BA - Common Issues
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BA - Common Issues
The moderators will forgive me for opening a new thread, but I cannot stand the fact that BA love us to feel like two (or more) companies! While I agree that someone starting with LGW SF needs more LGW specific info- and the same for LHR- there are some issues that are common to all of us. Whether they like it or not we are ONE company despite we all know the difference in contracts that "divide" us at present.
One issue which affects anybody from any department and indeed base is EG300.
This is the latest email I have received which I can openly say made me so angry and so upset I have even thought of leaving. Now it might only be the hormones doing the talking (god knows how hard I worked to get to where I am now) but I am so angry that I hope something major happens now or it will spoil my career. THEY simply CANNOT DO IT!!!How can they change the agreement so easily without consulting us first???By calling it "refinements"???
REFINEMENTS TO WORLDWIDE ABSENCE REVIEW INTERVIEWS (ARIs) – STAGES 1 & 2
"As you are all aware, absence is currently at unprecedented levels – especially on Worldwide. Additionally, keeping on top of Absence Review Interviews (ARIs) has been difficult. Consequently, we have reviewed the application of the EG300 process in IFS with a view to making it easier and quicker for all concerned. As a result, from 1 October we are refining the way we schedule ARIs.
Why change things?
Previously, if you reached an attendance trigger you would be sent a letter from the Attendance Team scheduling an ARI for a date in the future, sometimes as much as six months ahead. In addition, and on more occasions than we would all like, ARIs have had to be rescheduled or cancelled resulting in an increasing backlog. The refined method aims to deal with this issue.
What is an ARI?
It is a meeting conducted by a member of the Inflight Service Attendance Team.
During this meeting your level of absence will be discussed and we will offer you any additional support or a referral to BAHS if appropriate. We may agree an improvement plan with some attendance targets to meet over the coming months.
As an ARI is slightly more formal than a return to work discussion, you can bring a colleague with you if you wish. This is not essential however and the meeting can, and often does, take place with just you and a member of the attendance team.
How is an ARI triggered?
If you have had two or more occasions of absence in a rolling three month period or you have been absent for more than 4.5% of available working hours in a rolling 12 month period or you have been absent for more than 21 consecutive days, you will trigger an ARI.
What's changing?
If you trigger an ARI after 1 October your ARI will need to have been completed before you are able to fly again. If you can't attend the first, or a rescheduled ARI, within 5 days your ARI may be held in your absence.
After you have called the OST to confirm that you are now fit to fly, the Attendance Team will identify if you have reached a trigger in the EG300 process and call you with an interview time for the next day, if applicable.
If you do not attend this ARI another one will be booked for you within the 12-hour availability window. If you miss this second appointment, the ARI will be held in your absence. Once your ARI has taken place, you will be returned to 12h/24h until your flexi trip.
How will I find out when my ARI is?
A member of the Attendance Team will call you to let you know the time and place of your ARI.
What if I can't attend the first ARI appointment?
A second appointment will be made for you within the 12 hour availability window. If this too is missed, your ARI will be held without you.
Will I be disadvantaged if I can't get a colleague to join me?
No. The discussion is between you and a member of the Attendance Team and the outcome of the ARI will be based on that discussion
How will this help us tackle absence when I'm stopped from flying once fit?
Being able to hold the ARI as soon as possible after you have gone fit will help us identify any support you require to manage your absence more quickly."
I apologise for venting this out, people who know me well know how much I love(d) this company, but being a victim of crappy EG300 sub-laws myself I am absolutely beside myself
One issue which affects anybody from any department and indeed base is EG300.
This is the latest email I have received which I can openly say made me so angry and so upset I have even thought of leaving. Now it might only be the hormones doing the talking (god knows how hard I worked to get to where I am now) but I am so angry that I hope something major happens now or it will spoil my career. THEY simply CANNOT DO IT!!!How can they change the agreement so easily without consulting us first???By calling it "refinements"???
REFINEMENTS TO WORLDWIDE ABSENCE REVIEW INTERVIEWS (ARIs) – STAGES 1 & 2
"As you are all aware, absence is currently at unprecedented levels – especially on Worldwide. Additionally, keeping on top of Absence Review Interviews (ARIs) has been difficult. Consequently, we have reviewed the application of the EG300 process in IFS with a view to making it easier and quicker for all concerned. As a result, from 1 October we are refining the way we schedule ARIs.
Why change things?
Previously, if you reached an attendance trigger you would be sent a letter from the Attendance Team scheduling an ARI for a date in the future, sometimes as much as six months ahead. In addition, and on more occasions than we would all like, ARIs have had to be rescheduled or cancelled resulting in an increasing backlog. The refined method aims to deal with this issue.
What is an ARI?
It is a meeting conducted by a member of the Inflight Service Attendance Team.
During this meeting your level of absence will be discussed and we will offer you any additional support or a referral to BAHS if appropriate. We may agree an improvement plan with some attendance targets to meet over the coming months.
As an ARI is slightly more formal than a return to work discussion, you can bring a colleague with you if you wish. This is not essential however and the meeting can, and often does, take place with just you and a member of the attendance team.
How is an ARI triggered?
If you have had two or more occasions of absence in a rolling three month period or you have been absent for more than 4.5% of available working hours in a rolling 12 month period or you have been absent for more than 21 consecutive days, you will trigger an ARI.
What's changing?
If you trigger an ARI after 1 October your ARI will need to have been completed before you are able to fly again. If you can't attend the first, or a rescheduled ARI, within 5 days your ARI may be held in your absence.
After you have called the OST to confirm that you are now fit to fly, the Attendance Team will identify if you have reached a trigger in the EG300 process and call you with an interview time for the next day, if applicable.
If you do not attend this ARI another one will be booked for you within the 12-hour availability window. If you miss this second appointment, the ARI will be held in your absence. Once your ARI has taken place, you will be returned to 12h/24h until your flexi trip.
How will I find out when my ARI is?
A member of the Attendance Team will call you to let you know the time and place of your ARI.
What if I can't attend the first ARI appointment?
A second appointment will be made for you within the 12 hour availability window. If this too is missed, your ARI will be held without you.
Will I be disadvantaged if I can't get a colleague to join me?
No. The discussion is between you and a member of the Attendance Team and the outcome of the ARI will be based on that discussion
How will this help us tackle absence when I'm stopped from flying once fit?
Being able to hold the ARI as soon as possible after you have gone fit will help us identify any support you require to manage your absence more quickly."
I apologise for venting this out, people who know me well know how much I love(d) this company, but being a victim of crappy EG300 sub-laws myself I am absolutely beside myself
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FBW,
You go girl. I do think the joint thread is a great idea. I would love to see more cooperation between the two units.
However can most LHR crew and more so the unions, honestly say hand on heart that they give a flying fcuk what is going on at LGW. The evidence I've seen over the years, unfortunately says no.
YD
You go girl. I do think the joint thread is a great idea. I would love to see more cooperation between the two units.
However can most LHR crew and more so the unions, honestly say hand on heart that they give a flying fcuk what is going on at LGW. The evidence I've seen over the years, unfortunately says no.
YD
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That's exactly what I said in the LHR post flybywire! I totally agree with your anger and frustration!
I don't understand how the unions can help us if BA can change things like this at a drop of a hat, without consulting us and getting permission from the unions. I don't understand the point of the union? Ok, so a strike is one option we've got, but since BA seem to be allowed to change everything without consulting the unions, then are we gonna have to strike over everything to get what we want? It's not feasible and we wouldn't have a job anymore if it came down to that, so what I'm trying to say here and over in the LHR post is how can the unions really help us when BA just go ahead and do whatever they like anyway!?!?!?! I'm very worried, I must say.
Another thing...What actually happens in these ARI's??? I've not had the pleasure of having one!What happens if it is conducted in your absense? Is that a bad thing? Surely the same outcome will be achieved whether you're there or not, that being you're put into phase one of the 'process' (Please do excuse my ignorance on these subjects, I've not really taken much notice until now)
I don't understand how the unions can help us if BA can change things like this at a drop of a hat, without consulting us and getting permission from the unions. I don't understand the point of the union? Ok, so a strike is one option we've got, but since BA seem to be allowed to change everything without consulting the unions, then are we gonna have to strike over everything to get what we want? It's not feasible and we wouldn't have a job anymore if it came down to that, so what I'm trying to say here and over in the LHR post is how can the unions really help us when BA just go ahead and do whatever they like anyway!?!?!?! I'm very worried, I must say.
Another thing...What actually happens in these ARI's??? I've not had the pleasure of having one!What happens if it is conducted in your absense? Is that a bad thing? Surely the same outcome will be achieved whether you're there or not, that being you're put into phase one of the 'process' (Please do excuse my ignorance on these subjects, I've not really taken much notice until now)
Last edited by Flying_Sarah747; 4th Oct 2006 at 12:28.
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So, if you're a commuter from Europe or long distance UK, you have to travel for an interview the day after reporting fit, return home again and wait for a trip............Nice one BA!!
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Unfortuantely Tess, BA maintain that commutting is your choice. They stipulate that you must live within 2 hours of base and that would be their reply if you ever mentioned that. Again, sad but true.
With regards to being treated differently, that is so true. But more by the management than crew. At LGW, we no longer have a proper canteen and area for airport stand by crew, all display stands for the new club world, etc are up at LHR only, staff shop has gone and as for the quiet room, I'd be better off sleeping in the car park! When I started 3 years ago, we occupied all 4 floors of JB House, now we have the 4th floor and OPS on the 3rd, down sizing???
I love my job and flying for the company, just that some areas are so badly led, starts affect morale.
With regards to being treated differently, that is so true. But more by the management than crew. At LGW, we no longer have a proper canteen and area for airport stand by crew, all display stands for the new club world, etc are up at LHR only, staff shop has gone and as for the quiet room, I'd be better off sleeping in the car park! When I started 3 years ago, we occupied all 4 floors of JB House, now we have the 4th floor and OPS on the 3rd, down sizing???
I love my job and flying for the company, just that some areas are so badly led, starts affect morale.
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Flybywire can you and your LHR and LGW collegues realise that there is more to BA then these two bases!!!! Crew at BA CONNECT are just as p ed off about things as you are!! The BA world does revolve around other places other than LGW and LHR why dont we all unite, there are an awful lot of use BACON crews out there if only you would take the blinkers off and look a little further than the edge of the M25!!!!!
ed off about things as you are!! The BA world does revolve around other places other than LGW and LHR why dont we all unite, there are an awful lot of use BACON crews out there if only you would take the blinkers off and look a little further than the edge of the M25!!!!!
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Although ba con are employee by ba it isn't a mainline contract, i'm sorry but it isn't, bmi has baby, ba has connect. There's no point in standing together because we're separate companies.
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Offstand i would never slap you, you might enjoy it!!!! lol!!!! banewboi yawn and yawn again same old story from people who can never see past the M25 you are right in saying that we are sort of run as seperate companies but the bottom line is that BA ultimately pay my wages and yours. we all fly around on aircraft that are in the same colours, and from the customer point of view they dont see the difference!! we are all cabin crew at the end of the day regardless of base or contract maybe its time to take your head out of the sand.
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SFG I think that BASSA/BALPA are hoping that the mere threat of a strike will help things along a little. Whether this tactic will work or not, remains to be seen.
The idea behind firing a 'single bullet' in terms of combining the pensions issue, EG300 and pay in one ballot is because it's pretty much guaranteed that EVERYONE in BA will have ONE of those issues that they feel passionately about.
For example, if BASSA put a ballot up just for EG300, or JUST for pay, these issues only affect a certain proportion of crew so a ballot would unlikely be successful. But if you heap in both of them issues, and add in the pensions issue as well, whether you are a senior CSD with two years to go before retirement or a new starter that started last year, you have something to gain.
I admit, it is a risky proposition. If we lose, we will lose on all three issues. And to be honest, when it's gonna cost BA £500million per year to maintain the current pension if it is not reformed, perhaps a strike at say a cost to BA of £40M per day will be a more attractive option to them!
The idea behind firing a 'single bullet' in terms of combining the pensions issue, EG300 and pay in one ballot is because it's pretty much guaranteed that EVERYONE in BA will have ONE of those issues that they feel passionately about.
For example, if BASSA put a ballot up just for EG300, or JUST for pay, these issues only affect a certain proportion of crew so a ballot would unlikely be successful. But if you heap in both of them issues, and add in the pensions issue as well, whether you are a senior CSD with two years to go before retirement or a new starter that started last year, you have something to gain.
I admit, it is a risky proposition. If we lose, we will lose on all three issues. And to be honest, when it's gonna cost BA £500million per year to maintain the current pension if it is not reformed, perhaps a strike at say a cost to BA of £40M per day will be a more attractive option to them!
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I might be mistaken but LGW is just over 8 miles away from the M25 (but I guess that depends on where your looking from and what your looking at
So I guess BA and its unions should really get involved in any and all future talks regarding T&C's for any and all other airlines, seeing as they are sort of separate companies?
Marlowe, I'm sure you have your issues with your company but this thread is supposed to promote communication between LHR and LGW so that we can stand united regarding alot of issues that are affecting US directly. If you read the first post on this thread that might have become clear to you. Apologies if this comes across as being sharp but seriously how is EG300 and the changes to ARI going to affect you? So you are sort of linked to BA, FANTASTIC!!!! shout it from the roof tops if you wish but that still isn't going to change the fact that this thread isn't:
'Let's discuss BACON, BA LHR and BA LGW'
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Please feel free to tell me to get lost, or words to that effect, however, can these 'meetings' be held over the telephone?
Seems like a waste of everybody's time to rearrange, cancel, reschedule, travel, for something that 2 civilised people should be able to do over the phone.
Seems like a waste of everybody's time to rearrange, cancel, reschedule, travel, for something that 2 civilised people should be able to do over the phone.
Last edited by 4potflyer; 4th Oct 2006 at 19:24. Reason: Cannot type proper
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That would be great in an ideal world 4pot.
However, in the original agreement between BA & unions, union presence/representation at any meeting/interrogation is a right of the employee.
If the interview was conducted over the phone this couldn't happen. The attendance unit could add/alter/omit things said or not said over the phone in their notes (everything you say in an ARI is written down).
In the interview the union aren't actually allowed to express an opinion or fight your corner. They are there to a) witness what is said and by whom. b) Ensure the interview follows the laid down procedure. And, 3) they can ask for an adjournement to the meeting if they feel the crew member is talking themselves into a P45!
However, in the original agreement between BA & unions, union presence/representation at any meeting/interrogation is a right of the employee.
If the interview was conducted over the phone this couldn't happen. The attendance unit could add/alter/omit things said or not said over the phone in their notes (everything you say in an ARI is written down).
In the interview the union aren't actually allowed to express an opinion or fight your corner. They are there to a) witness what is said and by whom. b) Ensure the interview follows the laid down procedure. And, 3) they can ask for an adjournement to the meeting if they feel the crew member is talking themselves into a P45!
Last edited by keeperboy; 4th Oct 2006 at 20:03. Reason: Add info
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I see thanks for the details.
I guess a 3 way call would work, however it would be harder for the union rep to give 'the stare' or a swift 'kick under the table' if such was needed.
I guess a 3 way call would work, however it would be harder for the union rep to give 'the stare' or a swift 'kick under the table' if such was needed.
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BAConnect are a fully owned subsidiary, and I do not want to sound rude or anything (believe me, *those* explicit and implicit discriminations that unfortunately make us at LGW very sad are far from being part of my character) and when I referred to LHR and LGW I also specifically meant new recruits needing proper advice - I am more than sure that recruiting and training at BAConnect, including contractual T&C are somewhat different from LHR and indeed LGW.
But I opened" this thread to discuss common issues to all BA employees, whether belonging to mainline, subsidiaries, or even franchisees I do not really care. The more we are the merrier.
At the end of the day as an example the club service in SH mainline is the same in GB etc and we might have the same issues we want to discuss!
So please do not react like that - I only know too well how it feels to feel the way you probably felt
(now make a smile for me, pleeeeeease!!!)FBW
PS:Sarah....I have had an ARI and took my better half in with me who wrote down, word by word, all what the lady who wanted to offer me "support" said.....it's all crap I can assure you. She agreed with me (I would say she agreed with herself) an "improvement plan" which basically was "You cannot be sick anymore for the next 12 months. If you are, then you'll be in the
" Mr FBW was beside himself and has been actively trying to shake things since then (with little success unfortunately!)Considering that I am one of those who's never been late, always did the company favours when practically and safely possible, save their a*se in many situations including during very critical periods like 7/7 bombings etc etc, I couldn't stand the fact that they made me feel like a really bad employee for catching bugs from passengers and crew scared of EG300 alike. Not considering having to stand at the back of the 737 with doors open during refuelling "enjoying" the lovely british weather, turnaround after turnaround!! (by the way, health&safety act-1974 I think but not sure-will work for us too from now on, but only while in the UK...we'll see who is going to be in the
...)So I asked Jackie the "supporter" if she wanted to review my whole attendance history since it is an Attendance Review Interview and asked her to get my file and start reading it, but she pretended not to listen. Let's just say I sent letters to my PM, her manager and Suzanne Stass....surprise surprise still waiting for a reply
but at least it's all black on white.That day, with all my heart I said to Mr FBW: "I cannot take this anymore, either you get me preggers soon, or I will leave BA!"
Last edited by flybywire; 5th Oct 2006 at 18:30.
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HA!!!
I have just noticed that they have changed the wording Attendance into Absence........so it's now an Absence Review Interview......
PATHETIC PATHETIC PATHETIC..........
Day after day they are showing me that they value us less and less and they also think that we are only a bunch of trolly dollies after all....most of us have one if not more degrees and we can work out their stupid mind games.....
I promise, if not that I should keep my stress levels down at present I would keep fighting like I was doing before.
They are so good at selling smoke, we say in Italy...
Now It's about time they stopped agreeing plans and changes with themselves. I hope the Unions will act as opposed to bend over for a change.
Ipsa Dixit
FBW
I have just noticed that they have changed the wording Attendance into Absence........so it's now an Absence Review Interview......
PATHETIC PATHETIC PATHETIC..........
Day after day they are showing me that they value us less and less and they also think that we are only a bunch of trolly dollies after all....most of us have one if not more degrees and we can work out their stupid mind games.....
I promise, if not that I should keep my stress levels down at present I would keep fighting like I was doing before.
They are so good at selling smoke, we say in Italy...
Now It's about time they stopped agreeing plans and changes with themselves. I hope the Unions will act as opposed to bend over for a change.
Ipsa Dixit
FBW
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Dunno what its like down at 'University Challenge' Gatwick but that certainly isn't the case at LHR. If it were then they'd have worked out that you can't keep taking far more days off sick than other UK cabin crew without expecting the management to do something about it.
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Dunno what its like down at 'University Challenge' Gatwick but that certainly isn't the case at LHR. If it were then they'd have worked out that you can't keep taking far more days off sick than other UK cabin crew without expecting the management to do something about it.
I am not talking about people throwing a sickie every now and then (or more often) because they do not want to fly to that destination or because they have a long duty or just because they had too much to drink.
I am talking about how long it actually takes to heal from some bug that affects your ears for example.
This EG300 policy is affecting not only crew at university gatwick, but also their majesty the flight crew. So many of them are in the process, most of them on stage 1, many on stage 2 and I think it's only one on stage 3.
You do not need a Doctorate to realise that this policy is not to "support crew who are genuinely sick" but to save BA a few pounds, even at the cost of harassing the crew member.
On my interview that ugly lady kept bringing up an episode that had happened a year before and had been discounted, and although I kept asking her to stop reminding me of it as it hurt me, she kept going on, making mr FBW really angry and making a fool fo herself as well. What had happened in the past had to be left in the past, we had already dicussed that and it was discounted. Full stop.
By the way, if you call in sick because you've had vomiting/diarrohea BA will discount the first 48 hours as FCO vol 2a says that for health and safety reasons you cannot fly after dealing with this stuff. Great news for people who have a bit too much to drink on saturday night then!
And the same thing should apply when pax hand you a bag full of sick or a dirty nappy then........
They want to play hard....we'll play their same game, exploiting those same rules that they have stupidly made for themselves.