BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Well Snas I have to agree with Tomkins that all crew would be out if Mixed Fleet terms were forced on us but as I have explained, this cannot happen and BA has gone to great lengths to assure crew of this.
The worst that could happen is that they force the agreement that some of us have already signed but in the 'union version', of course, it dose have some clauses re Legal action and a new working relationship with Unite, which is the real reason that Lalalady wants the vote to go her way.
The big problem is that most crew believe that it will be fine initially but the fear among the majority of crew is what will happen in the future when Mixed Fleet has grown and some worry that it will not be done fairly.
Bassa has scaremongered many to believe Mixed Fleet will grow rapidly and it is growing fast at the moment, helped by part-time contracts and route expansion, but it will slow down after the initial burst and grow as we leave or retire but most crew that I speak to don't see it that way. They really worry that it will get bigger faster and that they will be forced onto it and that is because Bassa have created a unfounded mistrust among crew and unfortunately Willie Walsh has not made matters easier with his style of management.
The worst that could happen is that they force the agreement that some of us have already signed but in the 'union version', of course, it dose have some clauses re Legal action and a new working relationship with Unite, which is the real reason that Lalalady wants the vote to go her way.
The big problem is that most crew believe that it will be fine initially but the fear among the majority of crew is what will happen in the future when Mixed Fleet has grown and some worry that it will not be done fairly.
Bassa has scaremongered many to believe Mixed Fleet will grow rapidly and it is growing fast at the moment, helped by part-time contracts and route expansion, but it will slow down after the initial burst and grow as we leave or retire but most crew that I speak to don't see it that way. They really worry that it will get bigger faster and that they will be forced onto it and that is because Bassa have created a unfounded mistrust among crew and unfortunately Willie Walsh has not made matters easier with his style of management.
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Mixed fleet
According to Recruitment at The Rivers:
There are 300 Mixed Fleet crew who are flying and 135 recruits in the training school.
"IFCE Mixed Fleet is hitting the required offers per month for all three roles: customer service manager (band 3), future talent crew and cabin crew
"IFCE Gatwick cabin crew has attracted over 2000 applications. Assessments in the Rivers are progressing well and we are well on our way to meet the manpower requirement for this fleet."
"IFCE Gatwick cabin crew has attracted over 2000 applications. Assessments in the Rivers are progressing well and we are well on our way to meet the manpower requirement for this fleet."
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I don't think anyone will be surprised by that. It is a popular job to do. The basic salary is not much different to post 97 starting salary, it's the whole package that is so different.
Even when I joined BA 22 years ago I took a drop in my basic coming from another airline but my take home pay was ok because of O/T and allowances etc.
I have been told that BA want a churn rate of 15% and they have set the total package low in order to achieve that. I think the churn rate will be even higher from the amount of pm's I receive from new joiners that feel very let down by the reality of their rosters and their take home pay so far.
Time will tell if this is a sensible policy but what you can be sure of, is that there will always be a never ending supply of people wanting to be cabin crew because it's every little girls dream, well it was mine!
Even when I joined BA 22 years ago I took a drop in my basic coming from another airline but my take home pay was ok because of O/T and allowances etc.
I have been told that BA want a churn rate of 15% and they have set the total package low in order to achieve that. I think the churn rate will be even higher from the amount of pm's I receive from new joiners that feel very let down by the reality of their rosters and their take home pay so far.
Time will tell if this is a sensible policy but what you can be sure of, is that there will always be a never ending supply of people wanting to be cabin crew because it's every little girls dream, well it was mine!
She has posted a Mixed Fleet crew members roster, that was found in the CRC next to a printer, and left some of the crew names visible for others to read. An attempt to cover up the names was made but some of them are still visible and this is totally out of order because she has not obtained anyone's permission to post their personal roster like this.
Quick folks, somebody get on the BASSA forums and screen-capture this - it may be needed as evidence!
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Betty Girl,
Unfortunately BA have woken up to the current CC market and are de-incentivising the idea that being Cabin Crew is a long term career. Except for those who the company wish to be CSM in the future they want the high turnover rate as, in the long term, it makes the personell costs far cheaper.
The cost of constant re-training is far cheaper than the long term retention of crew with accrued benefits and pensions.
Unfortunately BA have woken up to the current CC market and are de-incentivising the idea that being Cabin Crew is a long term career. Except for those who the company wish to be CSM in the future they want the high turnover rate as, in the long term, it makes the personell costs far cheaper.
The cost of constant re-training is far cheaper than the long term retention of crew with accrued benefits and pensions.
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Abbey Road
Oh dont worry BA will have got that one. Lets hope she goes too. Another nail in the Bassa coffin perhaps
Quick folks, somebody get on the BASSA forums and screen-capture this - it may be needed as evidence!
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I totally agree with Betty Girl: the problem is trust.
Many crew don't trust their current management. They don't think BF and WW will keep their promises. Instead they prefer to believe what they are told by their union. Most of them honestly believe that if they don't take a stance now, their future within BA will be doomed.
Judging from my last trips there are a lot of crew who feel mistreated by their employer one way or another. So I am not quite as optimistic as JT about the outcome of the ballot on Friday.
Many crew don't trust their current management. They don't think BF and WW will keep their promises. Instead they prefer to believe what they are told by their union. Most of them honestly believe that if they don't take a stance now, their future within BA will be doomed.
Judging from my last trips there are a lot of crew who feel mistreated by their employer one way or another. So I am not quite as optimistic as JT about the outcome of the ballot on Friday.
Last edited by Tolliver; 19th Jan 2011 at 19:47.
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Betty Girl,
Unfortunately BA have woken up to the current CC market and are de-incentivising the idea that being Cabin Crew is a long term career. Except for those who the company wish to be CSM in the future they want the high turnover rate as, in the long term, it makes the personell costs far cheaper.
The cost of constant re-training is far cheaper than the long term retention of crew with accrued benefits and pensions.
Unfortunately BA have woken up to the current CC market and are de-incentivising the idea that being Cabin Crew is a long term career. Except for those who the company wish to be CSM in the future they want the high turnover rate as, in the long term, it makes the personell costs far cheaper.
The cost of constant re-training is far cheaper than the long term retention of crew with accrued benefits and pensions.
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King of Kabul, it might be fact that quality people in your small department are leaving, but is that a bad thing company wide?
As someone posted a few pages earlier, being a stewardess years ago was a very glamorous job people did for a couple of years, and then moved on.
Would it be reasonable to say that's what the company wants to get back to? No more 20-odd years of service, which cost a lot of money but doesn't add any significant quality to the service.
Before my tea gets spiked with nastiness, I hasten to say a lot of BA CC do an excellent job, BUT there are a great number of people who only do the job because they can't get the same pay elsewhere and actually despise the company, the flight crew and their job
As someone posted a few pages earlier, being a stewardess years ago was a very glamorous job people did for a couple of years, and then moved on.
Would it be reasonable to say that's what the company wants to get back to? No more 20-odd years of service, which cost a lot of money but doesn't add any significant quality to the service.
Before my tea gets spiked with nastiness, I hasten to say a lot of BA CC do an excellent job, BUT there are a great number of people who only do the job because they can't get the same pay elsewhere and actually despise the company, the flight crew and their job
Judging from my last trips there are a lot of crew who feel mistreated by their employer one way or another.
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Too right Abbey Road,
Some CC seem to think everyone in BA is "an enemy against crew"
Want to know why?
Think long and hard about your current lifestyle. YOU WILL NOT GET THE SAME DEAL ELSEWHERE
Apart from sickness levels hitting highs at wimbledon etc, on the bus to work one of our "highly experienced" biddies was advocating the fact that every crew member should make use of their annual 5 dependency days. "just tell them your mum is not well, I use them every year..."
Some CC seem to think everyone in BA is "an enemy against crew"
Want to know why?
Think long and hard about your current lifestyle. YOU WILL NOT GET THE SAME DEAL ELSEWHERE
Apart from sickness levels hitting highs at wimbledon etc, on the bus to work one of our "highly experienced" biddies was advocating the fact that every crew member should make use of their annual 5 dependency days. "just tell them your mum is not well, I use them every year..."
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Abbey Road,
no one was asking for sympathy. I was just sharing a personal observation and voiced my concern that the outcome on Friday may after all be in favour of further strike action
no one was asking for sympathy. I was just sharing a personal observation and voiced my concern that the outcome on Friday may after all be in favour of further strike action
Junior trash
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I was just sharing a personal observation and voiced my concern that the outcome on Friday may after all be in favour of further strike action
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What a long game of chess this is turning out to be. I feel we are now stronger and prouder than before to be supporting our union against this dictatorship roll on Friday another great ballot result once again.
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I can't believe they've been stupid enough to post that roster on the internet with the names still visible.
It would take about 30 seconds with Microsoft Paint to make it impossible to read, but clearly no-one in UNITE has the brains.
Undoubtably, if Liz Malone gets the sack over this, they'll be screaming that it's bullying again.
It would take about 30 seconds with Microsoft Paint to make it impossible to read, but clearly no-one in UNITE has the brains.
Undoubtably, if Liz Malone gets the sack over this, they'll be screaming that it's bullying again.
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king of kabul,
You raise a valid point. No one is exempt from the current strategy of bonus in stead of annual pay increase.
The point is, do you think BA pays you a decent wage, or more importantly, can you get a better wage elsewhere?
If the answer is YES then people will be leaving and BA will have to offer a better package. If NO than BA is cleansing itself of over paid employees and will not increase pay package.
Market forces, be it CC, pilots, or managers.
Some of these groups will have a greater strangle hold than others though...
You raise a valid point. No one is exempt from the current strategy of bonus in stead of annual pay increase.
The point is, do you think BA pays you a decent wage, or more importantly, can you get a better wage elsewhere?
If the answer is YES then people will be leaving and BA will have to offer a better package. If NO than BA is cleansing itself of over paid employees and will not increase pay package.
Market forces, be it CC, pilots, or managers.
Some of these groups will have a greater strangle hold than others though...
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I am new to this company and I have never in my life been so depressed and downbeat.
The job is not at all what I was expecting - I have flown before and Cabin Crew and Flight Crew got on so well. In this company something is so very wrong and ~Im not just talking about current crew and new crew.
I was told by my ex to come on here, at first I thought all of you where ok but pompous - now I realise - you are part of the problem - you have to sort this out. Im new, my fleet is new, its not what was sold to me, but thats life and I will get on.
But you lot on here - dont you realise, you have to work with these people - you are so horrific to many of these people, its wrong, you are so wrong.
BA was never ever going bust - it wasnt for that - even I no see that after just 3 months - this wony last, belive me it wont last
The job is not at all what I was expecting - I have flown before and Cabin Crew and Flight Crew got on so well. In this company something is so very wrong and ~Im not just talking about current crew and new crew.
I was told by my ex to come on here, at first I thought all of you where ok but pompous - now I realise - you are part of the problem - you have to sort this out. Im new, my fleet is new, its not what was sold to me, but thats life and I will get on.
But you lot on here - dont you realise, you have to work with these people - you are so horrific to many of these people, its wrong, you are so wrong.
BA was never ever going bust - it wasnt for that - even I no see that after just 3 months - this wony last, belive me it wont last