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Join Date: Dec 2005
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To all the HK ATC controllers I'm sorry to hear that the working conditions are so bad for you at the moment. I hope that a resolution will soon be found but somehow I doubt it .
I would just like to say a big thanks for keeping us all safe for many years. As to the odd snippy comment well they often relieve tension and provide some much needed humour. I've been on the receiving end of a few, most of them not called for but I just happened to make a call immediately following another aircraft who has just ticked the controller off and I ended up as the obvious target . Hey we are all grown ups, let it go it isn't worth getting upset about.
Approaching in bad weather the radio sounds like a continuous steam of instructions with aircraft going in all directions . I for one would hate to keep a mental picture of that many moving objects. So I take my hat off to all of you.
One point that I would appreciate an answer to, is when requesting descent inbound from the East why is it not possible to simply add a height /speed restriction to the descent clearance. This would stop the requirement to go back to ATC and seek clarification.
If the weather is bad and FL 150/130 with 250KTS is required at MANGO MELON simply add it to the ATIS then every aircraft can plan accordingly.
Your thoughts or comments are welcome, but I would like you to know that you are appreciated by the majority of the pilot fraternity.
I would just like to say a big thanks for keeping us all safe for many years. As to the odd snippy comment well they often relieve tension and provide some much needed humour. I've been on the receiving end of a few, most of them not called for but I just happened to make a call immediately following another aircraft who has just ticked the controller off and I ended up as the obvious target . Hey we are all grown ups, let it go it isn't worth getting upset about.
Approaching in bad weather the radio sounds like a continuous steam of instructions with aircraft going in all directions . I for one would hate to keep a mental picture of that many moving objects. So I take my hat off to all of you.
One point that I would appreciate an answer to, is when requesting descent inbound from the East why is it not possible to simply add a height /speed restriction to the descent clearance. This would stop the requirement to go back to ATC and seek clarification.
If the weather is bad and FL 150/130 with 250KTS is required at MANGO MELON simply add it to the ATIS then every aircraft can plan accordingly.
Your thoughts or comments are welcome, but I would like you to know that you are appreciated by the majority of the pilot fraternity.
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Oriental,
Not sure if it's in the ATIS vocabulary.Also ATIS are generally for airfield conditions and not medium level speed /approach procedures.
Are Sigmets not issued if the wx is very bad.
Not sure if it's in the ATIS vocabulary.Also ATIS are generally for airfield conditions and not medium level speed /approach procedures.
Are Sigmets not issued if the wx is very bad.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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To all the HK ATC controllers I'm sorry to hear that the working conditions are so bad for you at the moment. I hope that a resolution will soon be found but somehow I doubt it .
I would just like to say a big thanks for keeping us all safe for many years. As to the odd snippy comment well they often relieve tension and provide some much needed humour. I've been on the receiving end of a few, most of them not called for but I just happened to make a call immediately following another aircraft who has just ticked the controller off and I ended up as the obvious target . Hey we are all grown ups, let it go it isn't worth getting upset about.
Approaching in bad weather the radio sounds like a continuous steam of instructions with aircraft going in all directions . I for one would hate to keep a mental picture of that many moving objects. So I take my hat off to all of you.
One point that I would appreciate an answer to, is when requesting descent inbound from the East why is it not possible to simply add a height /speed restriction to the descent clearance. This would stop the requirement to go back to ATC and seek clarification.
If the weather is bad and FL 150/130 with 250KTS is required at MANGO MELON simply add it to the ATIS then every aircraft can plan accordingly.
Your thoughts or comments are welcome, but I would like you to know that you are appreciated by the majority of the pilot fraternity.
I would just like to say a big thanks for keeping us all safe for many years. As to the odd snippy comment well they often relieve tension and provide some much needed humour. I've been on the receiving end of a few, most of them not called for but I just happened to make a call immediately following another aircraft who has just ticked the controller off and I ended up as the obvious target . Hey we are all grown ups, let it go it isn't worth getting upset about.
Approaching in bad weather the radio sounds like a continuous steam of instructions with aircraft going in all directions . I for one would hate to keep a mental picture of that many moving objects. So I take my hat off to all of you.
One point that I would appreciate an answer to, is when requesting descent inbound from the East why is it not possible to simply add a height /speed restriction to the descent clearance. This would stop the requirement to go back to ATC and seek clarification.
If the weather is bad and FL 150/130 with 250KTS is required at MANGO MELON simply add it to the ATIS then every aircraft can plan accordingly.
Your thoughts or comments are welcome, but I would like you to know that you are appreciated by the majority of the pilot fraternity.
Thanks for your nice comments ... We try to provide good service even though working conditions are terrible .... 1997 pay, poor roster, poor management, no leave, low morale, mimimum rest, poor instructors, slow training, etc
. And Airport Authority still want more.
... no thanks!
It could help if you pilots and airlines can write to CAD and pressure them to improve ..... Again, it may not be as safe to fly if conditions are worst and worst.
4
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Hi Oriental,
To answer your question re heights and speeds at the metering fixes (MELON & MANGO to you). Let's start with the "biggie" - speed. The problem is that traffic is being sequenced centrally, by the flow controller (the only guy with the "big picture"), and all the information that the en-route controller gets (and needs) is the spacing that he is required to provide at the metering fixes to achieve a smooth flow, filling all the gaps, to ensure that we can punch in 29 arrivals an hour to the runway 'til the cows come home. And there are 3 en-route controllers speeding you up/ slowing you down. So just remember that the guy you are speaking to (the en-route controller) can't give you a detailed reason why you are being slowed/speeded, except that he is one of three guys providing the best service to get the most aircraft on the ground in the shortest possible time. It doesn't matter what airline you are. (Unless you have rung me personally to let me know that I have been given a complimentary upgrade to first class, for life. Then, of course, you will always be number one, but that will have to remain between you and me - OK?)
Anyway, back to reality. Speed control. It's like you driving a car and approaching a roundabout. You see a gap in the traffic approaching on your left/right and you either have to speed up/slow down (or if you're a wuss, stop) to get yourself into that gap. And as you know, I'm sure, if you speed up to beat that guy on your left/right, as soon as you've beaten him you have to slow down to the speed everyone else (the wusses) are doing or vice versa. Well guess what, it's no different just 'cause you're in a plane. We're very simple souls here and we don't want to introduce too many new concepts, mainly 'cause it'd be too hard for us, as well as you, and we don't get paid enough to be sophisticated!
So, that's speed control sorted. So I don't expect any more questions on that - OK. Now height. That's a slightly different kettle of fish. It really all boils down to the runway in use. And as I'm sure you all know, RWY25 is the runway that's going to be the predominant runway in use at CLK. No? - Well that's what all our procedures are based around. And that's based on the extensive research carried out by CAD before we even moved to CLK. So if you're arriving from Taipei, Tokyo, Seoul, N. America, we expect you to be at FL130 by MELON, cause that's on profile for RWY25 - right?.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN, RWY07 IS THE MOST USED RUNWAY?
Well, okay we do change runways occasionally, so we'll stick with the "master plan". Now I know you're going to say that that's way too high if you're landing on RWY07. And I have to agree (grudgingly), 'cause if you arrive from the east in the wee small hours and I don't put any height restrictions on you
then you will cross MELON at FL310 (Well, the men amongst you will).
So that's the height problem solved. Make sure you arrive after midnight and before six'ish in the morning and you can have a proper descent profile. If you have a problem with that outside those hours then you'll have to arrange a meeting with "big" NORM and sort it out with him. 'Cause I don't get paid enough to do his job as well as my own!
Lots of luck "Beachie"
To answer your question re heights and speeds at the metering fixes (MELON & MANGO to you). Let's start with the "biggie" - speed. The problem is that traffic is being sequenced centrally, by the flow controller (the only guy with the "big picture"), and all the information that the en-route controller gets (and needs) is the spacing that he is required to provide at the metering fixes to achieve a smooth flow, filling all the gaps, to ensure that we can punch in 29 arrivals an hour to the runway 'til the cows come home. And there are 3 en-route controllers speeding you up/ slowing you down. So just remember that the guy you are speaking to (the en-route controller) can't give you a detailed reason why you are being slowed/speeded, except that he is one of three guys providing the best service to get the most aircraft on the ground in the shortest possible time. It doesn't matter what airline you are. (Unless you have rung me personally to let me know that I have been given a complimentary upgrade to first class, for life. Then, of course, you will always be number one, but that will have to remain between you and me - OK?)
Anyway, back to reality. Speed control. It's like you driving a car and approaching a roundabout. You see a gap in the traffic approaching on your left/right and you either have to speed up/slow down (or if you're a wuss, stop) to get yourself into that gap. And as you know, I'm sure, if you speed up to beat that guy on your left/right, as soon as you've beaten him you have to slow down to the speed everyone else (the wusses) are doing or vice versa. Well guess what, it's no different just 'cause you're in a plane. We're very simple souls here and we don't want to introduce too many new concepts, mainly 'cause it'd be too hard for us, as well as you, and we don't get paid enough to be sophisticated!
So, that's speed control sorted. So I don't expect any more questions on that - OK. Now height. That's a slightly different kettle of fish. It really all boils down to the runway in use. And as I'm sure you all know, RWY25 is the runway that's going to be the predominant runway in use at CLK. No? - Well that's what all our procedures are based around. And that's based on the extensive research carried out by CAD before we even moved to CLK. So if you're arriving from Taipei, Tokyo, Seoul, N. America, we expect you to be at FL130 by MELON, cause that's on profile for RWY25 - right?.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN, RWY07 IS THE MOST USED RUNWAY?
Well, okay we do change runways occasionally, so we'll stick with the "master plan". Now I know you're going to say that that's way too high if you're landing on RWY07. And I have to agree (grudgingly), 'cause if you arrive from the east in the wee small hours and I don't put any height restrictions on you
then you will cross MELON at FL310 (Well, the men amongst you will).
So that's the height problem solved. Make sure you arrive after midnight and before six'ish in the morning and you can have a proper descent profile. If you have a problem with that outside those hours then you'll have to arrange a meeting with "big" NORM and sort it out with him. 'Cause I don't get paid enough to do his job as well as my own!
Lots of luck "Beachie"
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Association!!!
Thank you Mr President .... your letter to Co and company very good.
Now I think my payment to association is worth (I will continue be a memeber) ...
Keep the GOOD WORK.
多謝
We love you!!!
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I had always considered that I eventually wanted to end up working at HKG - reading this thread, and others has me seriously wondering!
Corresponence received from CAD recently, suggest there is no recruitment for expats in the pipleine. Is this for real or just the official line? The impression I get is that you (like everywhere else) are very short-staffed. Heaven knows how they expect to accomodate growth without the people.
So - is it still worth trying for HKG if/when they change their policy?
And - when ATC's leave HKG to work, where do they normally go?!
PM any info in-confidence.
Ta.
Corresponence received from CAD recently, suggest there is no recruitment for expats in the pipleine. Is this for real or just the official line? The impression I get is that you (like everywhere else) are very short-staffed. Heaven knows how they expect to accomodate growth without the people.
So - is it still worth trying for HKG if/when they change their policy?
And - when ATC's leave HKG to work, where do they normally go?!
PM any info in-confidence.
Ta.
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****su,
HK ATC used to be a really nice place to work. But the good times are long gone! HK ATC is rotten to the core and dysfunctional, too. Lack of staff is only a part of the problem.
Here are 5 reasons why you should NOT come here - even if they do recruit:
- for the last 10 years our salary has been static. A pay increase is highly unlikely. We work twice the number of aircraft, though!
- leave is too hard (quite rare) to get. For people who appreciate their time off and holidays more than their work it is all just TOO HARD!
- TOIL. This concept is normally hard to explain to others: Basically, our management take great pride in calculating our working hours every month and keep a exact record for each controller - even down to the minute! They insist we must work the same number of hours every week as office workers. No acknowledgement that it is more tiring to work evenings, nights, weekends etc. Invariably, we end up working slightly less than the office people and are therefore called upon to work on our days off. This will sooner or later create fatigue and guess how this affects our morale.
- The place gets busier every day, but our procedures, management and supervisors are behind the power curve. The front line controllers have to cope with it all including the ridiculous restriction imposed by ATC China. No support!!!
- The staff morale is at an all time low. The youngsters on training are fed up even before they get checked out. There is definitely a punishment culture here. Many experienced controllers (locals and expats) are at the point where they would love to leave. Generally, there is a lot of anger and dissatisfaction here. Working in this kind of environment is simply not healthy for anyone.
Anyway, a new recruitment seems unlikely although we are 50 controllers short. Our bosses are still in denial.
HK ATC used to be a really nice place to work. But the good times are long gone! HK ATC is rotten to the core and dysfunctional, too. Lack of staff is only a part of the problem.
Here are 5 reasons why you should NOT come here - even if they do recruit:
- for the last 10 years our salary has been static. A pay increase is highly unlikely. We work twice the number of aircraft, though!
- leave is too hard (quite rare) to get. For people who appreciate their time off and holidays more than their work it is all just TOO HARD!
- TOIL. This concept is normally hard to explain to others: Basically, our management take great pride in calculating our working hours every month and keep a exact record for each controller - even down to the minute! They insist we must work the same number of hours every week as office workers. No acknowledgement that it is more tiring to work evenings, nights, weekends etc. Invariably, we end up working slightly less than the office people and are therefore called upon to work on our days off. This will sooner or later create fatigue and guess how this affects our morale.
- The place gets busier every day, but our procedures, management and supervisors are behind the power curve. The front line controllers have to cope with it all including the ridiculous restriction imposed by ATC China. No support!!!
- The staff morale is at an all time low. The youngsters on training are fed up even before they get checked out. There is definitely a punishment culture here. Many experienced controllers (locals and expats) are at the point where they would love to leave. Generally, there is a lot of anger and dissatisfaction here. Working in this kind of environment is simply not healthy for anyone.
Anyway, a new recruitment seems unlikely although we are 50 controllers short. Our bosses are still in denial.
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When I served my time there (98-01)I was almost the youngest Gweilo there.I'm now 45.There must be a lot of the Gweilos coming up for retirement,whether it be on their terms or they won't give you a contract past 60.
The CAD made no effort to encourage younger Gweilos to stay,or have a way for them to come back if things get tight.People have to go home for lots of reasons,and for me HK is the other side of the world.As I said before,you've done 3 years now get out and don't come back.
I also think that CAD got off Scot free ,and I have had lots of practise there.(JIMMY). If a ''certain investment'' had actually worked
then there would have been NOBODY left.A Really,Sound,Idea wasn't it. Shame nice try though.
The CAD made no effort to encourage younger Gweilos to stay,or have a way for them to come back if things get tight.People have to go home for lots of reasons,and for me HK is the other side of the world.As I said before,you've done 3 years now get out and don't come back.
I also think that CAD got off Scot free ,and I have had lots of practise there.(JIMMY). If a ''certain investment'' had actually worked
then there would have been NOBODY left.A Really,Sound,Idea wasn't it. Shame nice try though.
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****su, Having read some of your informative posts elsewhere, you seem to be far too smart and well read for these lattitudes. I would say that the chances of HK recruiting expats soon under anything but reasonable terms are almost non existent. I think the halcyon days of "Let's go to the tropics for a while Dear" have disappeared with global warming. I quite enjoyed HK when we were at Kai Tak, but those days have long since faded away...what was that approach to RWY13 called..IDS...IKS...IZS? Stuffed if I can remember! One of these days when I am in Brissy, I will have to take you under my wing, down to the Brekky Creek and fill you in on a few details....and we don't even know each other...or do we?
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ATCO's do their best (not always enough and often too much) within the frustrating and strangled system we are forced to comply with. Sometimes the frustrations explode on frequency when one too many "what's my delay" questions happen. You may not realise that this question occurs 100's of times a day and it is not possible or appropriate to answer all in a calm /concise and friendly manner due to workload or the fact that there maybe no reasonable answer due to a sad lack of experience or outright ablitiy. You may be the one that breaks the chopstick and the reply may not equal the question. How many of you have listened to the poor R/T from some carriers the constant cries of confirm followed by a perfect readback, the long unitelligable readbacks, the incomprehensible incoherant requests that clutter the HK ATC freq's do you then wonder why occasionally and increasingly there are snaps on the ATCO's side. Please add to that the frustrations of pay/toil/leave/China ATC (prehistoric systems, couldn't make a decision if you paid them, let's put a hold on Hk traffic again it worked last time and they don't stand up for themselves,why not just stop all traffic into Beijing and Shanghai because we can ha! ha! let's make FL370 the only level today as nobody can make it by Dotmi -20, I think that guy might be near the holding point let's call HK and give him a 3 hour delay but only say it is 20 minutes for the next 19 minutes(you think I'm joking,I'm not) Many pilots do have a reasonable gripe but at the end of the day so does everyone else and you all pick on the ATCO. HKATC is clearly a leader in service in Asia (kindascarybuttrue) it ain't perfect, sometimes it ain't pretty, but without support from H headquarters Q and the users (Pilots) things won't get any better just more frustrated/irritated and down right cranky.
Just remember we both need each other and are in a pile of
without acceptance and cooperation.
p.s. I don't miss the job and can confirn all that dyce has said re toil and Gweilo airlines except that I was closer to losing 200 hours but didn't keep a record.
Just remember we both need each other and are in a pile of
without acceptance and cooperation.p.s. I don't miss the job and can confirn all that dyce has said re toil and Gweilo airlines except that I was closer to losing 200 hours but didn't keep a record.
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Everyone at Gweilo Airlines should send CAD a bill for the hundreds of hours that they F STOLE off us.200 hours is over a month,and they did it to everyone to varying degrees.They make this song and dance about TOIL,keeping a squadron of people beavering away on the 4th floor,to produce something that is 3 months old.When you leave and you are positve hundreds of hours,will you get the time,or money.I don't think so.
You couldn't fight it as there was no union to back you up.Just shrug the shoulders and put it down to the way they are.If they were decent employers they would investigate this,and sort it out.Anyway I hope that this information is being copied and fed to management on the 4th floor.You bunch of thieving B tards
STOLE off us.200 hours is over a month,and they did it to everyone to varying degrees.They make this song and dance about TOIL,keeping a squadron of people beavering away on the 4th floor,to produce something that is 3 months old.When you leave and you are positve hundreds of hours,will you get the time,or money.I don't think so.You couldn't fight it as there was no union to back you up.Just shrug the shoulders and put it down to the way they are.If they were decent employers they would investigate this,and sort it out.Anyway I hope that this information is being copied and fed to management on the 4th floor.You bunch of thieving B
tards
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amen dyce,,how can you run an accountling system where complete weeks are missed out because the person responsible didn't tick your presents so no record so therefor you no there. This equats to 100K of lost income and every second has to be paid back . It is however allowable on their part to hold the positive toil for years and can be several months worth of unpaid overtime . The hope is you forget or don't argue because they won't pay you . That my friends is theft by the govt of your time and your money there is no other slant on it. But who is going to fight it when your tenure is but a fleeting moment and the cost prohibitive...
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Why am I not surprised - oops! $10
I have not visited these pages for a long time but I am not at all surprised to read what it is like in Hong Kong now. It seems to me that absolutely nothing, with the exception of traffic levels, has changed since I arrived there in 1996. Nor is it likely to in the forseeable future. Unless the old bugbear of "loss of face" is expunged from the Chinese psyche and people are allowed to make decisions without fear of being hung, drawn and quartered or even worse, having their TOIL tinkered with, then nothing will ever change.
The civilised world got where it is by taking risks, making mistakes, learning from them and improving the situation as a result. That will never happen in HK because nobody in management (upper, middle or lower) is prepared to make a decision that could be wrong and result in face loss.
Hong Kong is nothing more than a very rich third world country and will remain so for a long time. The ME could probably be placed in the same category but at least the Arabs were smart enough to realise it and were happy to pay for (and listen to) foreign companies and expertise.
With regard to all the bu11sh1t about procedures that you guys have to put up with, it seems to me that you made your bed and now you have to lie in it. Back when CLK first opened and virtually nothing changed from the Kai Tak operation (if I remember correctly the movement rate was initially LESS than at Kai Tak) that was when you should have made a stand instead of just saying "yes John, how high would you like me to jump, John?". Perhaps if something had been said by the expats as a group, instead of the odd individual - all of whom have probably long since been given their "pink slips"-, maybe, just maybe, somebody might have listened.
Of course, the biggest obstacle to speaking up was always the possibility (probablity!) of non renewal of contract tho surely that is no longer such a big issue given the staff shortage and the proximity of retirement for a large number - not to mention the huge stockpiles of cash that you have all built up over the last 10 years
Perhaps now is the time to stand up for what you believe in and to do future HK controllers a huge favor - approach management as a large group of hugely experienced controllers and tell them what a crock of sh1t HK really has become under their management. Fat chance of that I guess Huh?
For those who have seriously had enough there are plenty of jobs available in the ME, and plenty more to come with the opening of the new airport at Jebel Ali. Just imagine the joy. SIX parallel runways, all separated, and not a hill as far as the eye can see and whilst Serco may have its problems at least you can make your feelings felt and put forward your ideas without quite the same oppressive fear of recrimination. They also pay more than enough to live on and you get plenty of time off to have a life. No more waiting for busses or living in fear of being caught sneaking out early.
One problem tho - it is a real bitch trying to navigate the sand in a wheelchair or a walking frame.
I noticed in one of the earlier posts that mention was made of "a certain investment". Don't tell me that you guys have blown some of your hard earned cash and have still not partaken of the millions that were promised - bummer!
RSI - what an ironic name given the repetitive strain it must have caused over the years. Still, there are quite a few McDonalds in the ME that could do with a bit of refurbishment
The civilised world got where it is by taking risks, making mistakes, learning from them and improving the situation as a result. That will never happen in HK because nobody in management (upper, middle or lower) is prepared to make a decision that could be wrong and result in face loss.
Hong Kong is nothing more than a very rich third world country and will remain so for a long time. The ME could probably be placed in the same category but at least the Arabs were smart enough to realise it and were happy to pay for (and listen to) foreign companies and expertise.
With regard to all the bu11sh1t about procedures that you guys have to put up with, it seems to me that you made your bed and now you have to lie in it. Back when CLK first opened and virtually nothing changed from the Kai Tak operation (if I remember correctly the movement rate was initially LESS than at Kai Tak) that was when you should have made a stand instead of just saying "yes John, how high would you like me to jump, John?". Perhaps if something had been said by the expats as a group, instead of the odd individual - all of whom have probably long since been given their "pink slips"-, maybe, just maybe, somebody might have listened.
Of course, the biggest obstacle to speaking up was always the possibility (probablity!) of non renewal of contract tho surely that is no longer such a big issue given the staff shortage and the proximity of retirement for a large number - not to mention the huge stockpiles of cash that you have all built up over the last 10 years
Perhaps now is the time to stand up for what you believe in and to do future HK controllers a huge favor - approach management as a large group of hugely experienced controllers and tell them what a crock of sh1t HK really has become under their management. Fat chance of that I guess Huh?
For those who have seriously had enough there are plenty of jobs available in the ME, and plenty more to come with the opening of the new airport at Jebel Ali. Just imagine the joy. SIX parallel runways, all separated, and not a hill as far as the eye can see and whilst Serco may have its problems at least you can make your feelings felt and put forward your ideas without quite the same oppressive fear of recrimination. They also pay more than enough to live on and you get plenty of time off to have a life. No more waiting for busses or living in fear of being caught sneaking out early.
One problem tho - it is a real bitch trying to navigate the sand in a wheelchair or a walking frame.
I noticed in one of the earlier posts that mention was made of "a certain investment". Don't tell me that you guys have blown some of your hard earned cash and have still not partaken of the millions that were promised - bummer!
RSI - what an ironic name given the repetitive strain it must have caused over the years. Still, there are quite a few McDonalds in the ME that could do with a bit of refurbishment
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Firstly I want to say thank you to the guys at HKG ATC. I have had the pleasure of meeting/drinking with/playing tennis with many guys in DB from ATC. Regardless of industry or position I think there are very few people in HKG who are not overworked and 'underpaid' compared with 10 years ago.
Personally, I feel myself relaxing as soon as I am in contact with HKG ATC inbound. I make mininal calls...I have found ATC incredibly proactive in giving directs/ high speed exemptions etc. On the ground...I understand that any delay is ambiguous just like the load controller or engineer telling me we have a problem....the age old problem....the delay, how long is a piece of string. So if a specified time delay isn't provided its probably because they don't know...so why keep asking?
I have to say I have never experienced 'snooty' or sarcastic ATC calls (in HKG) in over 14 years...but I have been embarassed by my colleagues being both over the radio!
Both ATC and us have the same goal...the safe and efficient arrival/departure of aircraft to/from HKG. So why argue or take it personally if something gets said!? Personally, I fly at least 150 till 5nm, even though I fly AIrbus, as the aim isn't to be at a height and speed at 1000' AAL...it is to be safe and efficient....and help preceding and following aircraft to be safe and efficient as well. I sometimes think that 1000' rule is the tail wagging the dog!
Anyway, to Marty/Greg/Rob et al...keep up the good work....the silent majority appreciate the humour and professionalism over the airwaves!
Personally, I feel myself relaxing as soon as I am in contact with HKG ATC inbound. I make mininal calls...I have found ATC incredibly proactive in giving directs/ high speed exemptions etc. On the ground...I understand that any delay is ambiguous just like the load controller or engineer telling me we have a problem....the age old problem....the delay, how long is a piece of string. So if a specified time delay isn't provided its probably because they don't know...so why keep asking?
I have to say I have never experienced 'snooty' or sarcastic ATC calls (in HKG) in over 14 years...but I have been embarassed by my colleagues being both over the radio!
Both ATC and us have the same goal...the safe and efficient arrival/departure of aircraft to/from HKG. So why argue or take it personally if something gets said!? Personally, I fly at least 150 till 5nm, even though I fly AIrbus, as the aim isn't to be at a height and speed at 1000' AAL...it is to be safe and efficient....and help preceding and following aircraft to be safe and efficient as well. I sometimes think that 1000' rule is the tail wagging the dog!
Anyway, to Marty/Greg/Rob et al...keep up the good work....the silent majority appreciate the humour and professionalism over the airwaves!
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[quote=Numero Crunchero;2933979.
Anyway, to Marty/Greg/Rob et al...keep up the good work....the silent majority appreciate the humour and professionalism over the airwaves![/quote]
keep up the good work?
Anyway, to Marty/Greg/Rob et al...keep up the good work....the silent majority appreciate the humour and professionalism over the airwaves![/quote]
keep up the good work?
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Bekol,
Is that you I spy further down the beach?
Relax, that nice 19 year old is probably a budding CPA-jock, or has an application in to become a controller. In which case - "DON'T DO IT".
Right, back to the beach.
Beachie
Is that you I spy further down the beach?
Relax, that nice 19 year old is probably a budding CPA-jock, or has an application in to become a controller. In which case - "DON'T DO IT".
Right, back to the beach.
Beachie
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Victor,
Are you Victor Meldrew?I don't beleive it!! Well my friend your speaking to the ''et al'' now.I wouldn't say Good Work,I'd say ''Excellent''. Given all the hurdles that are placed in the way, then those guys do a Great job.I worked bloody hard with them to give the best service that we possibily could,with the handcuffs and straight jackets we had around the HK area.So ur compaint is?
2 U up U 2 and C U Jimmy
Are you Victor Meldrew?I don't beleive it!! Well my friend your speaking to the ''et al'' now.I wouldn't say Good Work,I'd say ''Excellent''. Given all the hurdles that are placed in the way, then those guys do a Great job.I worked bloody hard with them to give the best service that we possibily could,with the handcuffs and straight jackets we had around the HK area.So ur compaint is?
2 U up U 2 and C U Jimmy