British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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the Professional Cabin Crew Council will deal with that then
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Why? What "attitude" are you referring to? And what's wrong with it? Not everything has to be a "fight" you know. That is the beauty of collaboration. As and when the New Fleet issue arises, the Professional Cabin Crew Council will deal with that then. For now, those that are working are perfectly happy with the way things are. The peacefulness it brings is almost tangible.
Simply the attitude that it's acceptable for a company to operate during a strike without negotiation or hope of reacing a deal.
Regardless of what side of the fence you sit on, it's difficult not to recognise that we can't go on as we are. As nice as the atmosphere might be in the office and on the jets, it's not a sustainable business model.
Perhaps PCCC's first act should be to approach the company and ask them to extend the offer of three weeks ago (the one immediately before the strike dates were announced) to all those who have worked as that offer seems to have been seen as acceptable to them?
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those that are working are perfectly happy with the way things are
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I have just watched the video Q and A with WW and when asked about an alternative bargaining group for Cabin crew, he was quite clear that he preferred to deal with UNITE and had no plans to change the status quo. It appears to be BASSA that are perceived as the bad apple but that UNITE are at least a known quantity.
Is Unite/BASSA capable of that?
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own view and not that of BA.
Eddy,
Your comment regarding the 'company being unwilling to negotiate during the strike' is tosh.
WW has stated repeatedly that he is willing to hold SENSIBLE negotiations at any time. Unite and lalaland will not negotiate sensibly and have not negotiated sensibly for over a year - this time. In my time in BA I do not know of any time that bassa have negotiated sensibly!!
I am recently returned from a trip as a pilot volunteer and I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. It gave me a far greater awareness of the great job that the majority of our cabin crew do.
There was an excellent atmosphere because people actually wanted to be there and do their best.
There was no nastiness, grumbling, spouting of inflamatory lies etc etc.
I am sorry for the decent cabin crew who have been misguided and downright lied to by a bunch of egotistical morons. However, I now hope that WW does not give one single inch to the morons that are trying to destroy BA.
With more and more volunteers being trained up I think that there is now no need to get the strikers back. IF strikers are ever allowed back in I am certain that they will find a very different attitude prevailing.
Lets allow the ground volunteers that wish to remain cabin crew to remain.
Lets ensure that the temporary cabin crew remain.
Lets ensure that the genuinely good atmosphere remains.
Lets therefore hope that WW offers strikers the option of NF or leave.
The present unrest has had one very positive result - it has instilled a newfound breath of fresh air into those striving to keep OUR company going.
Your comment regarding the 'company being unwilling to negotiate during the strike' is tosh.
WW has stated repeatedly that he is willing to hold SENSIBLE negotiations at any time. Unite and lalaland will not negotiate sensibly and have not negotiated sensibly for over a year - this time. In my time in BA I do not know of any time that bassa have negotiated sensibly!!
I am recently returned from a trip as a pilot volunteer and I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. It gave me a far greater awareness of the great job that the majority of our cabin crew do.
There was an excellent atmosphere because people actually wanted to be there and do their best.
There was no nastiness, grumbling, spouting of inflamatory lies etc etc.
I am sorry for the decent cabin crew who have been misguided and downright lied to by a bunch of egotistical morons. However, I now hope that WW does not give one single inch to the morons that are trying to destroy BA.
With more and more volunteers being trained up I think that there is now no need to get the strikers back. IF strikers are ever allowed back in I am certain that they will find a very different attitude prevailing.
Lets allow the ground volunteers that wish to remain cabin crew to remain.
Lets ensure that the temporary cabin crew remain.
Lets ensure that the genuinely good atmosphere remains.
Lets therefore hope that WW offers strikers the option of NF or leave.
The present unrest has had one very positive result - it has instilled a newfound breath of fresh air into those striving to keep OUR company going.
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YouTube - British Airways Cabin Crew Strike
Another funny video of people shouting slogans at trees and peoples houses. I was expecting to see more people at the football club though. It would have been considered a small turnout at the smoking hut at LGW.
Another funny video of people shouting slogans at trees and peoples houses. I was expecting to see more people at the football club though. It would have been considered a small turnout at the smoking hut at LGW.
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Sporran, please direct me to the piece where I said that the company wasn't prepared to negotiate..... Please - cos I'm struggling to find it and I supposedly wrote it.
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Just back from CRC, another good day for the operation, BA are learning every day to manage things even better (suprised? I am)
It seems that EF is going the way of LGW and that alot more of the operation can be manned, this is due in part to the demographics of the fleet. WW appears to be holding strong at just over %50 on strike days, but its still enough with the CCVs to man the profitable parts of the operation, suffice to say I think BA would have wanted a little more, but it appears that support for UNITE is galvanised around the longer serving WW crew, perception being that they have more to lose.
I'm pleased to say that the great atmosphere in the CRC continues to hold up, and its been a pleasure working the last few days thanks to everyone
BA have collated loads of data on first time strikers, second times strikers, those that have turned up to work and those that have indicated they are willing to work. Over the next 2 weeks more work will go in to refining the contingency plans for the next wave of strikes however long they are.
I had the benefit of talking to a couple of engineers also this morning, both UNITE members and both spitting feathers at the fund raising from the UNITE branches. Both said "over my dead body"
To the U-Tube video. Frankly I don't care where people sit with regard to this dispute, and I guess Eddy has summed it up in an earlier post. It makes for dire viewing.
The very people that Len McClusky describes as poor downtrodden, bullied, mainly part-time working mothers have turned into a pack of baying people, its abhorrent viewing. BA simply do not need people like this in their business, given time when the dust settles hopefully this mentality will be robustly managed from the business.
I would garner that this video is as damaging as the previous put out by UNITE comparing Cabin Crew to Nelson Mandela et al.............
It seems that EF is going the way of LGW and that alot more of the operation can be manned, this is due in part to the demographics of the fleet. WW appears to be holding strong at just over %50 on strike days, but its still enough with the CCVs to man the profitable parts of the operation, suffice to say I think BA would have wanted a little more, but it appears that support for UNITE is galvanised around the longer serving WW crew, perception being that they have more to lose.
I'm pleased to say that the great atmosphere in the CRC continues to hold up, and its been a pleasure working the last few days thanks to everyone
BA have collated loads of data on first time strikers, second times strikers, those that have turned up to work and those that have indicated they are willing to work. Over the next 2 weeks more work will go in to refining the contingency plans for the next wave of strikes however long they are.
I had the benefit of talking to a couple of engineers also this morning, both UNITE members and both spitting feathers at the fund raising from the UNITE branches. Both said "over my dead body"
To the U-Tube video. Frankly I don't care where people sit with regard to this dispute, and I guess Eddy has summed it up in an earlier post. It makes for dire viewing.
The very people that Len McClusky describes as poor downtrodden, bullied, mainly part-time working mothers have turned into a pack of baying people, its abhorrent viewing. BA simply do not need people like this in their business, given time when the dust settles hopefully this mentality will be robustly managed from the business.
I would garner that this video is as damaging as the previous put out by UNITE comparing Cabin Crew to Nelson Mandela et al.............
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Pornpants - I agree - the youtube clip makes for truly vile viewing.
The very people who claim to be on strike because they are being 'bullied by their employer', proceed to march to a hotel with the sole purpose of intimidating and bullying those colleagues who have a different opinion to them. And they are so proud of this that they rapidly post film of it on the internet for the world to see. If i were them I would want to keep this despicable behavior as quiet as possible.
Thy hypocrisy of the whole thing is nauseating.
The very people who claim to be on strike because they are being 'bullied by their employer', proceed to march to a hotel with the sole purpose of intimidating and bullying those colleagues who have a different opinion to them. And they are so proud of this that they rapidly post film of it on the internet for the world to see. If i were them I would want to keep this despicable behavior as quiet as possible.
Thy hypocrisy of the whole thing is nauseating.
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Eddy,
What? You expected the company to roll over and surrender because one part of it has decided to go on strike? Of course they are going to do their utmost to minimise the impact of the strike and get the life blood of the company - our passengers - to where they want to go. I think it is perfectly acceptable for the company to operate. If I recall correctly it was BASSA that announced strike dates after the offer of three weeks ago - choosing not to ask its members, and thereby invalidating that offer. The contingency plans then swung into action costing BA millions and so the final offer was extended. The way things have gone, I am sure most crew would now happily accept that one. I see that today Willie has put that offer forward again and asked Unite to ballot crew on it - but guess what - Tony Woodley is still not prepared to let crew decide!!!
Simply the attitude that it's acceptable for a company to operate during a strike without negotiation or hope of reacing a deal.
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Wobbler, you seem to have (mis)interpreted my post in the same way as Sporran did.
I said it wasn't acceptable for a company to operate like that (using volunteer crew and with a seemingly endless strike underway) - which it isn't. But nowhere did I say that it was the company's fault that it's operating as it is, and nowhere did I say that it was the company that was unprepared to return to the negotiating table.
I said it wasn't acceptable for a company to operate like that (using volunteer crew and with a seemingly endless strike underway) - which it isn't. But nowhere did I say that it was the company's fault that it's operating as it is, and nowhere did I say that it was the company that was unprepared to return to the negotiating table.
Eddy,
Your quote of 'Simply the attitude that it's acceptable for a company to operate during a strike without negotiation or hope of reacing a deal' (Post 1098) was in a response to HiFlyer 14 and strongly inferred that you think the company is operating aeroplanes, but unwilling to negotiate. WW has stated many times that he is willing to look at SENSIBLE alternatives. Alas, sensible is NOT a word in the lalaland dictionary!
bassa members voted in their 'democratic way' that they did not want negotiation because they considered the biggest meltdown in living memory to be just a blip. bassa offered a temporary solution, which they expected to be paid back. The typical 'no, no, no - what's the question' type of 'negotiating' that bassa have got away with for decades has not worked this time. Thankfully WW will not accept that non-negotiating style.
There are non so blind as those who cannot see, sums up the bassa diehards perfectly. They are still convinced that every other BA worker should make the sacrifices, so that they can maintain their cossetted existence.
Like everybody else I would like to see an early end to this dispute. While the eejits are still in power at lalaland that will not happen.
Interesting to see that WW only mentions dealing with unite in the future. Loooks like bassa will be marginalised no matter what happens.
I am sure that the BA lawyers are looking at the youtube footage of the beautifully conducted yahoo brigade out side the Aurora. The more of these 'type' of bullying individuals that can be added to the 'OUT' pile the better for the decent workers in the company.
Your quote of 'Simply the attitude that it's acceptable for a company to operate during a strike without negotiation or hope of reacing a deal' (Post 1098) was in a response to HiFlyer 14 and strongly inferred that you think the company is operating aeroplanes, but unwilling to negotiate. WW has stated many times that he is willing to look at SENSIBLE alternatives. Alas, sensible is NOT a word in the lalaland dictionary!
bassa members voted in their 'democratic way' that they did not want negotiation because they considered the biggest meltdown in living memory to be just a blip. bassa offered a temporary solution, which they expected to be paid back. The typical 'no, no, no - what's the question' type of 'negotiating' that bassa have got away with for decades has not worked this time. Thankfully WW will not accept that non-negotiating style.
There are non so blind as those who cannot see, sums up the bassa diehards perfectly. They are still convinced that every other BA worker should make the sacrifices, so that they can maintain their cossetted existence.
Like everybody else I would like to see an early end to this dispute. While the eejits are still in power at lalaland that will not happen.
Interesting to see that WW only mentions dealing with unite in the future. Loooks like bassa will be marginalised no matter what happens.
I am sure that the BA lawyers are looking at the youtube footage of the beautifully conducted yahoo brigade out side the Aurora. The more of these 'type' of bullying individuals that can be added to the 'OUT' pile the better for the decent workers in the company.
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Well im just back from another trip done during 'strike' and can I say that the atmosphere on board was just fantastic!! The crew were great and the pilots did a great job, well done!!
The CRC on sun was full of cc so clearly the figures that BASSA are giving out are total non sense!!
The CRC on sun was full of cc so clearly the figures that BASSA are giving out are total non sense!!
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Originally Posted by Sporran
Your quote of 'Simply the attitude that it's acceptable for a company to operate during a strike without negotiation or hope of reacing a deal' (Post 1098) was in a response to HiFlyer 14 and strongly inferred that you think the company is operating aeroplanes, but unwilling to negotiate. WW has stated many times that he is willing to look at SENSIBLE alternatives. Alas, sensible is NOT a word in the lalaland dictionary!
So my response was to, let's say for arguments' sake, a rep. And if our current Bassa reps had refused to sit down with BA it'd be fair to say to them that it's unacceptable to refuse to negotiate because a company cannot operate with an ongoing strike impacting its operation?
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IMAGE, and that Bath Rd video
Having watched in shock at the antics that took place on the Bath Rd, one word floated into my mind .... IMAGE.
There is, here and elsewhere, quite a bit of discussion as to what the role of CC actually is. Well, setting aside the obvious onboard safety aspects, and the general customer service bits, I'm still left with that word ... IMAGE.
Wearing the BA uniform, complete with our wings, places us CC (along with all of our uniformed colleagues) well and truly at the forefront of the IMAGE of BA. I'm left truly wondering if the people in that video (and others) are actually capable in any way of carrying the responsibility of that IMAGE.
At some point, We (by which I mean BA) will have to address the damage done to our brand by this period of IA. Can those who marched along the Bath Rd seriously be expected to understand that, or to be considered capable of participating genuinely in whatever it is we have to do to rebuild our IMAGE?
At the moment, my view is that no, they can't. Having worked on 5 of the 7 strike days, I've seen and been part of a huge step-change that's been driven by everyone, in all areas of the airline, during these days. The levels of co-operation, openness, willingness and customer focus displayed by all that I've worked with has been truly breath-taking. The sheer amount of organisation that's gone into the operation has left me almost stunned. It's also left me very hopeful of a bright future for all of us. Well all of us that is, except people like those in the video.
A colleague remarked to me yesterday that during WWII, the technological advances, born out of need, were immense. Something similar has happened at BA. What we have learnt about our capabilities, values and achievements, we now take with us into the future. All these things can be harnessed and encouraged, built upon and directed to a common goal: making BA a great place to work and, once again, a great airline to fly with.
Will we see any "movememt" once this current strike finishes? Too early to tell, even given the letters reported in The Mirror (and now officially, on the BA intranet). But whatever happens, all of us who ARE BA, have shown ourselves what we are capable of. I think we surprised ourselves, and hopefully we also surprised all those watching us.
There is, here and elsewhere, quite a bit of discussion as to what the role of CC actually is. Well, setting aside the obvious onboard safety aspects, and the general customer service bits, I'm still left with that word ... IMAGE.
Wearing the BA uniform, complete with our wings, places us CC (along with all of our uniformed colleagues) well and truly at the forefront of the IMAGE of BA. I'm left truly wondering if the people in that video (and others) are actually capable in any way of carrying the responsibility of that IMAGE.
At some point, We (by which I mean BA) will have to address the damage done to our brand by this period of IA. Can those who marched along the Bath Rd seriously be expected to understand that, or to be considered capable of participating genuinely in whatever it is we have to do to rebuild our IMAGE?
At the moment, my view is that no, they can't. Having worked on 5 of the 7 strike days, I've seen and been part of a huge step-change that's been driven by everyone, in all areas of the airline, during these days. The levels of co-operation, openness, willingness and customer focus displayed by all that I've worked with has been truly breath-taking. The sheer amount of organisation that's gone into the operation has left me almost stunned. It's also left me very hopeful of a bright future for all of us. Well all of us that is, except people like those in the video.
A colleague remarked to me yesterday that during WWII, the technological advances, born out of need, were immense. Something similar has happened at BA. What we have learnt about our capabilities, values and achievements, we now take with us into the future. All these things can be harnessed and encouraged, built upon and directed to a common goal: making BA a great place to work and, once again, a great airline to fly with.
Will we see any "movememt" once this current strike finishes? Too early to tell, even given the letters reported in The Mirror (and now officially, on the BA intranet). But whatever happens, all of us who ARE BA, have shown ourselves what we are capable of. I think we surprised ourselves, and hopefully we also surprised all those watching us.
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Have Unite shot themselves in the foot again? Surely the 2% levy will be wiped out pretty quickly by the masses withdrawing their membership? I'd be interested to know how many have left? After watching the Youtube video I walked straight round the the post box and sent it off. With xxxxx
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BASSA and Unite
FlexSRS wrote:
This explains something which had puzzled me. Willie Walsh said that Derek Simpson has called him on Friday 12 March to ask for an extension of the strike mandate in order to ballot the cabin crew on BA's offer. Walsh agreed subject to no strike action, and Simpson called him back to confirm the agreement. Walsh said he heard nothing more from Simpson and the next day he was told that Unite was announcing the strike dates on TV!
There must have been a split in Unite, and now you've explained it. If BASSA pressed ahead with strike action, so over-ruling Simpson, you can well imagine that Simpson was too embarrassed to call Walsh and admit that he could not deliver on their agreement the previous day.
Indeed, it does now seem as if Simpson has been marginalised. What was he doing in Bangkok during this big dispute?
In fact, Bassa then changed their constitution because of this very issue, so now, once the action is under way, it is only Bassa that can call off this strike, not Unite. Unite just have to grimly support them to the bitter end.
There must have been a split in Unite, and now you've explained it. If BASSA pressed ahead with strike action, so over-ruling Simpson, you can well imagine that Simpson was too embarrassed to call Walsh and admit that he could not deliver on their agreement the previous day.
Indeed, it does now seem as if Simpson has been marginalised. What was he doing in Bangkok during this big dispute?
Last edited by Caribbean Boy; 30th Mar 2010 at 17:42.
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Cost savings
ottergirl wrote:
Just to clarify: the existing crew complements (imposed last November) do give BA the required cost savings. However, if Unite were to accept BA's recent offers to reinstate 184 cabin crew positions, then equivalent cost savings must be made elsewhere. Unite couldn't do this, and offering a pay cut which was actually a loan to be repayable in full didn't cut any ice with Willie Walsh.
Why do we need an offer back on the table?
Because the savings from changing the crew complements are insufficient to meet the required amount.