British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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traveling feb/march
i just returned from a trip that i booked with another airline because i was unsure about christmas strikes with ba,it was a great service.but i would like to fly ba again, and am about to book two trips for feb and march, it is very off putting to read that crew are planning another strike and that is likely to make me book with ryanair and turkish airlines once more, the food is better on turkish, and ryanair have as nice crew as BA and get you there ontime, but at the end of the day i would like to have a british airways flight ,and support our flag carrier.i really do appreciate comments from slidebustle and glamgirl who are concerned about getting passengers to their destinations after a pleasant flying experience, but after watching an ad for british airways on television tonight i found myself thinking "who would book with them? some of the heathrow crew seem to hate the passengers,(according to the internet, and it may be a vocal minority) but you never know if you will get to your destination with the constant threat of heathrow staff striking over having to work under the same conditions as gatwick staff. so...finally, if you want to keep your jobs with BA, PLEASE STOP THREATENING TO GO ON STRIKE. I dont have an inbuilt resentment of crew, and would be very happy to continue to fly with BA, i work as a prison officer and consider myself far more at risk than some of the crew who post on here, i have had a broken nose and knives waved at me, and probably get paid much less than an old contract heathrow purser. so please, think on, you have a good job and a nice life style and are driving away customers who previously had faith in the ba brand, customers, who, no disrespect work ,as hard, or harder than you,id like to support BA, dont vote to strike again and hit out at customers like me who save our very hard earned cash for a few trips a year. i know there are plenty of helpful and dedicated BA staff, when i board a plane now i am thinking which of these wants to bring company down?
Luvverley!
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I find this all really quite bewildering.
The economy as a whole is in a dreadful state. I am lucky enough to have a relatively "secure" aviation job, but I know others are not. I am willing, if needs be, to take a short-term knock to my pay/Ts&Cs to have a long-term future where I am.
Surely, in times such as these, everyone should pull together, take the lean for now and keep their heads above water? When things improve, negotiate for a bit more then. Rather that than digging your heels in the sand now, to be dragged straight to the back of the dole queue?
Those voting to strike: Maybe you are the fortunate ones who have a higher-earning spouse than yourselves. Have you even considered your colleauges who depend upon their BA salary to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table for themselves (and perhaps their families)?
Just be pragmatic.
The economy as a whole is in a dreadful state. I am lucky enough to have a relatively "secure" aviation job, but I know others are not. I am willing, if needs be, to take a short-term knock to my pay/Ts&Cs to have a long-term future where I am.
Surely, in times such as these, everyone should pull together, take the lean for now and keep their heads above water? When things improve, negotiate for a bit more then. Rather that than digging your heels in the sand now, to be dragged straight to the back of the dole queue?
Those voting to strike: Maybe you are the fortunate ones who have a higher-earning spouse than yourselves. Have you even considered your colleauges who depend upon their BA salary to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table for themselves (and perhaps their families)?
Just be pragmatic.
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HiFlyer14
We were discussing about going sick for certain trips! Don't try to twist this into something else.
MissM: Really? Do you mean like putting an X in the Yes box and then coming into work anyway? Surely not!
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MissM, I think HiFlyer was implying that certain BA crew can be on the flaky side ("If I'm there, I'm there") and there is a strong likelihood that a individual's yes vote will not be followed by strike action...
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Is BASSA a cult? Do you honestly think over 10000 people have been mislead by their union?
"Earlier this year, Unite tabled changes amounting to 140 million in savings for the business..... these were dismissed out of hand by BA's management".
We all know these two statements are lies.
Would you not call this misleading?
Source: http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/BA_cabi...imposition.pdf
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Posted by Miss M
This is a question to you, SlideBustle and Tiramisu
You are all very against BASSA and some of you probably have resigned or thinking of doing so. Are you still accepting all those different allowances and payments (i.e. CAT, LDP, MSH unless they've changed terms) which you have on EF? Because if you are maybe you should remind yourselves about who have actually negotiated these for you... You don't agree with what the union is doing but you are accepting things they have negotiated for you?
This is a question to you, SlideBustle and Tiramisu
You are all very against BASSA and some of you probably have resigned or thinking of doing so. Are you still accepting all those different allowances and payments (i.e. CAT, LDP, MSH unless they've changed terms) which you have on EF? Because if you are maybe you should remind yourselves about who have actually negotiated these for you... You don't agree with what the union is doing but you are accepting things they have negotiated for you?
May I draw you attention to the number of pages on this thread, 300 plus! That's the reason I voted No to Strike action and resigned from BASSA, Failure To Negotiate Terms and Conditions for 14,000 crew and that includes me.
As for accepting CAT payments, long day payments etc, may I remind you who my employer is and who pays my salary?
Have a guess please, it's not BASSA!
It's BRITISH AIRWAYS!
That's where my loyalty lies, Miss M.
So to answer your question, I'm extremely happy to accept all that my employer British Airways pay me.
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Still at it, ey?
How good to still see the same people going round and round in the same circles. That is dedication for ya! 
I understand the next ballot will be announced on January 18th meaning that the call for a strike will fall close to the court hearing that will decide if there is any reason to strike. The irony.
No matter what the result and/or turnout is this time, the BASSA actions have achieved what they said they were out to prevent. For those who forgot, here is a quick reminder from the Unite site:
What they wanted to prevent has now become their threat. Trivial, at best.
Remember how you sometimes get into a fight with your partner and after a while you have forgotten what the fight was actually about but now it is all about being mad?
I understand the next ballot will be announced on January 18th meaning that the call for a strike will fall close to the court hearing that will decide if there is any reason to strike. The irony.
No matter what the result and/or turnout is this time, the BASSA actions have achieved what they said they were out to prevent. For those who forgot, here is a quick reminder from the Unite site:
inevitably damage customer service and hit the brand, possibly leaving it beyond repair.
Remember how you sometimes get into a fight with your partner and after a while you have forgotten what the fight was actually about but now it is all about being mad?
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Hi Henk,
I take it you're still in OZ?
Yep, still going round in circles trying to stop some of the die hard BASSA miltants not to drag us down with them. I wish it was Trivial, it's mass suicide I'm afraid.
I take it you're still in OZ?
Yep, still going round in circles trying to stop some of the die hard BASSA miltants not to drag us down with them. I wish it was Trivial, it's mass suicide I'm afraid.
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Hey Heckybaby
Hope you're enjoying your vacation!
Bassa have announced that the ballot papers are now to be sent out on Jan 15th.
Unfortunately I fear that Bassa will push for strike action regardless of the outcome of the court hearing.
The court hearing is to decide if British Airways could impose what it believes are non-contractual changes on crew without agreement.
The Ballot is due to the fact that British Airways have imposed changes, regardless of what the changes are.
Hope you're enjoying your vacation!
Bassa have announced that the ballot papers are now to be sent out on Jan 15th.
I understand the next ballot will be announced on January 18th meaning that the call for a strike will fall close to the court hearing that will decide if there is any reason to strike. The irony.
The court hearing is to decide if British Airways could impose what it believes are non-contractual changes on crew without agreement.
The Ballot is due to the fact that British Airways have imposed changes, regardless of what the changes are.
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Ola! Yes, still in Oz. Lovely weather and so on.
Regarding the merit of the strike: if the judge rules that the changes made by BA are not contractual (that is what the court case is about) than a strike against those changes based on the current ballot proposition (that the changes are contractual and therefor BASSA should have been involved) is again illegal.
Maybe BASSA should switch (or get) legal aid?
Regarding the merit of the strike: if the judge rules that the changes made by BA are not contractual (that is what the court case is about) than a strike against those changes based on the current ballot proposition (that the changes are contractual and therefor BASSA should have been involved) is again illegal.
Maybe BASSA should switch (or get) legal aid?
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Where will it end ?
Sorry this is a bit long.......
I find this situation terribly sad for all involved in BA and those people who rely on BA for their livelihoods too (handling agents, caterers, cleaners etc etc). It is also really sad for the likes of Tiramisu, Hiflyer, Slidebustle etc who are genuinely worried about themselves, you can hear it in their posts.
I think BASSA are playing a very, very serious and very dangerous game of poker, and having tried to think through the various consequences, I can see absolutely no upside for them (and by inference their members), other than some temporarily inflated egos. Whatever the outcome, I think they have been tactically outmanouevered and made some serious errors of judgement. So:-
1. BASSA win the court case on Feb 1. As has been said:-
Willie either recruits a la new fleet to backfill the VR people and adds a degree of complexity to the business (rostering, payroll etc) - not desirable, complexity costs, but doable. When NF gets to critical mass start moving 'expensive' routes across to them.
Willie recruits new entrants onto existing Ts&Cs - not going to happen imo, he would have achieved nothing with all this upset.
Willie issues all crew with 90 days notice to terminate existing contracts, all existing crew onto new contracts, new entrants onto new fleet, no complexity as earlier - controversial in short term, but attractive. Perfectly legal, so presumably BASSA cannot threaten IA over this (not sure legally if this assumption is correct).
So BASSA will almost certainly just hasten the arrival of new fleet. Great job BASSA.
2. BA win the court case on Feb1:-
BASSA lose confidence of membership and suffer humiliation.
BA sue Unite/BASSA for damages running into millions - will this kill BASSA (and possibly Unite) ?
Where then for BASSA ?
Period of instability - Willie pushes through more change (some that could have been negotiated away), BASSA in disarray.
BASSA will have totally wrecked the opportunity for a negotiated settlement and members will pay the price. Great job BASSA.
Whatever scenario, now that brand damage has been done, forward bookings affected etc. The only way BA will regain public confidence (and bookings) is if the company can assure them that this will not happen again. The board will want Willie to numb the power of BASSA for good to achieve this confidence, even if this means that at the end of the process he is a token sacrificial lamb - he will have achieved what many others have failed to do and (assuming BA survive) will have put BA on a massively strong long term financial footing.
I cannot see, from a logical business perspective, how BA can leave BASSA unchecked ??? They are past the point of no return at this stage imo. Investors are demanding this reform.
The timing of this dispute also (I think) sucks for Unite and I think presents a real dliemma for them (not that BASSA will care). Unite bankroll the labour party and want to see them in power or at the very least limit the size of a Conservative majority. It is very much in Unite's interest to see this and they spend millions and millions to achieve that. Conservatives have introduced, in the past, legislation to curb TU power.
BA (as we just saw) along with the BBC are the most reported/press covered organisations in the country. We have seen that BASSA have pretty much zero public support with their dispute, esp with their terrible, ill conceived 12 days of Christmas message. Any dispute/potential dispute will get blanket press coverage.
This potential dispute will be just on the brink (or depending on when/if it is called and how long it lasts) could be bang in the middle of a general election campaign. P*ssed off travellers disrupted = p*ssed off voters. P*ssed off public who have lost jobs/unsympathetic to BASSA = p*ssed off voters. Guess who is supporting this - Labour's biggest donor ! Can see Messrs Brown and Mandelson's grubby hands involvement if it got to this ??
Dying Labour governments associated with industrial unrest.
Unite potentially shooting themselves in the foot on a much wider political scale.
Whatever way you look at it, all plays to BA and Willie's team.
BASSA really have pressed the nuclear button and they seriously need to eat some humble pie and try to get back to meaningful negotiation, I think they are in a really perilous position. If they don't, I can't see any way that there are any positives in this for them (and members) whatever happens.
Those who say the recession will end, yes it will. Remember though unemployment is a lag indicator and wont peak until later this year. So discretionary travel spend will still be under pressure for some time. Financial services wont ever (imo) go back to how it was and travel spend will thus be reduced.
We have yet to see the impact of higher tax rates and bankers bonuses being curbed - this may again see a reduction in travel spend. BA have a long way to go to ride out this storm - they can't go on losing 1 million pounds a day indefinitely. If it's not Willie, the next CEO needs to tackle it - you can't compete in a hugely competitive market with uncompetitive costs and poor producivity - it's the law of economics ! They have gone after everything else in the company......
Those who say the government will not allow BA to go under, I think you are wrong. Unlike the banking sector, there would be no systemic risk to the financial system (like the banks) if BA were not around. Parts of the organisation would be attractive to other organisations or re-born mkII.
Also, there could very well be a Conservative government in power at the time and they were going to let Northern Rock go bust !
Even though the government did bail Northern Rock, look what happened. They slashed jobs (000's), carved the business up, closed bits down etc, in order to restore an acceptable level of profitability to re-pay the taxpayer and make it attractive to a suitor......we demanded it. They would do the same with BA if and it is a big if they even stepped in - so they would need to make same changes.
BASSA, you only have 1 choice, negotiate for your life and quickly, you cannot win this battle.
Which is the lesser of two evils, the above scenarios, or 1/2 crew members less. negotiate clever, like scope agreements, ways of working in the future etc etc to try and reduce the future risk of impositions (or at least lessen the likelihood) and attempt to water down the impact of new fleet. BASSA can then genuinely claim to have achieved something, the alternative is to follow their current route/sleepwalk to oblivion.
I find this situation terribly sad for all involved in BA and those people who rely on BA for their livelihoods too (handling agents, caterers, cleaners etc etc). It is also really sad for the likes of Tiramisu, Hiflyer, Slidebustle etc who are genuinely worried about themselves, you can hear it in their posts.
I think BASSA are playing a very, very serious and very dangerous game of poker, and having tried to think through the various consequences, I can see absolutely no upside for them (and by inference their members), other than some temporarily inflated egos. Whatever the outcome, I think they have been tactically outmanouevered and made some serious errors of judgement. So:-
1. BASSA win the court case on Feb 1. As has been said:-
Willie either recruits a la new fleet to backfill the VR people and adds a degree of complexity to the business (rostering, payroll etc) - not desirable, complexity costs, but doable. When NF gets to critical mass start moving 'expensive' routes across to them.
Willie recruits new entrants onto existing Ts&Cs - not going to happen imo, he would have achieved nothing with all this upset.
Willie issues all crew with 90 days notice to terminate existing contracts, all existing crew onto new contracts, new entrants onto new fleet, no complexity as earlier - controversial in short term, but attractive. Perfectly legal, so presumably BASSA cannot threaten IA over this (not sure legally if this assumption is correct).
So BASSA will almost certainly just hasten the arrival of new fleet. Great job BASSA.
2. BA win the court case on Feb1:-
BASSA lose confidence of membership and suffer humiliation.
BA sue Unite/BASSA for damages running into millions - will this kill BASSA (and possibly Unite) ?
Where then for BASSA ?
Period of instability - Willie pushes through more change (some that could have been negotiated away), BASSA in disarray.
BASSA will have totally wrecked the opportunity for a negotiated settlement and members will pay the price. Great job BASSA.
Whatever scenario, now that brand damage has been done, forward bookings affected etc. The only way BA will regain public confidence (and bookings) is if the company can assure them that this will not happen again. The board will want Willie to numb the power of BASSA for good to achieve this confidence, even if this means that at the end of the process he is a token sacrificial lamb - he will have achieved what many others have failed to do and (assuming BA survive) will have put BA on a massively strong long term financial footing.
I cannot see, from a logical business perspective, how BA can leave BASSA unchecked ??? They are past the point of no return at this stage imo. Investors are demanding this reform.
The timing of this dispute also (I think) sucks for Unite and I think presents a real dliemma for them (not that BASSA will care). Unite bankroll the labour party and want to see them in power or at the very least limit the size of a Conservative majority. It is very much in Unite's interest to see this and they spend millions and millions to achieve that. Conservatives have introduced, in the past, legislation to curb TU power.
BA (as we just saw) along with the BBC are the most reported/press covered organisations in the country. We have seen that BASSA have pretty much zero public support with their dispute, esp with their terrible, ill conceived 12 days of Christmas message. Any dispute/potential dispute will get blanket press coverage.
This potential dispute will be just on the brink (or depending on when/if it is called and how long it lasts) could be bang in the middle of a general election campaign. P*ssed off travellers disrupted = p*ssed off voters. P*ssed off public who have lost jobs/unsympathetic to BASSA = p*ssed off voters. Guess who is supporting this - Labour's biggest donor ! Can see Messrs Brown and Mandelson's grubby hands involvement if it got to this ??
Dying Labour governments associated with industrial unrest.
Unite potentially shooting themselves in the foot on a much wider political scale.
Whatever way you look at it, all plays to BA and Willie's team.
BASSA really have pressed the nuclear button and they seriously need to eat some humble pie and try to get back to meaningful negotiation, I think they are in a really perilous position. If they don't, I can't see any way that there are any positives in this for them (and members) whatever happens.
Those who say the recession will end, yes it will. Remember though unemployment is a lag indicator and wont peak until later this year. So discretionary travel spend will still be under pressure for some time. Financial services wont ever (imo) go back to how it was and travel spend will thus be reduced.
We have yet to see the impact of higher tax rates and bankers bonuses being curbed - this may again see a reduction in travel spend. BA have a long way to go to ride out this storm - they can't go on losing 1 million pounds a day indefinitely. If it's not Willie, the next CEO needs to tackle it - you can't compete in a hugely competitive market with uncompetitive costs and poor producivity - it's the law of economics ! They have gone after everything else in the company......
Those who say the government will not allow BA to go under, I think you are wrong. Unlike the banking sector, there would be no systemic risk to the financial system (like the banks) if BA were not around. Parts of the organisation would be attractive to other organisations or re-born mkII.
Also, there could very well be a Conservative government in power at the time and they were going to let Northern Rock go bust !
Even though the government did bail Northern Rock, look what happened. They slashed jobs (000's), carved the business up, closed bits down etc, in order to restore an acceptable level of profitability to re-pay the taxpayer and make it attractive to a suitor......we demanded it. They would do the same with BA if and it is a big if they even stepped in - so they would need to make same changes.
BASSA, you only have 1 choice, negotiate for your life and quickly, you cannot win this battle.
Which is the lesser of two evils, the above scenarios, or 1/2 crew members less. negotiate clever, like scope agreements, ways of working in the future etc etc to try and reduce the future risk of impositions (or at least lessen the likelihood) and attempt to water down the impact of new fleet. BASSA can then genuinely claim to have achieved something, the alternative is to follow their current route/sleepwalk to oblivion.
Last edited by TOM100; 2nd Jan 2010 at 17:02. Reason: typo
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Regarding the merit of the strike: if the judge rules that the changes made by BA are not contractual (that is what the court case is about) than a strike against those changes based on the current ballot proposition (that the changes are contractual and therefor BASSA should have been involved) is again illegal.
Got it in one and my thoughts exactly. However, BASSA don't seem to and and never will.
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Regarding the merit of the strike: if the judge rules that the changes made by BA are not contractual (that is what the court case is about) than a strike against those changes based on the current ballot proposition (that the changes are contractual and therefor BASSA should have been involved) is again illegal.
So even if the changes are judged to be non-contractual Bassa will ballot regardless because changes have been made without their agreement. (as I understand it!!)
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So even if the changes are judged to be non-contractual Bassa will ballot regardless because changes have been made without their agreement. (as I understand it!!)
So regardless, BASSA will lead the rest of the crew community to the dole queue then will they?
Could you please tell me where in writing does it state that BA cannot make any changes to crew complements without BASSA's express permission or agreement?
I'm a CSD and I do not have it anywhere in my contract that states that.
(PS,No offence meant to you personally, Meal Chucker)
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Tom - you have hit the nail on the head.
As I've said before, I don't understand why UNITE are balloting because:
If BA win the court case - they can't strike.
If UNITE win the court case - they can't strike.
So all this re-ballot will achieve is to alienate us even more, cost us more money, and LOSE CUSTOMERS. You are right - there is a growing group of us that are EXTREMELY CONCERNED about our livelihoods. As I said in an earlier post - If I could go to BA and negotiate a Fixed Monthly Payment I would.
But how do we make the rest of the 14000 cabin crew understand? Many of them don't read ANY of the literature. Some believe that because they belong to the Union, they have to do what the Union wants. You only have to look at the postings of some of the militants on here. While some may come across as intelligent and articulate, they fail to grasp the basic concept that our jobs are under more threat from strike action than from New Fleet. Some of the basics of all this that cabin crew fail to grasp are just incomprehensible to the rest of us. And, regrettably there are many, many like that out there.
If we try and speak out, we are bullied. We cannot put our message on CrewForum - you have to enter your full name and staff number to join, and then if you print something they don't like, not only will you get hounded on the forum, they will ban you. Don't say they won't MissM - they already have!
The message needs to get out there that UNITE has seriously misrepresented us. UNITE are risking our jobs every day they move forward towards another strike. They have so far ACHIEVED NOTHING. Yet they have proved incompetent - the Chairwoman herself LalaLady was illegally encouraging people who had left the company to vote. How can anyone be sure that they are not doing other illegal activities? Why is Lalalady still in power? She has personally brought the entire cabin crew community into disrepute - we cannot even walk outside with our uniforms on without the public looking at us in disgust. Yet still she carries on her devious, underhand and immoral work from her protected pad in Lalaland.
She should resign and hang her in shame. But she hasn't even got the gumption to do that. Well, if she's earning in the region of 75K from Unite to support her Hollywood lifestyle - why would she? The term "illusions of grandeur" has never been so apt.
And, that, dear readers, is what we are up against. This bullying, arrogant, incompetent Union led by a woman who knows no morals, is dragging our company down around us. But many cabin crew are sticking their fingers in their ears saying "BASSA 100%".
I could cry.
I am BA cabin crew, and the above represents my own view, and not that of BA.
As I've said before, I don't understand why UNITE are balloting because:
If BA win the court case - they can't strike.
If UNITE win the court case - they can't strike.
So all this re-ballot will achieve is to alienate us even more, cost us more money, and LOSE CUSTOMERS. You are right - there is a growing group of us that are EXTREMELY CONCERNED about our livelihoods. As I said in an earlier post - If I could go to BA and negotiate a Fixed Monthly Payment I would.
But how do we make the rest of the 14000 cabin crew understand? Many of them don't read ANY of the literature. Some believe that because they belong to the Union, they have to do what the Union wants. You only have to look at the postings of some of the militants on here. While some may come across as intelligent and articulate, they fail to grasp the basic concept that our jobs are under more threat from strike action than from New Fleet. Some of the basics of all this that cabin crew fail to grasp are just incomprehensible to the rest of us. And, regrettably there are many, many like that out there.
If we try and speak out, we are bullied. We cannot put our message on CrewForum - you have to enter your full name and staff number to join, and then if you print something they don't like, not only will you get hounded on the forum, they will ban you. Don't say they won't MissM - they already have!
The message needs to get out there that UNITE has seriously misrepresented us. UNITE are risking our jobs every day they move forward towards another strike. They have so far ACHIEVED NOTHING. Yet they have proved incompetent - the Chairwoman herself LalaLady was illegally encouraging people who had left the company to vote. How can anyone be sure that they are not doing other illegal activities? Why is Lalalady still in power? She has personally brought the entire cabin crew community into disrepute - we cannot even walk outside with our uniforms on without the public looking at us in disgust. Yet still she carries on her devious, underhand and immoral work from her protected pad in Lalaland.
She should resign and hang her in shame. But she hasn't even got the gumption to do that. Well, if she's earning in the region of 75K from Unite to support her Hollywood lifestyle - why would she? The term "illusions of grandeur" has never been so apt.
And, that, dear readers, is what we are up against. This bullying, arrogant, incompetent Union led by a woman who knows no morals, is dragging our company down around us. But many cabin crew are sticking their fingers in their ears saying "BASSA 100%".
I could cry.
I am BA cabin crew, and the above represents my own view, and not that of BA.
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I do though, like many others have suggested, doubt the resolve of crew to actually strike. I don't doubt their resolve to put an X in the yes box.
Look at 1997. Benign economic conditions, low interest rates, falling unemployment. BA posted record profits in 1996, record profit share with employees. easyJet barely two years old and small, Ryanair, still provinical Irish airline flying some clapped out 737-200's across the Irish Sea. BA still charging a few hundred quid to fly to GLA etc etc Arguably, inconceivable at the time that BA would fold, lots of job opportunities and economy buoyant, fuel prices low (relatively). Cabin crew still bottled it - a few hundred striking and the rest going sick or reporting for work !!
Compare with today, no sign of end of recession effects on BA, FR and EZY bigger than BA by some, open skies, rising unemployment, BA is perilous financial state, little job opportunities. New sickness policy (EG300), and a management with cojones and determination. Lots of companies wouldn't touch ex BA cabin crew with a barge pole because of all this. How many will strike this time ???
Also, I wonder in the run up to the injunction when management were ascertaining who was prepared to work, would strike, would do overtime etc etc if it gave any insight to them into the resolve of crew ???
Look at 1997. Benign economic conditions, low interest rates, falling unemployment. BA posted record profits in 1996, record profit share with employees. easyJet barely two years old and small, Ryanair, still provinical Irish airline flying some clapped out 737-200's across the Irish Sea. BA still charging a few hundred quid to fly to GLA etc etc Arguably, inconceivable at the time that BA would fold, lots of job opportunities and economy buoyant, fuel prices low (relatively). Cabin crew still bottled it - a few hundred striking and the rest going sick or reporting for work !!
Compare with today, no sign of end of recession effects on BA, FR and EZY bigger than BA by some, open skies, rising unemployment, BA is perilous financial state, little job opportunities. New sickness policy (EG300), and a management with cojones and determination. Lots of companies wouldn't touch ex BA cabin crew with a barge pole because of all this. How many will strike this time ???
Also, I wonder in the run up to the injunction when management were ascertaining who was prepared to work, would strike, would do overtime etc etc if it gave any insight to them into the resolve of crew ???
Last edited by TOM100; 2nd Jan 2010 at 14:57.
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Yes, I totally agree - the resolve to strike is extremely weak. After the last vote, everyone I flew with said they were coming into work, even though they had voted Yes. I'm not sure if I respect them even less than I do the hardcore militants.
Either way the damage will be done, by deterring customers, and losing us money. And then, BA may well HAVE to change our contracts.
What we have at the moment is very palatable. One crew member off an aircraft. Everyone is doing it, and their is no hardship whatsoever. The hardship will come when our Pay and contracts HAVE TO BE changed due to all this loss of business. The crew community are not going to know what hit them.
The rest of us can but hold our head in our hands and weep.
I'm not sure if I respect them even less than I do the hardcore militants.Either way the damage will be done, by deterring customers, and losing us money. And then, BA may well HAVE to change our contracts.
What we have at the moment is very palatable. One crew member off an aircraft. Everyone is doing it, and their is no hardship whatsoever. The hardship will come when our Pay and contracts HAVE TO BE changed due to all this loss of business. The crew community are not going to know what hit them.
The rest of us can but hold our head in our hands and weep.
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The ballot for strike action is not about what actual changes have been made, whether contractual or not, it is about the imposition of changes.
So even if the changes are judged to be non-contractual Bassa will ballot regardless because changes have been made without their agreement. (as I understand it!!)
So even if the changes are judged to be non-contractual Bassa will ballot regardless because changes have been made without their agreement. (as I understand it!!)
The original ballot was cast because BASSA said the BA had breached the contracts by imposing changes that were contractual. It was not about the changes themselves mind you, it was about due process. IF the changes are not contractual than there any strike over BA not following due process is illegal. If the changes are non-contractual BASSA can not call a strike over the changes themselves either. Illegal too, since it is not part of what they are party to (for lack of a better expression).
The only option BASSA would have is to now claim the new strike is about something else entirely. I don't think even the strongest BASSA supporters on here would accept that.
You see: the reasoning behind the strike has always been very, very flimsy (legally) and even with a successful re-ballot and with a ruling in its favor BASSA cannot strike. BA will hit them with another injunction and probably win again.
If BASSA wins, there is no more reason to strike (unless you make up a new one)
If BASSA loses a strike is illegal and besides, they will be in court defending themselves against all kinds of claims...
Nobody wins. Not BA, not the CC, not the passengers, not the rest of the staff, not the shareholder, not even WW himself.
We all lose.
BA staff can go work for a new airline (probably called BA Airways) against T&C comparable with Virgin. Remember Pyrrhus?
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Tiramisu
(PS,No offence meant to you personally, Meal Chucker)
So regardless, BASSA will lead the rest of the crew community to the dole queue then will they?
I think Bassa are playing a very dangerous game with little or no appreciation for the full implications of their actions.
When if all goes wrong I suspect the likes of Malone and her team of Kitchen fitters will disappear off into the distance leaving the rest of us to pay the price and pick up the pieces of the job they have decimated with their ill-conceived short-sighted actions.