British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Union thoughts
Dear Cabinmembers,
I registered just to reply!
I will not judge on the rightness off your actions since I do not have the facts however I do think the Unions are using you at our expence (I'm a coleague at the engineering dept) to express their frustration and I'm sure the lowcost carriers are celebrating your decision to strike since this is gonna give them another 10 percent more customers next year that we will never see back at our flights!
Now I want to ask you : Are your conditions of employment as bad as the ones from the low cost carriers???? I don't think so!
And to the unions: If you really representing CC then concentrate on the low cost carriers because all the actions here give the lowcost carriers more pax thus more CC working under worse conditions then our company!
I hope you all come to your senses before it's too late
Kind regards,
A worried colleague!
I registered just to reply!
I will not judge on the rightness off your actions since I do not have the facts however I do think the Unions are using you at our expence (I'm a coleague at the engineering dept) to express their frustration and I'm sure the lowcost carriers are celebrating your decision to strike since this is gonna give them another 10 percent more customers next year that we will never see back at our flights!
Now I want to ask you : Are your conditions of employment as bad as the ones from the low cost carriers???? I don't think so!
And to the unions: If you really representing CC then concentrate on the low cost carriers because all the actions here give the lowcost carriers more pax thus more CC working under worse conditions then our company!
I hope you all come to your senses before it's too late
Kind regards,
A worried colleague!
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Simply speaking, there are 3 cc contract types: Old, New and LGW singlefleet.
The old contract, pre 1997 (I think) is what these figures are being quoted.
New contract is less, but still considerably more than Virgin cc.
The LGW singlefleet contract (agreed by BASSA to save LHR from costsavings) is @ virgin rates + 5-10%. The LGW crew are currently suffering due to less flights this winter meaning less money.
Remember £1500-£2000 a month is equivalent to @£30,000 before tax, when you consider pension contributions, childcare voucher scheme, and allowances taken out downroute have already been subtracted from the takehome pay.
The old contract, pre 1997 (I think) is what these figures are being quoted.
New contract is less, but still considerably more than Virgin cc.
The LGW singlefleet contract (agreed by BASSA to save LHR from costsavings) is @ virgin rates + 5-10%. The LGW crew are currently suffering due to less flights this winter meaning less money.
Remember £1500-£2000 a month is equivalent to @£30,000 before tax, when you consider pension contributions, childcare voucher scheme, and allowances taken out downroute have already been subtracted from the takehome pay.
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I have been a professional pilot for many years, travelling long haul frequently in order to locate near to my company operating bases.
A few years ago, I stopped flying with BA for company reasons and subsequently found out their cabin crew service was not up to the standard I experienced on other long haul airlines; particularly Singapore Air, Cathay, Thai Air and Air France.
Someone here mentioned the BA CSD does a good job. The last time I listened to an announcement by one of these gentlemen, my next door seat companion turned to me and said the tone of the announcement; unctuous, condescending and delivered in the manner of a schoolteacher to his class of 10 year olds, was laughable compared to the airline he normally flew with.
Unfortunately I felt inclined to agree with him.
I do not post much on pprune, have no personal link with this upcoming strike and have never looked into the cabin crew section before, but the decision of BA cabin crew to strike; partly because I suspect they genuinely think their service is superior to other airlines and therefore their remuneration should also be superior; is so out of touch with reality that it beggars belief. You poor, poor people.........surely there must be some among you with common sense. Or is that a quality that is lacking just as much as sympathy for the one million passengers you are playing with?
A few years ago, I stopped flying with BA for company reasons and subsequently found out their cabin crew service was not up to the standard I experienced on other long haul airlines; particularly Singapore Air, Cathay, Thai Air and Air France.
Someone here mentioned the BA CSD does a good job. The last time I listened to an announcement by one of these gentlemen, my next door seat companion turned to me and said the tone of the announcement; unctuous, condescending and delivered in the manner of a schoolteacher to his class of 10 year olds, was laughable compared to the airline he normally flew with.
Unfortunately I felt inclined to agree with him.
I do not post much on pprune, have no personal link with this upcoming strike and have never looked into the cabin crew section before, but the decision of BA cabin crew to strike; partly because I suspect they genuinely think their service is superior to other airlines and therefore their remuneration should also be superior; is so out of touch with reality that it beggars belief. You poor, poor people.........surely there must be some among you with common sense. Or is that a quality that is lacking just as much as sympathy for the one million passengers you are playing with?
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is Flying Chick typical of BA Cabin?
Seems to me the Sandown Races was filled with Benny Hinn hysteria - and the idiots in BA cabins have no clue what they are about to unleash on themselves nor those who support your grossly inflated wages by buying tickets...
So Chick - go to Oh Parsons and see what they have to say about cutting and pasting before you open your laptop. And you can be sure, many of your highly trained colleagues in your flight decks 2.9% worse off for a start, will have little sympathy.
As Steve Turner said: "
"We don't care whether it's legal or not. It is unacceptable. The only way we have to address unacceptable behaviour from an employer is to strike."
Another moron.
So Chick - go to Oh Parsons and see what they have to say about cutting and pasting before you open your laptop. And you can be sure, many of your highly trained colleagues in your flight decks 2.9% worse off for a start, will have little sympathy.
As Steve Turner said: "
"We don't care whether it's legal or not. It is unacceptable. The only way we have to address unacceptable behaviour from an employer is to strike."
Another moron.
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Flying Chick,
Please don't give us silly threats here, you don't know what you are talking about. Do you think cutting and pasting is the only means of obtaining the material Unite is pumping out?
I think you'll find that as the material in question is being used in a news report-style capacity in order to ensure free speech and open discussion of a subject of public interest, that it will come into the category of "fair use" of said materials.
I'm sure if you email the BASSA legal department and demand action, they will probably roll their eyes and go "so what?". I think they have slightly bigger worries than that at the moment, and if I were you I would want them focused on them!
Perry it is illegal to copy and paste what unite have send out to the union members I have reported your post. I am going to make sure legal action is taking against this website if people carry on copying and pasteing what unite have sent to union members.
I think you'll find that as the material in question is being used in a news report-style capacity in order to ensure free speech and open discussion of a subject of public interest, that it will come into the category of "fair use" of said materials.
I'm sure if you email the BASSA legal department and demand action, they will probably roll their eyes and go "so what?". I think they have slightly bigger worries than that at the moment, and if I were you I would want them focused on them!
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A pox on all BA union organisers
I am a BA gold card holder who has crossed the Atlantic three times a month - exclusively with BA - for the last 11 years. Not Virgin and not any other carrier; I fly solely with BA. I have done this principally because of the superior cabin service.
In return for my loyalty to BA and contributing to the prosperity and job security of its cabin staff, I (and all other BA passengers) are now being rewarded by this kick in the balls.
I fully respect your right to strike - that is unequivocal. But deciding to call what may be a twelve-day strike over the Christmas/New Year period will cause very severe damage to your employer (BA) and also you, the pilots, the engineers and all ground staff.
This near-mortal blow to BA will cause collateral economic damage not only to your colleagues in the UK but also to the staff who support you in the outstations as well. They earn far less than you in many instances, and you are jeopardising their livings by your action.
Your heretofore loyal and regular customers (like me, with 27 long-haul flights with your source of income and security so far this year) will now have to take into account the risks involved with booking travel with BA. Will the strike-ridden UK flag carrier be flying, or will some self-serving, drunk with power, union berk bring out the entire cabin work force again and again on some pretext or other?
I have been forced by your actions to rebook my LHR-LAX flights for January and the first half of February with other carriers. I cannot afford to take the risks of you and your union organisers continuing with this benighted folly, the very real possibility of your management declaring a lock-out or even BA being forced to declare bankruptcy. Who knows - I might even prefer those foreign carriers' service and reliability and remove all future business from BA?
I am not the only gold card customer in the world; there are tens of thousands of us. If 10% of BA's frequent flyers decide to cut their losses, BA will be forced to fire staff.
And you, my friends will have sawn off the branch on which you so complacently sit.
Think about it.
In return for my loyalty to BA and contributing to the prosperity and job security of its cabin staff, I (and all other BA passengers) are now being rewarded by this kick in the balls.
I fully respect your right to strike - that is unequivocal. But deciding to call what may be a twelve-day strike over the Christmas/New Year period will cause very severe damage to your employer (BA) and also you, the pilots, the engineers and all ground staff.
This near-mortal blow to BA will cause collateral economic damage not only to your colleagues in the UK but also to the staff who support you in the outstations as well. They earn far less than you in many instances, and you are jeopardising their livings by your action.
Your heretofore loyal and regular customers (like me, with 27 long-haul flights with your source of income and security so far this year) will now have to take into account the risks involved with booking travel with BA. Will the strike-ridden UK flag carrier be flying, or will some self-serving, drunk with power, union berk bring out the entire cabin work force again and again on some pretext or other?
I have been forced by your actions to rebook my LHR-LAX flights for January and the first half of February with other carriers. I cannot afford to take the risks of you and your union organisers continuing with this benighted folly, the very real possibility of your management declaring a lock-out or even BA being forced to declare bankruptcy. Who knows - I might even prefer those foreign carriers' service and reliability and remove all future business from BA?
I am not the only gold card customer in the world; there are tens of thousands of us. If 10% of BA's frequent flyers decide to cut their losses, BA will be forced to fire staff.
And you, my friends will have sawn off the branch on which you so complacently sit.
Think about it.
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sue me sue me flying chicken
As expected there have been some distortions of the facts that are being featured in the media regarding the dispute. It seems BA tactics are to provide the Press with some grossly misleading facts and figures, which they know will be fed to all media outlets and misquoted throughout the coming weeks. We refer to the grossly over-stated average earnings in particular. We will shortly publish the correct figures.
Because of this misleading info, some of you will have to field some awkward questions from friends, associates and passengers over the next few days. When on board or on duty we advise saying “it’s best I don’t comment” but "out of uniform" here are a few facts for you to consider and use when replying.
Remember it is still within BA’s power to stop this strike and restart talks now. All they have to do is to agree to revoke the imposition and replace (or pledge to replace) the crew that have been taken off. BASSA will find the £40m that this imposition generated. The ball is in Willie Walsh’s court although, sadly we have already noted he has rejected this offer. Quite simply the strike goes on because of him.
The “12 days” decision was not taken lightly, but it would have been unfair to have held a series of 3 day strikes because that would have exposed the small percentage of crews taking action the first time around. BA are “suspend happy” at the moment and early reprisals could have had an impact on resolve, so it was important all members will be asked to take part. We are all in this together, not just crew working over a 3 day period.
The Xmas decision was also given serious, serious thought. Although this action will cause real heartache amongst the public we have to consider our future employment and terms and conditions as a priority. Ruined Christmases will eventually be forgotten, certainly by next Christmas, but your terms and conditions are something you will have with you for the rest of your working life. BA must be made to see sense and it was reluctantly felt only "audacious" action would have any effect.
Lots of crew are talking “anonymously” to the press. Some clearly are not genuine crew members, but most are. Remind the media who talk to you that your job is on the line should your identity be revealed. That shows just what sort of company we work for and malevolent atmosphere BA have created. A frightened, bullied workforce.
BA have confirmed that five crew have been suspended on gross misconduct charges for making PA apologies to passengers for slow service - again this shows BA in its true colours. Some of these people are senior, well-respected CSDs who have given the company 30 years of loyalty. The media need to understand just how ruthless BA are under Willie Walsh. Remember this is a man who said you get nowhere with negotiating.
There has been some questions asking why strike when there is a legal judgement pending in February. This legal decision is fine, but we are taking a moral stand here, legal or not, imposition is morally wrong. Breaking of agreements is morally wrong. This is an industrial issue and it is important it is countered industrially, as well as through the Courts.
Questions have also been asked about LGW colleagues already working to inferior terms and conditions. The reason for this situation is well known (especially at LGW) and has historic origins emanating in merging with other airlines. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the LGW agreement they were negotiated by the Unions and agreed with by the membership. Just because one group of people struggle to make ends meet and work their socks off doesn’t mean that is the future for all crew.
Walsh is literally trying to turn the national airline of this country into Ryanair. Not only do we think the crew regard this as a step too far, but we are pretty sure most passengers do too.
If you are contacted by BA in any shape or form regarding this strike - decline to discuss it. You have no obligation to give any assurances or information as to your intentions. Politely say you have no comment.
We know the last 24 hours have been emotionally tough and come as a bit of a jolt to some. But remember we were backed into this corner by BA turning their back on both the negotiations and our offered savings, and then imposing changes to your terms and conditions. That simply left us with no choice to take the path we have all chosen by an incredible ballot result.
At this stressful time, it’s worth repeating an old clich� - “it is better to die on your feet than live on your knees”.
Because of this misleading info, some of you will have to field some awkward questions from friends, associates and passengers over the next few days. When on board or on duty we advise saying “it’s best I don’t comment” but "out of uniform" here are a few facts for you to consider and use when replying.
Remember it is still within BA’s power to stop this strike and restart talks now. All they have to do is to agree to revoke the imposition and replace (or pledge to replace) the crew that have been taken off. BASSA will find the £40m that this imposition generated. The ball is in Willie Walsh’s court although, sadly we have already noted he has rejected this offer. Quite simply the strike goes on because of him.
The “12 days” decision was not taken lightly, but it would have been unfair to have held a series of 3 day strikes because that would have exposed the small percentage of crews taking action the first time around. BA are “suspend happy” at the moment and early reprisals could have had an impact on resolve, so it was important all members will be asked to take part. We are all in this together, not just crew working over a 3 day period.
The Xmas decision was also given serious, serious thought. Although this action will cause real heartache amongst the public we have to consider our future employment and terms and conditions as a priority. Ruined Christmases will eventually be forgotten, certainly by next Christmas, but your terms and conditions are something you will have with you for the rest of your working life. BA must be made to see sense and it was reluctantly felt only "audacious" action would have any effect.
Lots of crew are talking “anonymously” to the press. Some clearly are not genuine crew members, but most are. Remind the media who talk to you that your job is on the line should your identity be revealed. That shows just what sort of company we work for and malevolent atmosphere BA have created. A frightened, bullied workforce.
BA have confirmed that five crew have been suspended on gross misconduct charges for making PA apologies to passengers for slow service - again this shows BA in its true colours. Some of these people are senior, well-respected CSDs who have given the company 30 years of loyalty. The media need to understand just how ruthless BA are under Willie Walsh. Remember this is a man who said you get nowhere with negotiating.
There has been some questions asking why strike when there is a legal judgement pending in February. This legal decision is fine, but we are taking a moral stand here, legal or not, imposition is morally wrong. Breaking of agreements is morally wrong. This is an industrial issue and it is important it is countered industrially, as well as through the Courts.
Questions have also been asked about LGW colleagues already working to inferior terms and conditions. The reason for this situation is well known (especially at LGW) and has historic origins emanating in merging with other airlines. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the LGW agreement they were negotiated by the Unions and agreed with by the membership. Just because one group of people struggle to make ends meet and work their socks off doesn’t mean that is the future for all crew.
Walsh is literally trying to turn the national airline of this country into Ryanair. Not only do we think the crew regard this as a step too far, but we are pretty sure most passengers do too.
If you are contacted by BA in any shape or form regarding this strike - decline to discuss it. You have no obligation to give any assurances or information as to your intentions. Politely say you have no comment.
We know the last 24 hours have been emotionally tough and come as a bit of a jolt to some. But remember we were backed into this corner by BA turning their back on both the negotiations and our offered savings, and then imposing changes to your terms and conditions. That simply left us with no choice to take the path we have all chosen by an incredible ballot result.
At this stressful time, it’s worth repeating an old clich� - “it is better to die on your feet than live on your knees”.
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Re: Heart attack on a short sector,
I've never understood this one, if there is a problem with a fire, IFE etc. the service comes a very distant second. If a second drink round or DF has to go then so be it.
I've never understood this one, if there is a problem with a fire, IFE etc. the service comes a very distant second. If a second drink round or DF has to go then so be it.
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Re: Heart attack on a short sector,
I've never understood this one, if there is a problem with a fire, IFE etc. the service comes a very distant second. If a second drink round or DF has to go then so be it.
I've never understood this one, if there is a problem with a fire, IFE etc. the service comes a very distant second. If a second drink round or DF has to go then so be it.
If you've a dodgy ticker and fancy a week-end in Paris, please go by boat!
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Pursers on 50k+ (old contracts)
staying in fancy hotels when you night stop (i know a certain one in edi thats used and its not the cheapests or closest)
I say this WW, I will a CC job for half the money and ill be happy with it ( just keep the fancy hotels with the spa tho)
staying in fancy hotels when you night stop (i know a certain one in edi thats used and its not the cheapests or closest)
I say this WW, I will a CC job for half the money and ill be happy with it ( just keep the fancy hotels with the spa tho)
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Or from another angle:
[/QUOTE]
As expected there have been some use of the facts that are being featured in the media regarding the dispute. It seems BA tactics are to provide the Press with some grossly accurate facts and figures, which they know will be fed to all media outlets and quoted throughout the coming weeks. We refer to the grossly accurate average earnings in particular. We will shortly publish our own wildly wrong figures.
Because of this accurate info, some of you will have to field some awkward questions from friends, associates and passengers over the next few days. When on board or on duty we advise rolling your eyes, tutting and muttering "oh for god's sake" if a passenger dares to ask you for a cup of tea, but "out of uniform" here are a few facts for you to consider and use when replying.
Remember it is still within BASSA’s power to stop this strike and restart talks now. All they have to do is to stop lying to you about what you have lost and accept that service works with the crew that have been taken off.
BASSA doesn't even know how to find the £40m that this imposition generated.
The ball is in Willie Walsh’s court although, sadly we have already noted he has rejected this offer. Quite simply the strike goes on because he is not scared of us, and we haven't got a clue what to do next.
The “12 days” decision was not taken lightly, but it would have been unfair to have held a series of 3 day strikes because that would have exposed the small percentage of crews taking action the first time around, and we'd rather get more of you caught in a possible legal nightmare. BA are “suspend happy” at the moment and early reprisals will almost certainly have an impact on resolve, so it was important to us that all members (except us) will be asked to take part. We (well, you actually) are all in this together, not just crew working over a 3 day period.
The Xmas decision was also given serious, serious thought. Although this action will cause real heartache amongst the public we have to consider the future of our fantastic little trips and wildly excessive perks. Ruined Christmases will eventually be forgotten by us, certainly by next Christmas, but your terms and conditions are something you will have with you for the rest of your working life. Not that it affects us, of course. BA must be made to see sense and it was reluctantly felt only "atrocious" action would have any effect.
Lots of crew are talking “anonymously” to the press. Some clearly are not genuine BASSA members, but most are. Remind the media who talk to you that your paint job is on the line should your identity be revealed. That shows just what sort of company we work for and malevolent atmosphere BASSA have created. A frightened, bullied workforce.
BA have confirmed that five crew have been suspended on gross misconduct charges for making PA apologies to passengers for slow service - again this shows BA in its true colours. Some of these people are senior, formerly-respected CSDs who have had from the company 30 years of luxury. The media need to understand just how ruthless BA are under Willie Walsh. Remember this is a man who said you get nowhere with BASSA by negotiating.
There has been some questions asking why strike when there is a legal judgement pending in February. This legal decision is fine, but we are taking a moral stand here, legal or not, imposition is morally wrong. Breaking of ludicrously outdated agreements is morally wrong, because we like them. This is an industrial issue and it is important it is countered industrially, as well as through the Courts.
Questions have also been asked about LGW colleagues already working to inferior terms and conditions. The reason for this situation is well known (especially at LGW) and has historic origins emanating in us not really caring what happens down there. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the LGW agreement they were accepted by the Unions and agreed on behalf of the membership. Just because one group of people struggle to make ends meet and work their socks off doesn’t mean we care.
Walsh is literally trying to turn the national airline of this country into a profit making company. Not only do we think the crew regard this as a step too far, but we are pretty sure most passengers don't really matter anyway.
If you are contacted by BA in any shape or form regarding this strike - decline to discuss it. You have no obligation to give any assurances or information as to your intentions. Politely say you have no job.
We know the last 24 hours have been emotionally tough and come as a bit of a jolt to some. But remember we were backed into this corner by BASSA turning our back on both the negotiations and our required savings, and then BASSA falsely claiming that BA were imposing changes to your terms and conditions. That simply left us with no choice to take the path we have chosen for you by an incredible ballot result.
At this stressful time, it’s worth repeating an old cliche - “I'm alright, Jack”.
Because of this accurate info, some of you will have to field some awkward questions from friends, associates and passengers over the next few days. When on board or on duty we advise rolling your eyes, tutting and muttering "oh for god's sake" if a passenger dares to ask you for a cup of tea, but "out of uniform" here are a few facts for you to consider and use when replying.
Remember it is still within BASSA’s power to stop this strike and restart talks now. All they have to do is to stop lying to you about what you have lost and accept that service works with the crew that have been taken off.
BASSA doesn't even know how to find the £40m that this imposition generated.
The ball is in Willie Walsh’s court although, sadly we have already noted he has rejected this offer. Quite simply the strike goes on because he is not scared of us, and we haven't got a clue what to do next.
The “12 days” decision was not taken lightly, but it would have been unfair to have held a series of 3 day strikes because that would have exposed the small percentage of crews taking action the first time around, and we'd rather get more of you caught in a possible legal nightmare. BA are “suspend happy” at the moment and early reprisals will almost certainly have an impact on resolve, so it was important to us that all members (except us) will be asked to take part. We (well, you actually) are all in this together, not just crew working over a 3 day period.
The Xmas decision was also given serious, serious thought. Although this action will cause real heartache amongst the public we have to consider the future of our fantastic little trips and wildly excessive perks. Ruined Christmases will eventually be forgotten by us, certainly by next Christmas, but your terms and conditions are something you will have with you for the rest of your working life. Not that it affects us, of course. BA must be made to see sense and it was reluctantly felt only "atrocious" action would have any effect.
Lots of crew are talking “anonymously” to the press. Some clearly are not genuine BASSA members, but most are. Remind the media who talk to you that your paint job is on the line should your identity be revealed. That shows just what sort of company we work for and malevolent atmosphere BASSA have created. A frightened, bullied workforce.
BA have confirmed that five crew have been suspended on gross misconduct charges for making PA apologies to passengers for slow service - again this shows BA in its true colours. Some of these people are senior, formerly-respected CSDs who have had from the company 30 years of luxury. The media need to understand just how ruthless BA are under Willie Walsh. Remember this is a man who said you get nowhere with BASSA by negotiating.
There has been some questions asking why strike when there is a legal judgement pending in February. This legal decision is fine, but we are taking a moral stand here, legal or not, imposition is morally wrong. Breaking of ludicrously outdated agreements is morally wrong, because we like them. This is an industrial issue and it is important it is countered industrially, as well as through the Courts.
Questions have also been asked about LGW colleagues already working to inferior terms and conditions. The reason for this situation is well known (especially at LGW) and has historic origins emanating in us not really caring what happens down there. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the LGW agreement they were accepted by the Unions and agreed on behalf of the membership. Just because one group of people struggle to make ends meet and work their socks off doesn’t mean we care.
Walsh is literally trying to turn the national airline of this country into a profit making company. Not only do we think the crew regard this as a step too far, but we are pretty sure most passengers don't really matter anyway.
If you are contacted by BA in any shape or form regarding this strike - decline to discuss it. You have no obligation to give any assurances or information as to your intentions. Politely say you have no job.
We know the last 24 hours have been emotionally tough and come as a bit of a jolt to some. But remember we were backed into this corner by BASSA turning our back on both the negotiations and our required savings, and then BASSA falsely claiming that BA were imposing changes to your terms and conditions. That simply left us with no choice to take the path we have chosen for you by an incredible ballot result.
At this stressful time, it’s worth repeating an old cliche - “I'm alright, Jack”.
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Then you clearly have never worked on short-haul
What I was getting at is the focus on doing the entire service. I have had situations where the CC have to have 3 hours legal break and suggested that the service be curtailed, or breakfast not done and be looked at like I'm mad
You can't carry extra crew members just in case there is a heart attack or the IFE fails, just adjust what you do.
Eurofleet CC reductions half truths
I have heard it quoted in the media that in some cases the number of CC is being reduced by upto 3 in Eurofleet?
This is not quite the case.
From the EUROFLEET Crew Matrix (eff 1 Dec 2009), the Airbus CC compliments are:
A319 3 to 5 CC depending on sector length and club load.
A320 4 to 5 CC (as above).
A321 5 to 6 CC (As above).
So if on a particular route an A319 (with a low club load) was utilised instead of an A321 (high club load) then one would see 3 CC vice 6.
Certainly not the same thing as Unite were quoting yesterday!
This is not quite the case.
From the EUROFLEET Crew Matrix (eff 1 Dec 2009), the Airbus CC compliments are:
A319 3 to 5 CC depending on sector length and club load.
A320 4 to 5 CC (as above).
A321 5 to 6 CC (As above).
So if on a particular route an A319 (with a low club load) was utilised instead of an A321 (high club load) then one would see 3 CC vice 6.
Certainly not the same thing as Unite were quoting yesterday!
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As a ex BA engineer I can only say you treated engineers and passengers like 2nd class. If BA go under the world outside isn't as pretty as your little world in BA. I cannot reason that you are going on strike over the holidays and you think you will get support from the outside.
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Cabin Crew Pay
This was sent to my by a Cabin Crew friend in October 2005
Obviously there has been the 2006, 2007 and 2008 pay rises since then, I believe the top earning CSD has a basic of £44,000
Added to this are box payments (taxable and NI) overtime payment (taxable and NI) and meal allowances (partly subject to tax) this adds for a longhaul crew member £18,000 pa and more for a CSD as their box/overtime payments are different slightly more
Just to dispel all conjecture over basic pay scales, they are as follows:
Junior Old Contract: £14,434 - £26,600 with 11 increments in between
Junior New Contract: £10,499 - £15,748 with 8 increments in between
Purser Old Contract: £24,574 - £32,631 with 17 increments in between
Purser New Contract: £18,282 - £32,631 with 23 increments in between
CSD Old Contract: £31,128 - £39,788 with 18 increments in between
CSD New Contract: £27,758 - £39,788 with 25 increments in between
Junior Old Contract: £14,434 - £26,600 with 11 increments in between
Junior New Contract: £10,499 - £15,748 with 8 increments in between
Purser Old Contract: £24,574 - £32,631 with 17 increments in between
Purser New Contract: £18,282 - £32,631 with 23 increments in between
CSD Old Contract: £31,128 - £39,788 with 18 increments in between
CSD New Contract: £27,758 - £39,788 with 25 increments in between
Added to this are box payments (taxable and NI) overtime payment (taxable and NI) and meal allowances (partly subject to tax) this adds for a longhaul crew member £18,000 pa and more for a CSD as their box/overtime payments are different slightly more
Why aren't you all furious ?
...with the union. Withdrawl of labour ok if that's what it comes to, but by calling it over the holiday period the union has surely shown that it wants to cause maximum disruption to the customers and doesn't mind the customers knowing it.. And who is in the frontline when facing customers,
a) the union
b) cabin crew
So hasn't the union calculatingly used you as its storm troopers ?
a) the union
b) cabin crew
So hasn't the union calculatingly used you as its storm troopers ?
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To the Ladies and Gentleman from BA's flight crew community who have posted anti cabin crew comments on this thread I say this to you.
When BA come after your big pensions which they will do next believe me, I will sit back and piss myself laughing.
You deserve everything your going to get.
When BA come after your big pensions which they will do next believe me, I will sit back and piss myself laughing.
You deserve everything your going to get.
Why don't you compare you Ts&Cs with the Engineers, the Ground Staff, Accounts, Marketing, X-Factor winners? The arguments put forward is about BA cabin crew and how they compare with other people doing similar jobs such as KLM and VS.
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Just Digressing For a Moment To Lighten Up (seeing as we're talking numbers of crew per aeroplane!)
My wife tells me that when she flew with Dan-Air on the HS748 Budgies from MME to LSI, the aeroplane held 50 burly oil rig men and she was the only crew member. The flight was about 1 hour duration and she had to do a full meal service, including feeding and watering the two pilots up front, and possibly a flight engineer.
Dan-Dare - didn't we just love 'em?
My wife tells me that when she flew with Dan-Air on the HS748 Budgies from MME to LSI, the aeroplane held 50 burly oil rig men and she was the only crew member. The flight was about 1 hour duration and she had to do a full meal service, including feeding and watering the two pilots up front, and possibly a flight engineer.
Dan-Dare - didn't we just love 'em?
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malcolmf, if you re-read my post I was not suggesting we carried an extra crew member just in case of heart-attacks! It was a light-hearted remark to demonstrate that with 0.6 minute per pax, it would be inconsiderate to have a heart-attack and rob your fellow customers of their 0.6 of a min.
To Perrin, I am sad that someone has treated you as second-class. I have never treated an engineer or a customer with anything less than respect and do not intend to either. Clearly I need to apologise on behalf of whoever made you feel this way and can only say that in all walks of life there will always be those who let the rest down.
To Perrin, I am sad that someone has treated you as second-class. I have never treated an engineer or a customer with anything less than respect and do not intend to either. Clearly I need to apologise on behalf of whoever made you feel this way and can only say that in all walks of life there will always be those who let the rest down.