British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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HOVIS
I was completely true in what I said, but I was poking the LAE community when I said it. If I was an LAE at BA still, I would be pushing Mr Walsh for market rate +10%. All of us that left, might start looking back
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Hovis
No idea, but what is certain is that a cc member on £29000 (plus expenses) is taking home a hell of a lot more money than a BA technician and by all accounts a BA LAE can only dream of the kind of wage a senior CSD or purser takes home.
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Posted by bacabincrew
Maybe they should all be kept on as Cabin Crew
Maybe they should all be kept on as Cabin Crew
A friend of mine who has operated twice as VCC, is enjoying her stint as cabin crew. She loves it so much and may even be applying for the position if this dispute continues. Another friend who is a temp with previous experience as cc with other airlines is looking forward to applying for the position of Cabin Manager given the opportunity. Sadly the strikers are making a rod for their own own backs.
Incidentally, I was on an early standby today and along with several other CSDS, I wasn't required to operate. There were so many crew who had reported today, there wasn't room to sit down anywhere.
It appeared to me as if the entire Eurofleet crew community had reported for duty.
I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my personal opinions.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 29th Mar 2010 at 20:40. Reason: Added bacabincrew to 'quote'
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Why Strike ?
I have watched and read with interest these posts, there is one recurring theme, that of crew complement imposition without agreement. (as a reason to strike).
As it has been legally accepted that crew complement in not contractual, then agreement is not needed, in fact no negotiation is needed, only consultation. The difference being that contractually changes need to be negotiated and agreed, non contractually changes need only consultation on how to implement the changes, taking into account the views of both sides.
As 9 months of consultation did not result in any joint consensus on how to implement, then BA, after a reasonably time, has the legal right to change any non contractual arrangement. Therefore the strike is unreasonable and will not change the outcome.
As it has been legally accepted that crew complement in not contractual, then agreement is not needed, in fact no negotiation is needed, only consultation. The difference being that contractually changes need to be negotiated and agreed, non contractually changes need only consultation on how to implement the changes, taking into account the views of both sides.
As 9 months of consultation did not result in any joint consensus on how to implement, then BA, after a reasonably time, has the legal right to change any non contractual arrangement. Therefore the strike is unreasonable and will not change the outcome.
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Oh litebulbs!.
How the worm has turned. I remember when you were a technician son. You were all about getting the A license recognition and payment. To be fare i think the average BA technician signs for a hell of alot more than those initial 20 items that you were privy too. Anyway why waste your time on this forum. There must be a hell of alot more interesting things at TC.
How the worm has turned. I remember when you were a technician son. You were all about getting the A license recognition and payment. To be fare i think the average BA technician signs for a hell of alot more than those initial 20 items that you were privy too. Anyway why waste your time on this forum. There must be a hell of alot more interesting things at TC.
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Oh litebulbs!.
How the worm has turned. I remember when you were a technician son. You were all about getting the A license recognition and payment. To be fare i think the average BA technician signs for a hell of alot more than those initial 20 items that you were privy too. Anyway why waste your time on this forum. There must be a hell of alot more interesting things at TC.
How the worm has turned. I remember when you were a technician son. You were all about getting the A license recognition and payment. To be fare i think the average BA technician signs for a hell of alot more than those initial 20 items that you were privy too. Anyway why waste your time on this forum. There must be a hell of alot more interesting things at TC.
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fruitbat
And does that 29k figure include all those CC who are part time? If so a full time member earns much more.
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Exactly, so a full time CC members cost to the company is significantly more than 29k. Many cc are 50%, some even 33%.
I would estimate the average full time WW main crew's cost is somewhere about 40k.
I would estimate the average full time WW main crew's cost is somewhere about 40k.
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Exactly, so a full time CC members cost to the company is significantly more than 29k. Many cc are 50%, some even 33%.
I would estimate the average full time WW main crew's cost is somewhere about 40k.
I would estimate the average full time WW main crew's cost is somewhere about 40k.
It's the average cost - cant you see that - I thought you lot all had a good education.
And out of interest Fruitbat - what would your stance be on taking action against a management that where trying to make changes to your agreements? Would you advocate strike action? Oh tell you what dont bother answering me that as I have already seen your many posts advocating action along with stirring comments on the 12th February 2008 such as "It is a battle we MUST win and indeed we will."
My how times change eh?
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I agree do what you feel is right. If you feel strongly enough then strike. However it would appear many of your colleagues don't share your views and hence you will find yourself in an ever increasing minority as this saga goes on.
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fruitbat
I agree too - this is a legal strike, you each have to do what you feel is right at the time - when you lot had a dispute, many Pilots would have gone on strike - what many of us Cabin Crew simply cannot comprehend is this - what is the difference?
You tried to stop something that you felt would undermine your role, career, pay, terms and conditions. We are doing the exactly the same yet being totally castigated for it - plus we see Pilots simply revelling in the fact that they are accelerating our demise.
Many Pilots and Volunteers joined 'Willie's Army' to help 'save the airline from going bust' - everyone can now see that there is no danger of that - they are instead working with BA to crush our representation, lower my terms and conditions and force me out of a job I have done competently for over 20 years.
For one employee to do that to another employee is simply unacceptable.
You tried to stop something that you felt would undermine your role, career, pay, terms and conditions. We are doing the exactly the same yet being totally castigated for it - plus we see Pilots simply revelling in the fact that they are accelerating our demise.
Many Pilots and Volunteers joined 'Willie's Army' to help 'save the airline from going bust' - everyone can now see that there is no danger of that - they are instead working with BA to crush our representation, lower my terms and conditions and force me out of a job I have done competently for over 20 years.
For one employee to do that to another employee is simply unacceptable.
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Yes but this strike is about imposition. New Fleet which could be a threat like Openskies, was given the go ahead in Unites last offer.
Its about fighting strongly for the most important issues/threats. This 'cause' isn't it, hence the lack of total support.
Its about fighting strongly for the most important issues/threats. This 'cause' isn't it, hence the lack of total support.
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fruitbat
It's a mess and it needs sorting - believe me - no crew member wants to be on strike but the crew simply cannot trust the Leadership Team - don't get me wrong I am not a 'militant' - I am a genuinely straight forward bloke who is very disappointed in how I and my fellow crew members have been portrayed and at this moment in time I have a grave sense of injustice toward BA, Mr Walsh, fellow employees and The Daily Mail!!!!!
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BA cabin crew are paid, on average, twice the benchmark/market rate wage.
Besides my comments where not aimed at a debate about Openskies - it was the fact that you threatened action and would have taken it against something you disagreed with
And irrespective - you still threatened IA - in fact you BigBrutha where very vehement - are you still the same now you are a rep?
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Im not arsed about benchmarking against airlines such as Easyjet, Virgin, Thomson, Monarch - the fact that these other operators can pay peanuts is irrelevant. I have a contract and payscales - why should I be arsed what Easyjet, Virgin, Thomson, Monarch pay?
If you can find me an equivalent airline to benchmark against in the UK then the data becomes valid.
If you can find me an equivalent airline to benchmark against in the UK then the data becomes valid.
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bacabincrew.
With due respect, you need to talk to the many staff in the many depts who have had change over the last year. MG's who's pension payments are now only 80% of the annual salary, no pay award or bonus for last year, no bonus and pay rise or bonus expected this year or next, (I think you were offered pay rises for the next 3 years). We were severly pissed off, no one went one strike.
The Level 4 community on the ramp who are now band three with major loss of income, were severly pissed off no one went one strike.
The ramp staff, GSS( all ) who have had there pay reduced and these staff on 1/2 of what you are earning, no one went on strike.
You have no supporters on the ramp ( well maybe a few ) or any other ground staff, since the offer cabin crew were offered has been seen on the "TINTERNET". The reduction in staffing levels in CC do not even compare what has happened in other areas.
Wake up and smell the coffee !! Most staffs' support is for the greater majority of CC who have come to work to keep this airline going. The likes of Tiramsu et al.
BASSA and UNITE will and are losing this battle and rightly so, someone else has posted on here , wrong time, wrong fight. Enjoy the dole queue when you are on it, it's not pleasent I've been there, it ain't pleasant as some will find.
With due respect, you need to talk to the many staff in the many depts who have had change over the last year. MG's who's pension payments are now only 80% of the annual salary, no pay award or bonus for last year, no bonus and pay rise or bonus expected this year or next, (I think you were offered pay rises for the next 3 years). We were severly pissed off, no one went one strike.
The Level 4 community on the ramp who are now band three with major loss of income, were severly pissed off no one went one strike.
The ramp staff, GSS( all ) who have had there pay reduced and these staff on 1/2 of what you are earning, no one went on strike.
You have no supporters on the ramp ( well maybe a few ) or any other ground staff, since the offer cabin crew were offered has been seen on the "TINTERNET". The reduction in staffing levels in CC do not even compare what has happened in other areas.
Wake up and smell the coffee !! Most staffs' support is for the greater majority of CC who have come to work to keep this airline going. The likes of Tiramsu et al.
BASSA and UNITE will and are losing this battle and rightly so, someone else has posted on here , wrong time, wrong fight. Enjoy the dole queue when you are on it, it's not pleasent I've been there, it ain't pleasant as some will find.