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BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

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BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

Old 6th Mar 2011, 20:50
  #3361 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Crew on Mixed Fleet are getting a 747 license. Why? I was under the impression they would be operating only on A320 and 777. There's another sign that management really can't be trusted.
And Unite agreed to put the last of BA's offers to the members, then didn't - yet another sign why Bassa/Unite shouldn't be trusted either.
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Old 6th Mar 2011, 20:50
  #3362 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
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TW

Alas, I think you are correct. However, I still think it is important that we do our best to engage with each other and conduct discussions on an adult-to-adult basis.

The adult-to-adult part appears to be the most difficult bit for too many bassamentals!!
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Old 6th Mar 2011, 21:31
  #3363 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St. John's Wood
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Are you saying that BA would sack thousands of cabin crew if we go on strike again? I doubt it very much as they wouldn't be able to run a full operation for months if they did.
BA won't have to "sack thousands of cabin crew" - just those that strike on day one. That will get other potential strikers attention very quickly! How many strikers do you think there will be on day two ..... if there is a day two?
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Old 6th Mar 2011, 21:52
  #3364 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Miss M and anyone else who is contemplating striking and believes that BA won't sack those who walkout on strike (assuming there is a mandate for strike action). Have you looked at the number of temps out there who are looking for work ? How many are in the hold pool at present ? How long would it take for BA to pull in a few hundred to replace those sacked on day one of any industrial action ? Don't forget that the company has a cushion of VCC who will cover until the first batch of temps could come online. Oh and how many other lambs do you think will cheerfully follow once they see the first batch get their P45s ? Time to put the thinking head on.
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Old 6th Mar 2011, 21:54
  #3365 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
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Abbey Road

How do you sack somebody today?
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Old 6th Mar 2011, 23:25
  #3366 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
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Come on Litebulbs!!

Someone taking stike action is in breach of their conditions of employment and puts themselves in line to be sacked. As I believe you have mentioned many times, any such action would be found to be unfair dismissal if it has taken place during PROTECTED strike action.

I believe that the strike ballot, and various statements from bassa and Untie have inorexibly linked this ballot to all the other ballots before. If that is the case ANY strike action taken by bassa members will be unprotected. It will not be deemed to be unfair dismissal - so THAT is how you could sack someone today!
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Old 6th Mar 2011, 23:38
  #3367 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Sporran

How do you sack someone? How do you sack someone on day one of a dispute? It is not the apprentice, you have to follow a procedure. How do you sack someone who is not at work? Do you have to follow a procedure?

Come on Sporran
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Old 7th Mar 2011, 00:22
  #3368 (permalink)  
 
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How do you sack someone who is not at work?
In these circumstances, where BA has had to put up with this behaviour for such a long time, I suspect that those that don't show up on day-one of the strike will be contacted by phone to see why there has been a no-show. If they don't reply, perhaps a courier-delivered letter stating that the lack of contact (either employee-to-BA, or BA-to-employee) leads BA to think that a breach of contract has taken place and said employee has entered the process for dismissal.

Claims of illness will be looked at very closely, I'm sure, but those with a 'history' will be walking on thin ice. Won't take long for word to get around, but by then 'martyrdom' will have claimed a few, who will be giving marching orders. Cue the usual hand-wringing from BASSA and claims of bullying and the like. By then it is too late - BASSA and Unite will have well and truly used up their pathetic 'arsenal'.

But this assumes BASSA and Unite have the guts to step up to the plate. I don't think BASSA and Unite will, because they know they have screwed up royally, and day-one strikers will be in line for firing! Will it get as far as a strike? I don't think so, regardless of whatever showpiece ballot they care to run. They don't have the spine to do it.
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Old 7th Mar 2011, 00:30
  #3369 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
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So not sacked on day 1 then?
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Old 7th Mar 2011, 01:44
  #3370 (permalink)  
 
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Why should Unite not be trusted over the ballot for an agreement issue?

Walsh wrote that it was a precondition that both branches must endorse the agreement or else he would not recognise the ballot.

First Amicus leaders read parts which they believed undermined the process of unions and individuals rights and therefore felt they could not endorse the agreement.

Bassa then followed and likewise felt unable to endorse the agreement. As a Bassa member I recall they were happy for the ballot to go ahead, or so they wrote, but the leadership would not be endorsing a yes vote.

Thus Walsh's precondition was not met.

With consideration Unite did not waste the time or money on a ballot, which in my opinion would have been rejected with the same fury that industrial action has been voted for. And I write this as a moderate.
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Old 7th Mar 2011, 07:16
  #3371 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
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Sporran

any such action would be found to be unfair dismissal if it has taken place during PROTECTED strike action
This is not the case. Taking strike action outside a protected period does not mean that any dismissal made will automatically be unfair. What the legislation does allow for is that any subsequent ET will not automatically rule that the dismissal was unfair. If, as Litebulbs is suggesting (at least I think this is what he is getting at - LB forgive me if I have misinterpreted) is that the company would still have to follow a disciplinary procedure before a sacking takes place. Without looking at BA procedures I suspect there would first have to be period of suspension while the case was examined ( I have no idea whether BA's procedures allow for this suspension to be without pay).

For these and many other reasons I do not believe that sackings will occur. I do believe that BA will go after UNITE for costs. If BA really want to deal with BASSA then the suggestion above of an SOSR settlement with the new contract being the last offer made,the one that BASSA would not allow their members to vote on, would be far more likely. BA have certainly done enough for a court to accept an SOSR settlement as reasonable (reasonable in law that is). It would also allow the genuine believers on the BASSA side a chance to stand by their principles and refuse to sign the new contract - BA needs to sack no-one.
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Old 7th Mar 2011, 07:43
  #3372 (permalink)  
 
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Juan

Agreed with all apart from me splitting hairs about an SOSR still being a sacking, although potentially reengaged. A bit like the big discussion last year about VR still being a dismissal.
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Old 7th Mar 2011, 08:01
  #3373 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
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If BA were to offer a take or leave it deal - here's a new contact sign or at the end of 90 days you will be out of a job - then the individuals concerned will be under a lot of pressure to sign. It gets worse as someone that resigns from BA loses their ST entitlement unlike someone that takes redundancy. (I think they get their entitlement back at retirement age 65 but that can be along way off and during the years when you may want/need to have ST).

Of course there would have to be a period of time to allow people to sign. This would allow UNITE time to attempt to gain an injunction preventing the SOSR action subject to a full court hearing. In the best case SOSR would take approx 110 days from announcement to people leaving the payroll. They could effectively leave the company sooner as their airside passes could be revoked immediately and they can be sent home and given 90 days pay in lieu of notice. Whatever the case, this is not an instant thing, in law nothing really moves quickly.
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Old 7th Mar 2011, 08:12
  #3374 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
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I was talking on the other thread about a lock out. One of the two times I was on strike (both at BA) we were not allowed back in until we signed in and effectively accepted the new terms we were in dispute over, which was a heart overruling head moment and being worse off after the hissy fit.
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Old 7th Mar 2011, 08:30
  #3375 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Northants
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MissM,

getting a 747 license
You do not have a "license". You are trained and authorised to operate on a certain type or types. That is all. The concept of a "license" has been introduced as part of the "bigging up" process.
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Old 7th Mar 2011, 08:40
  #3376 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
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Cabin crew will use the term "licenced" and "Flight Deck", pilots tend to dislike these phrases, probably in the same way that crew dislike the terms "legacy crew" or "heritage crew" and are now trying to introduce this "first crew" phrase. Ranting about them will not change anything, these phrases will continue to be used especially when it is realised that some people get irritated by them.

The term that is probably most apt for this situation is qualified, as in "Cabin crew are qualified to fly on three different aircraft types". However, knowing that will change nothing.
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Old 7th Mar 2011, 08:56
  #3377 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
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Couldn't resist posting this from New Scientist jobs, hope you don't mind Mods:
Tomato Breeder (Vegetables Division) (00284) -... Tomato Breeder (Vegetables Division) (00284) -... ...
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Old 7th Mar 2011, 10:49
  #3378 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Cabin crew will use the term "licenced" and "Flight Deck", pilots tend to dislike these phrases, probably in the same way that crew dislike the terms "legacy crew" or "heritage crew" and are now trying to introduce this "first crew" phrase.
In January there were "Jurassic crew" referring to New Fleet as "Cheap Fleet". Accurate in terms of overall costs, perhaps ....
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Old 7th Mar 2011, 10:56
  #3379 (permalink)  
 
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"Cheap Fleet"
Maybe it was 'Cheep' fleet as they are always 'chirpy'?





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I'll get my coat!
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Old 7th Mar 2011, 11:57
  #3380 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Canterbury
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You do not have a "license". You are trained and authorised to operate on a certain type or types. That is all. The concept of a "license" has been introduced as part of the "bigging up" process.
Thanks but I will, as the majority, continue to use the term "license".
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