British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: england
Age: 62
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Road not Taken
I have seen many votes for industrial action but quite often one or other of the sides have usually backed down at the 11th hour.It is easy to vote for it or turn up at mass meetings but it is another to actually `withold your labour`.I think this time it is different.It will be quite terrfying and frightening on day 1 of the strike.I know, I have been there once and hated it and was almost sick with worry on that day,as many of you will be.It is your livelyhood on the line and quite understandable.
Recentley I went to a meeting where the question was asked,`Can BA afford to take on the Cabin crew?`And the answer came back `This time BA can`t afford not to take on the cabin crew`To that end don`t forget BA have 2000 cabin crew too many due to the grounding of 15 aircraft.If 500 crew are sacked on day one ,whether rightly or wrongly, just imagine how you will feel if you have to go to work on day 2 or 3 or 4.And after 2000 people have been sacked there are still enough crew to run a full operation.WW is out to win this one.Those people sacked will be out of a job immediately.They may get compensation etc for unfair dismissal but how long will that take when you have a family,kids,mortgage and just before xmas.I think on the day of the strike most crew will wait and watch to see what happens to the first few.If he starts sacking the first few hundred then I would predict that it will crystalize a few peoples minds.Are the gains versus the losses now really worth it.Your bluff would have been called .
It would be interesting to see who has booked/recently arranged leave for the first few days of the strike.
I would urge all of you to read Robert Frost`s `The road not taken` .Once the fork in the road is passed there is no turning back.
Recentley I went to a meeting where the question was asked,`Can BA afford to take on the Cabin crew?`And the answer came back `This time BA can`t afford not to take on the cabin crew`To that end don`t forget BA have 2000 cabin crew too many due to the grounding of 15 aircraft.If 500 crew are sacked on day one ,whether rightly or wrongly, just imagine how you will feel if you have to go to work on day 2 or 3 or 4.And after 2000 people have been sacked there are still enough crew to run a full operation.WW is out to win this one.Those people sacked will be out of a job immediately.They may get compensation etc for unfair dismissal but how long will that take when you have a family,kids,mortgage and just before xmas.I think on the day of the strike most crew will wait and watch to see what happens to the first few.If he starts sacking the first few hundred then I would predict that it will crystalize a few peoples minds.Are the gains versus the losses now really worth it.Your bluff would have been called .
It would be interesting to see who has booked/recently arranged leave for the first few days of the strike.
I would urge all of you to read Robert Frost`s `The road not taken` .Once the fork in the road is passed there is no turning back.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fly380 - I just checked BA.com in the UK and GS-Alphas figures are correct-ish. I can see 103 Euros every day from Friday 18th to Thursday 24th, with the exception of Sunday 20th which is 894 euros, but the flight is into London City, not Heathrow. It's 894 euros if you want to fly one way into LHR over that week, but then who'd do that when you can get a return ticket to LHR for about 200 euros over those periods?
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying Chick
check out this government website
Industrial action and trade unions : Directgov - Employment
very very clear!!!
How you can not even be bothered to read some basic info is truly staggering.
So my question remains.
Will Willie stump up 66,000 x "y"strikers....... let's say 66,000 x 2,000 = 132,000,000 on day 1.
check out this government website
Industrial action and trade unions : Directgov - Employment
very very clear!!!
How you can not even be bothered to read some basic info is truly staggering.
So my question remains.
Will Willie stump up 66,000 x "y"strikers....... let's say 66,000 x 2,000 = 132,000,000 on day 1.
Maybe I get different prices being in Spain. I cannot come up with anything less than 894 euros even from Barcelona to Heathrow. Even 103 euros is 3 times Easyjet. Sorry to interupt the debate - please carry on.
Whoops just checked Ryanair Mad - Lgw 21st Dec. 20 euros including taxes and online check-in. Only baggage extra if paying with visa electron which I have.
Whoops just checked Ryanair Mad - Lgw 21st Dec. 20 euros including taxes and online check-in. Only baggage extra if paying with visa electron which I have.
Last edited by Fly380; 3rd Nov 2009 at 19:24. Reason: Addition
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a BA pilot I am totally against my cabin crew colleagues going on strike. However, if that strike happens - and it happens legally - and any of my colleagues were to be sacked for going on strike, I would be first to demand that the rest of us take action to support them.
(Not married to, going out with etc etc any of them, btw!).
To be absolutely clear, I would NOT support the strike but I WOULD support anyone sacked as a result of going out on a legal strike.
(Not married to, going out with etc etc any of them, btw!).
To be absolutely clear, I would NOT support the strike but I WOULD support anyone sacked as a result of going out on a legal strike.
Oliveruk200 - that's the figure that comes up using my computer in Spain. It is the Club Europe price but I selected cheapest fare. It's a mystery or is it?
British Airways - Plan your journey
Try that Oliver.
British Airways - Plan your journey
Try that Oliver.
Last edited by Fly380; 3rd Nov 2009 at 19:34. Reason: Addition
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The strike originated in CEO Bob Ayling’s Business Efficiency Programme,
designed to cut £1 billion in BA’s costs. This affected cabin crew through new
starter rates and redesigned work loads. In the 1990s two unions represented
cabin crew at BA, the majority (10,000 members) Transport & General
Workers’ Union (TGWU) and minority (2,000 members) Cabin Crew ’89.
In 1997 BA signed an agreement with Cabin Crew ’89 which it then claimed
was binding on all staff. This left the TGWU with little option but to ballot
its members on strike action. In fact only about a quarter of TGWU cabin
crew actually went on strike; the rest went sick. BA claimed that the TGWU
The Journal of Transport History 23/1
organised the ‘sick-out’, although such a tactic would have been an admission
of weakness for any union.59 Even by British industrial dispute standards, the
levels of intimidation by BA management were widely regarded as excessive,
with even the normally conservative Daily Mail, Sun and Daily Telegraph
newspapers condemning its heavyhandedness.
............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ..................The above is just a little blast from the past.
designed to cut £1 billion in BA’s costs. This affected cabin crew through new
starter rates and redesigned work loads. In the 1990s two unions represented
cabin crew at BA, the majority (10,000 members) Transport & General
Workers’ Union (TGWU) and minority (2,000 members) Cabin Crew ’89.
In 1997 BA signed an agreement with Cabin Crew ’89 which it then claimed
was binding on all staff. This left the TGWU with little option but to ballot
its members on strike action. In fact only about a quarter of TGWU cabin
crew actually went on strike; the rest went sick. BA claimed that the TGWU
The Journal of Transport History 23/1
organised the ‘sick-out’, although such a tactic would have been an admission
of weakness for any union.59 Even by British industrial dispute standards, the
levels of intimidation by BA management were widely regarded as excessive,
with even the normally conservative Daily Mail, Sun and Daily Telegraph
newspapers condemning its heavyhandedness.
............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ..................The above is just a little blast from the past.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: LONDON
Age: 44
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a quick question for all of you guys at waterside oooops sorry mean all of you ppruners.
You say if cabin crew go on strike they will be sacked by WW.
Why didn't he sack the ground staff when they walked out on offical industrial action a few years ago?
Nice try but we don't believe everything you try and feed us.
You say if cabin crew go on strike they will be sacked by WW.
Why didn't he sack the ground staff when they walked out on offical industrial action a few years ago?
Nice try but we don't believe everything you try and feed us.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London
Age: 66
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why don't we all wait until 5th November to see what the outcome of the court case will be before assuming there will be a strike. If it goes Bassa's way we have to wait for the ballot results early in December.
There are a few obstacles in the way though.
If a trade union cannot reach a collective agreement with the employer, an employer can impose changes other than contractual changes providing 90 days notice is given. Did BA not give the 90 days notice? Or will the court be deliberating over whether one cabin crew removed from an aircraft is a contractual change or not?
After reading most of these threads I get the impression the union only really wants to turn the clock back so they can start negotiating now.
Is now too late for BA to re-open negotiations with them?
I wish the cabin crew the best of luck.
There are a few obstacles in the way though.
If a trade union cannot reach a collective agreement with the employer, an employer can impose changes other than contractual changes providing 90 days notice is given. Did BA not give the 90 days notice? Or will the court be deliberating over whether one cabin crew removed from an aircraft is a contractual change or not?
After reading most of these threads I get the impression the union only really wants to turn the clock back so they can start negotiating now.
Is now too late for BA to re-open negotiations with them?
I wish the cabin crew the best of luck.
Junior trash
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why didn't he sack the ground staff when they walked out on offical industrial action a few years ago?
GS-Alpha - check the link on post 2604.
OK I have just checked with my son in the UK and 103 it is but when selected from Spain it is 894. Doesn't make sense. Is it a software glitch or don't BA want people flying just from MAD - LHR and booking in Spain? Very strange.
OK I have just checked with my son in the UK and 103 it is but when selected from Spain it is 894. Doesn't make sense. Is it a software glitch or don't BA want people flying just from MAD - LHR and booking in Spain? Very strange.
Last edited by Fly380; 3rd Nov 2009 at 20:32. Reason: Addition
Join Date: May 2003
Location: london
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mandyconn said
Suprised your back, last I heard you were off to get us all hauled into court and pprune shut down for cutting and pasting from the BASSA forum, care to share with us what the BASSA legal team said on the subject???............................. nah thought not.Credibility 0
Just a quick question for all of you guys at waterside oooops sorry mean all of you ppruners.
You say if cabin crew go on strike they will be sacked by WW.
Why didn't he sack the ground staff when they walked out on offical industrial action a few years ago?
Nice try but we don't believe everything you try and feed us.
You say if cabin crew go on strike they will be sacked by WW.
Why didn't he sack the ground staff when they walked out on offical industrial action a few years ago?
Nice try but we don't believe everything you try and feed us.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 35,000 ft
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any chance we can keep to topic on this thread.....some of our livelihoods depend on it.....
LGW....... I totally agree with you about the need for negotation - but as Midman pointed out, why oh why haven't they negotiated so far? Walking out of slideshows, refusing to be in the same room as Amicus reps, turning up late, come on.....you seem like a reasonable person...you must see that they have brought this upon us unnecessarily?
The other point about whether BA will or won't sack strikers is somewhat superficial to the argument. So Mandyconn, FlyingChick Watersidewonker et al are gung ho for a strike. Good for them. I am not. And I speak to people I fly with all the time who also are not. It's amazing but once you speak to people and say outright "I don't support a strike", they open up and admit that they don't either. The relief that they have been allowed to express it freely is palpable.
So MC, FC, WW et al good luck to you. As 7heroes says it all boils down to whether on Day 1 of the strike you have the guts to carry it out. I remember last time round people virtually in tears the day before because they didn't know what to do. I doubt very much that all the Yes Voters would have carried it off. So, you probably will. Can you bank on everyone else doing the same.
So you take that chance. You sit at home, by the roadside picket, wherever on strike WONDERING HOW MANY ARE GOING TO DO IT OR IF YOU'LL BE THE ONLY ONES. My bet is you will be very disappointed...and isolated... and broke.
Oh...and very interesting point about 70% of crew being female yet pictures show mostly males at the meeting. Perhaps the mothers with children didn't want to go to a pointless BASSA meeting, in much the same way that they won't support a pointless strike as they will still have to pay for childcare, school fees, school clubs, swimming lessons, etc. strike or no strike. Another thing to think about when lighting the picket fires.
LGW....... I totally agree with you about the need for negotation - but as Midman pointed out, why oh why haven't they negotiated so far? Walking out of slideshows, refusing to be in the same room as Amicus reps, turning up late, come on.....you seem like a reasonable person...you must see that they have brought this upon us unnecessarily?
The other point about whether BA will or won't sack strikers is somewhat superficial to the argument. So Mandyconn, FlyingChick Watersidewonker et al are gung ho for a strike. Good for them. I am not. And I speak to people I fly with all the time who also are not. It's amazing but once you speak to people and say outright "I don't support a strike", they open up and admit that they don't either. The relief that they have been allowed to express it freely is palpable.
So MC, FC, WW et al good luck to you. As 7heroes says it all boils down to whether on Day 1 of the strike you have the guts to carry it out. I remember last time round people virtually in tears the day before because they didn't know what to do. I doubt very much that all the Yes Voters would have carried it off. So, you probably will. Can you bank on everyone else doing the same.
So you take that chance. You sit at home, by the roadside picket, wherever on strike WONDERING HOW MANY ARE GOING TO DO IT OR IF YOU'LL BE THE ONLY ONES. My bet is you will be very disappointed...and isolated... and broke.
Oh...and very interesting point about 70% of crew being female yet pictures show mostly males at the meeting. Perhaps the mothers with children didn't want to go to a pointless BASSA meeting, in much the same way that they won't support a pointless strike as they will still have to pay for childcare, school fees, school clubs, swimming lessons, etc. strike or no strike. Another thing to think about when lighting the picket fires.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm CSD and I will follow the guidelines to the letter.
I will be at the door for the entire duration of the boarding,sorry no help with anything on boarding.
I will ensure all details on every boarding card are correct,after I have ensured all your security checks are completed correctly.
I will be on the trolley doing my role as required so......
1/ Sorry I will NOT be sorting out any IFE until I've finished.
2/ I will be unable to speak to any passengers be it for a complaint or compliment.
3/ I will be doing my walk round on the hour every hour.
Do not come having a go at me because thing are going wrong.Go and have a word with BF or even WW.
I will be at the door for the entire duration of the boarding,sorry no help with anything on boarding.
I will ensure all details on every boarding card are correct,after I have ensured all your security checks are completed correctly.
I will be on the trolley doing my role as required so......
1/ Sorry I will NOT be sorting out any IFE until I've finished.
2/ I will be unable to speak to any passengers be it for a complaint or compliment.
3/ I will be doing my walk round on the hour every hour.
Do not come having a go at me because thing are going wrong.Go and have a word with BF or even WW.
As a CSD, I shall ensure that the service standards guidelines are adhered to - to the letter. No cross branding, no raiding crew trolleys for pax, legal break timings, the lot.
That's my job, after all.
I also have a lovely pile of comment cards at the ready. I will still be professional and smile and be friendly. Just like I've always done!
That's my job, after all.
I also have a lovely pile of comment cards at the ready. I will still be professional and smile and be friendly. Just like I've always done!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread is a poison pool. The usual suspects here still going on about BA's cabin crew facing dismissal, tribunals etc. Just a load of rubbish and the same old stuff now for over a year.
When the yes vote comes in, Walsh wont have an airline. He couldn't even deal with the opening of T5. Loads of flights the other day were delayed because of one aircraft arriving from EWR with 6 collapsed passengers. It will be mayhem and the government will have to step in as Walsh will not back down. His career is on the line now and the current government are not going to stand by and see him wreck BA like he has Aer Lingus.
The Board had better realise they have picked a duffer in Walsh and he needs to go.
When the yes vote comes in, Walsh wont have an airline. He couldn't even deal with the opening of T5. Loads of flights the other day were delayed because of one aircraft arriving from EWR with 6 collapsed passengers. It will be mayhem and the government will have to step in as Walsh will not back down. His career is on the line now and the current government are not going to stand by and see him wreck BA like he has Aer Lingus.
The Board had better realise they have picked a duffer in Walsh and he needs to go.