British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Latest in the press
This is the latest article on the daily mail:
We can't afford to keep on striking: BA cabin crew turn their fire on union militants | Mail Online
We can't afford to keep on striking: BA cabin crew turn their fire on union militants | Mail Online
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Staff Travel and Discrimination
Litebulbs - why should I as a non-striker non-cabin crew member of BA lose my ST benefits because of Industrial Action that has nothing to do with me?
Those that lost ST have only got themselves to blame they were fairly and publicly warned that ST would be withdrawn if IA went ahead, it did and they did. I was actually v disappointed when WW offered to reinstate ST even with restrictions if further IA was called off.
Funny isn't it when one group of people get a benefit/condition that is better than in another group no-one blinks an eyelid, but when a benefit/condition is taken away the party that has lost it screams discrimination.
Those that lost ST have only got themselves to blame they were fairly and publicly warned that ST would be withdrawn if IA went ahead, it did and they did. I was actually v disappointed when WW offered to reinstate ST even with restrictions if further IA was called off.
Funny isn't it when one group of people get a benefit/condition that is better than in another group no-one blinks an eyelid, but when a benefit/condition is taken away the party that has lost it screams discrimination.
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The latest ballot from UNITE is about Staff travel, unfair action against union reps and the use of short term contract cabin crew.
I assume then that BASSA, UNITE and BA have agreement on all other issues (of which the strike was called in the first place) ?
I assume then that BASSA, UNITE and BA have agreement on all other issues (of which the strike was called in the first place) ?
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The latest ballot from UNITE is about Staff travel, unfair action against union reps and the use of short term contract cabin crew.
I assume then that BASSA, UNITE and BA have agreement on all other issues (of which the strike was called in the first place) ?
I assume then that BASSA, UNITE and BA have agreement on all other issues (of which the strike was called in the first place) ?
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Unite doesn't have a leg to stand on regarding the disciplinary procedure unless proof can be brought that the procedure has been poorly executed. And when you bear in mind that those disciplined are entitled to union representation and a double appeal, then Unite is onto a loser.
As for temps: it is legal for an employer to recruit temps from an employment agency (a firm that does not employ the workers it supplies to the employer). The employer can also directly approach people and offer employment.
It is, however, illegal for an employer to recruit temps from an employment business (a firm that does employ the workers it supplies to the employer).
So, it is legal for BA to call people in the cabin crew hold pool and ask them to sign a temporary contract.
That brings us back to staff travel ...
As for temps: it is legal for an employer to recruit temps from an employment agency (a firm that does not employ the workers it supplies to the employer). The employer can also directly approach people and offer employment.
It is, however, illegal for an employer to recruit temps from an employment business (a firm that does employ the workers it supplies to the employer).
So, it is legal for BA to call people in the cabin crew hold pool and ask them to sign a temporary contract.
That brings us back to staff travel ...
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LD12986 wrote:
What I think you mean is that a strike based on a different ballot will have a new 12-week protection period for both the union and the strikers.
The union is, I think, quite entitled to ballot on anything it likes, including a repeat of the first ballot, but that 12-week protection period ends today. So, any future strikes on the same ballot would be without legal protection, meaning that BA could sue the union and sack the strikers.
Legally, this new ballot has to be about an entirely separate issue to the earlier ballot.
The union is, I think, quite entitled to ballot on anything it likes, including a repeat of the first ballot, but that 12-week protection period ends today. So, any future strikes on the same ballot would be without legal protection, meaning that BA could sue the union and sack the strikers.
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ACAS has put forward its own set of proposals to both sides;
BBC News - Acas proposals submitted to end British Airways dispute
BBC News - Acas proposals submitted to end British Airways dispute
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Bluejay
I have never said anybody should loose ST. I am just discussing whether the action BA took is lawful. I imagine that we will find out soon enough, if this new ballot goes ahead and BA attempt to block it through the courts.
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needing pennies
Well, that's fine then - going to work 'cos you need the pennies rather than considering 1000's of people who've had their holidays f*****d up?
Get a life.
Get a life.
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"You are not really welcome..."
I have just been on the phone with a friend and thought I would tell you guys about it, as I was really upset just listening to him! I have known this steward for almost 13 years, as we joined BA the same day - did our new entrant course together.
He told me he was called on his 2nd day of QRS (10Jun) and went straight to the aircraft and told he was working in club, where the first question he was asked by the other crew member was "is this your first day then?" to which he replied that it was day 2 - making it obvious my friend was not striking. My friend said he did quickly say hello to the rest of the cabin and flight crew and off they were. He tells me that even though the other crew member working with him in club hardly said a word and was not friendly and when earlier he went to the back to say hi and got a cold response, he just got on with the service. A while later, another crew member from traveller comes into club and asks the same question about which day of QRS was this for him...
Now...here is the "incident" bit - my friend was cooking the pilots meals and finishing the club service, while the other steward and CSD say they were going to help in traveller. When my friend goes to check the flight crew meals, feels that the oven (which was previously used to cook pax meals) didnt feel hot and the meals were not cooked. He looks up and sees the oven was selected to `fan` instead of `high`! My friend tells me he is 100% sure the oven was on `high` when he switched it on with the pilots meal, so it could only mean someone changed it on purpose.
My friend is a nice guy of a quit nature but told me we was really upset with this! He texted me when he got to YYY and today we spoke on the phone so he could tell me the details...
So, are we non-strikers the ones making the strikers feel uneasy??? I DONT THINK SO
He told me he was called on his 2nd day of QRS (10Jun) and went straight to the aircraft and told he was working in club, where the first question he was asked by the other crew member was "is this your first day then?" to which he replied that it was day 2 - making it obvious my friend was not striking. My friend said he did quickly say hello to the rest of the cabin and flight crew and off they were. He tells me that even though the other crew member working with him in club hardly said a word and was not friendly and when earlier he went to the back to say hi and got a cold response, he just got on with the service. A while later, another crew member from traveller comes into club and asks the same question about which day of QRS was this for him...
Now...here is the "incident" bit - my friend was cooking the pilots meals and finishing the club service, while the other steward and CSD say they were going to help in traveller. When my friend goes to check the flight crew meals, feels that the oven (which was previously used to cook pax meals) didnt feel hot and the meals were not cooked. He looks up and sees the oven was selected to `fan` instead of `high`! My friend tells me he is 100% sure the oven was on `high` when he switched it on with the pilots meal, so it could only mean someone changed it on purpose.
My friend is a nice guy of a quit nature but told me we was really upset with this! He texted me when he got to YYY and today we spoke on the phone so he could tell me the details...
So, are we non-strikers the ones making the strikers feel uneasy??? I DONT THINK SO
I hope that BA do NOT compromise on the basic issue of this whole debacle - BA management have the responsibility to manage the affairs of BA, not bassa.
My whole time in BA has seen bassa 'interfere' in the day-to-day operation of running an airline. This is a totally rediculous situation and has been exacerbated by weak management for many years. At long, long last we have a CEO that wants to ensure that management manage, not the power-hungry self-serving bassa reps.
THAT IS THE CRUX OF THIS DISPUTE - power.
WW MUST win this battle, and be seen to win the battle, for the 'city' and investors to continue to back us. The vast majority of BA employees want him to take drastic action against those people who have cost the company such a huge amount of money.
The only negotiating tool that the bassa clowns understand is the continuous threat of IA and WW must ensure that those individuals so intent on the continued disruption of BA are dealt with - permanently!!!!!!!
The total inability of the bassa clowns to 'negotiate' (please check definition in dictionary - it is a two-way discussion!!!!) has brought about what cabin crew had been concerned - New Fleet. Most of us have had a degree of sympathy regarding the possible introduction of a New Fleet, but that sympathy has now totally evaporated because of the total and utter intransegence of bassa reps, who have shown a glaring inability to to understand that the economic climate has changed for us ALL.
My whole time in BA has seen bassa 'interfere' in the day-to-day operation of running an airline. This is a totally rediculous situation and has been exacerbated by weak management for many years. At long, long last we have a CEO that wants to ensure that management manage, not the power-hungry self-serving bassa reps.
THAT IS THE CRUX OF THIS DISPUTE - power.
WW MUST win this battle, and be seen to win the battle, for the 'city' and investors to continue to back us. The vast majority of BA employees want him to take drastic action against those people who have cost the company such a huge amount of money.
The only negotiating tool that the bassa clowns understand is the continuous threat of IA and WW must ensure that those individuals so intent on the continued disruption of BA are dealt with - permanently!!!!!!!
The total inability of the bassa clowns to 'negotiate' (please check definition in dictionary - it is a two-way discussion!!!!) has brought about what cabin crew had been concerned - New Fleet. Most of us have had a degree of sympathy regarding the possible introduction of a New Fleet, but that sympathy has now totally evaporated because of the total and utter intransegence of bassa reps, who have shown a glaring inability to to understand that the economic climate has changed for us ALL.
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DutchStar wrote:
Every incident like this should be reported. It's no good your friend texting you, he should have told the captain about it.
Now...here is the "incident" bit - my friend was cooking the pilots meals and finishing the club service, while the other steward and CSD say they were going to help in traveller. When my friend goes to check the flight crew meals, feels that the oven (which was previously used to cook pax meals) didnt feel hot and the meals were not cooked. He looks up and sees the oven was selected to `fan` instead of `high`! My friend tells me he is 100% sure the oven was on `high` when he switched it on with the pilots meal, so it could only mean someone changed it on purpose.
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Introduce myself - a striker
Hi,
Wow...LONG thread
It has taken me days to read and days to decide if I have anything to add to it.
First I am BA cabin crew and I am a striker. I am not out to destroy British Airways. I joined the strike for very specific reasons and I get the impression that some of the people commenting on here would actually like to listen to them. If not, then I apologise for boring you.
The various formulations of various deals have been discussed and several posters seem to be under the impression that the central part of most of these, the MTP has been offered as a contractual right in The Way Forward documents.
I spoke to several managers prior to deciding how to vote in the ballot for strike action and they told me that it is definately not. (in fact, one said, your variable pay is not part of your contract, so the MTP will not be either)
At this point in time, the company had imposed changes to our 'scheduling agreements', specifically, to the crew compliments and had done so on the grounds that our scheduling agreements do not form part of our employment contracts.
These two pieces of information were extremely worrying to me and seemed to be unambivalent opposition to the assurances I was being given by the LT in BA.
I spoke to BASSA reps and Penny also said that the company are taking the view that none of our scheduling agreements are protected by contract law, and that this view was being challenged in the courts.
Now, unlike many crew, I found the idea of the MTP quite a positive thing, but not if it is not to be incorporated into contract (and each variety of The Way Forward I have seen seem to refuse to do this, they offer written assurances, but not contractual security).
In another situation, I may have decided that a written assurance from my managers was sufficient to allow me to accept the terms if it weren't for the fact that they had just unilaterally changed one part of the written assurance they had made previously.
Faced with that, I thought instead, that if they really intend to honour this deal, then why not make that pay contractual? Not incorporate into basic...because that would actually cost BA money, increasing pension costs etc. The MTP can be formulated as a separate but nontheless contractual agreement.
It was this one central point which made me vote 'yes' for a strike and when that yes vote was proved to be the choice of a majority of the crew, I went on strike. I know that there are no absolute guarantees in any industry, particularly aviation. Nearly every department in BA are proof that contractual pay can and will be cut...but I genuinely felt that without at least that minimum, there was no hope.
Can I continue, in an already too long post, to say that I am appalled to hear of the treatment Eddy has recieved. (Are you Eddy that used to post on Avcom forum?) Whoever is acting in this way is truely not representative of most of us. Strkers and non-strikers alike are afraid and intimidated at the moment, but that does not excuse hateful behaviour.
I can tell by having read a lot of this thread, that only some of the posters here listen to and try to understand what others say and that appears to be the case on a lot of forums, so I will not be suprised if I am attacked for my stumbling attempt to explain.
Wow...LONG thread
It has taken me days to read and days to decide if I have anything to add to it.
First I am BA cabin crew and I am a striker. I am not out to destroy British Airways. I joined the strike for very specific reasons and I get the impression that some of the people commenting on here would actually like to listen to them. If not, then I apologise for boring you.
The various formulations of various deals have been discussed and several posters seem to be under the impression that the central part of most of these, the MTP has been offered as a contractual right in The Way Forward documents.
I spoke to several managers prior to deciding how to vote in the ballot for strike action and they told me that it is definately not. (in fact, one said, your variable pay is not part of your contract, so the MTP will not be either)
At this point in time, the company had imposed changes to our 'scheduling agreements', specifically, to the crew compliments and had done so on the grounds that our scheduling agreements do not form part of our employment contracts.
These two pieces of information were extremely worrying to me and seemed to be unambivalent opposition to the assurances I was being given by the LT in BA.
I spoke to BASSA reps and Penny also said that the company are taking the view that none of our scheduling agreements are protected by contract law, and that this view was being challenged in the courts.
Now, unlike many crew, I found the idea of the MTP quite a positive thing, but not if it is not to be incorporated into contract (and each variety of The Way Forward I have seen seem to refuse to do this, they offer written assurances, but not contractual security).
In another situation, I may have decided that a written assurance from my managers was sufficient to allow me to accept the terms if it weren't for the fact that they had just unilaterally changed one part of the written assurance they had made previously.
Faced with that, I thought instead, that if they really intend to honour this deal, then why not make that pay contractual? Not incorporate into basic...because that would actually cost BA money, increasing pension costs etc. The MTP can be formulated as a separate but nontheless contractual agreement.
It was this one central point which made me vote 'yes' for a strike and when that yes vote was proved to be the choice of a majority of the crew, I went on strike. I know that there are no absolute guarantees in any industry, particularly aviation. Nearly every department in BA are proof that contractual pay can and will be cut...but I genuinely felt that without at least that minimum, there was no hope.
Can I continue, in an already too long post, to say that I am appalled to hear of the treatment Eddy has recieved. (Are you Eddy that used to post on Avcom forum?) Whoever is acting in this way is truely not representative of most of us. Strkers and non-strikers alike are afraid and intimidated at the moment, but that does not excuse hateful behaviour.
I can tell by having read a lot of this thread, that only some of the posters here listen to and try to understand what others say and that appears to be the case on a lot of forums, so I will not be suprised if I am attacked for my stumbling attempt to explain.
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Caribbean Boy
Actually, my friend told it to the pilots! He said he really didnt want to make a fuss, even though he was upset about it... In the meantime, the capt rings him and asks how much longer for their lunch so at that point he felt he should give them an explanation.
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Good post Sam.
I understand your distrust in the company, but if your current allowances are non contractual what is the harm in the MTP? The position you're in is no worse. In fact the contractual security you want is only good for 90 days anyway.
Re the imposition, the only thing I can ask is how were BA going to make any savings with BASSA refusing point blank to talk? The savings had to be made, BA therefore were forced into making non contractual ones. BASSAs refusal last year to accept ANY realistic changes forced BAs hand.
Lets hope the next leap will be the leap home
I understand your distrust in the company, but if your current allowances are non contractual what is the harm in the MTP? The position you're in is no worse. In fact the contractual security you want is only good for 90 days anyway.
Re the imposition, the only thing I can ask is how were BA going to make any savings with BASSA refusing point blank to talk? The savings had to be made, BA therefore were forced into making non contractual ones. BASSAs refusal last year to accept ANY realistic changes forced BAs hand.
Lets hope the next leap will be the leap home
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Hotel Mode
My thought process was that while my position was no worse on paper, the introduction of New Fleet was actually making it vastly worse.
That if the company genuinely wanted to introduce NF with assurances to existing crew, they would accept that offering a payment that (their own actions) demontrated could not be relied on was not the way to do it.
Like I said, I'm not unaware that contractual pay can also be changed, but you must agree, the company is less likely to do it by imposition.
That if the company genuinely wanted to introduce NF with assurances to existing crew, they would accept that offering a payment that (their own actions) demontrated could not be relied on was not the way to do it.
Like I said, I'm not unaware that contractual pay can also be changed, but you must agree, the company is less likely to do it by imposition.
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That if the company genuinely wanted to introduce NF with assurances to existing crew, they would accept that offering a payment that (their own actions) demontrated could not be relied on was not the way to do it.
If you were BA and starting new fleet now with no agreement and no chance of agreement from BASSA where would you send them?
I'm not saying BA are totally in the right but BASSA have made this many times worse for crew. Remember this time last year new fleet wasnt even happening had BAs proposal been accepted.
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MTP - Contractual
Sam Beckett:
I thought your post made very interesting reading and it's always good to hear a reasoned argument as to why someone went on strike.
In your post it seems the main reason for you striking was the fact that MTP is not going to be contractual? I was under the impression that as MTP is going to replace variable pay that it would become contractual. In fact Bill Francis addressed this very issue in his last ESS Forum web chat dated 3rd May 2010. And in his own words stated that it IS going to be contractual.
It was intended to give us reassurance about how much we would earn in the future with the arrival of new fleet. It will also increase in line with inflation.
Please go onto the web chat and have a look. There were many posts regarding this and a load of other issues but I think post nbr 130 will hopefully give you the assurance you need regarding MTP?
Hope it helps?
P.S. If that is the only reason you went on strike, I would have very strong words with the Managers that misled you.
I thought your post made very interesting reading and it's always good to hear a reasoned argument as to why someone went on strike.
In your post it seems the main reason for you striking was the fact that MTP is not going to be contractual? I was under the impression that as MTP is going to replace variable pay that it would become contractual. In fact Bill Francis addressed this very issue in his last ESS Forum web chat dated 3rd May 2010. And in his own words stated that it IS going to be contractual.
It was intended to give us reassurance about how much we would earn in the future with the arrival of new fleet. It will also increase in line with inflation.
Please go onto the web chat and have a look. There were many posts regarding this and a load of other issues but I think post nbr 130 will hopefully give you the assurance you need regarding MTP?
Hope it helps?
P.S. If that is the only reason you went on strike, I would have very strong words with the Managers that misled you.
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Chigley
Thank you for that. Yes, I have now seen the post you refer to. I'm suprised I missed it, as of course, I asked questions myself of Bill that day and thought I had already read all the posts and answers.
I shall ask for clarification as to how I could be given the wrong information at such a critical time.
I wouldn't say it was my ONLY reason for striking, but certainly the central one.
I shall ask for clarification as to how I could be given the wrong information at such a critical time.
I wouldn't say it was my ONLY reason for striking, but certainly the central one.