British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Originally Posted by rzw30
Either way, it's going to be a pretty uncomfortable time after the end of IA when ex striking CC have to work with those who did not strike.
The strikers might be seen as second class citizens because they dont have ST.
Is it really possible for the 2 groups to mix?
Seems to me that the ex strikers either need the same Ts and Cs, or they can't work in the same airline (notwithstanding the New Fleet which you might consider as a similar situation, but is not because the new CC signed up to different Ts and Cs)
The strikers might be seen as second class citizens because they dont have ST.
Is it really possible for the 2 groups to mix?
Seems to me that the ex strikers either need the same Ts and Cs, or they can't work in the same airline (notwithstanding the New Fleet which you might consider as a similar situation, but is not because the new CC signed up to different Ts and Cs)
Is it going to be easy? No, probably not. Is it possible? Yes.
I operated a 2 day 6 in between the last strike and this one. As expected, during the briefing the subject of the strike came up. I told the crew that as far I was concerned, everyone had a choice and should be respected for the decision they made, regardless of what side of the fence they were on. The crew agreed and we went on to have a really nice trip, complete with the usual hugs and kisses at the end. Three of us were not striking, one was. We didn't ignore what was happening but there was certainly no animosity from either side.
I'll admit, it's probably easier for us at LGW. It is a smaller base and we pretty much know each other. But I'm also sure there will probably be some conflict somewhere along the line. I'm not totally living in cloud cuckoo land. Yes, LGW is a good base to work at but we aren't perfect, despite the rosy picture that some crew insist on painting. We have problems and personality clashes, just like at LHR and just like every other airline in the world. But I really hope we can sort it out amongst ourselves without haven't to resort to involving management.
Jsl
P.S. Sorry, this is completely off thread but I keep wondering about the easyJet ad that regularly appears on this thread. The one that says..."No strikes at easyJet!" Erm...I may be wrong but I thought their pilots in Germany recently went on strike? Or did it not happen in the end? I did have a look in R&N but couldn't find a conclusive answer. Sorry. Just curious...
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Yes Pornpants.I re-call in late 05 yourselves were rather concerned that WW had you in his sights.Fortunately your concerns were shortlived.My recollection at the time was that the CC community was sympathetic to your cause.Clearly the exact opposite is the case now that the CC have become WWs much anticipated target.
I digress,but to answer your question...Given the unique relationship that exists between us on board,providing safety,security,good communication etc,did you not for one moment consider the potential for damage to that vital partnership/relationship that your divisive actions would create.
I digress,but to answer your question...Given the unique relationship that exists between us on board,providing safety,security,good communication etc,did you not for one moment consider the potential for damage to that vital partnership/relationship that your divisive actions would create.
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...so perhaps less about the FC/CC CRM issues and more about the striker/non-striker issues.
...it is the pro-strike brigade who are just over 60% of the Cabin Crew workforce (ie voted Yes to strike) that are currently wrecking the train set and we will ALL have to live with the fallout of their actions.
Guess that is democracy!
...it is the pro-strike brigade who are just over 60% of the Cabin Crew workforce (ie voted Yes to strike) that are currently wrecking the train set and we will ALL have to live with the fallout of their actions.
Guess that is democracy!
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Miamimike,
There should be no damage. Whilst onboard we are all required to act professionally. Irrespective of our personal views or our actions during the current IA we are required to act together with the express aim of delivering our customers and passengers safely and expediciously to their destination.
If you feel that the actions of others might impact your ability, after 30 years, to do that then I might suggest that a change of job and scene is required. As I have posted above I will brook no arguments or harrassment in either direction against those who took IA or those who didn't.
We are all professional people who should have the ability to differentiate our personal views from our professional role.
If you wish to kick off in the pub downroute then at least we all have the option to ignore you.
There should be no damage. Whilst onboard we are all required to act professionally. Irrespective of our personal views or our actions during the current IA we are required to act together with the express aim of delivering our customers and passengers safely and expediciously to their destination.
If you feel that the actions of others might impact your ability, after 30 years, to do that then I might suggest that a change of job and scene is required. As I have posted above I will brook no arguments or harrassment in either direction against those who took IA or those who didn't.
We are all professional people who should have the ability to differentiate our personal views from our professional role.
If you wish to kick off in the pub downroute then at least we all have the option to ignore you.
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Miamimike
If you can't continue to work with people who's views differ from yours, and you threaten to 'disrupt' the vital chains of communication that provide the safety and security on a flight, I suggest you could find yourself in very hot water....
You are paid to do your job, whether you come out for a beer the other end, is really none of my business and frankly the atmosphere would be better if you didn't.
If you can't continue to work with people who's views differ from yours, and you threaten to 'disrupt' the vital chains of communication that provide the safety and security on a flight, I suggest you could find yourself in very hot water....
You are paid to do your job, whether you come out for a beer the other end, is really none of my business and frankly the atmosphere would be better if you didn't.
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miamimike,
Any crew member from either end that lets personal feelings get in the way of safety and security shouldn't be on ANY aircraft in the first place. I'd seriously have to question their intelligence considering it's their hide up there too!
Any crew member from either end that lets personal feelings get in the way of safety and security shouldn't be on ANY aircraft in the first place. I'd seriously have to question their intelligence considering it's their hide up there too!
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with further contingency training courses for vols (CAA-approved of course) apparently scheduled for April/May ..... how long before a full normal schedule can be run from all bases, whatever the ongoing level of IA
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I can probably answer that for pornpants. During the OpenSkies dispute the support of cabin crew was never officially sought or even requested by BALPA. During the present dispute not only has BASSA attacked pilots in the most libellous way since the very outset (sweetheart deals, in managements pockets, only interested in their own pensions, should all Foxtrot Oscar) they then have the audacity to complain when the pilots don't support them. As I believe I mentioned in my previous posts, the flights with the non-striking crew are going well, and indeed are more enjoyable and show more effective teamwork than pre-strike flights had shown for quite some time. What you must realise mike is that the strikers are the minority, and come the time they go back to work they will be clearly identifiable as harbouring bad feelings and a negative attitude. There has been paradigm shift in the way BA is being run and their petulant behaviour will no longer be tolerated, not by their majority non-striking colleagues but by their management too. If you won't work with the team, as part of the team, you really can expect to be performance managed out of the business.
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find out more about Unite ...
If anyone wants to find out more about Unite, google them - just make sure you click on the sponsored link at the top of the screen (but bear in mind that Unite have to pay google everytime someone clicks on that sponsored link)
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Sorry you couldnt take it on the chin.Yes of course there will be those who put professionalism first.Given the diversity of the CC community its a bit naive to think its going to be plain sailing.
I will,probably,still march the left-over F/C sticky toffee pud up into the flight deck.....but there are some that wont!.
I will,probably,still march the left-over F/C sticky toffee pud up into the flight deck.....but there are some that wont!.
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For any Flight crew volunteering, do the flying hours you accrue as a CC member count towards your yearly maximum hours?
In other words, is it more beneficial to use ground staff as flying volunteers as to protect those hours?
Also, as mentioned earlier a trip would earn £195 after tax there and back, what is this payment for if the trip is voluntary to help out the company?
In other words, is it more beneficial to use ground staff as flying volunteers as to protect those hours?
Also, as mentioned earlier a trip would earn £195 after tax there and back, what is this payment for if the trip is voluntary to help out the company?
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Miamimike, there will be no problems post reconciliation. Wirbelsturm has summed it up very well as has Jetsetlady
It suits UNITE/BASSA to bang on about CRM issues to try and poison any real debate, about the real issues, don't fall for it, especially after 30 years
It suits UNITE/BASSA to bang on about CRM issues to try and poison any real debate, about the real issues, don't fall for it, especially after 30 years
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Juan
well have a read through recent posts, and then you could perhaps help out many of us here with something we've been missing .....
specifically : what precisely are your demands for ending IA ?
We genuinely are mystified, and despite many previous requests to others there have been no coherent answers, least of all from BASSA supporters involved in picket duty such as your goodself
when responding please don't quote previous comment / statements from either BASSA or indeed BA mgt, and try to avoid waffly descriptions such as a 'properly negotiated settlement by sitting round the table' or 'no more imposition' or 'protecting my T&C's' or 'more respect from WW' etc etc.......
please spell out in your own words, from the heart, what exactly you're looking for
that way we can respect your views by at least understanding why you're on strike, it will clear a lot of confusion and who knows ...... you might even get some new converts to your cause....
Juan, please take up this invitation.....
Just back from picket line duty at LGW...have I missed much on here?
specifically : what precisely are your demands for ending IA ?
We genuinely are mystified, and despite many previous requests to others there have been no coherent answers, least of all from BASSA supporters involved in picket duty such as your goodself
when responding please don't quote previous comment / statements from either BASSA or indeed BA mgt, and try to avoid waffly descriptions such as a 'properly negotiated settlement by sitting round the table' or 'no more imposition' or 'protecting my T&C's' or 'more respect from WW' etc etc.......
please spell out in your own words, from the heart, what exactly you're looking for
that way we can respect your views by at least understanding why you're on strike, it will clear a lot of confusion and who knows ...... you might even get some new converts to your cause....
Juan, please take up this invitation.....
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unite raising £700000
BBC say Unite about to raise £700000 from members to support strikers. We need a lot more people to go on strike or New Fleet won't be very big.
PS, just landed on a jumbo with a full crew, nearly full pax load and several of the team admitted to a yes vote but now dont trust the union so are working. Anecdotal I know but significant none the less.
PS, just landed on a jumbo with a full crew, nearly full pax load and several of the team admitted to a yes vote but now dont trust the union so are working. Anecdotal I know but significant none the less.
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A pro-BASSA member suggested earlier (or I read something from UNITE), that the volunteers were simply prolonging the dispute. For once, I actually agree with this point.
However this is a good thing for the company and a bad thing for the strikers. BA will have a cost at which the dispute is then no longer worthwhile. They reach this cost in a short time making a large daily loss, or they can last for a long time making a relatively small daily loss. The striking crew lose the same amount of money every day, so a prolonged strike is financially more painful for the strikers and it also serves to wear them down too.
You can bet that BAs daily losses during this strike period have been less than during last weekend.
UNITE are losing this battle but that was always inevitable anyway.
However this is a good thing for the company and a bad thing for the strikers. BA will have a cost at which the dispute is then no longer worthwhile. They reach this cost in a short time making a large daily loss, or they can last for a long time making a relatively small daily loss. The striking crew lose the same amount of money every day, so a prolonged strike is financially more painful for the strikers and it also serves to wear them down too.
You can bet that BAs daily losses during this strike period have been less than during last weekend.
UNITE are losing this battle but that was always inevitable anyway.
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oh dear Juan ....I did suggest that in the interests of clarity you should not refer to BASSA in your answer, and just to give a reasoned explanation in your own words
let me try again (for the sake of all of us who are desperate to understand what your aims are) .... ...
What precisely would encourage you to end picket line duty and return to work??
let me try again (for the sake of all of us who are desperate to understand what your aims are) .... ...
What precisely would encourage you to end picket line duty and return to work??