BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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HiFlyer, I think both you and the PCCC can walk away with your heads held high. I think the "losers" tag is just a reflection that many of us would have liked to have seen the CC represented by a modern, forward thinking professional organisation - ie the PCCC. That negotiating rights remain with Unite/BASSA/CC89 all be it in a new form, is a little disappointing.
BettyG, you were right to be optimistic in your recent PM - thankfully sanity is returning. Here's looking forward to a strong BA. We (BALPA) have been having high level discussions with several of the big hitters in IFCE/Product/Branding, and it seems we are going in the right direction.
BettyG, you were right to be optimistic in your recent PM - thankfully sanity is returning. Here's looking forward to a strong BA. We (BALPA) have been having high level discussions with several of the big hitters in IFCE/Product/Branding, and it seems we are going in the right direction.
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P-T Gamekeeper.
Yes I am also glad my predictions were right.
I am very happy, although I am still a bit apprehensive about the future.
I am also involved with meeting up with BA management to discuss product issues and I am optimistic that BA will put the customer back at the centre of its plans, now that the head of our department is so customer focused.
Yes I am also glad my predictions were right.
I am very happy, although I am still a bit apprehensive about the future.
I am also involved with meeting up with BA management to discuss product issues and I am optimistic that BA will put the customer back at the centre of its plans, now that the head of our department is so customer focused.
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Bettygirl said :
I am very happy, although I am still a bit apprehensive about the future.
Firstly sorry but my Internet is down so having to resort to the phone!!
Yes I'm happy too it seems it's finally over and as far as I'm concerned Bassa have achieved zero in the big scheme of life. The best bit of the agreement I read was that the reps wouldn't in the future be able to ' manipulate' their working lives/rosters as before. I'm assuming there will be a big reduction in their numbers as Bassa/ unite won't be involved in the far end of a fart that they were before. Personally for me this was the opportunity for BA to finally finish Bassa off. That's not happened and for me that's a possible accident waiting to happen. The reps will by default see this as a big ' way back in' and BA will have to ensure with great resolve in the upcoming months that they are kept in line. If not it's back down the old slippery path once again.
I for one will NEVER EVER AGAIN give Bassa one breath from my body or one penny from my pocket. They are rotten to the core. What concerns me is that although DH and Lalalady will now probably go, they will ensure they put on place people who will follow the 'Bassa mantra' into the future.
I still believe there might be a place for PCCC in the future. Let's be honest here. There are upwards of 4000+ crew who are without any union backing and another 4000 who are still in unite yet seemingly ' unhappy' as they voted no or didn't bother. I understand more than most why the PCCC didn't come out. As someone who has been on the receiving end of bassa's physical thuggery, I know why it's easier said than done to do what some here see as possible weakness. I cannot say fully what I'd love to say here, but I have real reservations about how this is all going to pan out. My 'sad' guess is that within 18 months we will have further problems. Bassa are still here to fight another day, and I know from the past that as leapards don't change their spots, then neither will Bassa really change for the better. BA have got to keep a real handle on this or believe me their will be trouble.
Finally the other problem in all of this is that many sadly in the Bassa camp 'see' this as a victory. They are already crowing on this other sites about the fact that had the ' scabs' joined them in their fight, this would have all ended months ago. We , the non strikers, will always be seem as the enemy, as though KW may see this as ' peace in our time' he doesn't have to work on a daily basis in this atmosphere like we do.
I really want to think positively here but I know Bassa from old and therefore don't trust them an inch now or in the future
I am very happy, although I am still a bit apprehensive about the future.
Firstly sorry but my Internet is down so having to resort to the phone!!
Yes I'm happy too it seems it's finally over and as far as I'm concerned Bassa have achieved zero in the big scheme of life. The best bit of the agreement I read was that the reps wouldn't in the future be able to ' manipulate' their working lives/rosters as before. I'm assuming there will be a big reduction in their numbers as Bassa/ unite won't be involved in the far end of a fart that they were before. Personally for me this was the opportunity for BA to finally finish Bassa off. That's not happened and for me that's a possible accident waiting to happen. The reps will by default see this as a big ' way back in' and BA will have to ensure with great resolve in the upcoming months that they are kept in line. If not it's back down the old slippery path once again.
I for one will NEVER EVER AGAIN give Bassa one breath from my body or one penny from my pocket. They are rotten to the core. What concerns me is that although DH and Lalalady will now probably go, they will ensure they put on place people who will follow the 'Bassa mantra' into the future.
I still believe there might be a place for PCCC in the future. Let's be honest here. There are upwards of 4000+ crew who are without any union backing and another 4000 who are still in unite yet seemingly ' unhappy' as they voted no or didn't bother. I understand more than most why the PCCC didn't come out. As someone who has been on the receiving end of bassa's physical thuggery, I know why it's easier said than done to do what some here see as possible weakness. I cannot say fully what I'd love to say here, but I have real reservations about how this is all going to pan out. My 'sad' guess is that within 18 months we will have further problems. Bassa are still here to fight another day, and I know from the past that as leapards don't change their spots, then neither will Bassa really change for the better. BA have got to keep a real handle on this or believe me their will be trouble.
Finally the other problem in all of this is that many sadly in the Bassa camp 'see' this as a victory. They are already crowing on this other sites about the fact that had the ' scabs' joined them in their fight, this would have all ended months ago. We , the non strikers, will always be seem as the enemy, as though KW may see this as ' peace in our time' he doesn't have to work on a daily basis in this atmosphere like we do.
I really want to think positively here but I know Bassa from old and therefore don't trust them an inch now or in the future
Last edited by JUAN TRIPP; 13th May 2011 at 07:23.
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Duncan's view of the deal.
Originally posted by Duncan Holley
What have you got?
A permanent contractual top up payment if you are out of pocket through routes going to mixed fleet - plus a review of fairness of distribution.
Staff travel back in it's entirety. (Remember that was only happening over WW's dead body).
No more VCCs
Independant binding arbitration for all discips and sackings
Your union back as before with reps in offices etc
a pay deal the same as the pilots
no new redeployment agreement
A guarantee that your agreements will be honoured as long as you remain employed at LHR as cabin crew.
Transfer rights and part-time tights restored on a vacancy led sytem
In house promotion will continue
There is probably more but I am still trying to calm down after coming in from a fantastic meeting and reading your post, but I will say this to you this my friend -
What you really have got out of this dispute is something that is not tangible, nor will it be of much financial benefit. It is something that money cannot buy - it is called dignity pride and respect and that means because of the stand you took, BA will now be treating you like human beings - you have earned the admiration of the trade union world and even the media who today were full of praise for what we have all done. And finally you will have learnt the value of unity, comradeship and togetherness that can only be achieved by standing up side by side to be counted in extreme adversity.
I have lost a lot of things during this dispute but i am so proud not only of myself but so proud in those of you who had the guts, the courage and the loyalty to back me, back BASSA and most importantly back yourself. I would do it all again, I suspect even with hindsight so would most of you.
Very sad that he cannot see that all this, in fact better than this could have been achieved without his useless and damaging strike. Very sad.
Although I am very happy that this is all over, I am still very upset at the damage caused by Bassa and by WW.
Had Bassa negotiated in the beginning none of this needed to happen. If they accepted the crew compliment changes that seem to be ok to them now! and formed a huge part of the savings BA wanted us crew to make back then, M/F may have been avoided and new entrants may have been able to join our fleets with a little bit of change on our parts.
Had WW not been so keen to punish strikers by NOT returning their staff travel and not understanding how unfair some of the dismissals were seen, this deal would have been accepted months and months ago because it is very similar to what I have already signed!
So pleased that KW has taken over and although the outcome is just what he and WW have both been wanting, it has been handled in a far more superior way.
Originally posted by Duncan Holley
What have you got?
A permanent contractual top up payment if you are out of pocket through routes going to mixed fleet - plus a review of fairness of distribution.
Staff travel back in it's entirety. (Remember that was only happening over WW's dead body).
No more VCCs
Independant binding arbitration for all discips and sackings
Your union back as before with reps in offices etc
a pay deal the same as the pilots
no new redeployment agreement
A guarantee that your agreements will be honoured as long as you remain employed at LHR as cabin crew.
Transfer rights and part-time tights restored on a vacancy led sytem
In house promotion will continue
There is probably more but I am still trying to calm down after coming in from a fantastic meeting and reading your post, but I will say this to you this my friend -
What you really have got out of this dispute is something that is not tangible, nor will it be of much financial benefit. It is something that money cannot buy - it is called dignity pride and respect and that means because of the stand you took, BA will now be treating you like human beings - you have earned the admiration of the trade union world and even the media who today were full of praise for what we have all done. And finally you will have learnt the value of unity, comradeship and togetherness that can only be achieved by standing up side by side to be counted in extreme adversity.
I have lost a lot of things during this dispute but i am so proud not only of myself but so proud in those of you who had the guts, the courage and the loyalty to back me, back BASSA and most importantly back yourself. I would do it all again, I suspect even with hindsight so would most of you.
Very sad that he cannot see that all this, in fact better than this could have been achieved without his useless and damaging strike. Very sad.
Although I am very happy that this is all over, I am still very upset at the damage caused by Bassa and by WW.
Had Bassa negotiated in the beginning none of this needed to happen. If they accepted the crew compliment changes that seem to be ok to them now! and formed a huge part of the savings BA wanted us crew to make back then, M/F may have been avoided and new entrants may have been able to join our fleets with a little bit of change on our parts.
Had WW not been so keen to punish strikers by NOT returning their staff travel and not understanding how unfair some of the dismissals were seen, this deal would have been accepted months and months ago because it is very similar to what I have already signed!
So pleased that KW has taken over and although the outcome is just what he and WW have both been wanting, it has been handled in a far more superior way.
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Hi Betty Girl,
I agree, though I would say that the deal we signed is, rather than "similar to", VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL to the settlement deal.
The only difference I can see is the Guaranteed Top Up being "contractual", but that would only be important to those people that honestly believed that BA was going to default on the agreement. I don't - the wording in what we've signed is sufficient, in my opinion.
As for Duncans spin on the deal.......unbelieveable!! It's even blatently, factually wrong....
"Binding arbetration of ALL sackings...." Errr, I don't think so...
"No more VCCs.." In name only, maybe!
"Your reps back in the office, as before." Well, back in the office, maybe, but as before....not really, is it Duncan.
I agree, though I would say that the deal we signed is, rather than "similar to", VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL to the settlement deal.
The only difference I can see is the Guaranteed Top Up being "contractual", but that would only be important to those people that honestly believed that BA was going to default on the agreement. I don't - the wording in what we've signed is sufficient, in my opinion.
As for Duncans spin on the deal.......unbelieveable!! It's even blatently, factually wrong....
"Binding arbetration of ALL sackings...." Errr, I don't think so...
"No more VCCs.." In name only, maybe!
"Your reps back in the office, as before." Well, back in the office, maybe, but as before....not really, is it Duncan.
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If this gets voted through by some margin by the same members who recently voted for strikes ,it will be a sure sign that they just do what the union tell them to do. I'm not certain that that is a good portent "going foreward"
We all want to be guided by the union ,but I think BA actually have too much of what they wanted out of this ,i wonder what was said in negotiations . The mixed fleet conditions are not good enough and are now the benchmark for BA.Talk of winners and losers is just a distraction and unhelpful,imho.
We all want to be guided by the union ,but I think BA actually have too much of what they wanted out of this ,i wonder what was said in negotiations . The mixed fleet conditions are not good enough and are now the benchmark for BA.Talk of winners and losers is just a distraction and unhelpful,imho.
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doishquattroserche,
I think you yourself are cabin crew, so does that mean that you are not going to vote YES.
I can see very well why you are upset with the Union because basically they have accepted all the things that BA offered last year and taken you all out on strike over basically nothing!
How do you square yourself with DH's post. He seems to be putting a good spin on it all and telling you all it is good.
I think most crew are just fed up with all of this and now that staff travel is to be returned in full, I think enough will vote YES just to end all of this nastiness that both WW and Bassa have subjected us all to. Well I really hope so because I don't think Unite will stand behind you all if you reject it!
I think you yourself are cabin crew, so does that mean that you are not going to vote YES.
I can see very well why you are upset with the Union because basically they have accepted all the things that BA offered last year and taken you all out on strike over basically nothing!
How do you square yourself with DH's post. He seems to be putting a good spin on it all and telling you all it is good.
I think most crew are just fed up with all of this and now that staff travel is to be returned in full, I think enough will vote YES just to end all of this nastiness that both WW and Bassa have subjected us all to. Well I really hope so because I don't think Unite will stand behind you all if you reject it!
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Bassa still there?
If you read the union facilities element of the agreement, there is no mention of Bassa or Amicus - it simply says 'A single cabin crew Unite Branch at Heathrow' - does this mean no more Bassa?
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betty girl ,that would be a yes for the reasons you state! All marched up to the hill ,for what?
Running in parallel with this has been a mate's divorce. A lot of similarities ,quite a few negatives , a bit of a hollow feeling when it's over. Certainly no time for any claims of victory .
Running in parallel with this has been a mate's divorce. A lot of similarities ,quite a few negatives , a bit of a hollow feeling when it's over. Certainly no time for any claims of victory .
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The way Duncan is spinning the deal means he is out to gain something personally, or, more likely, he simply can't help himself.
If only SOME crew could take it upon themselves to get the facts, and then interpret them logically, they wouldn't be in this mess.
Big Len has made acceptance obligatory by his clear support of the deal.
Which speaks volumes in itself. He has allowed Bassa / CC89 no room for wriggle.
Most crew will be happy to see the back of the dispute. The militants will see it as some sort of victory; and will always blame the pilots for whatever is wrong with their lives.
Crew now need to reorganise their representation. The finances, the voting, the transparency of their democracy and - most importantly - the unions relationship with BA. They must develop an attitude of cooperation and not continue to throw the toys out at the first sign of disagreement.
Clearly BA has achieved everything they originally wanted and much more.
Plus they have kept public opinion on their side throughout. They have outmanouvered the crew comprehensively; so much that all the other staff groups are wondering how they will ever manage in a dispute.
If only SOME crew could take it upon themselves to get the facts, and then interpret them logically, they wouldn't be in this mess.
Big Len has made acceptance obligatory by his clear support of the deal.
Which speaks volumes in itself. He has allowed Bassa / CC89 no room for wriggle.
Most crew will be happy to see the back of the dispute. The militants will see it as some sort of victory; and will always blame the pilots for whatever is wrong with their lives.
Crew now need to reorganise their representation. The finances, the voting, the transparency of their democracy and - most importantly - the unions relationship with BA. They must develop an attitude of cooperation and not continue to throw the toys out at the first sign of disagreement.
Clearly BA has achieved everything they originally wanted and much more.
Plus they have kept public opinion on their side throughout. They have outmanouvered the crew comprehensively; so much that all the other staff groups are wondering how they will ever manage in a dispute.
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Thanks, that is what I think a lot of crew will do.
I don't blame you for feeling a bit let down.
I expect you feel let down by people like me, by BA and by Bassa. In time I think you will see that most of this is the fault of two megalomaniacs on power trips and they are DH and WW.
DH is such a fantasist that he is seeing this as a victory but that is because he knows that he would now no longer be able to get the supports for his totally wasteful strikes and so he has to spin it as a win.
Anyway, I hope time will heal us all and I hope BA are honorable and keep their promises to be fair to all fleets.
I don't blame you for feeling a bit let down.
I expect you feel let down by people like me, by BA and by Bassa. In time I think you will see that most of this is the fault of two megalomaniacs on power trips and they are DH and WW.
DH is such a fantasist that he is seeing this as a victory but that is because he knows that he would now no longer be able to get the supports for his totally wasteful strikes and so he has to spin it as a win.
Anyway, I hope time will heal us all and I hope BA are honorable and keep their promises to be fair to all fleets.
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Well done Duncan,Keith,Nigel,Chris,Len Lizanne and all the reps. I would also like to thank the outside person who helped broker this deal a big task well executed hat's off to everyone involved oh except that little bloke from before. Time to move on and enjoy our staff travel, pay deal etc etc.
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Thats the same staff travel and pay deal the non-strikers had months ago then.
(PS You gots ta change the way you behave before Keith Williams will recommend staff travel gets returned. Duncan may have told you it's back straight away but that's not what the agreement says!)
(PS You gots ta change the way you behave before Keith Williams will recommend staff travel gets returned. Duncan may have told you it's back straight away but that's not what the agreement says!)