BA and Project Columbus
Join Date: May 2004
Location: london
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ten West,
I hope none of my posts offended you and there was none intended at anyone.
At times like this human nature takes over and regardless of airline or area in which you work,you stand and defend your corner.
I have noticed over recent times the aggressive view taken against my area,BA cabin crew and my union BASSA who stand up against an employer who will never be happy with any of it's workforce (pilots included),unless we work for free!!.
Excuse after excuse to look for cutbacks,savings and errosion of all BA employees T&C's.
I have read on here with interest past disputes between my pilot colleagues,examples being 'OpenLies'!!(what a joke thats turned out to be),BALPA walked all over.Pensions was another,enduring 15 minute lectures by flight crew on crew transport saying how we all had to stick together to fight BA,again BALPA floundered.
Over the years there have been other flight crew verus BA and I have always shown my support on forums and downroute to my flight crew colleauges.
I have just become fed up of a certain few taking,what seems a certain delight,any time there is a chance we BA cabin crew are going to take a thump from BA management.
My prediction for Friday the 6th (think they should have kept this announcment to Feb 13th,a Friday!!
).I can only predict a IFS department none of us could ever have seen coming!!.
I can see the managers main crew/purser managers as mentioned in previous posts taking a big hit.CSD's manage purser's,purser's manage main crew on board so why have more managers?.
My grade of CSD will be hit,possible taking on office work,a fixed working role on the aircraft(I work all cabins now anyway so no probs with that,a shock for the lazy ones!!) and the end of CSD on Eurofleet.
One more purser off longhaul aircraft and a new fleet for mixed flying.
For those applying for BA may I wish you luck in your interviews.This comes with a word of caution.The leaked document FOC(Fighting Our Costs),re named ******* OUR CREW!!,is looking to offer an annual salary which equates to the UK national minimum wage,with an hourly rate whilst on duty of less than £2.30p !!.(£55.00) for a 24 hour duty)!!.Think about living in the South East on that money!
.
A few notes of interest here when BA shouts poverty:-
We hedged our fuel with Lehman Bros.They went bust the hedging was cancelled and we re-hedged at a far lower price saving millions.
We at BA have a cash reserve of approximately £1.8 billion.
Over the last ten years we have made enough profit year on year that if we lost £150 for the next 3 years we would still be in profit!!.This takes into account the new B777's.
Of course,there is always the £550 millon lost in fines for gross managemet misconduct at the highest levels of BA.(BA Cabin Crew the big elephant in the room,really)!!,think again who really is the weight around our once great companies neck?.
Yes we have to make savings and there are many at the top have to lead by example and not the big stick.
8 days and counting!!
WTDWL.
I hope none of my posts offended you and there was none intended at anyone.
At times like this human nature takes over and regardless of airline or area in which you work,you stand and defend your corner.
I have noticed over recent times the aggressive view taken against my area,BA cabin crew and my union BASSA who stand up against an employer who will never be happy with any of it's workforce (pilots included),unless we work for free!!.
Excuse after excuse to look for cutbacks,savings and errosion of all BA employees T&C's.
I have read on here with interest past disputes between my pilot colleagues,examples being 'OpenLies'!!(what a joke thats turned out to be),BALPA walked all over.Pensions was another,enduring 15 minute lectures by flight crew on crew transport saying how we all had to stick together to fight BA,again BALPA floundered.
Over the years there have been other flight crew verus BA and I have always shown my support on forums and downroute to my flight crew colleauges.
I have just become fed up of a certain few taking,what seems a certain delight,any time there is a chance we BA cabin crew are going to take a thump from BA management.
My prediction for Friday the 6th (think they should have kept this announcment to Feb 13th,a Friday!!
).I can only predict a IFS department none of us could ever have seen coming!!.I can see the managers main crew/purser managers as mentioned in previous posts taking a big hit.CSD's manage purser's,purser's manage main crew on board so why have more managers?.
My grade of CSD will be hit,possible taking on office work,a fixed working role on the aircraft(I work all cabins now anyway so no probs with that,a shock for the lazy ones!!) and the end of CSD on Eurofleet.
One more purser off longhaul aircraft and a new fleet for mixed flying.
For those applying for BA may I wish you luck in your interviews.This comes with a word of caution.The leaked document FOC(Fighting Our Costs),re named ******* OUR CREW!!,is looking to offer an annual salary which equates to the UK national minimum wage,with an hourly rate whilst on duty of less than £2.30p !!.(£55.00) for a 24 hour duty)!!.Think about living in the South East on that money!
. A few notes of interest here when BA shouts poverty:-
We hedged our fuel with Lehman Bros.They went bust the hedging was cancelled and we re-hedged at a far lower price saving millions.
We at BA have a cash reserve of approximately £1.8 billion.
Over the last ten years we have made enough profit year on year that if we lost £150 for the next 3 years we would still be in profit!!.This takes into account the new B777's.
Of course,there is always the £550 millon lost in fines for gross managemet misconduct at the highest levels of BA.(BA Cabin Crew the big elephant in the room,really)!!,think again who really is the weight around our once great companies neck?.
Yes we have to make savings and there are many at the top have to lead by example and not the big stick.
8 days and counting!!
WTDWL.
Last edited by whattimedoweland; 30th Jan 2009 at 09:49.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: London
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My prediction for Friday the 6th (think they should have kept this announcment to Feb 13th,a Friday!!).I can only predict a IFS department none of us could ever have seen coming!!.
We at BA have a cash reserve of approximately £1.8 billion.
Over the last ten years we have made enough profit year on year that if we lost £150 for the next 3 years we would still be in profit!!.This takes into account the new B777's.
Over the last ten years we have made enough profit year on year that if we lost £150 for the next 3 years we would still be in profit!!.This takes into account the new B777's.
Yes BA does have large cash reserves but once you get below a billion it gets a bit tougher and around 500m then you will start to get problems with obtaining credit etc so then suppliers will start demanding cash quicker and it starts to become a downward spiral.
BA, or any other company cannot sustain losses of approx £300 million a year which is what it could potentailly be next year if it does nothing, and that is all departments, not just the one in question here.
Last edited by 747-436; 29th Jan 2009 at 22:04.
Junior trash
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Much hilarity caused by this mornings text from BASSA?? (was it a spoof? Lots of crew got it)
Support BASSA by not handing out hot towels in WT Plus
Last edited by Hotel Mode; 30th Jan 2009 at 08:44.
Junior trash
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PS WTDWL, I thought it was fairly clear my post was about Cabin Crew costs, which is totally different from cabin crew renumeration. You must admit IFS (or whatever they are now) are overmanned from a management point of view. Hence mentioning the number of managers who now seem to be turning up at briefings who never previously bothered. Add that to the flexibility issues on long haul, productivity on short haul and you probably have several tweaks to make millions of savings without going near pay.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: london
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hotel Mode,
Even I have to agree with you on that one about the hot towels!!.
I think the bigger joke is that is the 'enhancement' to WT+ !!.Other airlines offering,full bottles of wine,dedicated crew,dedicated phone lines,leather seats and ipod chargers etc!!.
As you have also mentioned,purser managers in nearly every briefing
.What do they hope to achieve for the 30 second to 1 minute imput of the purser?!.The truth is absolutely nothing.It is I who will be supervising them one the two 11 hour+ flights and I am in a better position to assess their performance.
The new name for IFS is...............IFCE(In Flight Customer Experience)!!
.
Safe flying.
WTDWL.
Even I have to agree with you on that one about the hot towels!!
.I think the bigger joke is that is the 'enhancement' to WT+ !!.Other airlines offering,full bottles of wine,dedicated crew,dedicated phone lines,leather seats and ipod chargers etc!!.
As you have also mentioned,purser managers in nearly every briefing
.What do they hope to achieve for the 30 second to 1 minute imput of the purser?!.The truth is absolutely nothing.It is I who will be supervising them one the two 11 hour+ flights and I am in a better position to assess their performance.The new name for IFS is...............IFCE(In Flight Customer Experience)!!
.Safe flying.
WTDWL.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oooh this is going to be fun!
At least BALPA ended up taking BA to the High Court and securing a stronger commitment to a UK scope clause, which is in my view somewhat better than BASSA achieved when the TGWU capitulated with nothing but self funded pay rises to show for it. If BASSA had paid more attention to scope you'd not be facing the Single Fleet/Project Columbus threat now.
Que? BALPA kept the retirement age increase for all flying staff to 5 years rather than the 10 years the ground staff wanted, and secured a ring fenced sum of around £20M solely for all flying staff. This, incidentally, was finalised at the meeting BASSA didn't feel like attending because they were in a huff with BA (see above). BASSA then tried to claim a stitch up had been done and the flight crew had stolen all the cabin crew pension money. Of course we've yet to see any proof of this from BASSA. In a similar vein I note with interest BASSAs claim to have secured ZL fares for staff travel all on it's own, specifically stating BALPA had no input into this. This was certainly news to the BALPA rep who has the minutes of meetings dating back to 2005 since when he's stated ZM fares were a high risk for us and we could not use the favourable dollar exchange rate to mitigate the risk. Isn't it strange how BASSA seems to think this was all achieved in a single meeting of the BATUC through their own efforts without anybody else contributing?
Perhaps it's more the case that people like to see your Scargillite union taking a thumping as punishment for their petty mindedness?
Your union sould have seen it coming a long time ago. Thats what you pay them for, not for organising hot towel strikes.
Why have 4 managers for 11 main crew on a jumbo? Especially as we make such a big deal of our crews greater experience.
Precisely. Why are we paying megabucks for some CSDs to be allowed to sit on their backsides in their office. No free rides anymore.
Perhaps I saw a different document which said they were willing to pay a premium to get better crew. You can't pay a premium if it's minimum wage. You can live in the South East of England on that money and many do, you just can't live a champane lifestyle in London or Richmond or Windsor.
We had no significant hedging with Lehmans (unlike Lufthansa) and a sizeable proportion of next years fuel is hedged at an average oil cost of $95 per barrel. We are losing money on fuel hedging now, plus the loss of revenue from Lehmans flying with us isn't helping.
£1.4 billion actually and once it heads south of £1 billion bad things start to happen.
If only it were that simple. Would the investors stand for those sorts of losses? What would our share price fall to? Who would take over us when the company is so cheap to buy?
Yep, unacceptable but whats done is done and we can't get that money back. We have to live in the present, not the past.
Sadly it would appear the only thing BASSA understand is a good drubbing.
I have read on here with interest past disputes between my pilot colleagues,examples being 'OpenLies'!!(what a joke thats turned out to be),BALPA walked all over.
Pensions was another,enduring 15 minute lectures by flight crew on crew transport saying how we all had to stick together to fight BA,again BALPA floundered.
I have just become fed up of a certain few taking,what seems a certain delight,any time there is a chance we BA cabin crew are going to take a thump from BA management.
My prediction for Friday the 6th (think they should have kept this announcment to Feb 13th,a Friday!!).I can only predict a IFS department none of us could ever have seen coming!!.
posts taking a big hit.CSD's manage purser's,purser's manage main crew on board so why have more managers?.
My grade of CSD will be hit,possible taking on office work,a fixed working role on the aircraft(I work all cabins now anyway so no probs with that,a shock for the lazy ones!!) and the end of CSD on Eurofleet.
The leaked document FOC(Fighting Our Costs),re named ******* OUR CREW!!,is looking to offer an annual salary which equates to the UK national minimum wage,with an hourly rate whilst on duty of less than £2.30p !!.(£55.00) for a 24 hour duty)!!.Think about living in the South East on that money!.
We hedged our fuel with Lehman Bros.They went bust the hedging was cancelled and we re-hedged at a far lower price saving millions.
We at BA have a cash reserve of approximately £1.8 billion.
Over the last ten years we have made enough profit year on year that if we lost £150 for the next 3 years we would still be in profit!!.This takes into account the new B777's.
Of course,there is always the £550 millon lost in fines for gross managemet misconduct at the highest levels of BA
Yes we have to make savings and there are many at the top have to lead by example and not the big stick.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: london
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So Carnage Matey,
I take it you don't care for BASSA too much!!.
Love them or hate them,from our point of view they have stood up to BA on behalf of it's members.I am not blind and yes there are a few things they have done over the years that in my mine were foolish.
The reason BASSA have not ended up in the high court,is that our last 3 industrial problems have been legally water tight.
No BA are not will to pay a premium for the new mixed flying fleet.As stated in my previous post,minimum wage plus approximately £2.30 (or less if they can) per duty hour whilst on duty.A huge £55.00 per 24 hours!!.
Can anyone afford to live in the London area.
I do point out that this leaked document is only a 'draft',NOTHING FINAL.
Safe flying Carnage.
WTDWL.
I take it you don't care for BASSA too much!!.
Love them or hate them,from our point of view they have stood up to BA on behalf of it's members.I am not blind and yes there are a few things they have done over the years that in my mine were foolish.
The reason BASSA have not ended up in the high court,is that our last 3 industrial problems have been legally water tight.
No BA are not will to pay a premium for the new mixed flying fleet.As stated in my previous post,minimum wage plus approximately £2.30 (or less if they can) per duty hour whilst on duty.A huge £55.00 per 24 hours!!.
Can anyone afford to live in the London area.
I do point out that this leaked document is only a 'draft',NOTHING FINAL.
Safe flying Carnage.
WTDWL.
Junior trash
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do point out that this leaked document is only a 'draft',NOTHING FINAL.
PS on the legal basis, If BASSA are encouraging crew not to do the towel service then it could be considered illegal industrial action. Please bear that in mind, BA may be after some easy prey.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. If BA go ahead with this and it's as dire as you say - minimum wage plus £2.30 an hour, there will either be no takers and BASSA will be vindicated. Or, BA will be swamped with people willing and capable of doing the job for the remuneration offered.
One thing is for sure BA will continue to look for cost saving and productivity improvements wherever they can. Saying no to everything is nonsense - BASSA's latest about hot towels is pretty stupid in the current economic climate. All the unions at BA, whether they be BASSA,BALPA or any others need to look to the big picture. Encouraging potentially illegal industrial action over hot towels is fiddling while Rome burns.
The IMF stated that Britain is going to suffer more in this global downturn than most other countries due to it's economic reliance on the financial sector. Look for a moment at BA's reliance on the financial sector - especially across the North Atlantic where they generate most of their profits.
No-one wants to see T+C's cut but the fact remains that if BA can see a way to reduce costs that are significantly higher than those of other airlines in the UK they will do so. Forget benchmarking against foreign competitors most of BAs cabin crew dwell in the UK so the relevant costs are UK costs.
BASSA have to be smarter and more savvy than they have been over the last few years - the good times are over.
Willie Walsh sold the paintings off the walls at Aer Lingus, then at BA took the pilots to the High Court over their last dispute and then went after them for costs. Do you think for a moment he will give a second thought to reducing the costs of any group of staff/ especially those that are being petulant and unreasonable.
One thing is for sure BA will continue to look for cost saving and productivity improvements wherever they can. Saying no to everything is nonsense - BASSA's latest about hot towels is pretty stupid in the current economic climate. All the unions at BA, whether they be BASSA,BALPA or any others need to look to the big picture. Encouraging potentially illegal industrial action over hot towels is fiddling while Rome burns.
The IMF stated that Britain is going to suffer more in this global downturn than most other countries due to it's economic reliance on the financial sector. Look for a moment at BA's reliance on the financial sector - especially across the North Atlantic where they generate most of their profits.
No-one wants to see T+C's cut but the fact remains that if BA can see a way to reduce costs that are significantly higher than those of other airlines in the UK they will do so. Forget benchmarking against foreign competitors most of BAs cabin crew dwell in the UK so the relevant costs are UK costs.
BASSA have to be smarter and more savvy than they have been over the last few years - the good times are over.
Willie Walsh sold the paintings off the walls at Aer Lingus, then at BA took the pilots to the High Court over their last dispute and then went after them for costs. Do you think for a moment he will give a second thought to reducing the costs of any group of staff/ especially those that are being petulant and unreasonable.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Forget benchmarking against foreign competitors most of BAs cabin crew dwell in the UK so the relevant costs are UK costs.
Foreign cabin crew is my best guess; starting from the New York EC base.
No shortage of keen, willing, young professionals in India to staff the flights there either - clearly very few of those exist now, but there were once a few more.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Juan Tugoh
Willie Walsh sold the paintings off the walls at Aer Lingus, then at BA took the pilots to the High Court over their last dispute and then went after them for costs.
WTDWL - the reason BASSA haven't ended up in the High Court is they've never taken BA to the High Court. Caving in is their main tactic. It's all well and good having a legally watertight ballot but if you don't have the support behind you and the votes are garnered from people who never really thought they'd have to strike it's not worth much.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: planet earth
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carnage Matey!, yes I am wright, you have a fantastic job. Anyone that can spend most of his life on the internet has a very, very good job.
About time BA clamped down on C.C pay and bring you down to the real world with a bump.
I have a lot of stock in BA and seeing it wasted on C.C moans and groans about how poorly treated and paid you lot are makes me cringe with anger.
Get off the internet and do some work, or see how other people live.
As soon as my stock reaches £3.28 I am going to retire. Thats only if W.W gets his act together and sorts out all the moaner and groaners, the day for my retirement at 49 will be absolute. Stop moaning and get on with it C.M!
About time BA clamped down on C.C pay and bring you down to the real world with a bump.
I have a lot of stock in BA and seeing it wasted on C.C moans and groans about how poorly treated and paid you lot are makes me cringe with anger.
Get off the internet and do some work, or see how other people live.As soon as my stock reaches £3.28 I am going to retire. Thats only if W.W gets his act together and sorts out all the moaner and groaners, the day for my retirement at 49 will be absolute. Stop moaning and get on with it C.M!
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In the Air
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You do know investing in stock is a gamble - the CC costs are hardly the ones which have made a dent in your portfolio recently.
I too am sick of moaning Shareholders from various places eating up my tax money when the company they invest in goes bust and they cry foul.
Wake up - not everyone has the luxury of waiting for their stock to increase in value to retire - some people have to continue working for it and saving for their later lives.
There is work to be done on the agreements no doubt but how about being less venomous?
I too am sick of moaning Shareholders from various places eating up my tax money when the company they invest in goes bust and they cry foul.
Wake up - not everyone has the luxury of waiting for their stock to increase in value to retire - some people have to continue working for it and saving for their later lives.
There is work to be done on the agreements no doubt but how about being less venomous?
Junior trash
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What on earth are BASSA doing? They appear to be in full scale suicide mode now. The way they are responding to the current disruption will put them right at the top of Willies in tray. There are pax stranded all over the place because BASSA told crew not to operate.
