BA and Project Columbus
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Apologies again. I was just going by what friends at EF have told me (I'm not EF).
Looking away from the details of whether allowances are made up from meal/box/cat etc. The whole point of me posting was to make you think and that was it. Nothing sinister, no hidden agenda.
I've specifically not posted my fleet (although you can easily find out) as then that would turn this into another issue which has been discussed to the end of the earth, and it isn't the topic for this thread.
Gg
Looking away from the details of whether allowances are made up from meal/box/cat etc. The whole point of me posting was to make you think and that was it. Nothing sinister, no hidden agenda.
I've specifically not posted my fleet (although you can easily find out) as then that would turn this into another issue which has been discussed to the end of the earth, and it isn't the topic for this thread.
Gg
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I am sorry GlamGirl, I am from the same base as you are and I do not wish to struggle on pocketmoney until I retire. Earning 1300-1500 every month is not an option specially if someone does not live with parents/ husband.I fully understand my colleagues at LHR, they make some good money but life isnt cheap either.
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Newbagirl,
I've never said I wanted LHR crew to earn as little as other bases. I didn't involve my own base for that reason. Our pay structure is not the topic of this thread.
All I wanted, was for crew to consider other options, instead of saying "no, we're not doing that - we're going on strike", before any facts are known.
What we have to remember in this whole saga, is that the "leaked" document was a draft. Not a proposal, not a final offer. It's nowhere near the negotiating table yet, and it won't necessarily be as bad as people think when it does. We do though, as much as we don't want to, realise that things have to change. As an example, Singapore Airlines has announced that they're cutting over 200 flights between now and March. It's a scary, uncertain future and we need to try to protect our jobs to be able to pay our mortgages/rent and bills.
Gg
I've never said I wanted LHR crew to earn as little as other bases. I didn't involve my own base for that reason. Our pay structure is not the topic of this thread.
All I wanted, was for crew to consider other options, instead of saying "no, we're not doing that - we're going on strike", before any facts are known.
What we have to remember in this whole saga, is that the "leaked" document was a draft. Not a proposal, not a final offer. It's nowhere near the negotiating table yet, and it won't necessarily be as bad as people think when it does. We do though, as much as we don't want to, realise that things have to change. As an example, Singapore Airlines has announced that they're cutting over 200 flights between now and March. It's a scary, uncertain future and we need to try to protect our jobs to be able to pay our mortgages/rent and bills.
Gg
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again yes we do get the short turnaround payments, they are known as CAT payments.
glamgirl, if you took the time to speak to crew at LHR you would quickly discover that few of us are in the mood for striking. we are keenly aware that times are tough within the industry and also accept that some parts of our operations at LHR could do with modernising. but a wholescale downgrading of our pay is not something any of us can accept. I don't mind working more if it means maintaining my salary but we all live to our means and I really cannot afford a pay cut- and I do not live lavishly believe me!
glamgirl, if you took the time to speak to crew at LHR you would quickly discover that few of us are in the mood for striking. we are keenly aware that times are tough within the industry and also accept that some parts of our operations at LHR could do with modernising. but a wholescale downgrading of our pay is not something any of us can accept. I don't mind working more if it means maintaining my salary but we all live to our means and I really cannot afford a pay cut- and I do not live lavishly believe me!
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Galanjal,
I speak to LHR based crew several times a week, so please don't assume I don't. An alarming amount of LHR based crew I've talked to are saying things like "over my dead body/no way/not in my lifetime" etc. I'm fully aware that some of the LHR community would like hourly pay, others wouldn't. We're all different, and that's what makes the world go round.
If you have a look at the company forum, you can see for yourself, that a heck of a lot of differences are around, and tempers running high. I'm just trying to have an adult discussion.
You saying you don't mind working a bit more for same amount of money is a great step for discussion. I'd hate for anyone at LHR to lose out on money, and I think very few of us, regardless which base we're at are living the high life (unless it's on credit).
Gg
I speak to LHR based crew several times a week, so please don't assume I don't. An alarming amount of LHR based crew I've talked to are saying things like "over my dead body/no way/not in my lifetime" etc. I'm fully aware that some of the LHR community would like hourly pay, others wouldn't. We're all different, and that's what makes the world go round.
If you have a look at the company forum, you can see for yourself, that a heck of a lot of differences are around, and tempers running high. I'm just trying to have an adult discussion.
You saying you don't mind working a bit more for same amount of money is a great step for discussion. I'd hate for anyone at LHR to lose out on money, and I think very few of us, regardless which base we're at are living the high life (unless it's on credit).
Gg
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I take your point that nothing has been said officially said by the company
glamgirl you are right when you say there are crew who say 'over my dead body' but the majority that i fly with accept that changes are coming and indeed are needed to keep us competative in the current climate.
glamgirl you are right when you say there are crew who say 'over my dead body' but the majority that i fly with accept that changes are coming and indeed are needed to keep us competative in the current climate.
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GG to be honest you have made yourself look a bit of a fool, posting about things you obviously know nothing about ie. no bidding on shorthaul , box payments on shothaul , no more cat payments. I already work to my max legal hours and for a salary ( ex allowences ) that is barley Min wage just over 200 pw. therfore £5 ph based on a 40hr week.
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I beg to differ. I think GG has been one of the few crew who've actually posted a realistic perspective on what lies ahead rather than the 'Just say NO' attitude many seem to have. So what if she's got the names of payments wrong, we all know WW get Box and Destination payments and EF have a bidding system and CAT (aka short turnaround) payments. Bearing in mind that you don't earn minimum wage (nobody in BA does) and you supplement your income handsomely with allowances and other payments I think you should be rather careful about who you call a fool, especially as you clearly haven't read GGs posts properly.
Junior trash
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I already work to my max legal hours and for a salary ( ex allowences ) that is barley Min wage just over 200 pw. therfore £5 ph based on a 40hr week.
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Given that it's illegal to pay you less than minimum wage (there are no exemptions for transport workers) I think your calculations are a little askew. How are you calculating that?
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as stated figs are net. 863 pm x 12 = 10356/52 = 199.15 pw dived by 40 = £4.97 or 35 hr week = 5.69 or 37.5hrs = 5.31.
I think that the main focus of FOC is the old contract. people are earning 3 times my basic and thats just as main crew.
No other industry would you expect people to earn less than they were employed to .
Comparing to other areas of the industry is just silly. we all joined our jobs knowing what we signed up for and thats it.
You would not employ a doctor or bin man and then say "well you earn a lot more than a polish doctor/binman therefore we are going to cut your salary"
Future Employees may be employed on a different set of conditions but don't affect mine, we all live to our means .
I think that the main focus of FOC is the old contract. people are earning 3 times my basic and thats just as main crew.
No other industry would you expect people to earn less than they were employed to .
Comparing to other areas of the industry is just silly. we all joined our jobs knowing what we signed up for and thats it.
You would not employ a doctor or bin man and then say "well you earn a lot more than a polish doctor/binman therefore we are going to cut your salary"
Future Employees may be employed on a different set of conditions but don't affect mine, we all live to our means .
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The Moo. Basic starting salary for new recruits is £11400. Are you part time?
Glamgirl. You've been at BA for 10 years and have no knowledge of how IFS works. It somewhat devalues you post. However I do agree that when a proposal is forwarded then there will be something to be discussed. Quite a few of us at LHR would consider an hourly rate, if it was the correct and compensating rate for other lost payments. But, as was shown with the creation of single fleet and, as was contained within the draft document this would not be the case. Oh, and BASSA do speak for 8000 of the 11000 crew at LHR and they haven't made calls for strike action, 'over our dead bodies' statements or similar. What they have done is brought the document to the early attention of their membership and asked the company (at the last NSP) to respond accordingly. My understanding is that the company chose to ignore discussion about the document. Until then we can only, and pointlessly speculate about the pros and cons of Columbus.
Lets wait and see, then start the discussion.
Top Bunk. I did mis-interpret yor post. Sorry. It was 'bills through the letterbox day'. Not a good day for any of us I'm certain.
Glamgirl. You've been at BA for 10 years and have no knowledge of how IFS works. It somewhat devalues you post. However I do agree that when a proposal is forwarded then there will be something to be discussed. Quite a few of us at LHR would consider an hourly rate, if it was the correct and compensating rate for other lost payments. But, as was shown with the creation of single fleet and, as was contained within the draft document this would not be the case. Oh, and BASSA do speak for 8000 of the 11000 crew at LHR and they haven't made calls for strike action, 'over our dead bodies' statements or similar. What they have done is brought the document to the early attention of their membership and asked the company (at the last NSP) to respond accordingly. My understanding is that the company chose to ignore discussion about the document. Until then we can only, and pointlessly speculate about the pros and cons of Columbus.
Lets wait and see, then start the discussion.
Top Bunk. I did mis-interpret yor post. Sorry. It was 'bills through the letterbox day'. Not a good day for any of us I'm certain.
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PC767,
I'd beg to differ in regards to whether I know anything about IFS. I don't know how you can see that I know nothing about it, to be honest.
For those who say how didn't I know EF had a bidding system, I haven't said they don't, I just said the bidding can be improved with people bidding for different trips instead of bidding for the ones that earn them the most money.
LHR crew are obviously sensitive about this subject, and rightly so, but accusing others of knowing nothing and claiming to know what myself and other posters are thinking is not well thought out and plainly not here nor there.
Gg
Ps. Apologies again for getting some terminology wrong, but nobody's perfect
I'd beg to differ in regards to whether I know anything about IFS. I don't know how you can see that I know nothing about it, to be honest.
For those who say how didn't I know EF had a bidding system, I haven't said they don't, I just said the bidding can be improved with people bidding for different trips instead of bidding for the ones that earn them the most money.
LHR crew are obviously sensitive about this subject, and rightly so, but accusing others of knowing nothing and claiming to know what myself and other posters are thinking is not well thought out and plainly not here nor there.
Gg
Ps. Apologies again for getting some terminology wrong, but nobody's perfect
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As HZ123 and PC767 have already alluded to, the biggest problem for current CC is that there appears to be an endless queue of potential new CC who seem to ignore the T & C in their belief that just by wearing the uniform whilst shopping in Sainsbury's, Tesco's or more likely Lidl will somehow make up for the lack of money at the end of the month. Indeed, I had a beer with one of the CC recruiters who openly said BA are looking at 'new to Crew' starters rather than other CC as these 'newies' are far more impressionable and in her words 'starstruck'.
The question is how low can BA dare go with their knife to CC's T & C's before people refuse to keep knocking at the CC door.
The question is how low can BA dare go with their knife to CC's T & C's before people refuse to keep knocking at the CC door.