BA and Project Columbus
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Is it all just speculation? I'm sure the leaked Columbus document stated that crew would be on A319/320/321, A280 and B777.
The hourly rate could well be over £2.80, they'd just need to make sure the tax burden was comparable to the existing meal allowances, a proportion of which are already taxed.
The hourly rate could well be over £2.80, they'd just need to make sure the tax burden was comparable to the existing meal allowances, a proportion of which are already taxed.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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The hourly rate is not necessarily a bad thing. If BASSA can get the amount spent on allowances by BA secured and redistributed as an hourly rate then the only people who will lose out will be the senior CSDs and others who have a friend in scheduling.
But the idea is to save cash not redistribute it. If the current IFS cash was repackaged into a single hourly rate, then I would support the suggestion. Fairness and transparency.
But the idea is to slash costs. And any suggestion from LGW crew and Flightdeck crew that there is no room for further cuts to their divisions is highly dangerous. Walsh has set the ball rolling and no doubt his successors will keep pushing it along. BA now stands for grab what you can for as little as you can. It is the turn of LHR cabin crew now, then who?
But the idea is to save cash not redistribute it. If the current IFS cash was repackaged into a single hourly rate, then I would support the suggestion. Fairness and transparency.
But the idea is to slash costs. And any suggestion from LGW crew and Flightdeck crew that there is no room for further cuts to their divisions is highly dangerous. Walsh has set the ball rolling and no doubt his successors will keep pushing it along. BA now stands for grab what you can for as little as you can. It is the turn of LHR cabin crew now, then who?
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The trouble is, the senior CSDs who would lose out are the ones running Bassa, and woe betide anyone who questions the received wisdom of the 'Bassa world view'.
The younger cabin crew who would benefit hugely from the hourly rate and a reasonable preference system don't get a look in.
The younger cabin crew who would benefit hugely from the hourly rate and a reasonable preference system don't get a look in.
Last edited by Classic; 1st Jan 2009 at 19:57.
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PC 767 is spot on...ba have no intention or redistributing the overall cabin crew pay more evenly and fairly.they are not taking all this time to remain where they are now as regards the overall pay costs.swopping allowances per destination, for an hourly rate,not a chance.the idea must be to cut costs and that means reducing current pay and conditions,that has to be of concern to existing employees !
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O'stress
No, cabin crew aren't licensed.
Bermuda,
How do you know that BA aren't willing to redistribute the existing pot of cabin crew pay? The company can make huge savings by introducing the hourly rate because it is so easy to administer, compared to the massively complex allowances system - it also means you don't mind where you go, and don't lose out so much in a bad month or if you're ill.
Amazingly, it can also be made pensionable so you don't have to be doling out chix or beef into your 60s!
Decent negotiation by Bassa could achieve all that, without losing you a penny (except the 25year CSDs on 60k+)
No, cabin crew aren't licensed.
Bermuda,
How do you know that BA aren't willing to redistribute the existing pot of cabin crew pay? The company can make huge savings by introducing the hourly rate because it is so easy to administer, compared to the massively complex allowances system - it also means you don't mind where you go, and don't lose out so much in a bad month or if you're ill.
Amazingly, it can also be made pensionable so you don't have to be doling out chix or beef into your 60s!
Decent negotiation by Bassa could achieve all that, without losing you a penny (except the 25year CSDs on 60k+)
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We will just have to wait and see the actual proposal. If, and it is a big if, the pot is merely redistributed then I can see the reaction being predominantly positive. But I am certain this will not be the case, unfortunately.
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I think that most longhaul crew would go for the hourly rate if the whole pot was redistributed.
The reason being , The harder you work the more you get paid. On the current system you could do 5 India or east coast night stops totalling 80 - 90 hours flying in one month and earn half what you could if you did just 2 premium trips, total of 50 -55 hrs.
The beneifits for the company are:
We are told that there would be less tax therefore less NI to be paid by the company,saving the company millions per year.
Sickness should be reduced as under the current system if you get a rubbish roster some people just think "sod it" and go sick thinking "it can't get any worse and I might pickup a premium trip"
Can i just add I,ve only ever been off sick once and it wasn't down to a crap roster.
The reason being , The harder you work the more you get paid. On the current system you could do 5 India or east coast night stops totalling 80 - 90 hours flying in one month and earn half what you could if you did just 2 premium trips, total of 50 -55 hrs.
The beneifits for the company are:
We are told that there would be less tax therefore less NI to be paid by the company,saving the company millions per year.
Sickness should be reduced as under the current system if you get a rubbish roster some people just think "sod it" and go sick thinking "it can't get any worse and I might pickup a premium trip"
Can i just add I,ve only ever been off sick once and it wasn't down to a crap roster.
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Lovethesky, you said,
"us crew will get no support from flight crew on here, most pilots cant wait for us to be on the hourly rate. they cant wait for us to be screwed over.
well they are stupid if they think it will end with the crew, im sure they will be back to look at the pilots soon.
there is nothing to stop ba doing this to them, as there are now plenty of pilots out there looking for jobs."
Consider yourself supported by one member of flight crew. ATB
"us crew will get no support from flight crew on here, most pilots cant wait for us to be on the hourly rate. they cant wait for us to be screwed over.
well they are stupid if they think it will end with the crew, im sure they will be back to look at the pilots soon.
there is nothing to stop ba doing this to them, as there are now plenty of pilots out there looking for jobs."
Consider yourself supported by one member of flight crew. ATB
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The hourly rate works to an extent.
At LGW there is only ONE RATE. £2.37 or something. That's the same no matter if your sitting on a beach or flying on a jet.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Flight Crew have two tier rate? One for sitting ona beach (or in a hotel room), and one for flying a jet.
The flying rate is much higher than the non-flying one, so more work = more pay.
A sensible solution, that seems to work for most. Those who wish to earn more bust their nuts flying. Those who wish to sit on a beach doing 6 day BGIs do exactly that, but earn less as a result.
At LGW with only one rate for everything, it has created a two class flying programme. 7 day UVF trips crew earn the most for not really much work. While some of their colleagues are earning far less for busting their humps doing shorthaul doing 4 sectors days and PFO there and backs.
The senior people cream all the good stuff through the bidding system, and senior main crew end up earning more than the in-charge crew members, making promotion unattractive.
Sound familiar to any BA pilots out there?
Negotiation is the key to this situation. I only hope BASSA are interested in negotiation, and not putting out propoganda.
At LGW there is only ONE RATE. £2.37 or something. That's the same no matter if your sitting on a beach or flying on a jet.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Flight Crew have two tier rate? One for sitting ona beach (or in a hotel room), and one for flying a jet.
The flying rate is much higher than the non-flying one, so more work = more pay.
A sensible solution, that seems to work for most. Those who wish to earn more bust their nuts flying. Those who wish to sit on a beach doing 6 day BGIs do exactly that, but earn less as a result.
At LGW with only one rate for everything, it has created a two class flying programme. 7 day UVF trips crew earn the most for not really much work. While some of their colleagues are earning far less for busting their humps doing shorthaul doing 4 sectors days and PFO there and backs.
The senior people cream all the good stuff through the bidding system, and senior main crew end up earning more than the in-charge crew members, making promotion unattractive.
Sound familiar to any BA pilots out there?
Negotiation is the key to this situation. I only hope BASSA are interested in negotiation, and not putting out propoganda.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but the Flight Crew have two tier rate? One for sitting ona beach (or in a hotel room), and one for flying a jet.
The TAFB is paid from check in to check out at the end of the trip and replaces allowances. The Flying pay element is paid for flying out done. As most pilots fly the same number of hours per year, we all earn the same flying pay element, so we don't really care where we fly to as far as money is concerned.
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Pinkaroo
This thread is not about pilots pay, and the answer is not a simple yes/no.
What I was doing was trying to point out a misconception/error in a previous post by giving facts.
This thread is not about pilots pay, and the answer is not a simple yes/no.
What I was doing was trying to point out a misconception/error in a previous post by giving facts.
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Pinkaroo,
The benefits of hourly rate mean the differential between destinations is largely eliminated, resulting in far smaller differences in pay between junior and senior pilots.
I'd never want go back to allowance based pay, and I think cc would see a similar result if they switched to the hourly rate.
The benefits of hourly rate mean the differential between destinations is largely eliminated, resulting in far smaller differences in pay between junior and senior pilots.
I'd never want go back to allowance based pay, and I think cc would see a similar result if they switched to the hourly rate.
To carry on with this "Flight Crew Pay " thread.
Classic: I agree..the main effect of moving to an hourly ( allowances) rate was that places like NRT ceased to be err, popular, and people tried to bid for lifestyle reasons, rather than following the dollar / pound signs. Some senior people lost out ( both Captains and F/O's - myself included), but like you I would never want to go back to "destination pay".
As for our Cabin Crew Colleagues - I reckon you need to see some numbers from BASSA and/or BA and do your own calculations before you can make an objective call on this.
As an aside, comments from claiming that the Flight Crew can't wait for Cabin Crew "to be screwed over" well and truely **** me off... I thought we Flight Crew dinosaurs were the employees supposedly guilty of stereotyping all and sundry.....seems there are dinosaurs amongst the Cabin crew as well....
Classic: I agree..the main effect of moving to an hourly ( allowances) rate was that places like NRT ceased to be err, popular, and people tried to bid for lifestyle reasons, rather than following the dollar / pound signs. Some senior people lost out ( both Captains and F/O's - myself included), but like you I would never want to go back to "destination pay".
As for our Cabin Crew Colleagues - I reckon you need to see some numbers from BASSA and/or BA and do your own calculations before you can make an objective call on this.
As an aside, comments from claiming that the Flight Crew can't wait for Cabin Crew "to be screwed over" well and truely **** me off... I thought we Flight Crew dinosaurs were the employees supposedly guilty of stereotyping all and sundry.....seems there are dinosaurs amongst the Cabin crew as well....
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There are some nasty bits of work in the cockpit that can't wait for us "to be screwed over". Last year down in JNB some pilots loudy said that cabin crew are both overpaid and underworked. I was number 12 and had to look after those b*stards as well. Lovely!