British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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@ deeceethree ... in any Industrial dispute, tempers get elevated. It is the inevitable result of a collision between two implacable organisations. In this particular case, a Company in semi-terminal fiscal decline is in collision with an implacable Trades Union which is apparently committed to bringing the Company to ruin.
This is, apparently, a win-win situation for the Union. The end result will, if the Union achieves its objectives, is that BA fails to recover the massive losses currently being incurred. As a result, the Company collapses, along with the living of tens of thousands of employees [direct or indirect]. The direct impact on the BASSA Executive/Council or whatever the upper echelon call themselves, is debatable. But that is still perceived to be a "Good Thing".
This is also, apparently, a win-win situation for BA. If things work out correctly, the Trades Union that has hindered any financial restructuring to save the Company may possibly become history. That may actually save tens of thousands of jobs, and possibly allow BA to re-establish itself in the upper echelon of airline carriers. The direct impact on Mr Walsh and the Board of BA will be to have achieved what they set out to do - run a profitable airline.
[I have Degrees in Rocket Science and Statements of the Obvious] OK - I may have exaggerated a bit.
This is, apparently, a win-win situation for the Union. The end result will, if the Union achieves its objectives, is that BA fails to recover the massive losses currently being incurred. As a result, the Company collapses, along with the living of tens of thousands of employees [direct or indirect]. The direct impact on the BASSA Executive/Council or whatever the upper echelon call themselves, is debatable. But that is still perceived to be a "Good Thing".
This is also, apparently, a win-win situation for BA. If things work out correctly, the Trades Union that has hindered any financial restructuring to save the Company may possibly become history. That may actually save tens of thousands of jobs, and possibly allow BA to re-establish itself in the upper echelon of airline carriers. The direct impact on Mr Walsh and the Board of BA will be to have achieved what they set out to do - run a profitable airline.
[I have Degrees in Rocket Science and Statements of the Obvious] OK - I may have exaggerated a bit.
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The letter clearly states
Therefore before you vote, I want you to be fully aware of the consequences should you vote yes and go on strike. In those circumstances, you would:
Lose staff travel permanently
Lose pay for any duties you miss if you go on strike, including associated days off
You really do need to concentrate and stop making things up
Therefore before you vote, I want you to be fully aware of the consequences should you vote yes and go on strike. In those circumstances, you would:
Lose staff travel permanently
Lose pay for any duties you miss if you go on strike, including associated days off
You really do need to concentrate and stop making things up
In real life I am not a lawyer, but have described myself from time to time as a professional pedant. My role has been to develop specifications for IT systems that are sufficiently unambiguous that multiple groups from possibly very different cultures will interpret them in the same way. The relevant parts of the letter appear to me to be a study in ambiguity. Taken literally, they can be interpreted as saying that someone who votes no but follows a majority into a strike will not lose staff travel privileges.
Bill Francis has left himself plenty of wriggle room for concessions in a "kiss and make up" period after the death of BASSA. But he may well take a hard line in the immediate aftermath.
And to think I used to have to live where I worked! This Staff Travel thing is a bit of a revelation, folks. No wonder some people are a bit excited about any potential loss of such a facility
I hope you can manage to hang on to YOUR S.T., to enable you to keep your Villa on the Riviera, whereas I won't be able to even occasionally use my Interline availability from where B.A. fear to tread.
B.A. " promises " - don't make me laugh.
Maybe B.A. should go under, at least we will all be in the same boat then.
Enjoy.
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Any other pilots out there want to file a bullying and harassment against the BASSA muppets still employed by BA?
I mean what does "look after the pilots " really mean, is that a veiled threat?
Also after BALPA threaten legal action against the news article, it was re-written with the words "foxtrot Oscar" now I know what the intent of that comment means and so will anyone else, last time I looked if I told any BA employee to "foxtrot Oscar" in work or outside it would be considered to be bullying and harassement. Maybe this could be the nail in the coffin for the kitchen fitter or the LAX resident.
I can't wait for the Newspaper article tomorrow, I might try and double their circulation by buying one.
I mean what does "look after the pilots " really mean, is that a veiled threat?
Also after BALPA threaten legal action against the news article, it was re-written with the words "foxtrot Oscar" now I know what the intent of that comment means and so will anyone else, last time I looked if I told any BA employee to "foxtrot Oscar" in work or outside it would be considered to be bullying and harassement. Maybe this could be the nail in the coffin for the kitchen fitter or the LAX resident.
I can't wait for the Newspaper article tomorrow, I might try and double their circulation by buying one.
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@ exspeedbird ... how sad. When I left my full-time professional career, I handed in my ID card and drove out of RAF Uxbridge for the last time. With nothing except my pension. No other benefits that I've ever discovered.
Good luck to you and the Unions that created your world. The rest of us live in reality. Cheers, Skipper.
Good luck to you and the Unions that created your world. The rest of us live in reality. Cheers, Skipper.
Last edited by Two-Tone-Blue; 22nd Jan 2010 at 19:43. Reason: Refined expression, I suppose. Others may disagree.
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Guardian
Guardian take on the letter! all quotes and nothing too bad in there...
Striking BA cabin crew will lose travel perks | Business | guardian.co.uk
Striking BA cabin crew will lose travel perks | Business | guardian.co.uk
......... No other benefits that I've ever discovered.
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Maddie Baddie (sorry, I still don't know how to quote from another post 
) but I applaud you.
The forums are still full of the same old, same old spouting "we love you Lala"...type of brain-washed rhetoric.
One day, a study will be done of how a mass of people were hypnotised by these forums and believed such tripe but it will be sadly at the cost of a really (on the whole) decent bunch of employees.
) but I applaud you.The forums are still full of the same old, same old spouting "we love you Lala"...type of brain-washed rhetoric.
One day, a study will be done of how a mass of people were hypnotised by these forums and believed such tripe but it will be sadly at the cost of a really (on the whole) decent bunch of employees.
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Uk Terror Threat Raised To Severe
This is something that all of us need to be aware of. Please take extra care as you go about your duties. Stay safe!
"The UK terror threat level is being raised from "substantial" to "severe", Home Secretary Alan Johnson has said. The new alert level means a terrorist attack is considered "highly likely"."
BBC News - UK terrorist threat level raised to 'severe'
"The UK terror threat level is being raised from "substantial" to "severe", Home Secretary Alan Johnson has said. The new alert level means a terrorist attack is considered "highly likely"."
BBC News - UK terrorist threat level raised to 'severe'
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Look, BA are not going to remove staff travel concessions from those who go to work. They might make decisions people disagree with, but they aren't completely stupid. The last thing they're going to do is shaft those who come to work.
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Tunbridge Wells
Look at CF it's the same old people spouting the same old rubbish.
It's all propoganda anyway.They have 2 or 3 user names each to make out there are more of them thinking the same way.
Go on there and say Bassa are rubbish and a waste of money and see how long a ban you get.
Look at CF it's the same old people spouting the same old rubbish.
It's all propoganda anyway.They have 2 or 3 user names each to make out there are more of them thinking the same way.
Go on there and say Bassa are rubbish and a waste of money and see how long a ban you get.
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Papillon
I agree with your line of thinking,but the use of you in the letter is ambiguous and needs clarification.
I agree that BA are not stupid and would not penalise working crew but it does need an explanation.
Either meaning is a winner for BA
If you(singular) strike you lose benefits.BA Don't careYou are a striker.WIN
If you(majority)strike then every one loses.Onus on the crew to return a no vote.Battle fought amongst crew.WIN
It is a very well thought out plan.
I agree with your line of thinking,but the use of you in the letter is ambiguous and needs clarification.
I agree that BA are not stupid and would not penalise working crew but it does need an explanation.
Either meaning is a winner for BA
If you(singular) strike you lose benefits.BA Don't careYou are a striker.WIN
If you(majority)strike then every one loses.Onus on the crew to return a no vote.Battle fought amongst crew.WIN
It is a very well thought out plan.
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617 sqn - I suspect you're right. If anyone dares have a different point of view from these Stepford Wives, they are accussed of being a pilot or a management toady
It's horrific - nice people sleepwalking into a precipice
(and shame on some of those ex-crew who are egging them on - easy to do when you're drawing a pension and have nothing to lose
)
It's horrific - nice people sleepwalking into a precipice
(and shame on some of those ex-crew who are egging them on - easy to do when you're drawing a pension and have nothing to lose
)
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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If you(singular) strikes you lose benefits.BA Don't care you are a striker.WIN
If you(majority)strike then every one loses.Onus on the crew to return a no vote.Battle fought amongst crew.WIN
It is a very well thought out plan.
If you(majority)strike then every one loses.Onus on the crew to return a no vote.Battle fought amongst crew.WIN
It is a very well thought out plan.
No doubt Lurker will get suitable clarification of the email at that point.
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Latest crap from BASSA.
ACTION ALERT
BRITISH AIRWAYS
CABIN CREW
Unions at British Airways condemn
attempts to recruit strike breakers
Unite and the GMB have called on all
workers at British Airways to reject the
company's call for strike breakers and
to think twice before falling into the
vicious trap being set by the BA to not
only undermine a lawful trade dispute
involving our cabin crew colleagues,
but to identify weaknesses in other
work groups to be exploited to the full
at a later date.
Whilst BA would wish you to believe that you
would be ‘backing BA’ in volunteering to ‘keep the
airline flying’ during any potential dispute there is
a more sinister game being played out here.
BA have been trying for over a year now to find ways
of restructuring their operations, driving cost from
the business and remodelling industrial relations.
During this period that have reached agreement in
two areas; engineering and flight deck;
The flight deck reached agreement on the
saving of £26 million while in engineering
three agreements where consolidated into
one.
There are no agreements with our; GSS,
‘A’ Scale or Cabin Crew Communities.
The company are seeking £127 million of saving
from Cabin Crew; 2000 redundancies, changes to
work organisation and an end to relationships and
collective agreements that we have held with the
company for many years.
Despite our best collective efforts no agreement
has yet been reached with the company but we
will continue to talk despite their imposition of
change in November 2009.
Proposals have been tabled by Unite that
meet the company 90% of the way, still the
company want 100% of the cake and a little
more.
Your colleagues in cabin crew have voted by 92%
to support a negotiated settlement with an 80%
turnout. Ruled unlawful by a judge, Unite are now
reballoting while continuing to talk but instead of
BA using this time and their best efforts to resolve
issues between us they, they choose to plunge
huge resources into establishing a strike breaking
force. WHY?
They want your job in your area and you will
be showing them that it is excess to requirements!
They want your pension benefits!
They want your Redeployment agreement
and careerlink protections!
They want complete flexibility and operational
freedom, trade unions that accept their ‘right to
manage’, performance pay, few career prospects
and a low cost new workforce!
It suits them right now to develop mistrust and
resentment as they plan their attacks; if successful
at breaking cabin crew how long do you think it
will be before they come for you!
It’s not just about trade union principles,
it’s your own self interest you need to
think about!
Steve Turner Mick Rix
Unite GMBgl
ACTION ALERT
BRITISH AIRWAYS
CABIN CREW
Unions at British Airways condemn
attempts to recruit strike breakers
Unite and the GMB have called on all
workers at British Airways to reject the
company's call for strike breakers and
to think twice before falling into the
vicious trap being set by the BA to not
only undermine a lawful trade dispute
involving our cabin crew colleagues,
but to identify weaknesses in other
work groups to be exploited to the full
at a later date.
Whilst BA would wish you to believe that you
would be ‘backing BA’ in volunteering to ‘keep the
airline flying’ during any potential dispute there is
a more sinister game being played out here.
BA have been trying for over a year now to find ways
of restructuring their operations, driving cost from
the business and remodelling industrial relations.
During this period that have reached agreement in
two areas; engineering and flight deck;
The flight deck reached agreement on the
saving of £26 million while in engineering
three agreements where consolidated into
one.
There are no agreements with our; GSS,
‘A’ Scale or Cabin Crew Communities.
The company are seeking £127 million of saving
from Cabin Crew; 2000 redundancies, changes to
work organisation and an end to relationships and
collective agreements that we have held with the
company for many years.
Despite our best collective efforts no agreement
has yet been reached with the company but we
will continue to talk despite their imposition of
change in November 2009.
Proposals have been tabled by Unite that
meet the company 90% of the way, still the
company want 100% of the cake and a little
more.
Your colleagues in cabin crew have voted by 92%
to support a negotiated settlement with an 80%
turnout. Ruled unlawful by a judge, Unite are now
reballoting while continuing to talk but instead of
BA using this time and their best efforts to resolve
issues between us they, they choose to plunge
huge resources into establishing a strike breaking
force. WHY?
They want your job in your area and you will
be showing them that it is excess to requirements!
They want your pension benefits!
They want your Redeployment agreement
and careerlink protections!
They want complete flexibility and operational
freedom, trade unions that accept their ‘right to
manage’, performance pay, few career prospects
and a low cost new workforce!
It suits them right now to develop mistrust and
resentment as they plan their attacks; if successful
at breaking cabin crew how long do you think it
will be before they come for you!
It’s not just about trade union principles,
it’s your own self interest you need to
think about!
Steve Turner Mick Rix
Unite GMBgl
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A BA captain who retired in 1990 (which would be the case if you were presently aged 75) would in all probability be on a six-figure pension. I'm sure it is well-earned. I'm not sure though of the advisability of posting on a thread whinging about the great wrong you have been done re. staff travel when people here are fearing for their futures.
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Thanks all for helping me quote a post!
It would be good to see Bassa apologise for their claims against Balpa's participation in setting up a page on Balpa's forum to register interest to become temp cabin crew -
not holding my breath
Unfortunately it would appear that BASSA have reached terminal velocity on this issue - whatever BA does or says infuriates the cabin crew even more.. I don't see an easy way out of this unless Unite pulls the plug on BASSA.. very unlikely!
not holding my breath
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617spn
Not sure if they have 2 to 3 user names as they would not allow it - tempting thought though - at least some (or one or two) - have a picture of themselves as an avatar - which gives some seriousness to the discussion - others are hiding behind ridicilous user names.
Look at CF it's the same old people spouting the same old rubbish.
It's all propoganda anyway.They have 2 or 3 user names each to make out there are more of them thinking the same way.
Go on there and say Bassa are rubbish and a waste of money and see how long a ban you get.
It's all propoganda anyway.They have 2 or 3 user names each to make out there are more of them thinking the same way.
Go on there and say Bassa are rubbish and a waste of money and see how long a ban you get.
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How about voting "NO" and then leaving Unite?
I'm one of the disillusioned Unite CC members.
I have also been banned from CF as I asked a few questions and questioned Unite's actions / non actions.
I will be withdrawing my Membership.
But before that I would like to vote "NO" as I think every "NO" vote will be valuable if we want to make (or try to make) a difference. So I don't want to waste this opportunity.
I have some questions that some of you might know the answers to.
If I vote "NO" and withdraw my membership the day after, what would be the consequences? Will Unite know who I was and not take my "NO" into account?
Would that make strike "illegal" as in theory I wouldn't be a member any more?
Another thought:
Regardless of what I vote for, if I'm on days off / leave / sick / maternity during the strike, how would BA know which way I voted? This is to do with who they'd take the ST benefits away from if not everyobody.
I have also been banned from CF as I asked a few questions and questioned Unite's actions / non actions.
I will be withdrawing my Membership.
But before that I would like to vote "NO" as I think every "NO" vote will be valuable if we want to make (or try to make) a difference. So I don't want to waste this opportunity.
I have some questions that some of you might know the answers to.
If I vote "NO" and withdraw my membership the day after, what would be the consequences? Will Unite know who I was and not take my "NO" into account?
Would that make strike "illegal" as in theory I wouldn't be a member any more?
Another thought:
Regardless of what I vote for, if I'm on days off / leave / sick / maternity during the strike, how would BA know which way I voted? This is to do with who they'd take the ST benefits away from if not everyobody.