BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Betty Girl,
I really do sympathise with your predicament, and agree with regards to the hat issue. However, I have heard the "hat" message came right from the top. I think WW really has had enough, and this was one of his ways of getting "personal", even though he claims not to do that.
I think Plodding Along summed it up nicely with the German analogy (ironic, given all the rhetoric from BASSA). Not all Germans were evil monsters in the 1930s, but somehow, they allowed their country to slide that way, because not enough people spoke up, or asked pertinent questions soon enough.
There has certainly not been enough objective analysis by most CC, but instead, most seem to have been happy to be informed by the latest "Galley FM" rumour. That's fine if its work gossip, but if you're gambling with your career, and perks, you'd think they might give it a little bit more thought than just listen to the drunken ramblings of an amateur tomato grower.
I know you're not one of them. Is it your fault? Only you can answer that to yourself. I doubt it. Some people are impressionable, and the rhetoric of amateur tomato growers can be persuasive, if that's all you listen to. That is the key. Don't listen to just one source; listen to all the sides, then make your mind up.
We're just supa-dupa clever!
No doubt a certain poster is already hot-footing it to the police station, as I type (good luck with that BTW
).
I really do sympathise with your predicament, and agree with regards to the hat issue. However, I have heard the "hat" message came right from the top. I think WW really has had enough, and this was one of his ways of getting "personal", even though he claims not to do that.
I think Plodding Along summed it up nicely with the German analogy (ironic, given all the rhetoric from BASSA). Not all Germans were evil monsters in the 1930s, but somehow, they allowed their country to slide that way, because not enough people spoke up, or asked pertinent questions soon enough.
There has certainly not been enough objective analysis by most CC, but instead, most seem to have been happy to be informed by the latest "Galley FM" rumour. That's fine if its work gossip, but if you're gambling with your career, and perks, you'd think they might give it a little bit more thought than just listen to the drunken ramblings of an amateur tomato grower.
I know you're not one of them. Is it your fault? Only you can answer that to yourself. I doubt it. Some people are impressionable, and the rhetoric of amateur tomato growers can be persuasive, if that's all you listen to. That is the key. Don't listen to just one source; listen to all the sides, then make your mind up.
Just out of interest because I don't think you are cabin crew, how do you get to see what is being said on those two forums? I notice that a lot of pilots seem to have access.
No doubt a certain poster is already hot-footing it to the police station, as I type (good luck with that BTW).
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Mixed fleet is here because of bassa, blame them and sort them out for all our sakes.
That is exactly what we (the moderate crew) have been trying to do.
Initially, as union members, we spoke out. Many of us have been banned from CrewForum and BASSA forum for doing so. The BA ESS forum was shut down due to the abhorent tone used by the militants.
Some of us spoke to the reps, and got short, sharp replies "Can't you see what we are trying to do for you?". A few of us brave souls went to the mass meetings and dared to put our hands up voting against the masses.
We have now left Unite and set up the PCCC - and encouraged others to do the same. We crossed the picket lines during the strike. Notices get ripped down off the noticeboard (sometimes within minutes). Many of our members maildrop their friends and colleagues - now BASSA militants are complaining to managers about that! One CrewForum CSD is actively campaigning to stop us allowing to communicate via maildrop. The PCCC is not even allowed to be mentioned on BASSA forum!
I have personally spoken to a Unite official and asked why DH is still the branch secretary when he no longer works for BA. The reply: "A very good question - Unite also want to know that, you'll have to speak to the reps."
The majority of BASSA reps probably don't even work for BA now, yet they are allowed to spearhead this vindictive, malicious campaign against BA. Why? This corruption has gone way too far now, but yet everyone - BA, Unite, cabin crew themselves seem powerless to stop it.
Can someone, somewhere please tell us just exactly HOW you expect us to "sort them out"?
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The majority of BASSA reps probably don't even work for BA now, yet they are allowed to spearhead this vindictive, malicious campaign against BA. Why? This corruption has gone way too far now, but yet everyone - BA, Unite, cabin crew themselves seem powerless to stop it.
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Plodding Along
That is exactly what we (the moderate crew) have been trying to do.
Initially, as union members, we spoke out. Many of us have been banned from CrewForum and BASSA forum for doing so. The BA ESS forum was shut down due to the abhorent tone used by the militants.
Some of us spoke to the reps, and got short, sharp replies "Can't you see what we are trying to do for you?". A few of us brave souls went to the mass meetings and dared to put our hands up voting against the masses.
We have now left Unite and set up the PCCC - and encouraged others to do the same. We crossed the picket lines during the strike. Notices get ripped down off the noticeboard (sometimes within minutes). Many of our members maildrop their friends and colleagues - now BASSA militants are complaining to managers about that! One CrewForum CSD is actively campaigning to stop us allowing to communicate via maildrop. The PCCC is not even allowed to be mentioned on BASSA forum!
I have personally spoken to a Unite official and asked why DH is still the branch secretary when he no longer works for BA. The reply: "A very good question - Unite also want to know that, you'll have to speak to the reps."
The majority of BASSA reps probably don't even work for BA now, yet they are allowed to spearhead this vindictive, malicious campaign against BA. Why? This corruption has gone way too far now, but yet everyone - BA, Unite, cabin crew themselves seem powerless to stop it.
Can someone, somewhere please tell us just exactly HOW you expect us to "sort them out"?
That is exactly what we (the moderate crew) have been trying to do.
Initially, as union members, we spoke out. Many of us have been banned from CrewForum and BASSA forum for doing so. The BA ESS forum was shut down due to the abhorent tone used by the militants.
Some of us spoke to the reps, and got short, sharp replies "Can't you see what we are trying to do for you?". A few of us brave souls went to the mass meetings and dared to put our hands up voting against the masses.
We have now left Unite and set up the PCCC - and encouraged others to do the same. We crossed the picket lines during the strike. Notices get ripped down off the noticeboard (sometimes within minutes). Many of our members maildrop their friends and colleagues - now BASSA militants are complaining to managers about that! One CrewForum CSD is actively campaigning to stop us allowing to communicate via maildrop. The PCCC is not even allowed to be mentioned on BASSA forum!
I have personally spoken to a Unite official and asked why DH is still the branch secretary when he no longer works for BA. The reply: "A very good question - Unite also want to know that, you'll have to speak to the reps."
The majority of BASSA reps probably don't even work for BA now, yet they are allowed to spearhead this vindictive, malicious campaign against BA. Why? This corruption has gone way too far now, but yet everyone - BA, Unite, cabin crew themselves seem powerless to stop it.
Can someone, somewhere please tell us just exactly HOW you expect us to "sort them out"?
The first bold point is genuinely interesting. It does raise questions as to how much control Unite actually can wield over BASSA.
The second point, just to say, a fine question. I think people really simplify the mess that is a headstrong BASSA.
Cheers,
MrB
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Interesting article on FT.com
Cabin crew union halts ballot over BA offer
Hopes of resolving British Airways’ bitter year-long dispute with cabin crew were dealt a severe blow on Thursday when their trade union suspended a planned ballot on the company’s latest offer.
Unite’s main cabin crew branch, Bassa, will now press the union for a fresh ballot on strikes, although it is unlikely that these could happen until early next year. Time is running out to organise industrial action for the Christmas period.
The union’s leadership still appears cautious about renewed strikes. BA has been hinting that if there is more industrial action, the company could have legal grounds to dismiss the strikers – a potentially explosive move.
The union had been due to ask its 11,000 cabin crew members to vote on whether they wanted to accept the proposed deal, but Bassa decided earlier this week it could not support recommending the offer.
Tony Woodley, Unite’s joint general secretary, said any sense that the offer was being presented to cabin crew over the heads of “unwilling representatives” would be damaging to the union.
“Under these circumstances I have suspended the ballot on the offer and will meet with all our cabin crew representatives as a matter of urgency to consider the next steps,” he said.
Unite and BA had reached a tentative agreement on the new offer last month, raising hopes of ending the dispute which has so far caused 22 days of strikes, costing the airline £150m.
It began more than a year ago, initially over cost savings, but became embroiled in rows over disciplinary action and the stripping of travel concessions from strikers.
The offer provided for Acas, the conciliation service, to arbitrate in disciplinary cases arising from the dispute. Discounted tickets for staff would be restored immediately, but free seats staff can get after longer service with the company would not be restored until April 2013.
Bassa objected to clauses in the deal, including one requiring the union to drop all outstanding legal claims arising from the dispute.
The cabin crew branch will now press for another strike ballot, but Unite officials fear there could be legal problems if it went ahead with this without first putting BA’s offer to members.
One option is to put the offer to members without recommendation in a consultative ballot, and if it is rejected then hold a strike ballot.
BA said: “We believe that British Airways cabin crew deserve the opportunity to vote on these proposals, which address all their concerns and represent a fair resolution of this dispute. The way forward is for all sections of Unite to put aside their internal divisions and allow crew to have a direct say on their own future.”
Hopes of resolving British Airways’ bitter year-long dispute with cabin crew were dealt a severe blow on Thursday when their trade union suspended a planned ballot on the company’s latest offer.
Unite’s main cabin crew branch, Bassa, will now press the union for a fresh ballot on strikes, although it is unlikely that these could happen until early next year. Time is running out to organise industrial action for the Christmas period.
The union’s leadership still appears cautious about renewed strikes. BA has been hinting that if there is more industrial action, the company could have legal grounds to dismiss the strikers – a potentially explosive move.
The union had been due to ask its 11,000 cabin crew members to vote on whether they wanted to accept the proposed deal, but Bassa decided earlier this week it could not support recommending the offer.
Tony Woodley, Unite’s joint general secretary, said any sense that the offer was being presented to cabin crew over the heads of “unwilling representatives” would be damaging to the union.
“Under these circumstances I have suspended the ballot on the offer and will meet with all our cabin crew representatives as a matter of urgency to consider the next steps,” he said.
Unite and BA had reached a tentative agreement on the new offer last month, raising hopes of ending the dispute which has so far caused 22 days of strikes, costing the airline £150m.
It began more than a year ago, initially over cost savings, but became embroiled in rows over disciplinary action and the stripping of travel concessions from strikers.
The offer provided for Acas, the conciliation service, to arbitrate in disciplinary cases arising from the dispute. Discounted tickets for staff would be restored immediately, but free seats staff can get after longer service with the company would not be restored until April 2013.
Bassa objected to clauses in the deal, including one requiring the union to drop all outstanding legal claims arising from the dispute.
The cabin crew branch will now press for another strike ballot, but Unite officials fear there could be legal problems if it went ahead with this without first putting BA’s offer to members.
One option is to put the offer to members without recommendation in a consultative ballot, and if it is rejected then hold a strike ballot.
BA said: “We believe that British Airways cabin crew deserve the opportunity to vote on these proposals, which address all their concerns and represent a fair resolution of this dispute. The way forward is for all sections of Unite to put aside their internal divisions and allow crew to have a direct say on their own future.”
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Thanks for that Chigley.
That actually clears up a few points for me; firstly the one about what BA plan to do next. Hopefully they will sit back and allow Unite to sort out Mr Holley and Mrs Malone and put them out to pasture where they belong.
Bettygirl , you are a shining example of how this dilemma has been no party for any of us that went to work during IA. For me it was certainly not the easy option when I chose not to support the Branch that had told so many lies to me. I guess I was fortunate to have that info before my call to strike occured.
Rosiegirl, if somebody was that stupid that they used their real name on the Bassa forum and then intimidated you then you have a very straightforward avenue of retort - EG901 I think it's called (if they are a BA employee).
Miss M , you are not even getting the democratic right to make that NO vote you so proudly boasted about. You're not the only one they have lied to and I now understand your confusion. I lost my democratic right to vote YES to the deal and I believe we have both been cheated on.
NOW CAN WE ALL JUST GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER AND GET BACK TO WORK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That actually clears up a few points for me; firstly the one about what BA plan to do next. Hopefully they will sit back and allow Unite to sort out Mr Holley and Mrs Malone and put them out to pasture where they belong.
Bettygirl , you are a shining example of how this dilemma has been no party for any of us that went to work during IA. For me it was certainly not the easy option when I chose not to support the Branch that had told so many lies to me. I guess I was fortunate to have that info before my call to strike occured.
Rosiegirl, if somebody was that stupid that they used their real name on the Bassa forum and then intimidated you then you have a very straightforward avenue of retort - EG901 I think it's called (if they are a BA employee).
Miss M , you are not even getting the democratic right to make that NO vote you so proudly boasted about. You're not the only one they have lied to and I now understand your confusion. I lost my democratic right to vote YES to the deal and I believe we have both been cheated on.
NOW CAN WE ALL JUST GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER AND GET BACK TO WORK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Quote of the Day
I submit this one as "Quote of the Day":
More entries needed.......
Guys dont worry. We are not stupid. Bassa is not stupid. They know what they are doing.
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But, unfortunately, BA cannot be seen to discriminate in favour of those who didn't strike.
Bassa would immediately cry foul.
I am very disheartened that PCCC hasn't developed into a credible alternative, or that non-militant crew generally haven't done more to argue against the Bassa diehards.
Nor do these moderate (intelligent and non political) crew seem to speak out against anti management and anti pilot propaganda; or even debate with those crew who remain happily ignorant.
Whilst there may be some crew who genuinely understand the realities , and potential consequences, of continuing to fight this lost cause, the majority rely on
"how they feel".
They don't read the information available to them, they don't try and rationalise the situation , they accept as fact statements that are often outright lies from their union, they are afraid to speak up, they kowtow to whichever crew member has the"loudest" voice and rarely challenge anything they are told.
Why???
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that things are going from bad to worse , and another strike cannot improve the offer on the table.
Bassa would immediately cry foul.
I am very disheartened that PCCC hasn't developed into a credible alternative, or that non-militant crew generally haven't done more to argue against the Bassa diehards.
Nor do these moderate (intelligent and non political) crew seem to speak out against anti management and anti pilot propaganda; or even debate with those crew who remain happily ignorant.
Whilst there may be some crew who genuinely understand the realities , and potential consequences, of continuing to fight this lost cause, the majority rely on
"how they feel".
They don't read the information available to them, they don't try and rationalise the situation , they accept as fact statements that are often outright lies from their union, they are afraid to speak up, they kowtow to whichever crew member has the"loudest" voice and rarely challenge anything they are told.
Why???
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that things are going from bad to worse , and another strike cannot improve the offer on the table.
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BlueUpGood,
You say in your post -
''MF is the standard of uniform, look, service, professionalism and demeanor that BA, our employers, and the business that pays our mortgages, wish to see on board in 2011 and beyond.''
If that is the case why not give all of us that standard!!!
Don't say it is to do with the union because they have never made decisions about our uniform, it has always been decided at board level what uniform we wear.
The stricter standards are fine by me and most other senior crew members.
You say in your post -
''MF is the standard of uniform, look, service, professionalism and demeanor that BA, our employers, and the business that pays our mortgages, wish to see on board in 2011 and beyond.''
If that is the case why not give all of us that standard!!!
Don't say it is to do with the union because they have never made decisions about our uniform, it has always been decided at board level what uniform we wear.
The stricter standards are fine by me and most other senior crew members.
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Latest from DH....
....just when you thought you'd seen it all! DH is holding court on BASSA forum and this is his latest posting (you may want to sit down incase you collapse laughing)
I tell you what this dispute has done, more than anything else and this is more important than anything tangible - it has told BA that they can't bully the membership without strong resistance. It has told BA they can't smash the union without strong resistance. It has told BA they can't just do what they please without strong resistance. This dispute has empowered you the membership to stand up and be heard. It has given you all a common purpose and it has given you pride and faith in the majority of your colleagues. It has proved that the little man in the street can oppose big corporate bullies. It has stopped BA in their tracks and quite possible helped this job from being completely worthless in 10 years time. Are you still on your old terms and conditions and has anyone forced you to new fleet? No they haven't dared. You are still earning the same money and allowances. This dispute is all about having a voice and the power to shape your destiny. I could go on all night but will finish up by saying No, Hatty, you have gained nothing you can touch and you are right those 4 things are a product of this dispute but my God how you have achieved more than you will ever know. Years from now you will fully realise what you have done. Rgds Duncan
I have highlighted the best bit. DH is now taking the credit for our T & C's remaining the same and our pay. If he'd bothered to read any of the comms from BA he would have realised that this is what OUR employer was proposing all along before he took himself and his deluded followers on this path of self destruction. Priceless!
I tell you what this dispute has done, more than anything else and this is more important than anything tangible - it has told BA that they can't bully the membership without strong resistance. It has told BA they can't smash the union without strong resistance. It has told BA they can't just do what they please without strong resistance. This dispute has empowered you the membership to stand up and be heard. It has given you all a common purpose and it has given you pride and faith in the majority of your colleagues. It has proved that the little man in the street can oppose big corporate bullies. It has stopped BA in their tracks and quite possible helped this job from being completely worthless in 10 years time. Are you still on your old terms and conditions and has anyone forced you to new fleet? No they haven't dared. You are still earning the same money and allowances. This dispute is all about having a voice and the power to shape your destiny. I could go on all night but will finish up by saying No, Hatty, you have gained nothing you can touch and you are right those 4 things are a product of this dispute but my God how you have achieved more than you will ever know. Years from now you will fully realise what you have done. Rgds Duncan
I have highlighted the best bit. DH is now taking the credit for our T & C's remaining the same and our pay. If he'd bothered to read any of the comms from BA he would have realised that this is what OUR employer was proposing all along before he took himself and his deluded followers on this path of self destruction. Priceless!
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Well, in fact, my earnings this year are NOT the same... Due to loosing many days flying allowances due to Industrial Action... But hey ho, if I had gone on strike, I could have claimed my strike pay... I am sure that would have made up for it... 
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Can someone, somewhere please tell us just exactly HOW you expect us to "sort them out"?
BASSA had about 9000 members at the last count, if crew left in droves then they would be forced to change attitude before they ran the risk of being de-recognised.
Crew should be "sending a message" to BASSA not BA.
Until crew resign then nothing will change, BASSA/UNITE will continue to run this dispute on everyone's behalf, if they run it badly then crew as a group will look bad and anti BA.
I know we have many, many excellent crew, what I don't understand is why so many feel that this is BA's fault and not BASSA's.
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From DH
This dispute is all about having a voice and the power to shape your destiny
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Thanks Chigley,
That is just priceless. He is taking credit for us having our terms and conditions in tact when they were never being removed in the first place.
The man is deluded, living in another world to us all.
He and the other reps have caused us, those that worked and those that didn't, a year of hell for absolutely no good reason.
Thanks for that Duncan.
That is just priceless. He is taking credit for us having our terms and conditions in tact when they were never being removed in the first place.
The man is deluded, living in another world to us all.
He and the other reps have caused us, those that worked and those that didn't, a year of hell for absolutely no good reason.
Thanks for that Duncan.
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A solution?
What if every crew union member wrote to their branch head, copying in Tony Woodley and Willie Walsh, stating whether they are (or not) prepared to accept the deal? Would both BA and Unite have a clear way forward out of this sorry mess
Blue up good said
Betty girl - This is the current standard. Not just for MF! and looking around the CRC and on board, the current fleets simply are not showing it
Blue up good said
''MF is the standard of uniform, look, service, professionalism and demeanor that BA, our employers, and the business that pays our mortgages, wish to see on board in 2011 and beyond
