BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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BASSA open and honest?
Well here is their disgraceful reply;
I'll reply to this just as soon as I've come down off the roof. 
Dear XXXXXX,
Your request for the audited accounts of the BASSA branch of Unite have been forwarded to me by XXXXX XXXXX. I have now had a chance to make enquiries on your behalf.
We have been made aware of a campaign on various discussion forums to expose alleged financial irregularity involving this branch. Your correspondence appears to repeat these insinuations. I can assure you that these allegations are completely baseless and potentially libellous.We cannot agree with your assertion that these branch accounts have been requested by "many members". In fact your request is the first such made to the best of my knowledge.
We have been told by the branch secretary that the accounts you are seeking are not available at this time. If at any time in the future they do become available for members and ex members to view, we will endeavour to make that known to you. As is common practice we will always insist that you view such accounts unaccompanied on Unite premises and in the strictest confidence.
If there are any further queries you have on the accounts of this branch please get back in touch with me directly.
In the meantime I thank you for your concern and for your continued support of Unite the Union.
In solidarity,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Your request for the audited accounts of the BASSA branch of Unite have been forwarded to me by XXXXX XXXXX. I have now had a chance to make enquiries on your behalf.
We have been made aware of a campaign on various discussion forums to expose alleged financial irregularity involving this branch. Your correspondence appears to repeat these insinuations. I can assure you that these allegations are completely baseless and potentially libellous.We cannot agree with your assertion that these branch accounts have been requested by "many members". In fact your request is the first such made to the best of my knowledge.
We have been told by the branch secretary that the accounts you are seeking are not available at this time. If at any time in the future they do become available for members and ex members to view, we will endeavour to make that known to you. As is common practice we will always insist that you view such accounts unaccompanied on Unite premises and in the strictest confidence.
If there are any further queries you have on the accounts of this branch please get back in touch with me directly.
In the meantime I thank you for your concern and for your continued support of Unite the Union.
In solidarity,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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We have been told by the branch secretary that the accounts you are seeking are not available at this time.
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BASSA membership
Establishing the true headcount:
The pay office deals with a number of deductions for staff and a good example is the FSRC*
A long suffering unpaid committee member would sit in the depths of TBA and dutifully check off each subscription from a long computer printout each month.
Things have moved on and BASSA could get the information from BA in any format they wished and one thing is for sure, they would know exactly how many members were subscribing using the "check off scheme", and incidentally BA charge 2.5% of the sub for the service.
As Ottergirl says, that just leaves the CC89/Amicus membership who pay directly and clearly BASSA are going through a data cleaning exercise on that front.
With the data to hand, someone has still got to go through the BASSA database and establish the status of each entry, that is member in good standing or not.
Once that task is completed, a definitive list of members can be forwarded to the ERS for balloting.
On another front:
I see that BASSAwitch has got the good news from BASSA.
Just so we are clear why this is an issue:
I used to pay £16.38 pcm (£196.56 pa) deducted by the pay office annotated T&GWU
It was my understanding that UNITE and BASSA received £10.96 pcm (£131.52 pa) and £5.42pcm (£65.04 pa) respectively less the 2.5% collection fee charged by BA
It is also my understanding that the BASSA Branch Secretary receives an honorarium of 5% of the UNITE subs, that is 5% of £131.52 pa. per member. A figure of £6.57 pa per member.
Furthermore, I know that £7.12 pa of my Unite subscription was treated as a political levy to support the Labour Party and it was my right to opt out but I never did.
Based on a membership of 10,000 members:
Allegedly
.
The pay office deals with a number of deductions for staff and a good example is the FSRC*
A long suffering unpaid committee member would sit in the depths of TBA and dutifully check off each subscription from a long computer printout each month.
Things have moved on and BASSA could get the information from BA in any format they wished and one thing is for sure, they would know exactly how many members were subscribing using the "check off scheme", and incidentally BA charge 2.5% of the sub for the service.
As Ottergirl says, that just leaves the CC89/Amicus membership who pay directly and clearly BASSA are going through a data cleaning exercise on that front.
With the data to hand, someone has still got to go through the BASSA database and establish the status of each entry, that is member in good standing or not.
Once that task is completed, a definitive list of members can be forwarded to the ERS for balloting.
On another front:
I see that BASSAwitch has got the good news from BASSA.
Just so we are clear why this is an issue:
I used to pay £16.38 pcm (£196.56 pa) deducted by the pay office annotated T&GWU
It was my understanding that UNITE and BASSA received £10.96 pcm (£131.52 pa) and £5.42pcm (£65.04 pa) respectively less the 2.5% collection fee charged by BA
It is also my understanding that the BASSA Branch Secretary receives an honorarium of 5% of the UNITE subs, that is 5% of £131.52 pa. per member. A figure of £6.57 pa per member.
Furthermore, I know that £7.12 pa of my Unite subscription was treated as a political levy to support the Labour Party and it was my right to opt out but I never did.
Based on a membership of 10,000 members:
Allegedly
- The BASSA branch secretary receives an honorarium of £65,760 pa for the collection of the Unite subs of circa £1.3 million pa
- Unite the union receive circa £1.3 million pa in subs from members and correctly produce and distribute audited accounts
- The BASSA branch receive the balance of the subs from members, circa £650k pa, but publishes no accounts as to how they are applied.
- The Labour Party benefits from a £71,200 pa political levy from BA Cabin Crew
.
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I've just Googled "union branch accounts" and found the following:
Unite - Transport and General Workers Union accounts - investigation by the TGW Union Certification Officer into a branch accounts which (it's a long read) seems to be a somewhat similar case involving an alleged failure to keep and supply accounts to members of a union branch. There's also something in there regards an alleged "failure to elect". It includes the Certification Officers decisions, and some further opinions.
Unite - Transport and General Workers Union accounts - investigation by the TGW Union Certification Officer into a branch accounts which (it's a long read) seems to be a somewhat similar case involving an alleged failure to keep and supply accounts to members of a union branch. There's also something in there regards an alleged "failure to elect". It includes the Certification Officers decisions, and some further opinions.
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Abbey Road
Can you show me the legislation that shows that the branch in question is outside the law? Its parent unions annual accounts are available to the public with the Certification Office. I have looked and can see no ruling with that shows that Bassa are or have been outside the law as of today.
This is where I am looking -
Certification Officer - Decisions
This is where I am looking -
Certification Officer - Decisions
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Please let's remember there is no foundation whatsoever that these people are "crooks". None.
No wrongdoing has been alleged, and no evidence is available to prove - or disprove - such an allegation. It doesn't help repeating such insinuations here.
Here is the legislation relating to the requirement for Unions, and their branches, to publish annual accounts and make them available to members:
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/52/part/I/chapter/III/crossheading/accounting-records
BASSA members seeking further information into the accounts should follow due process, ensuring a robust record of the process is made, and ensuring the correct people are copied in.
To ensure impartiality, why hasn't Amicus been asked for their accounts, or are they the same
.
The BASSA reponse sets out that the "accounts requested are not available at this time"; this could refer to the current or previous year's accounts, which may well be (perfectly legally) not yet prepared, or not yet signed off by the auditor.
Please do make it explicit that you are requesting accounts from 2009, used to compile the Unite accounts ending 31 December 2009:
http://www.unitetheunion.org/pdf/Sta...rs%20Final.pdf
..as well as the preceding three years' accounts which should by now have been signed off and should be available to you.
No wrongdoing has been alleged, and no evidence is available to prove - or disprove - such an allegation. It doesn't help repeating such insinuations here.
Here is the legislation relating to the requirement for Unions, and their branches, to publish annual accounts and make them available to members:
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/52/part/I/chapter/III/crossheading/accounting-records
BASSA members seeking further information into the accounts should follow due process, ensuring a robust record of the process is made, and ensuring the correct people are copied in.
To ensure impartiality, why hasn't Amicus been asked for their accounts, or are they the same
.The BASSA reponse sets out that the "accounts requested are not available at this time"; this could refer to the current or previous year's accounts, which may well be (perfectly legally) not yet prepared, or not yet signed off by the auditor.
Please do make it explicit that you are requesting accounts from 2009, used to compile the Unite accounts ending 31 December 2009:
http://www.unitetheunion.org/pdf/Sta...rs%20Final.pdf
..as well as the preceding three years' accounts which should by now have been signed off and should be available to you.
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A Reminder here, as on the Pax/SLF thread. If you choose to call an organisation or person a "Crook" or otherwise accuse them of behving illegally, you need to be aware that PPRuNe will pass on your details (including IP) to lawyers if necessary. In short, these may be anonymous forums, but they do not entitle you to libel for free.
We don't need the grief - censor your own posts according to the rules of common-sense, or this will be done for you, and stringent sanctions may be applied - correction, even....
We don't need the grief - censor your own posts according to the rules of common-sense, or this will be done for you, and stringent sanctions may be applied - correction, even....
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Why are non BASSA members so interested in the accounts of an organisation they openly detest? Are you really hoping to influence how their union members think and act from here?
Would our union open its books to BASSA members baying for blood? I doubt it. This forum needs to grow up and realise that it has no influence over BASSA or Unite. It might be a better tactic to try to persuade the Leadership team to disclose every penny it has spent on creating a whole new disciplinary structure because BALPA members asked for it, or maybe disclosing the real economic effect of the continued ballots on forward bookings, or the amount spent on flying Americans to the UK to stay in hotels for weeks to train as volunteers while paying their colleagues overtime to cover their jobs.
I know this view will be as popular as a genital wart in a gang bang but, what the hell.
Would our union open its books to BASSA members baying for blood? I doubt it. This forum needs to grow up and realise that it has no influence over BASSA or Unite. It might be a better tactic to try to persuade the Leadership team to disclose every penny it has spent on creating a whole new disciplinary structure because BALPA members asked for it, or maybe disclosing the real economic effect of the continued ballots on forward bookings, or the amount spent on flying Americans to the UK to stay in hotels for weeks to train as volunteers while paying their colleagues overtime to cover their jobs.
I know this view will be as popular as a genital wart in a gang bang but, what the hell.
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I don't recall asking BA for anything....
Sorry Syndicate 9, but please can you explain what you posted here?
Your quote below very much gives the impression that you are telling us that British Airways has spent MONEY on a 'whole new disciplinary structure'. Please elaborate on that.
Also, please can you tell me how (and indeed why) BA created this 'whole new disciplinary structure' that you talk about, and more importantly how the British Airways Pilots all got together to 'ask' British Airways to implement this COSTLY 'new disciplinary structure'?
I copy in your quote below for ease of reference.....
Your quote below very much gives the impression that you are telling us that British Airways has spent MONEY on a 'whole new disciplinary structure'. Please elaborate on that.
Also, please can you tell me how (and indeed why) BA created this 'whole new disciplinary structure' that you talk about, and more importantly how the British Airways Pilots all got together to 'ask' British Airways to implement this COSTLY 'new disciplinary structure'?
I copy in your quote below for ease of reference.....
It might be a better tactic to try to persuade the Leadership team to disclose every penny it has spent on creating a whole new disciplinary structure because BALPA members asked for it
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gr8tballsoffire
Just a small but significant correction, hope you don't mind.
APEX became part of GMB in 1989 and has no connection with UNITE (other than working productively alongside it in several other staff groups) but otherwise you're absolutely correct, GMB reps work entirely voluntarily, rightly so, in my view.
I was a senior APEX rep (now part of UNITE) and in seven years I never took any money (nor did any other rep in our branch) from the union.I took on the role, because I wanted to represent the views of my colleagues and to support them at disciplinaries to the best of my ability.
APEX became part of GMB in 1989 and has no connection with UNITE (other than working productively alongside it in several other staff groups) but otherwise you're absolutely correct, GMB reps work entirely voluntarily, rightly so, in my view.
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Sorry FlybyMerchant. I was referring to a post that was on the BALPA forum some time ago, around the beginning of the dispute with Unite, where one of our more well known reps at the time, explained how he had asked BA to protect pilot volunteers and explained some of the ways in which this would be done. I wasn't a member of this site then so I'm not sure if the BALPA post was ever copied across or not. Those of you who are still in BALPA may be able to access it.
The unit that was set up by BA, was also discussed on this forum a week or two ago, copied in from a discussion on the BASSA forum I think.
I hope that helps.
The unit that was set up by BA, was also discussed on this forum a week or two ago, copied in from a discussion on the BASSA forum I think.
I hope that helps.
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Syndicate,
Are you a pilot? Just wondered because your posts in the last couple of days are written in a way that makes out you may be one ( ie referring to Balpa reps as ' one of our reps') but if you look back through your posting history, that does not seem to be the way you posted in the past, particularly your first post on pprune.
Can you confirm if you are a pilot, cabin crew or ex cabin crew or anything else, just for clarity.
Thanks.
Are you a pilot? Just wondered because your posts in the last couple of days are written in a way that makes out you may be one ( ie referring to Balpa reps as ' one of our reps') but if you look back through your posting history, that does not seem to be the way you posted in the past, particularly your first post on pprune.
Can you confirm if you are a pilot, cabin crew or ex cabin crew or anything else, just for clarity.
Thanks.
Junior trash
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I was referring to a post that was on the BALPA forum some time ago, around the beginning of the dispute with Unite, where one of our more well known reps at the time, explained how he had asked BA to protect pilot volunteers and explained some of the ways in which this would be done. I wasn't a member of this site then so I'm not sure if the BALPA post was ever copied across or not.
We're talking here about a post you've never seen, cant confirm exists, has never been posted directly here or on BASSA, was never mentioned at the time by anyone yet has mysteriously been discovered 12 months later in order to support the recent Leiden conspiracy theory.
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Syndicate 9
Slightly incredulous in the same way as Betty and Hotel. Subtly pointed references to the existence of a 'Unit' set up with Balpa's direction using BA's money to protect volunteers, wavering identity problems. Do I believe you? The Jury's out - hang on it's just come back.......NO!
But you're harmless so who cares?
But you're harmless so who cares?
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On the Sky ticker
Fresh ballot of British Airways Cabin Crew for industrial action to begin on March 1st!
Unbelievable! Here we go again. Oil at over 106 dollars a barrel, shares tumbling, world wide uncertainty...and the BASSA mindset!
...And as quick as it appeared...it's disappeared..anyone know what's occuring??
Unbelievable! Here we go again. Oil at over 106 dollars a barrel, shares tumbling, world wide uncertainty...and the BASSA mindset!
...And as quick as it appeared...it's disappeared..anyone know what's occuring??
Last edited by RadarIdent; 22nd Feb 2011 at 17:00. Reason: Disappeared from the sky ticker
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It's on the UNITE website New Strike
Perhaps Sky just don't think it particularly news worthy anymore.
Perhaps Sky just don't think it particularly news worthy anymore.