpful controling and great controling in HKG.
I'm also embarrassed by colleagues and other pilots requesting WX avoidence on Approach control when the controller is obviously overworked/stretched and there isn't a cloud over 10,000' in the area!
I'm always happy to hear HKG controlers they mostly rank well with european airports and beat the USA.
If I have a peeve its having to wait/delay for freighters to land on 07R when 07L is for landings for everyone else.
p.s. I don't think I can spell.
l
I have had unhelpful controling and great controling in HKG.
I'm also embarrassed by colleagues and other pilots requesting WX avoidence on Approach control when the controller is obviously overworked/stretched and there isn't a cloud over 10,000' in the area!
I'm always happy to hear HKG controlers they mostly rank well with european airports and beat the USA.
If I have a peeve its having to wait/delay for freighters to land on 07R when 07L is for landings for everyone else.
p.s. I don't think I can spell.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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HD,
The system of transferring a/c to Tower is the same for HK and LL.I think that the point about the controller being ratty has caused some of the background info to come up.Also the locals are petrified of management,and a lot of gweilos don't want to rock the boat
.If you got a hint of a black mark then you were out.
Busy B,
I got carpeted for landing a CPA inbound for E4 on 07R at 00.30.The second Heathrow was waiting for connecting pax.Everyone said thanks very much.Following day got well bollocked by CAD
cos 07L is landing runway.
Why? god knows 10 bucks.
It's the whole mind set of CAD management with their brains frozen onto the Kai Tak checker board that is causing issues.They are total dinosaurs.
Ps I canny spell neither.
The system of transferring a/c to Tower is the same for HK and LL.I think that the point about the controller being ratty has caused some of the background info to come up.Also the locals are petrified of management,and a lot of gweilos don't want to rock the boat
.If you got a hint of a black mark then you were out.Busy B,
I got carpeted for landing a CPA inbound for E4 on 07R at 00.30.The second Heathrow was waiting for connecting pax.Everyone said thanks very much.Following day got well bollocked by CAD
cos 07L is landing runway. Why? god knows 10 bucks.It's the whole mind set of CAD management with their brains frozen onto the Kai Tak checker board that is causing issues.They are total dinosaurs.
Ps I canny spell neither.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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For Busy B, here are the guidlines for runway arrival usage, when both runways are available (most of the time).
Between 12.30pm and 2000 (local) all aircraft (and this should be reflected on the ATIS) are to land on the North runway (07L or 25R). Outside of the above hours, Freighters, BAC (business aircraft) and GFS (2 Jetstreams) will normally be directed to the South runway (07R & 25L). During the first period above, at the discretion of AMS (Aerodrome Movements South - 118.4), cargo etc may be offered the South runway if it is felt that departures will not be unduly affected/delayed. During the "outside of the above hours", then AMS (or APP for that matter) may enforce individual or groups of freigters etc to land on the North.
The disadvantages for APP is that successive South landers need to be sequenced at least 8 NM in trail, where as this is not the case to the North. Freighters tend to arrive in groups, so the 8 NM issue does raise it's head. The disadvantages for the Tower with South landers is that many aircraft these days have time critical departure slots, and one or more landers on the South can stuff things up. Another disadvantage for the Tower during the "first" period, is the lengthy taxi back to South side parking and the subsequent need to cross 07R/25L.
It is purely a judgement call as to whether or not a decision will be made to alter the normal landing runway for freighter etc aircraft. The call is normally made by AMS and it needs to be done some 10 to 15 minutes ahead of landing time. this means that the AMS needs to have a fairly healthy idea of potential departures (particularly on 25L as the taxi distances are much shorter).
Maybe Dragon69 might like to take some of this onboard. I assume from his posts that he is a KA freighter driver. It might give him good ammo for his next beef.
Between 12.30pm and 2000 (local) all aircraft (and this should be reflected on the ATIS) are to land on the North runway (07L or 25R). Outside of the above hours, Freighters, BAC (business aircraft) and GFS (2 Jetstreams) will normally be directed to the South runway (07R & 25L). During the first period above, at the discretion of AMS (Aerodrome Movements South - 118.4), cargo etc may be offered the South runway if it is felt that departures will not be unduly affected/delayed. During the "outside of the above hours", then AMS (or APP for that matter) may enforce individual or groups of freigters etc to land on the North.
The disadvantages for APP is that successive South landers need to be sequenced at least 8 NM in trail, where as this is not the case to the North. Freighters tend to arrive in groups, so the 8 NM issue does raise it's head. The disadvantages for the Tower with South landers is that many aircraft these days have time critical departure slots, and one or more landers on the South can stuff things up. Another disadvantage for the Tower during the "first" period, is the lengthy taxi back to South side parking and the subsequent need to cross 07R/25L.
It is purely a judgement call as to whether or not a decision will be made to alter the normal landing runway for freighter etc aircraft. The call is normally made by AMS and it needs to be done some 10 to 15 minutes ahead of landing time. this means that the AMS needs to have a fairly healthy idea of potential departures (particularly on 25L as the taxi distances are much shorter).
Maybe Dragon69 might like to take some of this onboard. I assume from his posts that he is a KA freighter driver. It might give him good ammo for his next beef.
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[quote=Dragon69;2862568]
Quote....Your primary task as APP. controller is to vector airplanes onto the localizer with the appropriate spacing.
You fly the aircraft captain and we will get you to the parking bay..??
8miles..7miles..6miles..5miles.. 4miles whatever...we will switch you when WE decide it is appropriate and not b4....though the ball is dropped occasionally and a heads up call should not be snarled at..Simply
"69 5 miles on the localiser" would be perfect.
Quote....Your primary task as APP. controller is to vector airplanes onto the localizer with the appropriate spacing.
You fly the aircraft captain and we will get you to the parking bay..??
8miles..7miles..6miles..5miles.. 4miles whatever...we will switch you when WE decide it is appropriate and not b4....though the ball is dropped occasionally and a heads up call should not be snarled at..Simply
"69 5 miles on the localiser" would be perfect.
Thanks for the info Bedder,
A couple of items I still don't understand.
"Another disadvantage for the Tower during the "first" period, is the lengthy taxi back to South side parking and the subsequent need to cross 07R/25L.
It is purely a judgement call as to whether or not a decision will be made to alter the normal landing runway for freighter etc aircraft. The call is normally made by AMS and it needs to be done some 10 to 15 minutes ahead of landing time."
I don't see that as a disadvantage for ATC just the aircraft, but he's got to his destination and should not take preference over a departure purely for a shorter taxi.
If you planned 15 mins ahead and then 5 mins before landing find that he's holding up departures surely some of the time you can change him back to the other rwy. I've certainly experienced 5 aircraft waiting to depart whilst a freighter lands on the south and no-one within 8 miles on the north.
A couple of items I still don't understand.
"Another disadvantage for the Tower during the "first" period, is the lengthy taxi back to South side parking and the subsequent need to cross 07R/25L.
It is purely a judgement call as to whether or not a decision will be made to alter the normal landing runway for freighter etc aircraft. The call is normally made by AMS and it needs to be done some 10 to 15 minutes ahead of landing time."
I don't see that as a disadvantage for ATC just the aircraft, but he's got to his destination and should not take preference over a departure purely for a shorter taxi.
If you planned 15 mins ahead and then 5 mins before landing find that he's holding up departures surely some of the time you can change him back to the other rwy. I've certainly experienced 5 aircraft waiting to depart whilst a freighter lands on the south and no-one within 8 miles on the north.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Coincidence?
Perhaps coincidence - perhaps not - but HK ATC has been running on rails all week.
Congrats to all involved in the dramatic recent improvement in/around HK.
ATC'ers and pilots alike...its been sharp and snappy. The level of mutual respect, explanation (where able) and "requests" (rather than can I possibly, maybe try to err...) has been fantastic.
Its good to talk!
Congrats to all involved in the dramatic recent improvement in/around HK.
ATC'ers and pilots alike...its been sharp and snappy. The level of mutual respect, explanation (where able) and "requests" (rather than can I possibly, maybe try to err...) has been fantastic.
Its good to talk!
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Hi BusyB, I didn't explain myself very well. The disadvantage to the tower is that it may increase workload for the ground controller...just one more extra mouth to feed as the taxying from a North arrival back to the freight area involves maybe 6 odd tranmissions and some 10 minutes of taxying compared to one possibly two transmissions after a South runway landing. The freighter becomes a longer part of the traffic scene during the lengthy taxi back, instead of a quick quiet death. Also the South landing freighter does not have to cross an (at times busy) active runway.
Without going into all the sequencing requirements for arrivals, generally arrivals on to the same runway (if not being used simultaneously for departures) are planned at either 5NM or min wake turb, and in (let's call it reasonable wx conditions) we can sequence staggered arrivals between North and South 3NM apart. providing the two Aerodrome Controllers can visually separate the arrivals. So, if we had no departures at all, the most efficient way to run the arrivals would be North, South, North, South etc. Well, we also have departures to consider, and hence the system is basically run as I described last night. It has it's faults at times, I agree, but as an overall way of getting the most departures into the air along with the most arrivals on to the ground, I would think that we are fairly close to the mark. Generally if we have two successive arrivals to a runway that is also being used for departures, the desired sequencing space is 8NM to allow the release of a departure between the two arrivals. This happens with two cargo aircraft on the South runway (two rwys available), or as we are often on RWY07L only from around midnight till 9am the following morning, then all arrivals will normally be spaced to allow departures off the North runway. Bearing in mind that the bulk of the departures between 11pm at night and 12.30am are very heavy long haul, I can assure you that we need every bit of 8NM as an inter-arrival spacing.
In relation to your observation that at times you are disadvantaged as a departing aircraft, because of arriving freighters, well, it is probably outside of the "all on the North" period (from 1230pm local to 2000). We have a system in place, and I am not the one about to try and change it. The only people that will be able (maybe) to get that to happen are the users, ie you and your companies. If the operators through here really want all of the freighters landing all of the time on the North runway, well you will need to poll the Airport Authority and CAD to have the system changed. I can bet you anything you like that the two major operators through here, with both Pax and freighter aircraft would say "bugger off". It is interesting that I was talking to a KA captain recently, and he said to me "If I am parking on the South apron, why can't I land on the South runway?" Unfortunately the "me only" syndrome is alive and well!
The bit about offering a runway change to an arriving freighter being some 10 to 15 mins before landing is purely a curtesy. We do have some sensitivities re not changing landing runways once aircraft are too close to landing. If everyone coming in here was a space cadet and the ace of the base, then it might be a bit more easy to throw things around, however this is not the case. Where do we draw the line? At times it can be a bit conservative, but I guess we have a "weakest link in the chain" that we have to pander to at times.
Without going into all the sequencing requirements for arrivals, generally arrivals on to the same runway (if not being used simultaneously for departures) are planned at either 5NM or min wake turb, and in (let's call it reasonable wx conditions) we can sequence staggered arrivals between North and South 3NM apart. providing the two Aerodrome Controllers can visually separate the arrivals. So, if we had no departures at all, the most efficient way to run the arrivals would be North, South, North, South etc. Well, we also have departures to consider, and hence the system is basically run as I described last night. It has it's faults at times, I agree, but as an overall way of getting the most departures into the air along with the most arrivals on to the ground, I would think that we are fairly close to the mark. Generally if we have two successive arrivals to a runway that is also being used for departures, the desired sequencing space is 8NM to allow the release of a departure between the two arrivals. This happens with two cargo aircraft on the South runway (two rwys available), or as we are often on RWY07L only from around midnight till 9am the following morning, then all arrivals will normally be spaced to allow departures off the North runway. Bearing in mind that the bulk of the departures between 11pm at night and 12.30am are very heavy long haul, I can assure you that we need every bit of 8NM as an inter-arrival spacing.
In relation to your observation that at times you are disadvantaged as a departing aircraft, because of arriving freighters, well, it is probably outside of the "all on the North" period (from 1230pm local to 2000). We have a system in place, and I am not the one about to try and change it. The only people that will be able (maybe) to get that to happen are the users, ie you and your companies. If the operators through here really want all of the freighters landing all of the time on the North runway, well you will need to poll the Airport Authority and CAD to have the system changed. I can bet you anything you like that the two major operators through here, with both Pax and freighter aircraft would say "bugger off". It is interesting that I was talking to a KA captain recently, and he said to me "If I am parking on the South apron, why can't I land on the South runway?" Unfortunately the "me only" syndrome is alive and well!
The bit about offering a runway change to an arriving freighter being some 10 to 15 mins before landing is purely a curtesy. We do have some sensitivities re not changing landing runways once aircraft are too close to landing. If everyone coming in here was a space cadet and the ace of the base, then it might be a bit more easy to throw things around, however this is not the case. Where do we draw the line? At times it can be a bit conservative, but I guess we have a "weakest link in the chain" that we have to pander to at times.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Repost
What is going on at this place ... no leave, heavy workload, low in morale and what not! No discipline, no standard, yeahhhh.The place is in a mess ... poor management. Yes, VERY POOR.
That guy from 4th floor keeps coming up. We see him in the center, see him in the reading room and restroom .... what does he do? I checked - he is in charge of Training, why the s
t is he in the center all the time. ops is not his responsibility .... he thinks he is Mr Everything.And that guy you recently re hired ...... We have a pretty bad center, now we will have a new BAD center
oh no!
We hate this DEPT.
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economy cruise
How can an airline expect to fly around busy airspace at Mach.72 and not expect to get in everybodies way. I know fuel is expensive etc etc but unless all airlines agree to fly slow then the the only airline that is flying slow will not be getting short cuts, and could more times than not find himself being put to the back of the que ??
Any chance a few of you drivers can complain to you operations or higher up the food chain about all the similar callsigns on frequency..incidents as a result of this problem are becomming a weekly occurence ...CPA828 and CPA 888 a regular.
Thanks
Any chance a few of you drivers can complain to you operations or higher up the food chain about all the similar callsigns on frequency..incidents as a result of this problem are becomming a weekly occurence ...CPA828 and CPA 888 a regular.
Thanks
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Snowball effect
mr plot
I don't know where you get your information from, but please be advised that an ATCO II in MPS 44B ears 74,725 HKD per month - a far cry from the 100,000 mentioned by you. Please don't tell me you include Accomodation Allowance - not everybody is lucky enough to get that. The point I wanted to make was that our salary has been static for a decade and a change is not likely although the cost of living is going up. Agree?
The controller mentioned in the mentioned "TOIL-event" was allowed to leave after a busy and tiring 2 hour-session on Ground. He was due for a "late break" (maximum 60 minutes) 30 minutes later. 30 minutes? Big deal!
Surely, a high-ranking manager has more important matters to attend to than such petty stuff. Like making sure the troops are happy and that the traffic flows smoothly.
Get your facts right, pal!
When Boss Norman took over here a few years ago, the prevailing feeling was that he was a welcomed breath of fresh air and a desperately needed change from his predecessor whose life ambition seemed to be having his photograph taken as often as possible and in as many places as possible. A figurehead from a remote planet. People's feelings of expextations grew when Boss Norman was quoted in the press, saying we needed more controllers. Sadly, however, nothing much has happened since then. Many controllers have left (one wonders why!) and the trainees take longer-than-expected time to check out. One of the main reasons for the dragged-out training is that the supervisors usual quick fix is to take a trainee off training to cover for sick leave. This may work in the short term, but there is a high price to pay for the trainees. Their training is interrupted and goes on far too long. On top of this, the trainees are often called upon to work on their days off. During their training period they need all the rest they can get and working on their days off is thus very counterproductive. Consequently, the trainees are often tired - even on the first day of their "new" training cycle - and this naturally can be detected in their performance.
The thing in HK ATC is that nobody wants to address the real problems which are lack of staff in combination with bureaucratic, petty and old-fashioned management who do not have even the slightest idea how to run a busy ATC unit. Additionally, a new control center is on the drawing board requiring even more staff.
In Hong Kong ATC the messenger can expect to be shot, so the individual supervisors simply want to survive their shifts rather than create any waves. Nobody is prepared to stick out their necks by imposing restrictions on traffic due to shortage of staff or even telling Boss Norman (or better still: LEGCO!) that more staff is urgently needed.
The size of the snowball is growing every day: the number of people wanting leave, but not getting it gets bigger constantly, people generally suffer from fatigue and tend to call in sick more often than before, an increasing number of local (S)ATCOs have an "overflowing leave balance" and their 1,5 - 3 days of well-deserved leave disappers into thin air every month, causing a very strong feeling of anger and thirst for revenge. Does Boss Norman know the real situation here? My feeling is that he is "protected" from the truth, because nobody wants to be the messenger.
What would happen if the press were made aware of just how disastrous the whole situation is in HK ATC? Somehow, I think that this is the only way things will change for the better. One thing is for sure: as long as things appear to run on rails nothing will change. Has the time come to involve the press?
1) $100000 a month and can't support your family?!
how many children do you have?
how many children do you have?
2) Half an hour early? I thought he was two and a half early!
Surely, a high-ranking manager has more important matters to attend to than such petty stuff. Like making sure the troops are happy and that the traffic flows smoothly.
Get your facts right, pal!
When Boss Norman took over here a few years ago, the prevailing feeling was that he was a welcomed breath of fresh air and a desperately needed change from his predecessor whose life ambition seemed to be having his photograph taken as often as possible and in as many places as possible. A figurehead from a remote planet. People's feelings of expextations grew when Boss Norman was quoted in the press, saying we needed more controllers. Sadly, however, nothing much has happened since then. Many controllers have left (one wonders why!) and the trainees take longer-than-expected time to check out. One of the main reasons for the dragged-out training is that the supervisors usual quick fix is to take a trainee off training to cover for sick leave. This may work in the short term, but there is a high price to pay for the trainees. Their training is interrupted and goes on far too long. On top of this, the trainees are often called upon to work on their days off. During their training period they need all the rest they can get and working on their days off is thus very counterproductive. Consequently, the trainees are often tired - even on the first day of their "new" training cycle - and this naturally can be detected in their performance.
The thing in HK ATC is that nobody wants to address the real problems which are lack of staff in combination with bureaucratic, petty and old-fashioned management who do not have even the slightest idea how to run a busy ATC unit. Additionally, a new control center is on the drawing board requiring even more staff.
In Hong Kong ATC the messenger can expect to be shot, so the individual supervisors simply want to survive their shifts rather than create any waves. Nobody is prepared to stick out their necks by imposing restrictions on traffic due to shortage of staff or even telling Boss Norman (or better still: LEGCO!) that more staff is urgently needed.
The size of the snowball is growing every day: the number of people wanting leave, but not getting it gets bigger constantly, people generally suffer from fatigue and tend to call in sick more often than before, an increasing number of local (S)ATCOs have an "overflowing leave balance" and their 1,5 - 3 days of well-deserved leave disappers into thin air every month, causing a very strong feeling of anger and thirst for revenge. Does Boss Norman know the real situation here? My feeling is that he is "protected" from the truth, because nobody wants to be the messenger.
What would happen if the press were made aware of just how disastrous the whole situation is in HK ATC? Somehow, I think that this is the only way things will change for the better. One thing is for sure: as long as things appear to run on rails nothing will change. Has the time come to involve the press?
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RRSM is right .... 
We should tell the Director (actually Government) and then .... THE PRESS ....
We work very hard and AAHK got all credit .... get payrise, bonus, etc.
What do we get ...? NOTHING
We junior guys suffer the most .... we always rostered the busiest times, get shorter breaks and less early go .... always get in trouble with supervisor even when do nothing wrong!!!
We should tell the Director (actually Government) and then .... THE PRESS ....
We work very hard and AAHK got all credit .... get payrise, bonus, etc.
What do we get ...? NOTHING
We junior guys suffer the most .... we always rostered the busiest times, get shorter breaks and less early go .... always get in trouble with supervisor even when do nothing wrong!!!
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I must admit that I found the standard of Watch Management pretty dire in HK.
Our one used to play on the computer all day in the VCR,while the Gweilos ran the watch.Or they were little Hitlers,who thought that Kai Tak was the greatest thing since sliced Congee.They wouldn't last 5 minutes in the UK.
Also their attitude to junior controllers would get them sacked in the UK.Pure discrimination and harassement.
The CAD copied some aspects of the the UK SCRATCOH,but forgot about an important aspect.TIME OFF.They hate the 10 day cycle,and expect people to come in on days off,for the glory I guess.Sorry can't be more positive here,but I think you guys need to take some serious personal roster adjustments.
Ps Norman,you DO read these posts.You can't silence me.I left( but I paid my tax!)
Our one used to play on the computer all day in the VCR,while the Gweilos ran the watch.Or they were little Hitlers,who thought that Kai Tak was the greatest thing since sliced Congee.They wouldn't last 5 minutes in the UK.Also their attitude to junior controllers would get them sacked in the UK.Pure discrimination and harassement.
The CAD copied some aspects of the the UK SCRATCOH,but forgot about an important aspect.TIME OFF.They hate the 10 day cycle,and expect people to come in on days off,for the glory I guess.Sorry can't be more positive here,but I think you guys need to take some serious personal roster adjustments.
Ps Norman,you DO read these posts.You can't silence me.I left( but I paid my tax!)
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I must admit that I found the standard of Watch Management pretty dire in HK. Our one used to play on the computer all day in the VCR,while the Gweilos ran the watch.Or they were little Hitlers,who thought that Kai Tak was the greatest thing since sliced Congee.They wouldn't last 5 minutes in the UK.
Also their attitude to junior controllers would get them sacked in the UK.Pure discrimination and harassement.
The CAD copied some aspects of the the UK SCRATCOH,but forgot about an important aspect.TIME OFF.They hate the 10 day cycle,and expect people to come in on days off,for the glory I guess.Sorry can't be more positive here,but I think you guys need to take some serious personal roster adjustments.
Ps Norman,you DO read these posts.You can't silence me.I left( but I paid my tax!)
Our one used to play on the computer all day in the VCR,while the Gweilos ran the watch.Or they were little Hitlers,who thought that Kai Tak was the greatest thing since sliced Congee.They wouldn't last 5 minutes in the UK.Also their attitude to junior controllers would get them sacked in the UK.Pure discrimination and harassement.
The CAD copied some aspects of the the UK SCRATCOH,but forgot about an important aspect.TIME OFF.They hate the 10 day cycle,and expect people to come in on days off,for the glory I guess.Sorry can't be more positive here,but I think you guys need to take some serious personal roster adjustments.
Ps Norman,you DO read these posts.You can't silence me.I left( but I paid my tax!)
Just heard they are planning to make people pay back days they take sick leave - unbelievable!!!
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Well I owe quite a few.Come and get me.
How about the days that were robbed because they lost TOIL records?
Just as well I kept records.Come on guys they are robbing you blind.
How about the days that were robbed because they lost TOIL records?
Just as well I kept records.Come on guys they are robbing you blind.
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Dyce,
This is very interesting!!! Are you saying that management simply did not give you the TOIL they were supposed to do? How much did they rob you of? How many guys were cheated? Did you guys ever consider taking legal action against the department? Surely, this should be categorized as theft? Seems that the socalled management are nothing but a bunch of thieves!!!
This is very interesting!!! Are you saying that management simply did not give you the TOIL they were supposed to do? How much did they rob you of? How many guys were cheated? Did you guys ever consider taking legal action against the department? Surely, this should be categorized as theft? Seems that the socalled management are nothing but a bunch of thieves!!!
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RRSM,
They robbed just over 100 hours from me.It was when the change over from Kai Tak to CLK and we were in Gweilo Airlines.In July I was about 0 hours,and by Sept I was -100.
It wasn't til I was leaving and they wanted the 100 hours back that the problem started.I asked them to prove the hours.''Cannot'' only keep TOIL records for 3 months.Oh really,but how did I go from 0 to -100 in 4 weeks? They said that they didn't have records.Well I did and kept them.
It transpired that they keep all the TOIL records,but the records covering 2 months around Kai Tak/CLK changeover were lost.Computer wiped the lot. So we didn't exist.Sciving for 12 days?
They took my records as proof and gave me back 64 hours,took me off the 5on 1 off punishment roster,and never said sorry.
The thing that made me mad was, we were doing extra shifts to get their Airport open,told when to go on leave etc,and this is how they said thanks.F off.
Legal action? Just wanted to get on the plane home.It took them nearly 2 years to give my MPF back.It wasn't worth that much,so I celebrated by buying a Ride on Lawnmower,to remember HK.
They robbed just over 100 hours from me.It was when the change over from Kai Tak to CLK and we were in Gweilo Airlines.In July I was about 0 hours,and by Sept I was -100.
It wasn't til I was leaving and they wanted the 100 hours back that the problem started.I asked them to prove the hours.''Cannot'' only keep TOIL records for 3 months.Oh really,but how did I go from 0 to -100 in 4 weeks? They said that they didn't have records.Well I did and kept them.
It transpired that they keep all the TOIL records,but the records covering 2 months around Kai Tak/CLK changeover were lost.Computer wiped the lot.
So we didn't exist.Sciving for 12 days? They took my records as proof and gave me back 64 hours,took me off the 5on 1 off punishment roster,and never said sorry.
The thing that made me mad was, we were doing extra shifts to get their Airport open,told when to go on leave etc,and this is how they said thanks.F
off.Legal action? Just wanted to get on the plane home.It took them nearly 2 years to give my MPF back.It wasn't worth that much,so I celebrated by buying a Ride on Lawnmower,to remember HK.
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Hello Kitty ATC
Dyce,
So I guess you were not the only one robbed? I bet the rest of the lads never got their hours and have now worked 100 hours for free. It is called stealing where I come from and is criminal.
Nothing has changed, though. People who get leave (very few & lucky ones these days) return to work only to see their TOIL balance has dropped around 20 hours during their leave. Why? Too hard to explain here, but management want to have their cake and eat it. Everything works in their favor. Taking legal action will be "too hard". Want a sticker for you lawnmower to remind you of Hello Kitty ATC?
So I guess you were not the only one robbed? I bet the rest of the lads never got their hours and have now worked 100 hours for free. It is called stealing where I come from and is criminal.
Nothing has changed, though. People who get leave (very few & lucky ones these days) return to work only to see their TOIL balance has dropped around 20 hours during their leave. Why? Too hard to explain here, but management want to have their cake and eat it. Everything works in their favor. Taking legal action will be "too hard". Want a sticker for you lawnmower to remind you of Hello Kitty ATC?
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: uk
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RRSM,
Yes I guess thats right,although it probably only affects those in Gweilo Airlines at that time.I know that several of my collegues also had -100 hours suddenly,but I could only look after my own case,and keep a careful note of my hours.Also several people that left were put on punishment roster of 5 on 1 off to recover the time.I stated that if I had an incident working that S t,I would drag CAD management publically with me.
However I recovered the time anyway over year 3, with several personal roster adjustments,but I was determined not to let them away with it.
PS,
A sticker would be great.This mower is sponsored by Hello Kitty and Coltalin for ultimate Hay fever relief.
Yes I guess thats right,although it probably only affects those in Gweilo Airlines at that time.I know that several of my collegues also had -100 hours suddenly,but I could only look after my own case,and keep a careful note of my hours.Also several people that left were put on punishment roster of 5 on 1 off to recover the time.I stated that if I had an incident working that S
t,I would drag CAD management publically with me.However I recovered the time anyway over year 3, with several personal roster adjustments,but I was determined not to let them away with it.
PS,
A sticker would be great.This mower is sponsored by Hello Kitty and Coltalin for ultimate Hay fever relief.
Last edited by throw a dyce; 29th Sep 2006 at 10:45.