British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Lots of speculation here with regards to the consequences for crew that have already been on strike, who knows.
As far as crew seeking recompense from the union is concerned remember that the message "if you take part in a strike or other industrial action, you may be in breach of your contract of employment." was clearly included on the ballot paper which crew recieved. Fair warning was issued therefore.
Striking carries a risk, fair or not.
As far as crew seeking recompense from the union is concerned remember that the message "if you take part in a strike or other industrial action, you may be in breach of your contract of employment." was clearly included on the ballot paper which crew recieved. Fair warning was issued therefore.
Striking carries a risk, fair or not.
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sackings..
I would'nt wish anyone to lose their job, but hey, these are people that are keen to jeapordise our career/retirement...they've demonstrated absolute disloyalty in the process..I won't be reaching for the kleenex that's for sure..!!!
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From what I understand there has been agreement reached but the sticking point is now to reinstate staff travel which WW has agreed to and re-instating sacked staff. On the latter every company has a policy which covers instant dismissal or letters of warning leading to disciplinary action.
With instant dismissal there has to be very good reasons for doing so - you can't just sack someone today the laws protect the employee - therefore unless BA want to see themselves in court they will have had excellent reasons for gross misconduct - bullying being one of them. They must also have witnesses attesting to this.
I am sure they have covered the letter of the law and if these people have truly bullied and harrassed non striking CC staff then they deserve everything they get.
To me, its just another excuse to strike - if WW agrees to reinstate these people then they will just find something else to strike about - they seem intent in bringing the downfall of BA and they should be stopped - CC its time you started voting with your heads - otherwise soon you won't have anything to vote for.
With instant dismissal there has to be very good reasons for doing so - you can't just sack someone today the laws protect the employee - therefore unless BA want to see themselves in court they will have had excellent reasons for gross misconduct - bullying being one of them. They must also have witnesses attesting to this.
I am sure they have covered the letter of the law and if these people have truly bullied and harrassed non striking CC staff then they deserve everything they get.
To me, its just another excuse to strike - if WW agrees to reinstate these people then they will just find something else to strike about - they seem intent in bringing the downfall of BA and they should be stopped - CC its time you started voting with your heads - otherwise soon you won't have anything to vote for.
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So it was the BASSA reps to blame, and not Unite?
A very interesting comment to Gregor Gall's op-ed piece in the Guardian today. Not something I've seen mentioned on here before:
If that is true, then it puts a different slant on the culpability of BASSA in this embarrassing episode. Bit more time in the TULRA books indeed, and a bit less time whooping and hollering over the result, maybe?
AnnAthema
18 May 2010, 1:38PM
Just a small point of public record from the court case yesterday worth highlighting; after the result was received by Unite from the scrutineers it was passed to the BASSA branch for dissemination to their members. It was commented in court on how the result was up on notice boards at BA's Crew Report Centre within an hour of it being released to Unite, similar time-frame for text messaging, and the weblink was created by a rep named Marley. Technically speaking, the buck should stop at the Branch Secretary or Chairman's door as the responsible officers.
Therefore, strictly speaking, the errors in passing the information to the membership were those of the officers of the BASSA branch, and NOT Unite. Perhaps a bit more time spent studying TULRA in future for BASSA? They have let their membership down quite dramatically by making simple errors where they should have ensured they were absolutely watertight.
The right to strike is fundamental, but the responsibilities of the Union, or in this case, the BASSA branch, seem to have been somewhat misplaced in this dispute. No-one to blame but themselves, really.
18 May 2010, 1:38PM
Just a small point of public record from the court case yesterday worth highlighting; after the result was received by Unite from the scrutineers it was passed to the BASSA branch for dissemination to their members. It was commented in court on how the result was up on notice boards at BA's Crew Report Centre within an hour of it being released to Unite, similar time-frame for text messaging, and the weblink was created by a rep named Marley. Technically speaking, the buck should stop at the Branch Secretary or Chairman's door as the responsible officers.
Therefore, strictly speaking, the errors in passing the information to the membership were those of the officers of the BASSA branch, and NOT Unite. Perhaps a bit more time spent studying TULRA in future for BASSA? They have let their membership down quite dramatically by making simple errors where they should have ensured they were absolutely watertight.
The right to strike is fundamental, but the responsibilities of the Union, or in this case, the BASSA branch, seem to have been somewhat misplaced in this dispute. No-one to blame but themselves, really.
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Reading Willie's letter to the Times I think the crew should worry more about the last paragraph where he says " During the last strike, we flew more than 80 per cent of our customers. I am considering plans to raise that number towards 100 per cent should the need arise.I sincerely hope it does not."
Answers on a post card as to what they might be ...
Answers on a post card as to what they might be ...
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Posted on the BBC News website latest:
AT THE COURT
Emma Simpson Business correspondent, BBC News
The hearing is taking place in a packed small courtroom, tucked away in the east block of Royal Courts of Justice.
The big guns have been brought out to grapple with the legal arguments on this one.
The Master of the Rolls along with the Lord Chief Justice are on the panel.
So far much of this emergency session has focussed on the interpretation of section 231 of the 1992 trade union law.
It's technical, but there's a lot riding on the outcome and right now it's unclear how long this emergency application going to take.
AT THE COURT
Emma Simpson Business correspondent, BBC News
The hearing is taking place in a packed small courtroom, tucked away in the east block of Royal Courts of Justice.
The big guns have been brought out to grapple with the legal arguments on this one.
The Master of the Rolls along with the Lord Chief Justice are on the panel.
So far much of this emergency session has focussed on the interpretation of section 231 of the 1992 trade union law.
It's technical, but there's a lot riding on the outcome and right now it's unclear how long this emergency application going to take.
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In the event of the recent ballot being declared illegal by the appeal court it is being claimed UNITE can absolve themselves of any responsibility to their members by having warned them on the ballot paper that they could be in breach of their contract by taking strike action. If that is so, then the warning issued by Willie Walsh that any Cabin Crew striking would permanently lose their staff travel must have the same validity.
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Could we ever have believed that a Union that we all trusted and paid subscription fees to could have achieved the following:
A. Rejected incentive schemes (shares/bonus/free tickets that most people could only dream of) on our behalf without our consultation.
B. Created a rift between the cabin crew and every other BA department that most of us would never have thought possible.
C. Made the general public hate us.
D. Initiated New Fleet immediately by requesting crew back on planes.
E. Wasted thousands (millions?) of hardworking members' subscription fees on 3 lost court cases.
F. Accused anyone and everyone of being wrong and "out to get them" - WW, BF, PWC, BALPA, PCCC, Pilots, Scabin crew, Waterside Workers, High Court Judges, BBC et.al.
G. Rejected a Monthly Travel Payment that has huge benefits to crew.
H. And finally, unbelievably and shamefully they have led their members to strike on an ILLEGAL ballot, putting them at severe risk of dismissal.
They have achieved ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF BENEFIT TO THEIR MEMBERS and are decimating our once respected community.
Members must now reject this appalling behaviour and resign from Unite. A simple phone call to pay services is all it takes.
It is imperative now that we all stand together to reject Unite and the atrocities they have committed. It is our jobs, our futures, and our livelihoods that they are playing with.
Whether you are a striker, a non-striker or someone sitting on the fence you owe it to yourself and to your future to resign from Unite. We all need to stick together, and find a new way forward for ourselves. This is our opportunity for all of us to be one community again. Too much energy has been wasted against one another, against the pilots and against other BA colleagues. Let's turn that energy into a positive force to create a stronger, better workforce without the thorn in the side that is Unite.
Unite have now shown their true colours: a despicable Union that has achieved nothing but hatred for us. Appallingly, they have now even put their own members at risk of dismissal.
Enough is Enough! Resign from Unite immediately so that we can get our community and our company back on its feet.
The PCCC are ready, willing and capable of taking on the challenge of leading our community to a brighter future. Doing nothing is simply not an option - we all have to take responsibility for our future.
See our new website at www.mypccc.co.uk and get onboard!
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
A. Rejected incentive schemes (shares/bonus/free tickets that most people could only dream of) on our behalf without our consultation.
B. Created a rift between the cabin crew and every other BA department that most of us would never have thought possible.
C. Made the general public hate us.
D. Initiated New Fleet immediately by requesting crew back on planes.
E. Wasted thousands (millions?) of hardworking members' subscription fees on 3 lost court cases.
F. Accused anyone and everyone of being wrong and "out to get them" - WW, BF, PWC, BALPA, PCCC, Pilots, Scabin crew, Waterside Workers, High Court Judges, BBC et.al.
G. Rejected a Monthly Travel Payment that has huge benefits to crew.
H. And finally, unbelievably and shamefully they have led their members to strike on an ILLEGAL ballot, putting them at severe risk of dismissal.
They have achieved ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF BENEFIT TO THEIR MEMBERS and are decimating our once respected community.
Members must now reject this appalling behaviour and resign from Unite. A simple phone call to pay services is all it takes.
It is imperative now that we all stand together to reject Unite and the atrocities they have committed. It is our jobs, our futures, and our livelihoods that they are playing with.
Whether you are a striker, a non-striker or someone sitting on the fence you owe it to yourself and to your future to resign from Unite. We all need to stick together, and find a new way forward for ourselves. This is our opportunity for all of us to be one community again. Too much energy has been wasted against one another, against the pilots and against other BA colleagues. Let's turn that energy into a positive force to create a stronger, better workforce without the thorn in the side that is Unite.
Unite have now shown their true colours: a despicable Union that has achieved nothing but hatred for us. Appallingly, they have now even put their own members at risk of dismissal.
Enough is Enough! Resign from Unite immediately so that we can get our community and our company back on its feet.
The PCCC are ready, willing and capable of taking on the challenge of leading our community to a brighter future. Doing nothing is simply not an option - we all have to take responsibility for our future.
See our new website at www.mypccc.co.uk and get onboard!
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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As I understand it, the judgment is to whether UNITE are granted an appeal or not. If the 3 judges grant leave to appeal then it may be heard as early as Thursday almost I assume (I could be wrong) straight after the verdict.
BBC News - BA union Unite to hear appeal bid decision on Thursday
BBC News - BA union Unite to hear appeal bid decision on Thursday
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I'm not sure PornPants. The various news articles are confusing in what they are reporting.
However, if the case is to be heard, theres stil only a small chance of the result being overturned, however small the 'technicality' is. Its very rare (about 1 in 15) to get a successful appeal as generally they don't like to overturn a High Court decision. Particularly if it is a clear legal regulation and no gross miscarriage of justice has been carried out.
Where this leaves us though is anyones guess still. Roll on Thursday when we might get a bit of clarification. In the meantime, lets enjoy the sunshine.
However, if the case is to be heard, theres stil only a small chance of the result being overturned, however small the 'technicality' is. Its very rare (about 1 in 15) to get a successful appeal as generally they don't like to overturn a High Court decision. Particularly if it is a clear legal regulation and no gross miscarriage of justice has been carried out.
Where this leaves us though is anyones guess still. Roll on Thursday when we might get a bit of clarification. In the meantime, lets enjoy the sunshine.
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HF14, I have to agree with everything you have posted re this dreadful situation, with one exception - rather than place blame at the door of Unite , it really is down to BASSA, simple.
Also, why should BA stop the disciplinary process as part of any settlement? After all, some of the allegations are of a very serious nature, including a number of ongoing criminal investigations as mentioned by WW at the WTS forum. I find it appalling, a union DEMANDING that these be stopped. These processes need to be followed. Funny how the press never pick up on this.
This is my opinion, but BASSA in it's current format needs to move on, get some new blood, (adults rather than petulant children).
Also, why should BA stop the disciplinary process as part of any settlement? After all, some of the allegations are of a very serious nature, including a number of ongoing criminal investigations as mentioned by WW at the WTS forum. I find it appalling, a union DEMANDING that these be stopped. These processes need to be followed. Funny how the press never pick up on this.
This is my opinion, but BASSA in it's current format needs to move on, get some new blood, (adults rather than petulant children).
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What a load of nonsense, I suggest the "sack 'em all" mob should themselves read the TULRCA legislation. Protection is now the same as before they went on strike.
And by the way, I suggest you look up the meaning of injunction in the dictionary also, the previous strike is NOT now illegal.
And by the way, I suggest you look up the meaning of injunction in the dictionary also, the previous strike is NOT now illegal.