BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

[Hotel Mode]

Not that I want to see those loonies over at BASSA win but I have it on good authority that next time there will be fewer VCC as many have chosen to un-volunteer because;

I doubt its very many. Plus BA has trained 2000 odd additional VCCs since the last strike who havent yet flown in anger. I cant see this lot un-volunteering at this stage.

WW is getting a promotion to a new position, hence the pay rise. KW is being paid less than WW was for the same job.

BA only made a small profit only because the cost savings were made, the underlying numbers arent that amazing. It would still have been a loss without them. The profits are certainly not enough to start rebuilding the ageing fleet yet. To say we are out of the woods is union rhetoric.

[Abbey Road]

Fewer VCC or not, there is also an ever increasing number of MF crew to now throw in to the mix. Let Unite and BASSA bring their strike on - it will be unprotected, and BA can sack the dross ..... if they have the guts to even strike in the first place. They should remember that a vote for a strike is not the same as actually walking out on strike - we'll see just how confident they really are this time round.

[report call sign]

NOW,,,,,,,a little message for all those planning to strike
I so so hope, for your own good, that your UNIONs ballot for IA is legal, i really really do............ and moving forward I even more hope that their call for strike is, legal.......because if it isnt, and you go out, i know over 5000 strike breakers that will be laughing so loud that the smiles on their faces will be from LHR to SYD!

you are really relying on your UNION now guys to lead you in the right direction, because lets face it, they really have done a tremendous job in that already havent they? Leadership is really dripping from their gills! by loosing every single court case they have faced, lost you your staff travel that they told you they would get back......what were the distant calls i remember hearing? ummmmmmm "oh dont worry members, you always loose your ST, it hapens every time, dont worry, it will come back after 2 weeks!!!!" yeah right good advise!!!

oh and WHILE you are sticking ya cross in ya box, just think of the 22 days of IA that have already taken place and actually what they achieved....ummmmmmm....ehhhhh, ummmmmmm????

oh, and while we are at it, dont go spending too much on the old credit cards for Christmas, you really dont want big bills coming through the post in the New Year do you
Happy Christmas!

[Caribbean Boy]

I like this quote from Tony Woodley: "British Airways knows what it must do to end this dispute.

"Four of the five outstanding issues are no cost issues for BA, and are about treating cabin crew with dignity, respect and ending the climate of persecution.

"The fifth item is about stopping BA from imposing a near minimum waged workforce and killing BA's brand."

Since when did Woodley, who called the strikes this year, care about BA's brand?

[report call sign]

exactly!.......................

[Chesh01]

I'd rather a vcc than a xxxx!

Strike? Bring it on!

Which side are you on? Winners or losers?

I am putting my family, wages and opportunity to slap BASSA in the face first. BASSA are no longer fit for purpose!

Coming to work means you are doing the right thing.

They might flash their silly key rings at work but that means nothing outside the "safety toughened" glass bubble. Watch the strikers bow there heads in shame amongst non BA people if the strike subject comes up and see them cower at the school gates when they drop their kids off to school. Their only justification will be their ridiculous BA management bullying rhetoric.

Well us non-strikers have got the genral public, the goverment, big Willie's beat the strike statergy and the city of London's money men behind us. Note the rising share price. How can BASSA beat that?

[Colonel White]

Oh Dear...

Seems like someone in Unite not only doesn't understand the current legislation on protected and unprotected strikes, but also can't count. You would have thought that they would have sought to get a bit of leverage by hitting the Easter period, after all, according to Len McCluskey it isn't sacred. But the ballot is set to run from Dec 21st to Jan 21st. The 12 weeks period after that takes us to April 17th. So any strike action would have to wind up just over a week before Easter. Have Unite had a brown trouser moment ??

Think there will be some very interesting numbers coming out. First off, prizes for guessing how many members Unite will claim to have ? And will this tally with the figures from BA ? Could we see a rerun of last December ? What is the membership now down to ? At the last official figure, it looked like it was below 10,000. How many more will have walked ?
Next comes the turnout. In the previous strike ballots, Unite managed to get about 65% of the membership to vote for strike action. You would think that the people left in the union would be the hardliners, so on that basis the union must be expecting something around the 90%+ mark this time. Snag. In the consultative ballot over the offer held in June, only about half the members could be bothered to vote, and of that figure a third wanted to accept the deal. So how many will go for another strike vote this time - bear in mind that Tony Woodley has admitted that the previous strike achieved nothing.
The killer is the number who, assuming that there will be a majority in favour of strike action, are prepared to walk off the job. Several things to consider this time.

First of all, BA said it would withdraw staff travel. BASSA said it would come back in - what was it ? - 5 minutes ? Cabin crew thought BA was bluffing ... WRONG !! Several thousand staff made that mistake and they only just got it back without seniority. How many are going to wish to kiss goodbye to it for another year ?

Second is the pay impact. A lot of crew thought they would only lose pay for the days they were on strike - WRONG !!! They lost the whole trip and had to wait to be rerostered. Anyone fancy losing a bucket load of pay again ? There's also the number of days action that Unite will call for. They've tried 22 days, split into two batches. It didn't work. So next time they are going to have to look at longer, more concerted blocks of strike action. Look out for 15-21 days in a block. How many cabin crew will be able to lose a months flying pay ? Especially as inflation is now running at 4% and interest rates are likely to be on the move. Don't be so sure that Unite will cough up the increased strike pay this time around.

Third, and probably key is the actual strike reasons. When it comes to the crunch, how many cabin crew give a hoot about the facilities agreement ? How many cabin crew who were genuinely sick didn't get paid by BA ? And if they didn't, why didn't they bring in a doctor's note as asked ? How many cabin crew are really upset by this and are prepared to put their necks on the line ? Then there's the restoration of seniority for staff travel - I can see that around 4-5000 may go for that as they may have lost it. Final one is the disciplinaries. All told we are talking about less than 1% of the union members. Worth getting steamed up over ?

Don't get me wrong. I know that cabin crew can be fiercely supportive of one and other, and will wish to see percieved injustices put right, but I can't see that these arguements having the same backing that the original dispute aroused.

The final nail in the coffin will be if BA turn round and state in advance that they will be considering this to be a continuation of the previous dispute and as such it will be unprotected. Unite will be forced to explain to the members what that means even if they disagree with it. The threat of being sacked might have a salutory effect on those considering strike action. Even if BA were subsequently found to have wrongfully dismissed staff, they are under no obligation to rehire them.

Faced with this, I seriously wonder how many cabin crew will wish to take a chance and strike. In their position I don't think I would.

[keel beam]

Carribean Boy

Unite said it was also in dispute with BA because of the introduction of staff on different terms and conditions without the agreement of the union.

I think this Quote in the Independent was more revealing. The Union is still wanting to run the airline.

If THEY feel there is a market out there, why don't THEY set up their own airline, THEY can run it how THEY like at the wages and conditions THEY want.

BA management have a petty good idea how to run an airline and what is needed to make it successful. If it needs to tweek service or whatever is required to improve how well the airline does, then BA management will make them.

The Unite and BASSA leadership really need to get their heads out of their arses and see the daylight (even smell the coffee!)

[MrBunker]

Regardless, the hardcore will be (and indeed, are) whipping themselves into a masturbatory frenzy about the prospect of another chance to show BA what they're made of. Along with the standard accompanying abusive epithets, nicknames and hollow, rhetorical sloganeering. Everyone back on board for another turn round the same old route.

Depressing and indicative of Unite/BASSA/Amicus' singular lack of a strategic notion.

MrB

[Beagle9]

Item five

Unite's point five is interesting because it's the first time in all the ballots for strikes that New Fleet/Mixed Fleet has been mentioned. This is strange, because it's been the main item vexing cabin crew throughout this. (Remember Operation Columbus?)

I had assumed that it hadn't been a strike vote item, because there is nothing legally to stop BA setting up a new fleet, and since existing crews' pay and conditions were staying the same it would be illegal for Unite to call a strike over the issue.

Was I wrong? If so, why hasn't it been a strike item before? What's changed now?

If there's anyone out there with the definitive answer to this, can you post it? Thanks.

[TorC]

Wonder if it's just coincidence that the ballot closes on 21/01, the same day that the BA/IB merger should be completed, WW moves to IAG and KW takes-over as BA CEO? Also, will the People Dept by then (if it isn't already) be under the Legal Dept?

Strikers could find themselves dealing with a new bunch of people with a different game-plan to what they have become used-to.

[charliecossie]

we44 said:-
"And I've heard that the 9 month bonus we are to get in the New Year won't be offered to those crew who went on strike."

What bonus?

[MIDLGW]

Beagle9,

Work force cannot be balloted (for IA) on something that hasn't happened yet. I think this is the reason MF/NF hasn't been mentioned in ballots before.

If the union people were a teeny tiny bit clever, they would've only put MF as a reason to ballot. They might just have got away with it legally. It's too late now though. One can't help but wonder if this has been done on purpose by the union.

[Wirbelsturm]

Seems like Len McKlusky wants to lead a victorious parade to the job centre in exactly the way he did in Liverpool with the dockers. Won't affect old Len anyway if BASSA fold he will have just removed a thorn from the Unions side.

Sadly for Len the socialist state of Hugo Chavez doesn't exist in the UK and thus the idea of leading a socialist brotherhood into nationalised power isn't going to happen in his or my lifetime.

There is nothing 'new' per se in the ballot thus, legally, it will be a minefield as to whether the IA is legal and, as we have seen in the past, BA have the upper hand in the court scores.

Good luck Len and BASSA.

[Caribbean Boy]

TorC wrote:

Wonder if it's just coincidence that the ballot closes on 21/01, the same day that the BA/IB merger should be completed, WW moves to IAG and KW takes-over as BA CEO? Also, will the People Dept by then (if it isn't already) be under the Legal Dept?

Strikers could find themselves dealing with a new bunch of people with a different game-plan to what they have become used-to.

BA is well aware that Unite may seek to exploit the fact that the new chief executive of BA will be Keith Williams, and somehow get a better deal. Unite would be wrong to think like this. Whilst Williams might perhaps speak more nicely to Unite, there is not a cigarette paper between him and Willie Walsh on matters of policy.

Furthermore, it should be borne in mind that Williams, as chief executive of BA, will report to the chief executive of IAG - who will be Willie Walsh. There is no way that Williams will grant a concession of any seriousness without first getting Walsh's approval. So, Walsh will still be calling the shots.

[malcolmf]

BASSA and it's members are as entitled to have a dispute with their employer as any other union, regardless how other work groups within the company feel. However:
1) Can all BASSA members please vote in this ballot
2) Can they all vote the way they are actually going to act if a strike is called?
It is unfair on their fellow union members to vote to strike to "send a message to Willie (or Keith)" and then dump them in it by not turning out.

[strikemaster82]

Yes and the thing about 'sending messages' is that those messages are not always interpreted the way you want them. For example, "we are a strong and tough work group and we won't back down" might be interpreted as "these guys are a major obstacle to our progress and we'd better cut them right down to size".

Just a thought for those with pens hovering over ballot papers.

[Abbey Road]

BASSA and it's members are as entitled to have a dispute with their employer as any other union, regardless how other work groups within the company feel.

Except when the delinquent actions and words of BASSA's 'dispute' endangers the livelihoods of every other employee of BA!

[ranger07]

BASSA and it's members are as entitled to have a dispute with their employer as any other union, regardless how other work groups within the company feel.

Of course, why should they give a dam about the rest of us and be bothered that we have been changing and adapting to revised working practises over the past however many years?

After all, as a certain poster on here said recently, that they are 'BA', the rest of us are not pertinent to the Airline!!

I just hope that this concludes one way or another SOON...I am sick to the back teeth of it!!!!!!!!!

[Snas]

Director of Finance Online - Blogs - The Edge Blog Archive Unite management too incompetent to take on BA?s managers

For me this chaps view hits the nail on the head.