BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

[Crash_and_Burn]

Full staff travel returned on the 1st April 2013. So it's taking 1,549,440 minutes for it to be retuned, only 309,888 times longer than BASSA said it would...


It'll be interesting to see what spin BASSA put on this one, having read the proposal, I can't see any how they could claim any form of victory, but then I live on this planet!! I'm sure they will come up with something.

CB

[keel beam]

There could still be a final twist to this dispute.

If we say there are 9500 BASSA crew, say 5 to 6000 went on strike, however a large number of that 5-6000 may accept the latest offer + the 3500 to 4500 that didn't strike. So on that basis the dispute will be over.

The twist? Well those 3500-4500 BASSA crew that went in have been so pd off with antics of the strikers that they will vote for a strike (but still go into work if a strike is called). Now on this basis WW will have no option but to place the "strikers" on 90 day notice. A result, the pd off CC get rid of the thorn in their sides, WW gets rid of the troublemakers. Everyone then gets on with their job in a happier atmosphere.

Fantasy land? May be but if this were a novel it would be a twist in the story that nobody expected!

NOTE: This is pure speculation, but in view of the different camps being poles apart it is something cannot be dismissed out of hand.

[123breath]

Keel beam

A nice twist, and you're right in that it would be a fascinating turn of events.

BUT,

Voters would be foolish to play games with their vote. Each vote is sacred, and should be treated with the respect it deserves. Each vote should reflect what the voter feels is the right way forward, having reflected on all the information available.

This whole sorry saga has been prolonged by people voting one way and going another. Those who backed both BA (by not striking) and BASSA (by voting for strike action) have a lot to answer for.

Stop playing games, and vote for what is right for you. Betty Girl's last post is worth serious consideration, in my opinion.

If this offer is rejected, Willie Walsh just might issue the 90 day notice to all current crew.

If that's a risk you're willing to take, then fine, vote to reject this peace offering. I hope you know what you're doing though, and have made an informed decision. Many of you have said you're in a fight for your job.....well you appear to have won if you accept the offer. If you vote to reject it, the fight goes on, and you will be seriously weakened in the face of a very angry opponent, who holds all the weapons. It will be a hopeless cause. And no, another strike will not be effective.

.....again, don't play games with your vote.

[Granary]

This seems to be the beginning of the end. It is most certainly not a time to treat this offer as anything other than the way forward. BASSA have tried controlling BA and they must know those days are now well and truly over. It is time to accept this offer, some won't of course, but I believe the majority will. I genuinely believe the offer is made in good faith and should be considered likewise.

[Chigley]

Keel Beam

Interesting scenario and would definately be a a strange twist in this whole sorry mess. However, I think it is more likely that these 4,000 union members that did in fact cross the picket line simply won't bother to vote at all as was the case in the last consultative ballot. Most members that stayed in the union to vote 'no' before regretted staying in because they were unable to accept the proposal back in June.

Some have since left the union to accept the next offer should it become available, others have stayed in to cast their 'no' vote again. But I dare say the vast majority who stayed in the union simply will not bother as they have simply not bothered to leave the union. It's not a case of 'having your cake and eat it too....' by staying in, it's merely some people are still very apathetic about the whole situation despite the severity of it.

[Meal Chucker]

MissM, UDP etc.

MissM, UDP etc

General Sec Tony Woodley and Len McCluskey have both stated categorically that this latest offer is the best that can be achieved, even if further strikes go ahead.

Please tell me what you hope to achieve with further fruitless strike action.

[keel beam]

Chigley

Assuming that those 3-4000 BASSA CC do not vote, it would then give a very close result that could go either way.

If, as Miss M states, that this offer is totally unacceptable to the BASSAnistas then there is the option for them to leave the airline and find another job with their requirements. (and we all know the answer to that!)

[Juan Tugoh]

If, as Miss M states, that this offer is totally unacceptable to the BASSAnistas then there is the option for them to leave the airline and find another job with their requirements

The problem for the majority of the hardcore is that they have no viable alternative form of employment. Certainly there is no form of employment available to the majority that will be pay as much with as much time off and other favourable T&Cs as they have at BA. Despite the protestations of being highly qualified etc, the majority of CC have been in BA for a long time and their alternative skill sets are out of date.

This leads the reasoning behind the "I will strike until I get what I want or BA goes bust" mentality. It is for many their only option - if they see a major reduction in their T&Cs they may as well risk the bankruptcy and dissolution of BA, as the option of leaving would lead to a major reduction in their T&Cs. The end result for them is the same - hence the vehemence of their rhetoric.

[123breath]

Joan Tugoh

[QUOTE]This leads the reasoning behind the "I will strike until I get what I want or BA goes bust" mentality. It is for many their only option - if they see a major reduction in their T&Cs they may as well risk the bankruptcy and dissolution of BA, as the option of leaving would lead to a major reduction in their T&Cs. The end result for them is the same - hence the vehemence of their rhetoric./QUOTE]

There is another option......accept the deal. T&C's intact, job safe, pay rise, guaranteed monthly earnings, staff travel etc.

I'm starting to wonder whether it might be better if they did reject the deal so that Willie Walsh can get rid of them for once and for all, either by sacking due future strikes, or 90 days notice. The big problem with the second of those 2 options is that a lot of good people (BA backers) would probably lose their T&C's as well

[Juan Tugoh]

123 Broth

That, of course, is the other option. I think the problem for many is that too accept this option would be to accept defeat and this would mean the acceptance that BA run the company and not BASSA. This loss of prestige whereby the entitled few dictate to the company is unacceptable to them and hence they feel that they have nothing to lose.

[TorC]

90 Days

While we obviously have to wait for the ballot to run before the 90 days becomes a real possibility, if it did, could BA not do it on the basis of offering the same deal as is about to be voted on?

If that were possible, nobody gets stung any further except those who absolutely, totally reject the offer by not signing and thereby being deemed to have resigned.

[Colonel White]

Juan
Agree with your synopsis. What these same crew fail to recognise is the fact that a defunct BA means no pension worth talking about. Given the amount they may have sunk in contributions and what they may anticipate receiving in retirement this does seem a tad short sighted . Time will tell.

[123breath]

TorC

Good Point.

That would be fairer to the 'BA backers' who've stuck their necks out, and would get around the union recognition laws (I think).

To do otherwise would risk causing even worse industrial relations with all the current crew, not just the militants.

[Juan Tugoh]

There is a strange belief in BA that if it were to go bust, then the next day BA2 would start up with everyone on the same T&Cs and pay etc in the same job. This allows the "I'd rather BA went bust than give an inch" brigade to feel confident in their stand.

[upperdeckpsr]

123Breath

Well, surprise! It's on the table, wrapped up in a package containing a lot of amazing goodies. I think that you can subtract at least 3 militant votes from whatever support you think you have.

You and your remaining comrades really do need to wake of and 'smell the coffee'.

Why are you attacking me personally? I have not said that I would reject the offer at all? Why have you singled me out?

[123breath]

Upperdeckpsr

My post was aimed at "You and your remaining comrades".

It was addressed to you as it was you who was most vocal in the discussion about BASSA membership numbers, but please don't take it personally.

[Hampshire Hostie]

Latest offer

'PLEASE PLEASE look at the big picture and realise that Staff Travel cannot be fully returned now because it would make Willie Walsh look like an idiot but will be in the future.
Please vote to accept this for all our sakes because if you cause BA to loose more money he will just come back with a worse offer!!!!!!!!!!!'

Yes, Betty Girl, I agree to a certain extent. Much as I want this dispute to be over, I have reservations about issue of suspended and sacked colleagues as feel they should still have union support. The way I read it BA could still refuse to re-instate even if ACAS find in individual's favour.

Also I'm reluctant to accept yet due to wanting to hear recent court case ruling on what is contractual and what is not. Many good crew have been hurt in this so would be good to have legal ruling. Is this timing just coincidence?

I certainly hope no more strikes though!

[Yellow Pen]

It doesn't really matter whether he's wrong or not. The fact is less than 5000 crew out of around 13,300 went on strike and thats not enough to force BAs hand. Woodley went to BA with the begging bowl and if you don't like what you've been given then I'm afraid thats tough luck as you've no means to force BA to improve it. Why do you think Unite said this is the best deal they can get? Expedience? Or realism?

The 'hostages' won't be coming back because they haven't been sacked for striking. They've been sacked for misconduct. That sort of behaviour isn't tolerated outside an industrial dispute so why should it be tolerated during one?

[essessdeedee]

All those backing BA (including those crossing the picket line but mostly our VCC who usually have this period off) should be prepared for working this Christmas in case we go on strike

I think that you wil find that we are more prepared than you think

[upperdeckpsr]

Yellow Pen

The fact is less than 5000 crew out of around 13,300 went on striek and thats not enough to force BAs hand.

And that was my point - that as it is only BASSA members who are being given a vote, and the majority of BASSA members went on strike, does it not follow that the strikers are in the majority and therefore they will vote accordingly. Either way I don't think that another no vote nor any subsequent action would force BA's hand - I also think that if another strike took place then ST would never be returned unless directed by a court of law as being illegal on the part of BA.

The other problem of course being the apathetic members who choose not to vote at all and who could therefore give former strikers a bigger majority.