British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Could someone who knows the situation in BA explain to us interested observers what function and influence the Professional Cabin Crew Council have on the present negotiantions? There is a spokesperson (Suzy) having her say on Radio 5 Live right now as I write. She is of the opinion that the whole strike call and Unite's position are not in the best interest of the Cabin Crew, let alone BAs. She seems to have a fairly accurate handle on the situation and the Cabin Crew who have also spoken on air so far have quite obviously been misled by BASSA and Unite if what Suzy says is true.
So just who is telling it like it is?
So just who is telling it like it is?
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Flybymerchant
How says I am not balanced -
http://www.bis.gov.uk/files/file18013.pdf
Ouch, with a very big capital O.
http://www.bis.gov.uk/files/file18013.pdf
Ouch, with a very big capital O.
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This dispute is over bar the shouting...
Any crew who went on strike now have NO protection from dismissal. If Unite threaten a new ballot, BA will tell them they intend to dismiss all 2500 strikers. Without these people do you think Unite will get a positive outcome in the ballot?
If they are sacked, they will also be able to sue Unite for misrepresentation.
Unite have nowhere left to go...
Any crew who went on strike now have NO protection from dismissal. If Unite threaten a new ballot, BA will tell them they intend to dismiss all 2500 strikers. Without these people do you think Unite will get a positive outcome in the ballot?
If they are sacked, they will also be able to sue Unite for misrepresentation.
Unite have nowhere left to go...
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I'd go for Suzys version. Even today, BASSA are refusing to comment officially on yesterdays result (pending this afternoons possible appeal) but are giving the 'nod and wink' to members who are peddling completely innaccurate accounts of yesterdays court proceedings. BASSA simply cannot stop themselves from lying.
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recruitment ...
I think this could now tie in with the Willies presentation at Waterside last week, when he said they were looking at CC recruitment again now. I am sure he knew the court case was coming then ....
If the company decides that its best to 'let go' the strikers (which is a hard move - but probably IMHO, a very good one as it will get rid of the militants who will never really want the best for BA/always have a chip on their shoulder). Many of them are probably the high earners as well. It could bring a breath of fresh air through the airline with strikers not judging non strikers. Oh, and the 'ONE TEAM" approach would stand a better chance of working .... customers i am sure would notice this and BA would be stronger for it.
I know there will be some that say the 'militants' are generally very nice people - well, yes, but not all of them are and numerous CC have been out of order in numerous ways during the last 12 months. I think a clean slate would be appreciated by most of BA and our customers.
If this did happen, i am sure the amount of volunteers/part timers could cover the shortfaul whilst the NEW Fleet is recruited (whenever the earliest that can be). bear in mind c.3000 strikers (does anyone really know the exact number?!) would not be hard to replace with some new working practices and some goodwill from current part timers....
I have had enough of my holidays and work being disrupted by this :- "malevolent union" (quote from one of BA's big shareholders, Standard chartered? maybe, who own 7% of BA, on Radio 4 yesterday 6.15am)
watch this space ... any news from the BASSA forum today ?
If the company decides that its best to 'let go' the strikers (which is a hard move - but probably IMHO, a very good one as it will get rid of the militants who will never really want the best for BA/always have a chip on their shoulder). Many of them are probably the high earners as well. It could bring a breath of fresh air through the airline with strikers not judging non strikers. Oh, and the 'ONE TEAM" approach would stand a better chance of working .... customers i am sure would notice this and BA would be stronger for it.
I know there will be some that say the 'militants' are generally very nice people - well, yes, but not all of them are and numerous CC have been out of order in numerous ways during the last 12 months. I think a clean slate would be appreciated by most of BA and our customers.
If this did happen, i am sure the amount of volunteers/part timers could cover the shortfaul whilst the NEW Fleet is recruited (whenever the earliest that can be). bear in mind c.3000 strikers (does anyone really know the exact number?!) would not be hard to replace with some new working practices and some goodwill from current part timers....
I have had enough of my holidays and work being disrupted by this :- "malevolent union" (quote from one of BA's big shareholders, Standard chartered? maybe, who own 7% of BA, on Radio 4 yesterday 6.15am)
watch this space ... any news from the BASSA forum today ?
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Interesting point about the illegality of the strike is that should it be upheld by the CoA today, then the strikers will have been on an illegal strike and would have lost the protections of the law wrt to dismissal being automatically deemed illegal. The breach of contract would have been an individual act and so BA could decide whom it wished to sack. They could cherry pick those they wish to get rid of. Instead of sacking everyone they could just sack those who were on strike for the whole period of the last strikes, ie both the 3 and 4 day strikes. Anyone who went on strike for some of the period could be spared, allowing the most militant strikers to be got rid of. BASSA and UNITE have really screwed up on this one.
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To say that the previous strike is unlawful is simply not true.
The injunction has been granted on account of the 20 day strike.
AI: it hasn't been PROVEN yet (in a full court case) that the previous strike was illegal.
Sure, there is a strong case for it and as a Union I sure as hell wouldn't want to fight that battle but as for now, the previous strike is deemed 'legal'.
Now what I think will happen and this is being aluded to with statements from Walsh in the papers is that there is a slow wedge driven in between the UNITE union and BASSA shop stewards who have been crying for guerilla tactics.
With the huge potential case overhead UNITE will cut BASSA loose to sink or swim (Sink in this case) as part of an A$$ saving deal with BA.
So I repeat, if they sack 2500 crew from the march strikes atm that would still be unlawful dismissal until proven that strike was illegal. Judge hasn't made a judgement on that!
I think it's game/set and match BA if the appeal gets turned down today.
Woodley already stated they had an agreement in principal and it will be ratified as soon as the Union clears up their BASSA branch.
Unfortunate though, I'd rather see those berks leave the company and have a fresh 'One Team' approach.
The injunction has been granted on account of the 20 day strike.
AI: it hasn't been PROVEN yet (in a full court case) that the previous strike was illegal.
Sure, there is a strong case for it and as a Union I sure as hell wouldn't want to fight that battle but as for now, the previous strike is deemed 'legal'.
Now what I think will happen and this is being aluded to with statements from Walsh in the papers is that there is a slow wedge driven in between the UNITE union and BASSA shop stewards who have been crying for guerilla tactics.
With the huge potential case overhead UNITE will cut BASSA loose to sink or swim (Sink in this case) as part of an A$$ saving deal with BA.
So I repeat, if they sack 2500 crew from the march strikes atm that would still be unlawful dismissal until proven that strike was illegal. Judge hasn't made a judgement on that!
I think it's game/set and match BA if the appeal gets turned down today.
Woodley already stated they had an agreement in principal and it will be ratified as soon as the Union clears up their BASSA branch.
Unfortunate though, I'd rather see those berks leave the company and have a fresh 'One Team' approach.
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Willie Wash in Todays Times
I take this to be setting up the dismissal of the strikers (if you can run 100% of services why bother with the troublemakers?) unless BASSA agree fully now - what do others think?
-------------------
Willie Walsh wrote a column on the industrial relations situation in this morning’s Times.
In it, he spoke of his delight for our customers that the unjustified threat of a 20-day strike against British Airways was quashed by the High Court yesterday, before outlining his thoughts on the dispute itself.
"I am absolutely delighted for our customers that Unite’s extreme and completely unjustified threat of a 20-day strike against British Airways was quashed by the High Court yesterday. What would have been the longest strike at a major UK employer for a quarter of a century was an absurdly disproportionate response to the changes we are making to cabin crew operations as we strive to return to profitability.
Reprieve
"However, I am very conscious that the court has done no more than provide a reprieve. We still have to reach a resolution to this dispute. We have spent 15 months talking to Unite and its cabin crew branch, the British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association (Bassa), about the need to find more efficient ways of working. Almost a year ago we successfully concluded similar discussions with our pilots and engineers, and had already cut our manager numbers by a third.
"Our package for cabin crew is very fair, especially in view of the fact that we have lost hundreds of millions of pounds over the past two years in the worst recession the airline industry has known. We have met both the needs of our business and the genuine concerns of crew members."
Permanent savings
"In achieving permanent savings, we have carefully avoided compulsory redundancies. Instead, we have provided voluntary packages for those wanting to leave the company, allowed more crew to work part-time, and brought onboard crew numbers on flights from Heathrow into line with those at Gatwick. We have provided extra assurances that when we recruit new crew in the future, existing crew will have promotion opportunities and fair access to the most desirable routes.
"We have offered rises in basic pay in the coming two years that would be gratefully seized by many employees in other parts of the economy. And, uniquely among UK airlines, we continue to pay incremental salary rises to a large majority of crew. Under our proposals, existing crew will remain easily the best rewarded in the UK industry.
"We have provided an undertaking that there will be no victimisation arising from this dispute. And, to the annoyance of many thousands of our dedicated employees, we have offered to reinstate staff travel for cabin crew who went on strike in March.
"Over the weekend, Unite’s joint general secretary, Tony Woodley, described our offer as an “agreement in principle”. I respect Tony. But it has become abundantly clear that he and Unite’s co-leader Derek Simpson cannot deliver an agreement — because Bassa’s committee and shop stewards do not support them."
Ballot
"Bassa’s organisers do not accept there is any agreement in principle. In the face of Tony’s words, they have just issued a detailed criticism of our offer.
"Even if the 20-day strike had gone ahead, they were planning another ballot so they could continue disruption later in the year. They talk openly of a long “guerrilla campaign” designed to undermine customers’ faith in British Airways and inflict as much commercial damage as possible.
"This is an extraordinary position for a group of trade unionists to take. They positively relish the prospect of a prolonged attack on the customers and business that provide their members with well-rewarded jobs, generous pensions and enviable lifestyles. And they have no concern for the possible consequences of their campaign for thousands of members of Unite and other trade unionists employed in different parts of BA."
World has changed
"In other words, the obstacle to the resolution of this dispute is the refusal of this small group of Bassa hardliners to accept that the world has changed.
"To Bassa, we are still in the 1970s: British Airways is nationalised, facing little competition and ever ready to do a cosy deal with the unions knowing the taxpayer will pick up the tab.
"Nearly everything harmful about that culture has now disappeared at BA — apart from the legacy of a hard core of union activists who think they have a right to control day-to-day cabin crew operations.
"The Bassa reactionaries do not care about our customers, colleagues in other departments or even their own members. What they care about is preserving the appearance of their own importance. So Bassa cannot countenance a deal that involves permanent change. They cannot accept management’s duty to manage in the interests of our customers, all our employees and our shareholders.
"The Bassa tail is wagging the Unite dog. I urge Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson to assert their authority and address this situation. The vast bulk of their 20,000 members at BA urgently want them to do so. These include the thousands of regular cabin crew who ignored the strike calls in March and, if necessary, will do so again to help us to keep the airline flying.
"During the last strike, we flew more than 80 per cent of our customers. I am considering plans to raise that number towards 100 per cent should the need arise.I sincerely hope it does not. Unite’s leaders must act."
-------------------
Willie Walsh wrote a column on the industrial relations situation in this morning’s Times.
In it, he spoke of his delight for our customers that the unjustified threat of a 20-day strike against British Airways was quashed by the High Court yesterday, before outlining his thoughts on the dispute itself.
"I am absolutely delighted for our customers that Unite’s extreme and completely unjustified threat of a 20-day strike against British Airways was quashed by the High Court yesterday. What would have been the longest strike at a major UK employer for a quarter of a century was an absurdly disproportionate response to the changes we are making to cabin crew operations as we strive to return to profitability.
Reprieve
"However, I am very conscious that the court has done no more than provide a reprieve. We still have to reach a resolution to this dispute. We have spent 15 months talking to Unite and its cabin crew branch, the British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association (Bassa), about the need to find more efficient ways of working. Almost a year ago we successfully concluded similar discussions with our pilots and engineers, and had already cut our manager numbers by a third.
"Our package for cabin crew is very fair, especially in view of the fact that we have lost hundreds of millions of pounds over the past two years in the worst recession the airline industry has known. We have met both the needs of our business and the genuine concerns of crew members."
Permanent savings
"In achieving permanent savings, we have carefully avoided compulsory redundancies. Instead, we have provided voluntary packages for those wanting to leave the company, allowed more crew to work part-time, and brought onboard crew numbers on flights from Heathrow into line with those at Gatwick. We have provided extra assurances that when we recruit new crew in the future, existing crew will have promotion opportunities and fair access to the most desirable routes.
"We have offered rises in basic pay in the coming two years that would be gratefully seized by many employees in other parts of the economy. And, uniquely among UK airlines, we continue to pay incremental salary rises to a large majority of crew. Under our proposals, existing crew will remain easily the best rewarded in the UK industry.
"We have provided an undertaking that there will be no victimisation arising from this dispute. And, to the annoyance of many thousands of our dedicated employees, we have offered to reinstate staff travel for cabin crew who went on strike in March.
"Over the weekend, Unite’s joint general secretary, Tony Woodley, described our offer as an “agreement in principle”. I respect Tony. But it has become abundantly clear that he and Unite’s co-leader Derek Simpson cannot deliver an agreement — because Bassa’s committee and shop stewards do not support them."
Ballot
"Bassa’s organisers do not accept there is any agreement in principle. In the face of Tony’s words, they have just issued a detailed criticism of our offer.
"Even if the 20-day strike had gone ahead, they were planning another ballot so they could continue disruption later in the year. They talk openly of a long “guerrilla campaign” designed to undermine customers’ faith in British Airways and inflict as much commercial damage as possible.
"This is an extraordinary position for a group of trade unionists to take. They positively relish the prospect of a prolonged attack on the customers and business that provide their members with well-rewarded jobs, generous pensions and enviable lifestyles. And they have no concern for the possible consequences of their campaign for thousands of members of Unite and other trade unionists employed in different parts of BA."
World has changed
"In other words, the obstacle to the resolution of this dispute is the refusal of this small group of Bassa hardliners to accept that the world has changed.
"To Bassa, we are still in the 1970s: British Airways is nationalised, facing little competition and ever ready to do a cosy deal with the unions knowing the taxpayer will pick up the tab.
"Nearly everything harmful about that culture has now disappeared at BA — apart from the legacy of a hard core of union activists who think they have a right to control day-to-day cabin crew operations.
"The Bassa reactionaries do not care about our customers, colleagues in other departments or even their own members. What they care about is preserving the appearance of their own importance. So Bassa cannot countenance a deal that involves permanent change. They cannot accept management’s duty to manage in the interests of our customers, all our employees and our shareholders.
"The Bassa tail is wagging the Unite dog. I urge Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson to assert their authority and address this situation. The vast bulk of their 20,000 members at BA urgently want them to do so. These include the thousands of regular cabin crew who ignored the strike calls in March and, if necessary, will do so again to help us to keep the airline flying.
"During the last strike, we flew more than 80 per cent of our customers. I am considering plans to raise that number towards 100 per cent should the need arise.I sincerely hope it does not. Unite’s leaders must act."
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Arthur Scargill (2973)
Just because crew are anti-strike does not necessarily mean they have to despise their union either (though many do).
Mizz Liz HoMalone's call to BALPA to "Foxtrot Oscar" was the beginning of a misbegotten and completely mismanaged campaign. She and her accomplices have now painted themselves into a corner from which they have absolutely no way out.
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Shaka Zulu
I think you have missed the judgement here - the judge has ruled on the February ballot results, which was the basis on the March strikes. Thus the march strikes (assuming the appeal fails today) were also illegal and potentially leaves strikers very open to the jobcentre.
The recent ballot was no more than a straw pole and has no relevance in law - it was just for the Union propaganda basis (as they knew that anyone left in the union would still be favouring their point of view, whilst if people generally didn't they have resigned)
I think you have missed the judgement here - the judge has ruled on the February ballot results, which was the basis on the March strikes. Thus the march strikes (assuming the appeal fails today) were also illegal and potentially leaves strikers very open to the jobcentre.
The recent ballot was no more than a straw pole and has no relevance in law - it was just for the Union propaganda basis (as they knew that anyone left in the union would still be favouring their point of view, whilst if people generally didn't they have resigned)
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Eddy,
It's decent of you to stand up for Lizanne and I truly don't doubt that she does love crew and, in a retro kind of way, the airline too. The problem is that she appears, to the wider airline, to demonstrate that love by broadsiding every other staff group (flight crew in particular) whenever something isn't going BASSA's way. I think that's probably why you'll find there's a great deal of opprobrium towards her.
MrB
It's decent of you to stand up for Lizanne and I truly don't doubt that she does love crew and, in a retro kind of way, the airline too. The problem is that she appears, to the wider airline, to demonstrate that love by broadsiding every other staff group (flight crew in particular) whenever something isn't going BASSA's way. I think that's probably why you'll find there's a great deal of opprobrium towards her.
MrB
Classic defence mechanism - you balls something up, you find a target to vent your frustration/rage.
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Flybymerchant (#2991)
he wants to keep public and cc alike onside to a certain degree
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BASSA Top Brass Should Resign
I have been disgusted by the negative campaign run by the BASSA top brass throughout this saga.
They have been happy to place the company at great risk, to cause us to lose many passengers, to consistently lie to us, and to denigrate so many of their colleagues. They have also led their colleagues into a strike, which was probably unlawfull, leaving crew members open to dismissal, and a possible damages bill as well.
They can blame no one else but themselves with the failure to follow correct ballot procedure. I seem to recall one or two reps having the cheek to state in the High Court in February that they were studying Law.
It is time that Malone, Stott, Deveraux and others admitted that their incompitence and resign. Surely enough is enough?
They have been happy to place the company at great risk, to cause us to lose many passengers, to consistently lie to us, and to denigrate so many of their colleagues. They have also led their colleagues into a strike, which was probably unlawfull, leaving crew members open to dismissal, and a possible damages bill as well.
They can blame no one else but themselves with the failure to follow correct ballot procedure. I seem to recall one or two reps having the cheek to state in the High Court in February that they were studying Law.
It is time that Malone, Stott, Deveraux and others admitted that their incompitence and resign. Surely enough is enough?
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Bearing in mind that Ms Malone receives around £100 per day for her BASSA 'work' its in her interests to keep this union going. Perhaps if it no longer exists she will have to go back to work. Is she still living in California with a bad foot!!!
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Workers Climate Action
Saturday 22 May – support the BA workers’ struggle and the right to strike with The Flying Bike Picket! Workers' Climate Action
The words have a ring of BASSA about them don't you think?
Does anyone else find it ironic that a Climate Action Group have an advertisement for NetJets at the bottom of the page. Hyprocite? Moi?
The words have a ring of BASSA about them don't you think?
Does anyone else find it ironic that a Climate Action Group have an advertisement for NetJets at the bottom of the page. Hyprocite? Moi?
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According to Derek Simpson, on skynews, they are only having a hearing today to find out if they can appeal. Only then, they will find out if they can appeal.
Apparently they (the union, only made a "minor" error.
well..... that's OK then!
Apparently they (the union, only made a "minor" error.
well..... that's OK then!
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Dismissals are now available to BA, if they choose, for all crew who took part in unprotected industrial action (about 2000)
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Fox3Maddog
Yep! There are certain procedural steps which must be followed to allow a ballot to be legal, and to give the workers balloted the legal protections.
If those procedural steps are not followed, then there is no legal protection.
If I can find the requisite guidance on the web, surely the BASSA Top Brass should have been able to as well?
Yep! There are certain procedural steps which must be followed to allow a ballot to be legal, and to give the workers balloted the legal protections.
If those procedural steps are not followed, then there is no legal protection.
If I can find the requisite guidance on the web, surely the BASSA Top Brass should have been able to as well?
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Am I missing something here? Can these crew really be dismissed for having taken part in IA that they understood to be legal at the time, but has been subsequently proved to be illegal after the event? Surely it is the union who must bear the brunt of retributions given it was their c**k up?
Moreover, although there might be limits to the amount that an employer can sue a union for, I don't believe there are any limits to the amount a union member can sue his or her own union for.