What do pilots do that 'irk' you?
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: aintsaying
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ConwayB,
1) Snags that have been going on for days without being reported to maintenance, just been verbally discussed amongst flightcrew.
2) Second officers sneaking copper wire so they can activate systems, then re safety the switch and not report system activation.
3) pulling circuit breakers so they can bypass useless/annoying systems, such as overspeed warning (clackers).
4) urinating in the main deck area and blaming it on the loaders at the last station (freighter configs).
5) Being spoken down to as if I got my licences and ratings from my breakfast ceral box. I'd love to work on one type day after day, but thats not how licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineers work.
Aviation is A TEAM SPORT.
1) Snags that have been going on for days without being reported to maintenance, just been verbally discussed amongst flightcrew.
2) Second officers sneaking copper wire so they can activate systems, then re safety the switch and not report system activation.
3) pulling circuit breakers so they can bypass useless/annoying systems, such as overspeed warning (clackers).
4) urinating in the main deck area and blaming it on the loaders at the last station (freighter configs).
5) Being spoken down to as if I got my licences and ratings from my breakfast ceral box. I'd love to work on one type day after day, but thats not how licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineers work.
Aviation is A TEAM SPORT.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 34S
Age: 59
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One has to admit, that ops crew have improved vastly since the days of the premadonnas who thought they were; and were treated as; Royalty, by some Airlines!
Also I think, largely due to the fact that so many "young chaps" are now being placed in command of aircraft(not that I'm in full support of this) additionally contributes to them, generally being more polite & respectfull.
I tend to get along amicably with most of my customer crews from all corners of the earth, including my host company, However....
the single most unacceptable occurance is:
-failure to greet once greeted
-or failure to acknowledge an obviously qualified person who is patiently waiting for flyer boys to collect their toys & finish off their conversations, in the flight deck, whilst as previously mentioned, the fresh crew are waiting in the galley area!
No points for figuring out that just maybe this aircraft is intended to leave in the next 60 minutes, and has just completed 4 sectors down line!!!
A simple courteous good morning, are you engineering; or how are ya doing, works wonders for most people!
I also do not speak to the back of any captains head, nor do I relay through any FO, for any airline or pilot.
If a premadonna shrugs me off in any way... we dont speak again, until he physically approaches me & apologises, regardless of the state of the aircraft or proximity to departure time. And my report will reflect this lack of professionalism.
There are still a few of the fresh command boys who fail to realise that a lot of engineers were certifying aircraft, long before they reached puberty & respect is in order, where the engineers behaviour displays such.
some of us carry licenses for as much as 10 aircraft types & 10 again different power plants.
Its all about professionalism & consideration! both ways
Also I think, largely due to the fact that so many "young chaps" are now being placed in command of aircraft(not that I'm in full support of this) additionally contributes to them, generally being more polite & respectfull.
I tend to get along amicably with most of my customer crews from all corners of the earth, including my host company, However....
the single most unacceptable occurance is:
-failure to greet once greeted
-or failure to acknowledge an obviously qualified person who is patiently waiting for flyer boys to collect their toys & finish off their conversations, in the flight deck, whilst as previously mentioned, the fresh crew are waiting in the galley area!
No points for figuring out that just maybe this aircraft is intended to leave in the next 60 minutes, and has just completed 4 sectors down line!!!
A simple courteous good morning, are you engineering; or how are ya doing, works wonders for most people!
I also do not speak to the back of any captains head, nor do I relay through any FO, for any airline or pilot.
If a premadonna shrugs me off in any way... we dont speak again, until he physically approaches me & apologises, regardless of the state of the aircraft or proximity to departure time. And my report will reflect this lack of professionalism.
There are still a few of the fresh command boys who fail to realise that a lot of engineers were certifying aircraft, long before they reached puberty & respect is in order, where the engineers behaviour displays such.
some of us carry licenses for as much as 10 aircraft types & 10 again different power plants.
Its all about professionalism & consideration! both ways
Duty Snag!!!
Having suffered a large number of defects on last flights of the day
( none of which could be sustantiated) all of which required airtests as part of the fault finding procedure, a large chalk board appeared in our crewroom which was also the transit point for the pilots.
Headed with "TODAYS DUTY SNAG"
During this period I remember "divergent yaw" entered by one pilot
on a brand new 700 page.
The line segeant said not a word. He just removed the page ripped it into several pieces dropped it in the bin and put in a nice new page.
Happy days.
( none of which could be sustantiated) all of which required airtests as part of the fault finding procedure, a large chalk board appeared in our crewroom which was also the transit point for the pilots.
Headed with "TODAYS DUTY SNAG"
During this period I remember "divergent yaw" entered by one pilot
on a brand new 700 page.
The line segeant said not a word. He just removed the page ripped it into several pieces dropped it in the bin and put in a nice new page.
Happy days.
Its worth noting Ladies and Gents that there are believe it or not some Engineers around who are not as fastidious as the good folk posting here.
There could be created an equally long list of Pilots things they dont like that engineers do !
Have to say that the boys at SRT who look after the orange fleet are excellent !.
See i have learnt something .
There could be created an equally long list of Pilots things they dont like that engineers do !
Have to say that the boys at SRT who look after the orange fleet are excellent !.
See i have learnt something .
Inbound defect notification is the biggest annoyance for me, sick of "we'd like to see an E&I engineer on arrival" - I just stand in front of the aircraft and wave now if they call up saying that - they can see me from there.
What is so hard about reading out what you've written in the log over the wireless. 30 min transit, 5min waiting for the punters to dawdle off, get on, find out defect is a no go or a Cat A MEL which can't depart if you have parts, 5min back to office to see if we have parts, back to aircraft, boarding time already and delay ensues.
New captains are fun, if you get a few go thru together, one will always be Captain Writey and one will be a good bloke who cops emergencies like they are going out of fashion.
What is so hard about reading out what you've written in the log over the wireless. 30 min transit, 5min waiting for the punters to dawdle off, get on, find out defect is a no go or a Cat A MEL which can't depart if you have parts, 5min back to office to see if we have parts, back to aircraft, boarding time already and delay ensues.
New captains are fun, if you get a few go thru together, one will always be Captain Writey and one will be a good bloke who cops emergencies like they are going out of fashion.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great Thread!!!
Fantastic thread! I really enjoy it! 
My contribution:
1)
My colleagues had been bothered already for weeks by a captain who constantly questioned the FCOM advice not to fully retract the slats after landing in high ambient temperatures.
One day, they relayed him to me on the phone (as if I knew better than them...!?
). Pilot was already aware about the background as given in the FCOM, told me that my colleagues had explained the issue to the best of their knowledge. blablablah.
I didn´t need to say much myself, he kept apologising for his call (?!). Especially when I kind of barked at him after minutes of useless talk: "Do you want me to request a thermal analysis from Airbus for the front spar area????".
2)
Accompanied a friend of mine in "civil" clothing at SHJ - but with company badge and airport permit properly displayed -, chatting on entering the cockpit.
Captain, adressing my friend, pointing at me with his finger: "Who´s this?" - "Ah, excuse me! You can talk to me DIRECTLY!"
3)
A340 flight crews taking off with all four bleeds "off" - but packs "on". Great idea! 
4)
A340 flight crews insisting on tech delay, when they themselves ask for MLI crosscheck of degraded (not failed!) fuel quantity indication. And verbally complaining about "fuel hiding", various "anomalies" without useful details.
But: In general, I think we get along quite well...
Cheers,
J.V.
My contribution:
1)
My colleagues had been bothered already for weeks by a captain who constantly questioned the FCOM advice not to fully retract the slats after landing in high ambient temperatures.
One day, they relayed him to me on the phone (as if I knew better than them...!?
). Pilot was already aware about the background as given in the FCOM, told me that my colleagues had explained the issue to the best of their knowledge. blablablah. I didn´t need to say much myself, he kept apologising for his call (?!). Especially when I kind of barked at him after minutes of useless talk: "Do you want me to request a thermal analysis from Airbus for the front spar area????".
2)
Accompanied a friend of mine in "civil" clothing at SHJ - but with company badge and airport permit properly displayed -, chatting on entering the cockpit.
Captain, adressing my friend, pointing at me with his finger: "Who´s this?" - "Ah, excuse me! You can talk to me DIRECTLY!"
3)
A340 flight crews taking off with all four bleeds "off" - but packs "on". Great idea!
4)
A340 flight crews insisting on tech delay, when they themselves ask for MLI crosscheck of degraded (not failed!) fuel quantity indication. And verbally complaining about "fuel hiding", various "anomalies" without useful details.
But: In general, I think we get along quite well...
Cheers,
J.V.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice thread you guys. As licensed engineer and pilot (now Capt B767), I'd like to think that I treat as I had wished to be treated when I was engineering. But I still get pissed off with exactly the sort of stuff you write about here. I was once told by the chief pilot of Airtours not to mention to the others (pilots) that I was an engineer! "Whyever not" I exclaimed, "I'm dam proud of being an engineer, and I'm only doing this 'cause the money's better"!!
Let us not forget though that I.A.W the ANO 'the tech log can also be used as a means of communication between crews', so entries don't necessarily have to be a defect. I will sometimes put "Advise" for example when 3 wheel covers are coming up on life at the same time, knowing we only have one at the base. I'd like to hope it just give enginering the 'heads-up'. Putting 'For Info' should be the same and might just mean "We had a funny problem, but it isn't there now, it might occur again, has anyone else reported anything similar?" Just to give you guys something to look out for as your experience might tip you off to the fact that you had a similar defect that started the same way. It's the 'For Infos that actually record a defect that piss me off, ie. 'For Info: stb. nav light U/S'
My particular dislike is when the engineer tells them how long it's going to be to fix and then they get a slot in about half the time hoping by some miracle it will be alright any minute.
And, when they start loading the passengers without consulting the engineers who might be working in the cabin.
Generally, I find all the engineers to be top guys, down to earth and very patient. I have to admit I have sometimes used three pages to discribe a defect, after all I don't pay for the paper so why not use the stuff and give as much info as possible.
Let us not forget though that I.A.W the ANO 'the tech log can also be used as a means of communication between crews', so entries don't necessarily have to be a defect. I will sometimes put "Advise" for example when 3 wheel covers are coming up on life at the same time, knowing we only have one at the base. I'd like to hope it just give enginering the 'heads-up'. Putting 'For Info' should be the same and might just mean "We had a funny problem, but it isn't there now, it might occur again, has anyone else reported anything similar?" Just to give you guys something to look out for as your experience might tip you off to the fact that you had a similar defect that started the same way. It's the 'For Infos that actually record a defect that piss me off, ie. 'For Info: stb. nav light U/S'
My particular dislike is when the engineer tells them how long it's going to be to fix and then they get a slot in about half the time hoping by some miracle it will be alright any minute.
And, when they start loading the passengers without consulting the engineers who might be working in the cabin.
Generally, I find all the engineers to be top guys, down to earth and very patient. I have to admit I have sometimes used three pages to discribe a defect, after all I don't pay for the paper so why not use the stuff and give as much info as possible.
They earn more money than me for less hours work.!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They usually smell better than I do at the end of a working day!!!!!!!!!!!
(Take that back the person who said at the begining as well)
They fair far better in the chasing women stakes!!!!!!!!!!!
They retire earlier on better pensions
When the machinery goes tits in a snow storm they retire to the bar to await my call.
They don't just irk me I hate them!!!!!!!!!! Argh
They usually smell better than I do at the end of a working day!!!!!!!!!!!
(Take that back the person who said at the begining as well)
They fair far better in the chasing women stakes!!!!!!!!!!!
They retire earlier on better pensions
When the machinery goes tits in a snow storm they retire to the bar to await my call.
They don't just irk me I hate them!!!!!!!!!! Argh
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: south
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
a few pointers i would like to ad to this discussion
(1) when the flight deck use there own headsets and do not replace the the others back
(2) when we are expected to find there lost items like glasses,laptops,pens and ask them to be put back in there pigeon holes-like im there skivy
(3) missing 10 tech log pages for 1st sector of the day then going back 5 for 2nd sector
(4) moaning about the fuel total no correct down 200 kgs
(5) not realising that the aircraft is mine UNTIL i sign the tech log so i can do anything i want, sit anywhere i want, until i want
(6) and 1 last thing moaning there work space is dirty it,s there crap there finger prints on the screens there food in the ctr consol
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
other than that having a good day at work today
(1) when the flight deck use there own headsets and do not replace the the others back
(2) when we are expected to find there lost items like glasses,laptops,pens and ask them to be put back in there pigeon holes-like im there skivy
(3) missing 10 tech log pages for 1st sector of the day then going back 5 for 2nd sector
(4) moaning about the fuel total no correct down 200 kgs
(5) not realising that the aircraft is mine UNTIL i sign the tech log so i can do anything i want, sit anywhere i want, until i want
(6) and 1 last thing moaning there work space is dirty
it,s there crap there finger prints on the screens there food in the ctr consolAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
other than that having a good day at work today
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stansted
Age: 64
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Biological Interfaces
The only Biological Interfaces we see are coming to pickup or drop off Aircraft for major maintenance. The sight of lots of Aircraft with there draws off and in two million bits seems to concentrate their minds, and for once you get their undivided attention when you talk to them.
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was just irked!
Off to staff travel.
Passed Captain Plonker on the way - standing outside the Training Centre shouting into a mobile phone to impress a group of trainee cabin crew.
Take my number disc and join the queue. Two ahead of me - fifteen to twenty minutes at most. Not too bad.
There's another pilot at personnel filling out forms. In comes Capt. Plonker still wah-wahing on the mobile. Pilot-pal says, "Here's your number mate" and hands him a disc as arranged earlier...
["Get me a number when you get there old chap!" "No problem" "Great!"]
First in the queue naturally.
Takes his mass of complex family ID90 routing requests to the counter and blocks the system for forty minutes, holding up the whole process while taking calls on the mobile every five minutes.
He could have done what everyone else does when making complicated multiple bookings - drop them off early in the morning and pick them up later. But not Capt. Plonker... Oh no! His brain was replaced by an ego at the flying school...
We've all had the misfortune to run into Capt. Plonker haven't we? A complete Plonker both on and off the flight deck.
Off to staff travel.
Passed Captain Plonker on the way - standing outside the Training Centre shouting into a mobile phone to impress a group of trainee cabin crew.
Take my number disc and join the queue. Two ahead of me - fifteen to twenty minutes at most. Not too bad.
There's another pilot at personnel filling out forms. In comes Capt. Plonker still wah-wahing on the mobile. Pilot-pal says, "Here's your number mate" and hands him a disc as arranged earlier...
["Get me a number when you get there old chap!" "No problem" "Great!"]
First in the queue naturally.
Takes his mass of complex family ID90 routing requests to the counter and blocks the system for forty minutes, holding up the whole process while taking calls on the mobile every five minutes.
He could have done what everyone else does when making complicated multiple bookings - drop them off early in the morning and pick them up later. But not Capt. Plonker... Oh no! His brain was replaced by an ego at the flying school...
We've all had the misfortune to run into Capt. Plonker haven't we? A complete Plonker both on and off the flight deck.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Dr Illitout
Funnily enough that airlines crews like leaving the radar switched on too.
What annoys me? Engineers who sit in MY seat for engine runs or similar and don't don't re-adjust it to MY position!! Don't these people know who I am?
What also annoys me. Well, actually it amuses me because I used to do it when I was a hangar rat. What amuses me are the engineers who leave a couple of screw, nuts and washers in the cup holders or on the console to make the pilots wonder what wasn't put back properly. That keeps me wondering for hours on a long sector
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Uk
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QUOTE:[Flintstone] "What annoys me? Engineers who sit in MY seat for engine runs or similar and don't don't re-adjust it to MY position!! Don't these people know who I am?"
Just because you sit on your ass in that seat pretending to be Mr important responsible for all those lives behind you (Only one aircraft full) doesn't mean its your seat, and until I'm satisfied its a servicable machine its mine!!!
and if your nice I'll let you have it to take for a spin. And the same goes for all you freinds who want to fly the rest of the fleet.
Just because you sit on your ass in that seat pretending to be Mr important responsible for all those lives behind you (Only one aircraft full) doesn't mean its your seat, and until I'm satisfied its a servicable machine its mine!!!
and if your nice I'll let you have it to take for a spin. And the same goes for all you freinds who want to fly the rest of the fleet.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: FL410
Age: 39
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi , posting from Iran.Here we also have the old story of difficulties between Maintenance personel and Flight crew . I received an email one year ago that looks like interesting and somehow relates to this topic here it is :
After every flight, Qantas pilots fill out a form, called a "gripe
sheet,"
which tells mechanics about problems with the aircraft. The mechanics
correct the problems, document their repairs on the form, and then
pilots
review the gripe sheets before the next flight. Never let it be said
that
ground crews lack a sense of humor. Here are some actual maintenance
complaints submitted by Qantas' pilots (marked with a P) and the
solutions
recorded (marked with an S) by maintenance engineers. By the way,
Qantas is
the only major airline that has never had an accident.
P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.
S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.
P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.
S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.
P: Something loose in cockpit.
S: Something tightened in cockpit.
P: Dead bugs on windshield.
S: Live bugs on backorder.
P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute
descent.
S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.
P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.
S: Evidence removed.
P: DME volume unbelievably loud.
S: DME volume set to more believable level.
P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.
S: That's what they're for.
P: IFF inoperative.
S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.
P: Suspected crack in windshield.
S: Suspect you're right.
P: Number 3 engine missing.
S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.
P: Aircraft handles funny.
S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right, and be serious.
P: Target radar hums.
S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.
P: Mouse in cockpit.
S: Cat installed.
P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget
pounding on something with a hammer.
S: Took hammer away from midget
Here pilots belive that they know so much and maintenance staff belive the pilots know nothing .... have to think and write you some stories .
After every flight, Qantas pilots fill out a form, called a "gripe
sheet,"
which tells mechanics about problems with the aircraft. The mechanics
correct the problems, document their repairs on the form, and then
pilots
review the gripe sheets before the next flight. Never let it be said
that
ground crews lack a sense of humor. Here are some actual maintenance
complaints submitted by Qantas' pilots (marked with a P) and the
solutions
recorded (marked with an S) by maintenance engineers. By the way,
Qantas is
the only major airline that has never had an accident.
P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.
S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.
P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.
S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.
P: Something loose in cockpit.
S: Something tightened in cockpit.
P: Dead bugs on windshield.
S: Live bugs on backorder.
P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute
descent.
S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.
P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.
S: Evidence removed.
P: DME volume unbelievably loud.
S: DME volume set to more believable level.
P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.
S: That's what they're for.
P: IFF inoperative.
S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.
P: Suspected crack in windshield.
S: Suspect you're right.
P: Number 3 engine missing.
S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.
P: Aircraft handles funny.
S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right, and be serious.
P: Target radar hums.
S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.
P: Mouse in cockpit.
S: Cat installed.
P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget
pounding on something with a hammer.
S: Took hammer away from midget
Here pilots belive that they know so much and maintenance staff belive the pilots know nothing .... have to think and write you some stories .
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: farrrr east
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By the way,
Qantas is
the only major airline that has never had an accident.
Qantas is
the only major airline that has never had an accident.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_1
This is not the correct heading for funnies or miss quotes.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 34S
Age: 59
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On-Markbob:
It's great to know the pilot world does include some worldly people, who are actually of sufficient experience to assume the task of Captain of the Ship! Nice.
flintstone:
I like your sense of humour, mate!
One could " feel" all the cages of engineers, around the world, being rattled.
it only upsets the intimidated ones.
sure that was your intention?
as mentioned before, mutual respect will produce a far more pleasant & safe environment for all, in particular as far as the "only 2" responsible parties, are concerned.
It's great to know the pilot world does include some worldly people, who are actually of sufficient experience to assume the task of Captain of the Ship! Nice.
flintstone:
I like your sense of humour, mate!
One could " feel" all the cages of engineers, around the world, being rattled.
it only upsets the intimidated ones.
sure that was your intention?
as mentioned before, mutual respect will produce a far more pleasant & safe environment for all, in particular as far as the "only 2" responsible parties, are concerned.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Mtl
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilots have cleans hands...
Well, just one thing:
When a crew write down in logbook: "Autopilot u/s"...
Is it that hard to be a little bit more specific: we don't have access to a time travel machine to check out the cockpit in flight! I need info...
But, eh, let be honest: there's good and bad individuals in all trades! Pilots, Grease monkeys, sparkys: we are trying our best to keep these machines flying!
Cheers!
When a crew write down in logbook: "Autopilot u/s"...
Is it that hard to be a little bit more specific: we don't have access to a time travel machine to check out the cockpit in flight! I need info...
But, eh, let be honest: there's good and bad individuals in all trades! Pilots, Grease monkeys, sparkys: we are trying our best to keep these machines flying!
Cheers!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Just because you sit on your ass in that seat pretending to be Mr important responsible for all those lives behind you (Only one aircraft full) doesn't mean its your seat, and until I'm satisfied its a servicable machine its mine!!! and if your nice I'll let you have it to take for a spin. And the same goes for all you freinds who want to fly the rest of the fleet.
flintstone:
I like your sense of humour, mate!
One could " feel" all the cages of engineers, around the world, being rattled.
it only upsets the intimidated ones.
sure that was your intention?
I like your sense of humour, mate!
One could " feel" all the cages of engineers, around the world, being rattled.
it only upsets the intimidated ones.
sure that was your intention?
(The buggers are that thick skinned you'd have to drive an insult into them with a rivet gun )
Just having some fun with the oily hand gang for whom I have the utmost respect.
