British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gatbusdriver
Quick question for Eddy
Originally Posted by gatbusdriver
how often does he get to look through the tech log
Originally Posted by gatbusdriver
what problems does he generally see
Originally Posted by gatbusdriver
what does he know about the MEL
Originally Posted by gatbusdriver
what does he know about deferred defects?
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bacabincrew,
My apologies - had only just woken up! I agree fwiw on the state of some a/c interiors. Having been on one of the new 777s recently, there's a world of difference but, as you rightly point out, not the engineering department's fault.
As for McCluskey's comments, once again have they been backed up with verifiable evidence? I'd have assumed, if true, the BBC would have been all over it like a cheap suit.
MrB
My apologies - had only just woken up! I agree fwiw on the state of some a/c interiors. Having been on one of the new 777s recently, there's a world of difference but, as you rightly point out, not the engineering department's fault.
As for McCluskey's comments, once again have they been backed up with verifiable evidence? I'd have assumed, if true, the BBC would have been all over it like a cheap suit.
MrB
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA's own figures tell a different story. But who to believe?!
Personally, I sat at LHR for about 7 hours yesterday and saw plenty of BA movements. Not nearly as many as I'd normally have expected, but still a significant number. And also a number of charter plane movements.
Personally, I sat at LHR for about 7 hours yesterday and saw plenty of BA movements. Not nearly as many as I'd normally have expected, but still a significant number. And also a number of charter plane movements.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: south england
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apologies Eddy
I inferred from your post that you were referring to the tech log as opposed to cabin defects.
Although I do believe it was a poor choice of words to suggest that the aircraft are ill maintained, that conjures up ideas of unsafe aircraft, this would rightly annoy any engineer.
Regards
GTB
I inferred from your post that you were referring to the tech log as opposed to cabin defects.
Although I do believe it was a poor choice of words to suggest that the aircraft are ill maintained, that conjures up ideas of unsafe aircraft, this would rightly annoy any engineer.
Regards
GTB
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cabin defects have a negative impact on pax comfort, and pax will let CC know this. Cabin defects can also increase CC´s physical workload or negatively impact the service CC are able to provide.
An ever growing list of deferred cabin problems, while not affecting the airworthiness of an aircraft, is indeed a major negative for CC.
It is management, not the engineers, who are directly responsible for the length of the DDL. Management, not the engineers, decide that the law of maximum fixing times is a goal rather than a line in the sand.
Of course, Captains have the authority not to accept an aircraft with too many (legal) cabin defects. Such a decision always makes for miraculous and quick repairs.
To avoid thread derailment, can we please agree that the following definitions are more or less generally accepted in civil aviation?
MEL: minimum equipment list
A FAA-mandated list of aircraft equipment that must be functioning before an aircraft may legally take off with passengers. Repairs to some items not essential to an aircraft’s airworthiness may be deferred for limited periods of time approved by the FAA.
CDL - Cabin Discrepancy Log
CML - Cabin Maintenance Log
Cabin log used by cabin attendants to record non-airworthiness discrepancies encountered in the passenger cabin and correctice actions taken by maintenance.
DDL - Deferred Defects List
Certain defects may be deferred if there is a shortfall in the parts to rectify them, or insufficient time is available to allow the engineers the opportunity to clear them. Defects should not be deferred without prior reference to and in accordance with the Minimum Equipment List (MEL) sometimes known as the Allowable Deficiency List. Deferred defects are to be listed in the appropriate section of the Technical Log to give visibility to the aircrew and ground crews. The detail recorded in the deferred defect entry will include cross references to the Technical Log page the defect was originally entered on, and a limit by which time it is to be rectified. The re-deferral of defects on reaching the target limit should not be automatic, but should be controlled by a higher authority, such as Quality Assurance. Therefore all deferred defects must be subject to review at regular intervals, and this review period should be controlled by company documentation.
EASA
Can defects that will not hazard the flight safety be deferred by the pilot according to the approved minimum equipment list "MEL"?
A pilot always makes use of the MEL, the technician proposes to defer defects according to the MEL but the pilot accepts or not. This is how the MEL works. The MEL allows continuing operation with specific equipment unserviceable when the dispatch conditions are specified in the MEL. The continuation of operation is limited by the rectification interval
Please put the MEL / DDL / LAMEs discussion to bed now and move on.
An ever growing list of deferred cabin problems, while not affecting the airworthiness of an aircraft, is indeed a major negative for CC.
It is management, not the engineers, who are directly responsible for the length of the DDL. Management, not the engineers, decide that the law of maximum fixing times is a goal rather than a line in the sand.
Of course, Captains have the authority not to accept an aircraft with too many (legal) cabin defects. Such a decision always makes for miraculous and quick repairs.
To avoid thread derailment, can we please agree that the following definitions are more or less generally accepted in civil aviation?
MEL: minimum equipment list
A FAA-mandated list of aircraft equipment that must be functioning before an aircraft may legally take off with passengers. Repairs to some items not essential to an aircraft’s airworthiness may be deferred for limited periods of time approved by the FAA.
CDL - Cabin Discrepancy Log
CML - Cabin Maintenance Log
Cabin log used by cabin attendants to record non-airworthiness discrepancies encountered in the passenger cabin and correctice actions taken by maintenance.
DDL - Deferred Defects List
Certain defects may be deferred if there is a shortfall in the parts to rectify them, or insufficient time is available to allow the engineers the opportunity to clear them. Defects should not be deferred without prior reference to and in accordance with the Minimum Equipment List (MEL) sometimes known as the Allowable Deficiency List. Deferred defects are to be listed in the appropriate section of the Technical Log to give visibility to the aircrew and ground crews. The detail recorded in the deferred defect entry will include cross references to the Technical Log page the defect was originally entered on, and a limit by which time it is to be rectified. The re-deferral of defects on reaching the target limit should not be automatic, but should be controlled by a higher authority, such as Quality Assurance. Therefore all deferred defects must be subject to review at regular intervals, and this review period should be controlled by company documentation.
EASA
Can defects that will not hazard the flight safety be deferred by the pilot according to the approved minimum equipment list "MEL"?
A pilot always makes use of the MEL, the technician proposes to defer defects according to the MEL but the pilot accepts or not. This is how the MEL works. The MEL allows continuing operation with specific equipment unserviceable when the dispatch conditions are specified in the MEL. The continuation of operation is limited by the rectification interval
Please put the MEL / DDL / LAMEs discussion to bed now and move on.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: About to join the A1, UK
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
McCluskey claims of bullying
If, as McCluskey claims, bullying BA management are at it again, why hasn't BASSA filed specific charges against the bullies?
He claims that some of the 'pawlits' have been bullies - no one is suspended.
In the history of industrial unrest, I cannot remember a group of 'misguided' employees so isolated in their cause -so coralled by self-serving leaders. There is not one coherent argument, anywhere in support of the CC cause, that carries acumen, which is a reflection of the 'questionable intellect' of the leadership (IMHO).
Finally, to all BASSA strike supporters. The chair of BASSA is,( IMHO again), marooned. She stands in the way of progress. This dispute has revealed the change in the arline industry away from the 'halcyon days' - an era which also included, to a degree, myopic management - Mr Walsh is very different, he stands firm, with a mandate to deliver a business model that can compete and prosper.
With the recent developments with Aer Lingus as an example of what will probably happen eventually, a good many BA CC are going to get very emotional.
He claims that some of the 'pawlits' have been bullies - no one is suspended.
In the history of industrial unrest, I cannot remember a group of 'misguided' employees so isolated in their cause -so coralled by self-serving leaders. There is not one coherent argument, anywhere in support of the CC cause, that carries acumen, which is a reflection of the 'questionable intellect' of the leadership (IMHO).
Finally, to all BASSA strike supporters. The chair of BASSA is,( IMHO again), marooned. She stands in the way of progress. This dispute has revealed the change in the arline industry away from the 'halcyon days' - an era which also included, to a degree, myopic management - Mr Walsh is very different, he stands firm, with a mandate to deliver a business model that can compete and prosper.
With the recent developments with Aer Lingus as an example of what will probably happen eventually, a good many BA CC are going to get very emotional.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: england
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mostly its time restraints blocked sink could take all night to fix if you have to get at some of the more buried pipes , might help if cc did not think of a sink as a receptacle for food products split tea bags , coffee etc!
Junior trash
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just been flagged up elsewhere.
BA already know how much they deducted from your pay, because they are the ones that did it. 
So why would BASSA not want this info on their forum really??
PLEASE DO NOT POST FIGURES FROM YOUR PAY SLIPS.
THIS FORUM IS MONITORED BY THE COMPANY AND ANY INFORMATION GATHERED CAN BE PASSED ON TO THE MEDIA.
THIS WILL BE SUBSEQUENTLY BE USED AGAINST US.
ANY FURTHER POSTS WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY DELETED.
FIRST AND FINAL WARNING
BASSA MODERATOR
THIS FORUM IS MONITORED BY THE COMPANY AND ANY INFORMATION GATHERED CAN BE PASSED ON TO THE MEDIA.
THIS WILL BE SUBSEQUENTLY BE USED AGAINST US.
ANY FURTHER POSTS WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY DELETED.
FIRST AND FINAL WARNING
BASSA MODERATOR
So why would BASSA not want this info on their forum really??
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: England
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any of our pilots care to comment on this latest missive?
Cost-cutting goes into reverse as BA strike-breakers become world's most expensive cabin crew
Cost-cutting goes into reverse as BA strike-breakers become world's most expensive cabin crew
Junior trash
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any of our pilots care to comment on this latest missive?
Anyway, only 14 volunteers flew yesterday, too many normal crew.
Theres a lot of "believes" and "estmates" in there. 2100 crew per day for example, thats overstated by a factor of 2 at least. Whilst they can only estimate the number of crew required they can state exactly the number (359) that turned up, but then chuck in a suspiciously round 100 ICCs.
Made up, from beginning to end.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are some of us who Bassa would probably LOVE to post their pay slip details.... Let the public REALLY see what a growing majority of crew earn (a very average wage, albeit very decent for what I do).
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More lies.
I normally trust Sky News so I tend to trust them more than our beloved Mr Walsh. 
> YouTube - SKY Live At Five
> YouTube - SKY Live At Five
Junior trash
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I normally trust Sky News so I tend to trust them more than our beloved Mr Walsh
BA have still not cancelled a single additional flight during either strike period. Enough crew have turned up for the advertised services.
You can of course believe what you like.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: England
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
Any of our pilots care to comment on this latest missive?
The reality is that flying 8 crew instead of 11, and paying pilots fixed rate allowances makes the marginal cost much cheaper for BA.
Anyway, only 14 volunteers flew yesterday, too many normal crew.
Theres a lot of "believes" and "estmates" in there. 2100 crew per day for example, thats overstated by a factor of 2 at least. Whilst they can only estimate the number of crew required they can state exactly the number (359) that turned up, but then chuck in a suspiciously round 100 ICCs.
Made up, from beginning to end.
Any of our pilots care to comment on this latest missive?
The reality is that flying 8 crew instead of 11, and paying pilots fixed rate allowances makes the marginal cost much cheaper for BA.
Anyway, only 14 volunteers flew yesterday, too many normal crew.
Theres a lot of "believes" and "estmates" in there. 2100 crew per day for example, thats overstated by a factor of 2 at least. Whilst they can only estimate the number of crew required they can state exactly the number (359) that turned up, but then chuck in a suspiciously round 100 ICCs.
Made up, from beginning to end.
Just curious to know how they worked out such a precise hourly rate
Junior trash
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just curious to know how they worked out such a precise hourly rate
Allowances wise, (ie the marginal cost as we'd have been stood idle otherwise) is £2.80 ish from check in to check out. Much, Much cheaper than the normal crewing situation.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: FL 600. West of Mongolia
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The True Professionals
The total professionalism, the dedication to our customers, the GENUINE SMILES that I have seen emminating both from the operating CC and customers alike.. It is a true pleasure to see the folks that are operating as CC on our aircraft over the past two days; they are a credit to themselves and to the airline. This so called rag tag band of non-striking CC, pilots, engineers and ground staff show us all how to behave and act with dignity and TRUE professionalism, and are doing an incredible job. From us, the rest of the airline, a heartfelt thank you to all. If some of 'McCluskey's Morons' could see what a great job these guys and gals are doing right now, maybe they should worrry after all. Oh, and not a single broken Crew Rest Area door lock reported in the CDL.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Locked door,
Have you had much experience of what it is like to be consulted with, rather than negotiating on behalf of? It was around 93 and BPR that drove the wages up, though negotiation, as you would know of you were involved.
I have and to suggest that BA would just hand out the best terms and conditions would be a bit naive.
Have you had much experience of what it is like to be consulted with, rather than negotiating on behalf of? It was around 93 and BPR that drove the wages up, though negotiation, as you would know of you were involved.
I have and to suggest that BA would just hand out the best terms and conditions would be a bit naive.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 35,000 ft
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The truth of the matter is, this strike is damaging to the business as a whole. BA over the years have spent time, money and effort on getting Flight and Cabin Crew to work closer (CRM etc) - this has now been blown out of the water due to the actions in part of those breaking the strike and those who have had Crew suspended for Facebook etc There is now a massive distrust of the Flight Crew amongst a large number of Cabin Crew
BAcabincrew - Sorry mate, but you couldn't be further from the truth.
The facts are - those that have broken the strike are greater in number than those that haven't. I was going to send a picture from T5 on Saturday just to show the amount of people in the departures lounge. It was like a normal day.
Distrust of pilots? Absolutely not. There is a massive sense of teamwork now between Flight Crew and Cabin Crew. The joint briefing is a huge success. The support the Flight Crew have given us has been superb, and the camaraderie now is brilliant. Crews (flight and cabin) are all meeting up for drinks downroute, and there has been a huge change in mindset. No amount of training could have achieved that.
Look mate, you can listen to the BASSA spin if that's what you believe. But I operated out of T5 on Saturday and I saw for myself. Lots of crew. Lots of passengers. Lots of flights. The ground staff are all praising us. The customers are all praising us. I feel like I did when I first joined BA umpteen years ago - proud.
My rostered flight went to plan on Saturday - we were only one crew member down and had to get someone from standby. They were sent out to the aircraft when passengers had boarded - and all the passengers applauded. We had a superb time on the trip - crew morale (on strike days anyway
) is the highest I have ever seen it. I didn't even realise it was a strike day to be frank!Nobody is against you. Infact, we all want the best for you and all our colleagues. I am deeply worried about my friends and colleagues who are still blindly supporting BASSA. But the ones who are coming to work know that the BASSA texts and emails are all lies. We know it's lies because we are sitting in the coffee shop when the text comes in saying "only 5 crew reported" - and there isn't a chair to be had. We know it's lies because I was putting my uniform on on Saturday morning to report for work when Unite stated on the TV that there would be NO departures - any crew you see will be arriving crew. We know it's lies because the "I went to work letter" implies that it's all volunteers - yet I haven't worked with a volunteer yet (more's the pity!).
We have no reason to lie to you. We want you to know the truth because - in true crew spirit - we all look after each other. BASSA/Unite are selling you down the river. Please, please believe us. Do yourself a favour - read everything and find out the truth. And then come and join us for a drink in the bar - downroute.