British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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I am still struggling to see haw you could just end BASSA, by bringing in a new fleet? BASSA are about 40 people in 13000.
It was my understanding that between ten to twelve thousand BA cabin crew are subscription paying members of BASSA.
Or am I mistaken?
the measures that BA are taking to reduce the impact allows the blame for the strike failing, to be directed elsewhere.
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Well, it depends with whom you are discussing the point with.
To me, BASSA are the current membership within IFCE, say 8000+. So to finish BASSA, do those 8000+ have to go?
Or is it the BASSA reps, is it just them who have to go?
Or is it the first BASSA members who, if the strike vote is a yes, go on strike on day one?
You cannot just remove BASSA and the only way it can just be finished, is if you are talking about the current reps only.
Is BASSA perceived as a mind set of anti BA sentiment? If it is, how do you remove that, apart from removing everyone that is or has the potential to be BASSA?
To me, BASSA are the current membership within IFCE, say 8000+. So to finish BASSA, do those 8000+ have to go?
Or is it the BASSA reps, is it just them who have to go?
Or is it the first BASSA members who, if the strike vote is a yes, go on strike on day one?
You cannot just remove BASSA and the only way it can just be finished, is if you are talking about the current reps only.
Is BASSA perceived as a mind set of anti BA sentiment? If it is, how do you remove that, apart from removing everyone that is or has the potential to be BASSA?
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I imagine that the blame would directed at the membership who voted no, voted yes but reported for work and most likely, the employees from other departments who came to aide BA in maintaining the operation.
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The Bassa reps aren't going anywhere.
It is up to the membership to change the constitution, or simply leave in droves.
The constitution itself is seriously flawed.
The reps are surrounded by their sycophants and believe their own publicity (lies).
And they are on far too good a deal to leave.
They are on a lot more than 100 quid a day!!! Remember they get a direct % of membership fees.
It is up to the membership to change the constitution, or simply leave in droves.
The constitution itself is seriously flawed.
The reps are surrounded by their sycophants and believe their own publicity (lies).
And they are on far too good a deal to leave.
They are on a lot more than 100 quid a day!!! Remember they get a direct % of membership fees.
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The Blu Riband
There will be a true measure of BASSA then, when the new ballot result is announced and the turnout will be as important as the percentage. Voting for the potential of a lengthy stoppage and removal of ST permanently, should focus the individuals mind.
We shall see.
We shall see.
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interesting
quote
Well, it depends with whom you are discussing the point with.
To me, BASSA are the current membership within IFCE, say 8000+. So to finish BASSA, do those 8000+ have to go?
Or is it the BASSA reps, is it just them who have to go?
Or is it the first BASSA members who, if the strike vote is a yes, go on strike on day one?
You cannot just remove BASSA and the only way it can just be finished, is if you are talking about the current reps only.
Is BASSA perceived as a mind set of anti BA sentiment? If it is, how do you remove that, apart from removing everyone that is or has the potential to be BASSA?
Interestin!! If BA do invoke the 90 day rule who does it appy to? Everyone or just BASSA members?
What about someone who is a BASSA member who first of all votes NO then goes to the BASSA office and resigns at the same time getting 2 signed copies of their resignation from a BASSA rep. One they take immediately to their manager and give them one copy.The other one also signed by their manager they also keep as proof.
Of course there is nothing to prevent a YES voter doing the same.
In both cases would this again be a reason for the ballot being invalidated in a court?
Removing the current BASSA reps and leaving BASSA intact would probably mean another lot of militanats taking charge or can BA also remove recognition from BASSA/UNITE?
Well, it depends with whom you are discussing the point with.
To me, BASSA are the current membership within IFCE, say 8000+. So to finish BASSA, do those 8000+ have to go?
Or is it the BASSA reps, is it just them who have to go?
Or is it the first BASSA members who, if the strike vote is a yes, go on strike on day one?
You cannot just remove BASSA and the only way it can just be finished, is if you are talking about the current reps only.
Is BASSA perceived as a mind set of anti BA sentiment? If it is, how do you remove that, apart from removing everyone that is or has the potential to be BASSA?
Interestin!! If BA do invoke the 90 day rule who does it appy to? Everyone or just BASSA members?
What about someone who is a BASSA member who first of all votes NO then goes to the BASSA office and resigns at the same time getting 2 signed copies of their resignation from a BASSA rep. One they take immediately to their manager and give them one copy.The other one also signed by their manager they also keep as proof.
Of course there is nothing to prevent a YES voter doing the same.
In both cases would this again be a reason for the ballot being invalidated in a court?
Removing the current BASSA reps and leaving BASSA intact would probably mean another lot of militanats taking charge or can BA also remove recognition from BASSA/UNITE?
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What about someone who is a BASSA member who first of all votes NO then goes to the BASSA office and resigns at the same time getting 2 signed copies of their resignation from a BASSA rep. One they take immediately to their manager and give them one copy.The other one also signed by their manager they also keep as proof.
Of course there is nothing to prevent a YES voter doing the same.
In both cases would this again be a reason for the ballot being invalidated in a court?
Removing the current BASSA reps and leaving BASSA intact would probably mean another lot of militanats taking charge or can BA also remove recognition from BASSA/UNITE?
Of course there is nothing to prevent a YES voter doing the same.
In both cases would this again be a reason for the ballot being invalidated in a court?
Removing the current BASSA reps and leaving BASSA intact would probably mean another lot of militanats taking charge or can BA also remove recognition from BASSA/UNITE?
As far as the removal of BASSA is concerned, which seems to be the topic of the day, hmm, split vew on this as I am very much in favour of unions, but in the same way I am in favour of bacteria, only good ones needed thanks.
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@ SlideBustle ...
You have 100% support on that part of your post. 
We have a lot of good staff who are expected to deliver a premium product to First and Club passengers. So realistically this should be reflected in the conditions/pay. It's my opinion minimum wage should not be paid to BA crew. In fact I do not believe minimum wage should be paid to ANY airlines cabin crew. Some will say ''it is unqualified job'' etc but it can be demanding work and has a high safety element in it with regards to what we are trained in. Whilst I am a No voter, I do believe ALL airline cabin crew deserve a decent wage (no I am not saying we should all be on the old contract still!!) many do, some, in my personal opinion, are paid under what they should.
- The working conditions are not exactly charming.
- The breadth and spread of responsibilities are wide, if a little shallow.
- The hours are somewhat anti-social.
- The allowances and benefits are fantastic [ooops, should have left that one out].
Last edited by Two-Tone-Blue; 30th Jan 2010 at 17:22. Reason: minor typo and added a bit
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Should the strike take place, what will be the position of the suspended BASSA reps and supporters (and anyone else who is on suspension for any reason)? As they are suspended, they will presumably not be rostered to work, and unless they show up and make themselves obvious on a picket will not be obviously on strike.
Or will BA suspend the suspensions, call them in for a disciplinary hearing, or otherwise give them the opportunity to demonstrate their solidarity with BASSA?
Or will BA suspend the suspensions, call them in for a disciplinary hearing, or otherwise give them the opportunity to demonstrate their solidarity with BASSA?
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A Product YOU should be proud of
This will probably be a once only posting for me, but i feel that i have to say something on here.
FIRST OF ALL i am a passenger and one that is pleased to say i enjoy the quality of service i receive from BA CabinCrew. as a disabled passenger i know i put extra work on all staff from check-in to leaving the plane, but if it was not for you guys up in the air i feel that everything else would be kind of just by the way. you do a fantastic job and i depend on that.
what i don't want to see is the loss of that enthusiam. i know the likelihood of strike action over the past months has put immense pressure on you all but i would like to see that dispensed with, not what i consider to a valued airline.
as a passenger, yes some of us have a choice who we fly with others don't. i fall into the latter with my upcoming holiday plans. just to let you know i am travelling with NCL (Norwegian Cruise Lines) on a european cruise (Med) which is costing over £4000. the threat of a strike jeopodises that holiday. i am like many others and cannot stand to loose that amount of money through the actions of what i have been reading on here to be a misguided group (BASSA).
surely any strike action would result in BA having to compensate NCL for failing to provide a service under their partnership, so not only would BA lose customers but also good business partners. I mean a cruise company like NCL must surely fly thousands of passengers on BA flights.
so loss of customers, loss of business partnerships, loss of confidence = loss of revenue leading to loss of wages leading to loss of staff leading to LOSS OF AIRLINE
i do not want to see the loss of BA but if an airline is making a loss every minute it operates surely the best action a union can take is NOT strike action
FIRST OF ALL i am a passenger and one that is pleased to say i enjoy the quality of service i receive from BA CabinCrew. as a disabled passenger i know i put extra work on all staff from check-in to leaving the plane, but if it was not for you guys up in the air i feel that everything else would be kind of just by the way. you do a fantastic job and i depend on that.
what i don't want to see is the loss of that enthusiam. i know the likelihood of strike action over the past months has put immense pressure on you all but i would like to see that dispensed with, not what i consider to a valued airline.
as a passenger, yes some of us have a choice who we fly with others don't. i fall into the latter with my upcoming holiday plans. just to let you know i am travelling with NCL (Norwegian Cruise Lines) on a european cruise (Med) which is costing over £4000. the threat of a strike jeopodises that holiday. i am like many others and cannot stand to loose that amount of money through the actions of what i have been reading on here to be a misguided group (BASSA).
surely any strike action would result in BA having to compensate NCL for failing to provide a service under their partnership, so not only would BA lose customers but also good business partners. I mean a cruise company like NCL must surely fly thousands of passengers on BA flights.
so loss of customers, loss of business partnerships, loss of confidence = loss of revenue leading to loss of wages leading to loss of staff leading to LOSS OF AIRLINE
i do not want to see the loss of BA but if an airline is making a loss every minute it operates surely the best action a union can take is NOT strike action
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A good post, Sir. Welcome to the alternative reality of this Forum.
I earnestly hope that your trip happens as planned [and paid for].
I have a feeling it will be OK for you.
I earnestly hope that your trip happens as planned [and paid for].
I have a feeling it will be OK for you.
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surely any strike action would result in BA having to compensate NCL for failing to provide a service under their partnership
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Real concerns
Hi everyone. I am new to the forum - I have been watching from the wings for a long time but now I feel I have to say something I am just so disallusioned with my crew colleagues. I find this forum to be be very informative and balanced and above all sensible. The BASSA forum is just full of very blinkered and sometimes downright rude people and it really scares me how nobody seems to even mention the terrible state the airline industry is in right now. I would be really interested in your thoughts on my post.
I have today returned my strike ballot with a NO vote and first thing Monday morning I am resigning from BASSA. I would also like to assure you
that if I am rostered to work during any strike I will
report for work as normal as I feel I must do everything
in my power to support our customers and my company. Even
though I am very scared of what repercussions I can expect
from those who vote YES.
I am absolutley fed up with all of BASSA´s
scaremongering, of their quite frankly, very juvenile
communication, and above all their absolute refusal to
negotiate properly on my behalf. I cannot believe that
they will not budge on the crewing level changes and are
insisting that IFCE reinstate said levels. They seem
hellbent on destroying this company and risking my, and
indeed all of our jobs in the process. I cannot understand how they
can ignore the terrible state the airline industry is in
as borne out by the recent IATA figures which clearly show
2009 as the worst year ever for the industry in terms of
demand - let alone the fact that we as a company are heading for our worst loss in history.
We are losing money daily and yet their ludicrous
answer is to increase costs by demanding the crew levels
are reinstated with laughable suggestions as to how to
implement this.
I feel a strike now would be utterly catastrophic for us
as a company, for our reputation with our loyal customers,
and of course for our finances. I cannot believe that
BASSA is blindly leading its members to this fate.
I will be honest with you. I voted YES before
Christmas. I really did feel that it would be a way to
force negotiation. I hoped it would not come to a strike.
Now I know that I was wrong and I should have thought more
before I made my decision. I was appalled by BASSA´s
cynical move of calling for 12 days of strikes over Christmas given the misery that would cause to thousands of families let alone the financial
cost to our company. We were not warned this
would be the case - had I known this I would certainly
have voted NO.
I feel so stongly that BASSA has squandered chances of
negotiation time and time again. IFCE have put some good
terms on the table and all have been rejected it seems.
I am very proud to work for BA. Most of the time I
really like and enjoy my job and I like to think that I am
quite good at it! I do not agree with all of the cost
saving measures so far introduced but I totally accept
that we must save money if we are to survive. I do have concerns
about New Fleet but again I accept that it must happen and
I dearly wanted BASSA to negotiate all they could on its introduction so
as to protect my current earnings. I can see that (my
preferred option) to have New Fleet fly along side
existing crew could be very problematic to administer but
at least BASSA could have tried to talk about that instead of this
suicidal insistence on crew complement reinstatement.
I am 100% behind working harder but keeping my current
earning potential and current terms
and conditions, days off etc. What is so
wrong with wanting to work for the best paying and most
respected airline in the UK? I have worked to the
new complements several times now on Eurofleet. They are
doable! I just wish my colleagues could see
that too.
But now I am so worried that I will lose all my current
terms and conditions because of BASSA´s refusal to see
sense and that I will be tarred with the same brush as
those who choose to believe what they are spoon fed by BASSA.
What do you guys think will happen to people like me if there is, as I
unfortunately and really sadly suspect, another YES
majority and the strike goes ahead? BF said in his
recent letter:
If the majority of you choose to support our customers and
reject a strike, I will continue to offer these
assurances. They would allow you to:
Keep your current individual terms and conditions
Keep your current basic pay, with 2%-7% increment rises
this financial year and next for 75% of you
Keep your average variable pay through the offer of a
monthly payment
Keep flying an unrivalled network of routes and staying in
quality hotels while you’re there
Keep lifestyle choices, either by changing fleets at
Heathrow or transferring to part time
Keep a commitment from us to keep talking with Unite about
how we recruit new crew
Keep full union representation with an offer from us for
Unite to represent future crew.
But that is only if a majority say NO and reject a strike.
Will I, and many others like me who care about their job
and their colleagues´ jobs and about this company, be
penalised because of ill informed and militant strikers?
It seems so unfair to me that I will perhaps lose my
current terms and conditions and all of the above
assurances even though I voted NO and worked normally and
with pride throughout a strike if it goes ahead.
thanks for listening
I have today returned my strike ballot with a NO vote and first thing Monday morning I am resigning from BASSA. I would also like to assure you
that if I am rostered to work during any strike I will
report for work as normal as I feel I must do everything
in my power to support our customers and my company. Even
though I am very scared of what repercussions I can expect
from those who vote YES.
I am absolutley fed up with all of BASSA´s
scaremongering, of their quite frankly, very juvenile
communication, and above all their absolute refusal to
negotiate properly on my behalf. I cannot believe that
they will not budge on the crewing level changes and are
insisting that IFCE reinstate said levels. They seem
hellbent on destroying this company and risking my, and
indeed all of our jobs in the process. I cannot understand how they
can ignore the terrible state the airline industry is in
as borne out by the recent IATA figures which clearly show
2009 as the worst year ever for the industry in terms of
demand - let alone the fact that we as a company are heading for our worst loss in history.
We are losing money daily and yet their ludicrous
answer is to increase costs by demanding the crew levels
are reinstated with laughable suggestions as to how to
implement this.
I feel a strike now would be utterly catastrophic for us
as a company, for our reputation with our loyal customers,
and of course for our finances. I cannot believe that
BASSA is blindly leading its members to this fate.
I will be honest with you. I voted YES before
Christmas. I really did feel that it would be a way to
force negotiation. I hoped it would not come to a strike.
Now I know that I was wrong and I should have thought more
before I made my decision. I was appalled by BASSA´s
cynical move of calling for 12 days of strikes over Christmas given the misery that would cause to thousands of families let alone the financial
cost to our company. We were not warned this
would be the case - had I known this I would certainly
have voted NO.
I feel so stongly that BASSA has squandered chances of
negotiation time and time again. IFCE have put some good
terms on the table and all have been rejected it seems.
I am very proud to work for BA. Most of the time I
really like and enjoy my job and I like to think that I am
quite good at it! I do not agree with all of the cost
saving measures so far introduced but I totally accept
that we must save money if we are to survive. I do have concerns
about New Fleet but again I accept that it must happen and
I dearly wanted BASSA to negotiate all they could on its introduction so
as to protect my current earnings. I can see that (my
preferred option) to have New Fleet fly along side
existing crew could be very problematic to administer but
at least BASSA could have tried to talk about that instead of this
suicidal insistence on crew complement reinstatement.
I am 100% behind working harder but keeping my current
earning potential and current terms
and conditions, days off etc. What is so
wrong with wanting to work for the best paying and most
respected airline in the UK? I have worked to the
new complements several times now on Eurofleet. They are
doable! I just wish my colleagues could see
that too.
But now I am so worried that I will lose all my current
terms and conditions because of BASSA´s refusal to see
sense and that I will be tarred with the same brush as
those who choose to believe what they are spoon fed by BASSA.
What do you guys think will happen to people like me if there is, as I
unfortunately and really sadly suspect, another YES
majority and the strike goes ahead? BF said in his
recent letter:
If the majority of you choose to support our customers and
reject a strike, I will continue to offer these
assurances. They would allow you to:
Keep your current individual terms and conditions
Keep your current basic pay, with 2%-7% increment rises
this financial year and next for 75% of you
Keep your average variable pay through the offer of a
monthly payment
Keep flying an unrivalled network of routes and staying in
quality hotels while you’re there
Keep lifestyle choices, either by changing fleets at
Heathrow or transferring to part time
Keep a commitment from us to keep talking with Unite about
how we recruit new crew
Keep full union representation with an offer from us for
Unite to represent future crew.
But that is only if a majority say NO and reject a strike.
Will I, and many others like me who care about their job
and their colleagues´ jobs and about this company, be
penalised because of ill informed and militant strikers?
It seems so unfair to me that I will perhaps lose my
current terms and conditions and all of the above
assurances even though I voted NO and worked normally and
with pride throughout a strike if it goes ahead.
thanks for listening
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Litebulbs,
the point about a 48 hour failed strike leaving Bassa toothless, is not that the members or the leadership will be sacked or out of the company, but that despite evry effort and weapon in it's armoury bassa will have failed to gain it's way. BA will have succeeded and will be srengthened in its resolve to make any changes it sees fit, knowing that Bassa's ultimate weapon, strike action, is ineffectual.
BA have then all that they want.
the point about a 48 hour failed strike leaving Bassa toothless, is not that the members or the leadership will be sacked or out of the company, but that despite evry effort and weapon in it's armoury bassa will have failed to gain it's way. BA will have succeeded and will be srengthened in its resolve to make any changes it sees fit, knowing that Bassa's ultimate weapon, strike action, is ineffectual.
BA have then all that they want.
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@midman ...
... And all BA want is to NOT make a loss of £1m per day.
In the Grand Scheme of things, the only aspect of BA's cost-base that hasn't been "imposed on" is the CC at LHR. BA doesn't actually care WHO is holding up proceedings, however 'self-aware' some CC might feel. They just need to make some serious savings before the company goes down the toilet.
The only area so far untouched appears to be the LHR CC. It's your turn in the barrel. Is it that complicated?
Save BA or be unemployed.
BA have then all that they want.
In the Grand Scheme of things, the only aspect of BA's cost-base that hasn't been "imposed on" is the CC at LHR. BA doesn't actually care WHO is holding up proceedings, however 'self-aware' some CC might feel. They just need to make some serious savings before the company goes down the toilet.
The only area so far untouched appears to be the LHR CC. It's your turn in the barrel. Is it that complicated?
Save BA or be unemployed.
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DIDIDIDI (Did I do enough D's and I's?)
Welcome to the forum, I dont have much to add other than to agree with more or less every wrord you wrote.
You may be surprised to discover that there are a lot more crew that think as you do than you realise.
Keep ya' chin up, keep providing good service to customers, it's a long way from doomed in my view.
You may be surprised to discover that there are a lot more crew that think as you do than you realise.
Keep ya' chin up, keep providing good service to customers, it's a long way from doomed in my view.
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midman
You are absolutely correct, if what you forsee happens. There are two steps before that eventuality still to come however, the court (or not court) action and the ballot result.
An interesting point will be if the membership vote no. BASSA as a union could still exist, but the top table will probably be empty.
An interesting point will be if the membership vote no. BASSA as a union could still exist, but the top table will probably be empty.